Thanks for taking the time to write about your experiences. I had no idea vanguard neglected the pvp aspect to that extent. Wow, this really "is" like looking at EQ's long lost brother as EQ1 was never designed as a pvp game either. But with that said, I do like the idea of how pvp can deter one from harming their reputation and the fact that there are no level restrictions.

I personally like no level restrictions when it comes to pvp, that is if you have a mature playerbase. Frankly, if you had some max level killing lowbies, you'd hope there'd be other max level players that'd stick up for them and kick the guys arse, but anyway, good read!

I don t like PVP.

I don t like to be chain camped at cimetary.

I don t like the fact than i MUST raise PVP faction to get gears to be more efficient in PVE. (Like WOW before BC).

I chose Vanguard because there is no pvp, no reward pvp, no event pvp, no quest pvp.

If  Pvp get involve in PVE in vanguard i will just stop. Thanks god, there is still no pvp at the moment, exepte an empty server.

If Ppl like PVP i guess there is enough PVP game to be happy, please at least let that one without PVP ...

Fatebringer FTW!

Thanks for telling the truth and exposing Silius' dirty little secret about PVP in Vanguard.

That guy is a dead fish with a capital D.

I pity the people who stil play PVP in VG, seriously - The sad part is they probably feel all gratefull that after 3 months the tombstone bug finally got a reply. Sad, just sad.

Sartok is a server with 140 people on nightly. It's basically the same core group of players killing each other on their mains and twinked alts.

I appreciate the responses everyone.  I understand that some don't like PvP.  I am in no way trying to replace any PvE material, I simply want PvP to raise to the same level as the PvE content and then them both go forward.  Anyhow, this is how it stands in my eyes, I don't think we will ever be a flourishing community until the PvP system is fixed.

I am / was really wanting to try this game , but if it is a seperate pvp server , Instead of a combined pvp/safe areas type setup - I don't know if it is really worth playing now .

The thing is, Simon, that the game is a wonderful game at its core.  It has potential falling out of every pore.  It is a game that one must have patience with, but still leaps and bounds better, even with its faults, than any of the other releases to date (IMO).  Which means that if the bugs/missing content ever get resolved, this will be the game to play for life.

With such an attitude like that coming from a dev ( Im assuming Silius is a Dev) I don't blame you for quitting . There is nothing like ripping the cash away from them, to change the attitude of a a***hole dev. Well from a smart or wise dev anyway. Some of them never learn, the arrogant bas***ds.

I purchased Vanguard because of the continental pvp/factions that were in the roll out.These  were eliminated and only FFA pvp was left. I hate FFA pvp.I love faction warfare.The company continues to ignore FACTION warfare...so I continue to ignore the game.

Originally posted by Arawon

I purchased Vanguard because of the continental pvp/factions that were in the roll out.These  were eliminated and only FFA pvp was left. I hate FFA pvp.I love faction warfare.The company continues to ignore FACTION warfare...so I continue to ignore the game.

Same here

I joined Sartok VG server 2 months ago, hoping for kos factions & team pvp, but i soon realized that Silius & the dev team have destroyed these basic rulesets. Instead of building up content upon it. Dumb.

Now i find it harder & harder to look forward logging back into the game.

In my experience PvP has been a valuable asset to subscriber numbers and little else. So I understand that as someone who finds PvP to be pretty much a dull experience I'm very much in the minority. Which is probably also why I tend to find myself very much at home in Vanguard as it is filled with people just like me. The community, as the original article says, is one of the most helpful and friendly, there is. I don't believe for a moment that a PvP community can't be these things, but I do think that the cooperative PvE focus of the game encourages such a community.

Vanguard is, and has always been, a niche game. At release it was marketed as the 'true' successor of Everquest; a 'hardcore' game with death penalties, corpse runs, difficult travel and a system that encourages grouping over solo play. This hardcore stance has been very much softened since then but it's appeal is still that it is an next generation MMO with first generation play experience. A great part of that is that it is a PvE focused game.

One of the things that makes a good PvE game is well defined class roles. This is something that Vanguard does particularly well. Each and every one of the classes in Vanguard feels unique and brings something different to the group. PvP games bring with it the inevitable issues of class balancing. Yet, by balancing the classes to fight each other instead of with each other, the immediate danger is that uniqueness gets lost.

There is no shortage of PvP games out there. Vanguard isn't one of them and I think it would become lesser if it tried to become one. In trying to become a game of all things for all people in a bid for subscribes it would loose what identity it currently has. Let other games cater for those who wish to PvP, they already do it so much better. Instead let Vanguard strive to be the best at filling the niche it does; a cooperative group based PvE Game.

There is no secret about PvP in Vanguard, its atm not supported.

IMHO they should simply close the server and add, as someone suggested, a server with original ruleset.

And you can get the information that VG PvP is  unsupported in a couple of minutes by clicking on the VG Forum on this site and reading some topics, or opening a thread. Dont think anyone will tell you that PvP in VG is great. Thats not official though.

I am / was really wanting to try this game , but if it is a seperate pvp server , Instead of a combined pvp/safe areas type setup - I don't know if it is really worth playing now .

You will find a small and dedicated playerbase on Sartok. If you like such a scenario give it a try, else check pvp based games out like WAR.

Nice article but I disagree about unpredictability. Most PVPers learn their i-win tactic (usually from forums and based on a cookie-cutter pvp-build) and blindly repeat that.

If you like FFA pvp then try AoC. Pretty soon the PVP there will have consequences due to the fugitive system and there will also be rewards. Even without this stuff the it's still fun having that element of danger, plus the servers are well populated.

If you like faction PVP then wait for WAR.

Yes Vanguard is not a PVP game ....its not ...

What the sky hasn't fallen ..the earth is still here ...amazing .

The reality is Vanguard is one of the best PVE games on the market .The majority of us couldn't care about the PVP aspect of an MMO .I disagree also with the Op's suggestion that PVP requires greater skill and is much more challenging than PVE .I have played MMO's that are suppose to be examples of great PVP achievement and was ganked by people 70 levels higher than me and killed crossing instances ...yes great skill that takes .In Vanguard once you reach level 50 and decide to tackle the boss monsters its takes weeks of planning ...and often your whole guild can die

Best thing that Sony can do  is acknowledge that Vanguard isn't a PVP game or it is limited ...so that these types of reviews can stop as they detract from what the game is ...a brilliant and immersive PVE experience that offers an Oblivion type experience but in a MMO sense

Later  :)

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

 

The reality is Vanguard is one of the best PVE games on the market .

That is your reality - Viewed through rose colored spectacles.

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

 Best thing that Sony can do  is acknowledge that Vanguard isn't a PVP game or it is limited ...so that these types of reviews can stop

It had Team and FFA  servers at launch. It still has an an FFA server. Vangaurd IS a PVP. It just happens that it's a crappy PVP game because the Developers have ignored it for the past 11 months.

Using your logic, VG is not a game with diplomacy because they fired the one dev. who worked on it; and, VG is not a raiding game because after a year + there is only 1 raiding zone. It is also not a roleplay game because they sacked the one RP server.

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

an Oblivion type experience...............
 

 Is that because the servers are so thinly populated so as to make a gamer think she is playing off-line and alone?

---

It just happens that it's a crappy PVP game because the Developers have ignored it for the past 11 months.

---

The rest of the post doesnt make much sense.

I'm playing Ryzom now actually. Well, as of 4 days ago.

And you're right - It has faction based pvp, ffa and guild vs. guild. Plus, the pve/skill based world is dead hooker cool.

It is nice to be challenged  and once more earn my skill, levels and titles in adventuring, crafting and harvesting vs. some other games who's first initials start Vanguard Saga of Heros.

Originally posted by tigris67

Thanks for taking the time to write about your experiences. I had no idea vanguard neglected the pvp aspect to that extent. Wow, this really "is" like looking at EQ's long lost brother as EQ1 was never designed as a pvp game either. But with that said, I do like the idea of how pvp can deter one from harming their reputation and the fact that there are no level restrictions.

I personally like no level restrictions when it comes to pvp, that is if you have a mature playerbase. Frankly, if you had some max level killing lowbies, you'd hope there'd be other max level players that'd stick up for them and kick the guys arse, but anyway, good read!

The sad thing is, is that there WERE plans for PvP. Not a FFA PvP server that gets tacked on to any game. But REAL PvP on the regular servers. In an interview several months after release, one of the developers talked about the plans for PvP. Its just another tthing that was intended to be in the game, but it released to early, and yet another thing that got forgotten because there's no just enough developers to get to it fast enough.

For those who missed it, the plan was to implement mounted and ship combat (flying was even a possibility) and then allow guilds to wage wars against eachother. In the ocean between continents would be dozens of islands that guilds could take control of through force of arms and fight a territory war. A battleground was to be added, and an arena. But... like I said, this all fell by the wayside. Shame, because it would have added an extra level to the game.

Originally posted by Trueth

I'm playing Ryzom now actually. Well, as of 4 days ago.

And you're right - It has faction based pvp, ffa and guild vs. guild. Plus, the pve/skill based world is dead hooker cool.

It is nice to be challenged  and once more earn my skill, levels and titles in adventuring, crafting and harvesting vs. some other games who's first initials start Vanguard Saga of Heros.

I played Ryzom beta a long time ago and its a good game. Payed it a visit some days ago, doesnt seem to be changed much (the nice loading screen is gone sadly). In the beginning it has a pretty steep learning curve, later it gets repetitive. Its a bit different to other mmorpgs, so worth to look at.

Have fun!

Trueth, how are you playing Ryzom?  I downloaded it, but when I loaded it up, I had a black screen.  You have any idea about that?

Fate,

I had some major tech issues when I tried to start.  I started this thread:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/196805

And Gilgameesh set me right. I never had a black screen, but I did have every other color. Follow the progession of my troubles and see how he told me to fix them - The final blue screen was fixed by disabling AGP testures in ryzom's config, just click 'no' when it asks you if you want more info. Just pay attention to Gilgameesh's comments, the others people didnt help.

I hope that helps. I'm just barely level 20 in all 4 spheres.

PS - You registered and got your key right?

I sent you a pm also, but your name is goofy, so I don't know if you got it.

I thought I would X post this, since it's a great reply by a VG player regarding PVP.

Some of you might think I hate VG; at this particular moment I do. But I'd go back if I could - Here is why I can't, though.

http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=37915

"Bah stop getting upset at PvPers for not going to the Fan Faire. This is just skipping over the issue, misdirecting the attention to something that has absolutely nothing to do with the same 'ol questions why PvP has been ignored for the past year and half. Some of you people are just finding ways to somehow....find faults with PvP players as if we're the ones causing the devs to not pay attention to PvP.

Seriously, flip back to the first few pages, you noticed how Silius disappeared *again* after I posted a few questions that would've been great for him to answer? That's what we're talking about. Instead, people are here talking about how we would've gotten some answers if PvP players showed up at the fan faire, or suggesting that our attitudes is why they aren't paying attention to PvP. That's utter bs and you know it. Stop changing the subjects and dodging the real issues.

The real issues is that anytime when people ask real, solid questions about PvP on this forum, Silius disappears. He's the lead designer of Vanguard, no other designers or coders can touch anything without his consent. So if we can't get through to him to get his support, we are SOL. And so far, it sure looks that way, and nothing has changed, Fan Faire or not.

Ok and let's be honest, Silius was the crafting dev, and now he's the lead designer for VG. I can understand if he doesn't know anything about PvP, he probably doesn't understand it, never played on a PvP server, and he doesn't understand what makes us tick. That could be part of the issues why there has been no PvP content or PvP fixes, because frankly he may not feel it's an important aspect of the game. While I do appreciate Hobart fixing the couple of *urgent* long time issues, even he admitted that he has no idea how PvP works. I guess that is the reality with Vanguard today? That VG simply doesn't have any devs left that helped put the team & FFA ruleset together initially? So for them to dive into PvP, they have to start fresh, learn it from scratch, almost kinda like what they had to do with diplomacy after SOE let Aruspex go.

I like this game, lots of people like this game, but people are sick and tired of being ignored for almost 2 years now. It doesn't take much for him to respond to some players' ideas, suggestions, questions, and posts. If Silius and the rest of the dev team working on VG today don't understand PvP, then it would be even more beneficial for them to get into a dialogue with players, taking in their ideas & suggestions. And honestly the dev chat thing doesn't work, because I've been to the past 2 stratics devchats. While they were cool, my PvP questions were mysteriously not asked. The dev chats do not allow you to ask a question straight out, because the devs can choose what not to answer. So again, that further reinforce the feeling from the PvP community that PvP is being ignored.

All the bs aside, let me just ask devs this one more time. If you want to keep Sartok up and running, then please support it. The PvP rulesets have been in the game since launch, people paid for the game boxes & collector's editions to play the rulesets you implemented. If you have no plans to support it, then please just close it down and save everybody some heartaches. To all the none PvP crowds, seriously, 2 years of being ignored is long enough. There shouldn't be any more excuses to why they've ignored PvP for so long with absolutely no words & no plans to show for its future."

bcrankshaw, first of all man you're pointing out one experience of one person who ganked a lowbie character. I don't think the author was attempting in any way to refer to THIS type of act as the skill required for pvp. They were probably referring to two characters, on equal grounds dueling it out to the death, and as a hardcore PvPer since 1997 I can attest that this is not always an easy feat and DOES require plenty of skill.

Secondly, I highly doubt it was the original author's attention to deter anyone from playing vanguard or take away ANYTHING from the solid PvE of this game. They were simply stating that the PvP should definitely be looked into and given a little bit of "love," as this would bring in even more of a playerbase to the game, which in turn would even populate the PvE servers further as they see more people playing the game in general.

Originally posted by tigris67

Thanks for taking the time to write about your experiences. I had no idea vanguard neglected the pvp aspect to that extent. Wow, this really "is" like looking at EQ's long lost brother as EQ1 was never designed as a pvp game either. But with that said, I do like the idea of how pvp can deter one from harming their reputation and the fact that there are no level restrictions.

I personally like no level restrictions when it comes to pvp, that is if you have a mature playerbase. Frankly, if you had some max level killing lowbies, you'd hope there'd be other max level players that'd stick up for them and kick the guys arse, but anyway, good read!

It might have never been made for PvP, but I assure you, myself, and a lot of the old school Rallos Zek players, had a ton of fun...

Before the teams/dieties/merges....

No level restrictions just leads to a ton of BS, now don't get me wrong. I am all for it as well. But I also am not that one donkey that camps the new player area, "PWNING" them either....