From my understanding, Blizzard did not include an AH in Shattrath for a reason. It's because they didn't want the "old world" cities to become "ghost towns" so to speak.

Shattrath also possesses a bank; alchemy lab, specialty skill trainers, as well as portals to all the non Outland cities expect [sic] Silver Moon City.

Silvermoon City can be accessed via portal from Shattrath; it is located next to the portal to Exodar in the same area of the Terrace of Light.

As you gain faction with one, you loose [sic] faction with the other and there is no coming back from it.

Not true. One can gain reputation with either faction from Hated to Neutral with the farming quests Voren'thal's Visions and Strained Supplies, both available from NPCs located in the Lower City.

Is this really up to the standard of quality MMORPG.com considers acceptable for featured content?

Originally posted by Dexeunt
....

Is this really up to the standard of quality MMORPG.com considers acceptable for featured content?

"Oh. Look at my amaaaaazing credentials as a player...I've been playing WoW since before the beginning, and have been playing in Burning Crusade for 8 months now, and...What? There's a portal to Silvermoon City? Whaddya mean Silvermoon is one word?"

Joe, honestly.

My 'credentials' suck. I've 'only' been playing for a little over a year, with 2-3 breaks of a month here or there, and even *I* knew that. Even my coworker (who plays on the same server) who's highest level character is a 51 Warrior knew that there were portals to ALL of the cities.

Why would there be a portal to Exodar, and not one to Silvermoon City, even?

So many lingering questions...

For Shame.

I have to concur with the consensus on this thread.  MMORPG.COM so far has been an excellent source of news and features, but this is a relatively useless banter.  If I were in charge of this site, I would seriously consider at least revamping this column so that it has useful (and accurate) information.

No offense Jon, but I agree with the others. This is far from a useful column - all of what you covered is basically available in the guide quest you spoke of.

Edit: except the guide quest actually has accurate info*

My bad guys, I missed the portal for Silvermoon.

Thanks for the comments and keep em coming.

Originally posted by Bluto

My bad guys, I missed the portal for Silvermoon.

 

Thanks for the comments and keep em coming.

 

and if you think the pro-WOW crowd is a tough bunch, wait till the haters pile on.....

Oh well, clean up the mistakes next time (run it past some other WOW players you know before publishing to verify accuracy) and consider coming up with some unusual topics, because I think your target audience is already very well acquainted with basics like the layout of Shattrath city. (heck, I know about it and I stopped playing before TBC was released)

Keep in mind...few readers of this site are WOW noobs.... most have logged a good amount of time...keep the writing at that level......

Heh,

Well I enjoyed the article. I have been playing WoW off and on for over a year but have not bought the expansion. The article was well written and friendly and so what if it is not packed full of adict feeding uber info. Sometimes high level light discussions are a welcome relief from all the heavy jargon and assumption filled guff that gets around out there. If I want in depth technical discussions I would go to a WoW forum rather than to a general MMO site like this one. Sure a few technical articles are good here and there but keep up the lighter ones as well.

I gotta say though I get sick of a game that requires people to research stuff on the web to be able to progress. I mean finding the Alliance first aid dude in the Arathi Highlands was overly difficult. Firstly because no quest lead me to him and it was only by researching outside the game that I knew he existed at all!! It is a roleplaying game after all and this sort of info should be available from in game sources. Maybe an article on this sort of hidden but necessary knowledge for the more noobtastic players out there would be a good idea?

M

 PS: What happened to my post count?!? Why am I a novice member again?!?

You know, I got to say I was not very impressed with this column.  I was hoping for some insight as to what the game should become, or pros and cons as to what the game has become since inception.

I have played on and off since Sept 04 (open beta, that 1 week where I drooled for months until December).  I have played both Horde and Alliance through end game prior to Burning Crusade.  I'm 32, married and a father of 3.  My wife hates this game.

This MMO has the best gameplay I have seen of any game out there.  <---- MY OPINION.  The ease yet difficulty of truly understanding class limits and purpose was done beautifully.  Hence the popularity.  In Dec. of 04 through Jan. of 05, the starting levels were difficult (i.e. - Zulzane quest for orcs and trolls required a small party) and now the starting levels actually are pretty simple and quests have since been removed.  The game developers I assume knew that the population in these areas would be sparce and having elites and party quests would just make rerolling almost impossible, cough hogger!!  But the story line and quests, instances, and crafting were done fairly straight forward.  Making money was hard to do and people actually had to WORK at getting items and equipment and reputation with major cities just to receive that wonderful discount for mounts. How many of you remember this type of GMOTD: HELP JOHNDOE GET EXALTED WITH TB, RUNECLOTH COD 2.5g/STACK!!!!  Onyxia Thurs. 8 pm!

The game prior to Burning Crusade was mostly revovled and designed around progression.  Yup, PROGRESSION.  What do I mean by this?  Let's take a person closing in on level 60.  Around level 54, groups for Black Rock Depths started to be formed and people would start getting some good blue gear to properly start gearing them for Black Rock Spire.  But at the same time that player could get attuned for Molten Core.  But WAIT, Molten Core?  NEED MORE GEAR!! Nah, your still level 58 so you enter Lower Black Rock Spire, OMG what a crazy long instance with wipes and wipes in PUGS, but glorious victory with guild mates!!  Then the quick inception to Upper BRS!!  Around this time you should be level 60 or about to pop 60.  First 10 mans (of course I'm talking after Blizzard decided people were zerging the instances with no quantity of player caps) experience for everyone.  Let's think about how many times people wouldn't get past the egg room and groups would disband in frustration.  So people would run these 3 instances about 20-30 times get some good gear.  It was fun, then into Onyxia/Molten Core, now your into the level 60 grind.  They release Dire Maul, Scholomance, Zul Gurub, the AQ20 and 40, and Black Wing Lair (in no particular order or release) .  So much to do, so many places to get some great gear, and it allowed people to play in a different way.  More choices.  All at level 60.  But wait, there was a requirement for progression.  Most people would pop out or level out at 60 and expect to be running MC that night with all greens they got from the last batch of quests they turned in to hit 60.  Now, if they were on an established server in an established guild, sure, but if you were on a new server in a guild all acheiving 60 around the same time, chances are, most people were running UBRS, DM, Scholo, and BRD to get some decent gear to hit Molten Core so people just didn't waste others time.  So now you get MC down enough people are getting Tier 1 (3 to 5 pieces) the guild goes and hits Ony, ZG and AQ20 here and there.  Get some better gear, and BWL is on the horizon.  WIpes, oh the glorious wipes.  That damn graveyard might as well be in another zone.  But you eventually progress through BWL.  I hated those encounters.  Then Blizzard delays Burning Crusade and releases Naxx.  How many people actually saw this fully?  Not to sure, but this is all at 60!!!!  Think about that.  There was so much requirement for progression.  The only thing that required reputation (prior to AQ and ZG) was MC to get teh water, but that was pretty quick.

Then Burning Crusade comes, but a lot of the game design in released 3 months prior and reputation seems to be the focus.  Burning Crusade no longer required progression but it required reputation.  REPUTATION!!! OMG!!!! KILL about 1,000,000 of x for +10 rep points to get to exalted, but that damn death of x for +10 rep drops to +1 at revered!!!!  Yea yea there is taht chart that shows how much attunements are required to actually see Mount Hyjal.  But really.  How many people are even close to running all that? Or desiring to run all that?  Kara, Gruul's is what i see people running or have seen people running (I let my account finally expire).  Yes there is a small population still running this content, but omg, instances, so many instances in BC.  But you don't just do them while leveling, oh no, come back at level 70 and run them a few 20 or 30 times more to get teh heroic key.  Run it a bunch more times till teh damn item you really are there for drops, move on to the next, then the next.  All revolving around your reputation so you can go onto the next and then the next running them over and over till you get the gear you want.

So in my opinion, the game has gone from a progression style MMO to a reputation grind MMO with PVP thrown into the mix for fun with Arena.   But try going into an Arena now!!! I think Instant Oatmeal takes longer.  People are so well geared.  But I think you've read enough.  BTW, I prefer progession style over reputation grind.

That's the type of stuff I was looking to read from a column on this site. 

Originally posted by Bluto

My bad guys, I missed the portal for Silvermoon.

 

Thanks for the comments and keep em coming.

 

But otherwise great! 

Auction Houses were left out of Shat for a reason. Blizzard did not want the rest of the game to feel vacant to new players coming into the game ,or for other players that may need assistance in the old parts of the game. I think this was a very good move on Blizzards part due to the fact I have experienced 1st hand what other games feel like when you start playing them after they have been released for a long time. Well I agree with the OP in that It looks like I will be playing WoW alot longer due to the fact there is no good Sci-Fi mmo's coming out yet.

Regarding the 'reputation grind', it's  better than it used to be.  There's many different ways to earn rep, now, with daily quests, the long quest lines, running instances, buying certain items from the AH - reputation has become less of a grind and more integrated into the whole game.  Of course it's a grind, but everything in MMOs is a grind unless the rewards are instant, and most of us don't play these games for instant rewards.. we want to have something to strive toward (which keeps us paying a monthly sub ofc).

I even earn reputation with Thrallmar by doing the daily PvP quest in hellfire penninsula which I find to be very interesting because sometimes you get some small 1v1 skirmishes, other times there's dozens of players there, sometimes you win easy, other times you're getting owned and unless you call in backup, no daily quest reward for you!  Good fun.

But back to the article, yeah, it was a bit hit and miss, but it's nice to see a feature about WoW from a site that typically has an anti-WoW sentiment.

Shattrath is perhaps the least interesting place in Outland, imo.  Netherstorm - now that's a unique place with interesting scenery, a few surprises, and brilliant quests.  Do a feature on Netherstorm and you'll find a lot more to talk about.   Shadowmoon Valley is pretty awesome too, as well as Zangarmarsh.. and hell.. almost everywhere in Outland is better than Shattrath.

The author picked the wrong zone to write an article on about :)  Shattrath is just a city - (without an auction house, for shame!), you don't spend time there unless you're AFK.

While it is nice that MMORPG wants to have a column about WoW, they picked the wrong writer to write one. The writing was uninspired, the author didn't even have his facts straight, apparently did no research whatsoever beyond his amazing WoW-playing ability (for example, the reasons for not including an auction house have been stated clearly by Blizzard).

This column was more a waste of time than anything else.

Better luck next time.

I do not want to be picky or flame but I am sure this part of this statement is wrong.

"The no trainers part is a little annoying, but since it only affects a player every two levels, it’s going to be an inconvenience only about five times"

If I remember right, and it has been awhle since I trained lvl 61-70 you train every lvl in that range

Originally posted by lordodd

Heh,

Well I enjoyed the article. I have been playing WoW off and on for over a year but have not bought the expansion. The article was well written and friendly and so what if it is not packed full of adict feeding uber info. Sometimes high level light discussions are a welcome relief from all the heavy jargon and assumption filled guff that gets around out there. If I want in depth technical discussions I would go to a WoW forum rather than to a general MMO site like this one. Sure a few technical articles are good here and there but keep up the lighter ones as well.

I gotta say though I get sick of a game that requires people to research stuff on the web to be able to progress. I mean finding the Alliance first aid dude in the Arathi Highlands was overly difficult. Firstly because no quest lead me to him and it was only by researching outside the game that I knew he existed at all!! It is a roleplaying game after all and this sort of info should be available from in game sources. Maybe an article on this sort of hidden but necessary knowledge for the more noobtastic players out there would be a good idea?

M

 PS: What happened to my post count?!? Why am I a novice member again?!?

you're actually complaining about the easiest game in the world being hard.  wow.  if you're completely antisocial, to the point you refuse to join a guild, OR refuse to ever read/speak in the general chat; then, yeah, i can see how you'd have a hard time discovering the band aid guy.

the article, could've definitely used a grammar check.  and like some others' have stated - a fact checker.

if you're playing in the burning crusade, i hate to say it, but if you're playing in the burning crusade AND you consider yourself a noob - 

the burning crusade is for what? lvl 58+?   that's a little high level to be considered a noob, isn't it?  "oh wait, i meant noob to the expansion".  riiiiiiiiight.

the reason there's a bunch of sites (like thot) for games like wow, isn't because everything is so secret in the game, and so hard to find.  the reason those sites exist is because a lot of the playerbase, of said games, are either too lazy to actually play the game and learn about things in the game; OR they're just too stupid to figure anything out for themselves.

Originally posted by Recant

Regarding the 'reputation grind', it's  better than it used to be.  There's many different ways to earn rep, now, with daily quests, the long quest lines, running instances, buying certain items from the AH - reputation has become less of a grind and more integrated into the whole game.  Of course it's a grind, but everything in MMOs is a grind unless the rewards are instant, and most of us don't play these games for instant rewards.. we want to have something to strive toward (which keeps us paying a monthly sub ofc).

I even earn reputation with Thrallmar by doing the daily PvP quest in hellfire penninsula which I find to be very interesting because sometimes you get some small 1v1 skirmishes, other times there's dozens of players there, sometimes you win easy, other times you're getting owned and unless you call in backup, no daily quest reward for you!  Good fun.

Just curious, what is the sub rate now?  I know it peaked at 9 million, but what is it currently at, anyone?  Not asking the question to make a point, just curious as to how the Burning Crusade was received. 

They'll feed you more lies, trust your gutt. All my friends have either quit or already decided to move to WAR as soon as it hits ground.

If my friends represent even only 10% of the gaming community ( and following the hate-posts, it's more like 60%), there has already been a massive drain and it will only get larger.

And Joe..lousy , lousy, lousy story man. But what am I saying, Shattrath is dull, you can't make an exciting story out of a dull subject oO?

Originally posted by Uraziel

They'll feed you more lies, trust your gutt. All my friends have either quit or already decided to move to WAR as soon as it hits ground.

If my friends represent even only 10% of the gaming community ( and following the hate-posts, it's more like 60%), there has already been a massive drain and it will only get larger.

 

And Joe..lousy , lousy, lousy story man. But what am I saying, Shattrath is dull, you can't make an exciting story out of a dull subject oO?

As a contrast around 5 of my guild mates have quit the game since TBC and 4 are "on a break". we have had about 10-15 new members the last 4 months (about to hit TBT), so by my figures the pop has grown. see how miss-leading the "all my friends quit, so wow is doomed" theroy is.

As to moving to WAR.. I cannot say much, but if they are moving to WAR for a new game experience they will be re-subbing to WoW a week later.

Originally posted by strider1

I do not want to be picky or flame but I am sure this part of this statement is wrong.

"The no trainers part is a little annoying, but since it only affects a player every two levels, it’s going to be an inconvenience only about five times"

 

If I remember right, and it has been awhle since I trained lvl 61-70 you train every lvl in that range

 

I would have been more interested to see a discussion of how WoW intends to remain competitive against the next generation of MMO games. This description essay on Shattrath sounded more like something you'd find in the lore section of the WoW website.

Frankly, nothing I have seen in Wrath of the Lich King is all that interesting. I played halfway through TBC before getting kind of bored with WoW and canceling my subscription. That's not to say WoW is a bad game; far from it, WoW is a most impressive and creative game. I just don't think WoW will be able to hold onto its subscription base if they don't come up with something "more fun" than what I experienced in TBC or what I have seen from the previews of the Northrend expansion.

Originally posted by Uraziel

Cupertino, less fanboiing, more realism.

I quoted facts.. not supposition as others. Please contribute to this thread or leave.

Originally posted by tmr819

I would have been more interested to see a discussion of how WoW intends to remain competitive against the next generation of MMO games.

So let's see why the subs has lessened? 

Someone in this thread stated that 5 people leave and their guild picks up 5 more.  True.  There will always be recycle; people picking up the game for the first time... people actually trying end game.  But the amount of subs playing the game to its fullest potential is small.  Let's say 2 guilds per realm (AVERAGE - some do have more, but some realms have none) running all true end game in the burning crusade.  That's about a guild of needing roughly 40 people who are willing to run a strict raiding schedule for either 2 ten man teams, and 25 man content.  Ok, so now we have roughly 80 people of 3,000 people playing regularly per realm (AVERAGES - some have more some have less).  That is a pretty low percentage of subs actually doing end game to its fullest (i.e. Mount Hyjal, Black Temple content).  Don't you think?

Personally, it was pretty upsetting to see greens dropping with such better stats than some of the gear I had from running end game pre BC.  It didn't matter.  Maybe that is why people left?  The fact they worked so hard at level 60 for months on end to get gear, money, crafting, and to have all that thrown away on their first green drop?  Or was it the dissappointment at how fast 60-70 was acheived?  I guess everyone has a different reason, but I know that Blizzard asks why people are letting their sub expire, what are the responses?  What does Blizzard plan on doing about it?

Just talking to a lot of co workers who have played WoW and still do play WoW, it is our concensus, that those who do not play, would come back if there were a level 60 non BC content realm.  And those who still play, state they will definitely go play on that realm and so would a lot of their guildies.  What does that say?  Ok ok, I'm talking 10 people out of 3.5 million, but so what, we are about 15 people making comments on here.  What does it matter? Maybe cause we still love the game and wish it could get back to its glorious self?

Speaking only for myself, I would have preferred they had simply scaled TBC upward in some sort of even, natural way that didn't, in effect, nullify all of the lower-level instances (Dire Maul, Stratholme, etc.). It seemed really bizarre to me to invest so much development time into instances that now cannot compete with TBC. Even now, Blizzard could retool these older instances in a way to make them fun and worthwhile for players.

The odd thing about Blizzard is the way they seem oblivious to their player base in a lot of small details: druids have been asking for new (less stupid-looking) animal forms for years to no avail; players have been asking for longer, better ignore lists; speedier flight paths; etc. Worse, if you are new to WoW, you will soon note that 90 to 95% of the patch fixes, tweaks, and enhancements have NOTHING to do with the increasingly barren level pre-TBC areas. I was beginning to get the feeling that Blizzard's official stance was "We have a zillion subscribers -- we don't have to do anything." And maybe they don't, but I think they will start losing their player base if they don't start listening to their customers a little better.

I got to the point where I would basically abandon most every "Group" or "Dungeon" quest for the 1-58 level range. Might as well not even bother. It was too much of a pain to find a group; even in TBC I'd bag the "Group" quests. What is going to draw new players into the game to play Wrath of the Lich King when you have to buy the original WoW and TBC and then level your way through both of those before you can get to level 70 and even set foot in Northrend?

Wrath of the Lich King will help keep long-time WoW fans happy, but other players will drift off to other games and Wrath, I would guess, is not going to bring a lot of new players into the game.

Originally posted by tmr819

Speaking only for myself, I would have preferred they had simply scaled TBC upward in some sort of even, natural way that didn't, in effect, nullify all of the lower-level instances (Dire Maul, Stratholme, etc.). It seemed really bizarre to me to invest so much development time into instances that now cannot compete with TBC. Even now, Blizzard could retool these older instances in a way to make them fun and worthwhile for players.

The odd thing about Blizzard is the way they seem oblivious to their player base in a lot of small details: druids have been asking for new (less stupid-looking) animal forms for years to no avail; players have been asking for longer, better ignore lists; speedier flight paths; etc. Worse, if you are new to WoW, you will soon note that 90 to 95% of the patch fixes, tweaks, and enhancements have NOTHING to do with the increasingly barren level pre-TBC areas. I was beginning to get the feeling that Blizzard's official stance was "We have a zillion subscribers -- we don't have to do anything." And maybe they don't, but I think they will start losing their player base if they don't start listening to their customers a little better.

I got to the point where I would basically abandon most every "Group" or "Dungeon" quest for the 1-58 level range. Might as well not even bother. It was too much of a pain to find a group; even in TBC I'd bag the "Group" quests. What is going to draw new players into the game to play Wrath of the Lich King when you have to buy the original WoW and TBC and then level your way through both of those before you can get to level 70 and even set foot in Northrend?

Wrath of the Lich King will help keep long-time WoW fans happy, but other players will drift off to other games and Wrath, I would guess, is not going to bring a lot of new players into the game.

the answers you look for lie in korea... and similar areas.   9 million asian subs can't be wrong!

Originally posted by melwe

 

Originally posted by tmr819

I would have been more interested to see a discussion of how WoW intends to remain competitive against the next generation of MMO games.

 

So let's see why the subs has lessened? 

Someone in this thread stated that 5 people leave and their guild picks up 5 more.  True.  There will always be recycle; people picking up the game for the first time... people actually trying end game.  But the amount of subs playing the game to its fullest potential is small.  Let's say 2 guilds per realm (AVERAGE - some do have more, but some realms have none) running all true end game in the burning crusade.  That's about a guild of needing roughly 40 people who are willing to run a strict raiding schedule for either 2 ten man teams, and 25 man content.  Ok, so now we have roughly 80 people of 3,000 people playing regularly per realm (AVERAGES - some have more some have less).  That is a pretty low percentage of subs actually doing end game to its fullest (i.e. Mount Hyjal, Black Temple content).  Don't you think?

Personally, it was pretty upsetting to see greens dropping with such better stats than some of the gear I had from running end game pre BC.  It didn't matter.  Maybe that is why people left?  The fact they worked so hard at level 60 for months on end to get gear, money, crafting, and to have all that thrown away on their first green drop?  Or was it the dissappointment at how fast 60-70 was acheived?  I guess everyone has a different reason, but I know that Blizzard asks why people are letting their sub expire, what are the responses?  What does Blizzard plan on doing about it?

Just talking to a lot of co workers who have played WoW and still do play WoW, it is our concensus, that those who do not play, would come back if there were a level 60 non BC content realm.  And those who still play, state they will definitely go play on that realm and so would a lot of their guildies.  What does that say?  Ok ok, I'm talking 10 people out of 3.5 million, but so what, we are about 15 people making comments on here.  What does it matter? Maybe cause we still love the game and wish it could get back to its glorious self?

you get a job raiding.  you raid one thing after another, all on your guild's schedule.  you're playing kaplan's game.  the way he likes it!  l2raid noobs!

yet, if they start releasing expansions on a regular basis; they become casual friendly again.

you hit, say, lvl 62/63 in tbc.  are the purps that geniuses raided MONTHS, literal MONTHS for... better than the blues you now possess?

no.

when the next expansion comes out, and everyone can hit 80.... all the people that spents MONTHS (again! didn't they learn???) raiding and repeating the same instances over and over and over ad nauseum (yeah, ad nauseum, i listen to my buds on vent sometimes... yeah, they're having a blast, lemme tell ya... NOT), well, they get shafted by us casuals again....

whatever they've spent all this time farming for... once i hit lvl 73, i trump them with my goodies.   i hit 80, find the eternal grind of stupidity and quit again.

they then raid on endlessly, neglecting work, family and even their own health....  and we get to repeat this process AGAIN... with the next expansion.

nifty little cycle.  dontcha think?

Why do I feel that I was the only one around not surprised that gear became redundant with the new expansion?

It's kind of naive to think this would never happen, considering the whole game revolves around replacing your gear with a slightly stronger set in order to kill the stronger monsters. 

So purples aren't uber anymore?  Gosh, now raiders need to raid again!  How terrible for us!   Or not, really.

Originally posted by damian7

 

you get a job raiding.  you raid one thing after another, all on your guild's schedule.  you're playing kaplan's game.  the way he likes it!  l2raid noobs!

yet, if they start releasing expansions on a regular basis; they become casual friendly again.

 

you hit, say, lvl 62/63 in tbc.  are the purps that geniuses raided MONTHS, literal MONTHS for... better than the blues you now possess?

no.

 

when the next expansion comes out, and everyone can hit 80.... all the people that spents MONTHS (again! didn't they learn???) raiding and repeating the same instances over and over and over ad nauseum (yeah, ad nauseum, i listen to my buds on vent sometimes... yeah, they're having a blast, lemme tell ya... NOT), well, they get shafted by us casuals again....

whatever they've spent all this time farming for... once i hit lvl 73, i trump them with my goodies.   i hit 80, find the eternal grind of stupidity and quit again.

they then raid on endlessly, neglecting work, family and even their own health....  and we get to repeat this process AGAIN... with the next expansion.

 

nifty little cycle.  dontcha think?

Tis why i said with Burning Crusade changed teh game from a progression MMO to a reputation grind MMO, it made everything that was worked for totally and udderly useless, of course unless you wanted to do it all over again, but come the next expansion like you state...

by the way, i chuckled at your post, and we thought strippers were playing the niftiest dirtiest trick on us!!!

I have to be brutally honest here, this was a very uneeded article, it was not proofread, and, well, it was uneeded.  I thought it would be a comparison to other games and looking at key elements, but instead I got a Shattrath general overview that I could find somewhere else.  You need to find a different topic in WoW to write about.

Also Joe, 1 post?  Come on man, you need to stay active on the site you work for!