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Originally posted by slapme7times
wow looks alot nicer.

the textures are incredibly ugly, and the combat looks killer boring.

i was really excited about this game.. but now that i see it in motion...  looks like i'll be wating for huxley, webzen's project, and warhammer online.

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 I am wondering if graphics are a matter of perspective.

 It seems that some people think WoW looks better and some People think Vanguard looks better. It's really intersting, and I am wondering how hard it would be for me to get a goverment grant to research this. Set up a survey for everyone, then get paid for it all.

 You also had the comment that all the classes are the same classes as in every MMO. I think you're right and wrong at the same time.

  While the basics are the same:

 Necros raise dead thing, cast plagues, etc.. /Rogues attack from the shadows, duel weild, etc.../ Rangers shoot bows, track, etc...

 I think there are some key expansions to each class, atleast the ones I have read about:

 Necro raises a corpse that not only levels with the caster, but can be modified by the caster with various types of dead related pieces of armor and weapons. he can also raise multiple minions and more as he levels, this concept is wonderful and rarely used. /Bards can actually build songs, this is an interesting concept to me./ Druids have elemental pets...this is kinda cool too.

 Besides the fact that there are 19 classes, and 15 races, makes me excited, I don't think there is a game that can boast that. Not sure though.

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Originally posted by slapme7times
wow looks alot nicer.

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Originally posted by slapme7times
wow looks alot nicer.

the textures are incredibly ugly, and the combat looks killer boring.

i was really excited about this game.. but now that i see it in motion...  looks like i'll be wating for huxley, webzen's project, and warhammer online.

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Wait to see the game at release. These are still beta FRAPS videos, and everyone knows FRAPS steals about 7-10 fps. Even still, I highly prefer the realistic look over WoW's cartoon land any day. Have fun waiting years though.

Combat looks awesome to me, not sure what video you were watching. The textures are incredibly ugly? lol maybe 8 times would have been better for you.

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Originally posted by slapme7times
wow looks alot nicer.the textures are incredibly ugly, and the combat looks killer boring.i was really excited about this game.. but now that i see it in motion...  looks like i'll be wating for huxley, webzen's project, and warhammer online.

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LOL Huxley? so you would rather pay to play a FPS that looks no different than the FPS's that are out there now only not as good? however i am also looking forward to warhammer but just think that Huxley comment was hilarious....let me know how that turns out haha.

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Originally posted by grinreaper

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Originally posted by slapme7times
wow looks alot nicer.

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Please seek professional help at once. You may argue that wow is better drawn, or that you enjoy the Games Workshop style of art...but by every ojective standard available to mankind, Vanguard looks better.

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Originally posted by tkobo

...I see the same lame "gang" of heroes "bravely" killing  some outnumbered foe .

...Its a real shame MMO devs dont give up on MMOs and make animated movies instead.They show a real talent for making animated movies.

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That's where their emphasis is.  Players spend nearly all their time either directly in combat or doing things related to combat.  But all the designers care about is art direction.  They'll have most of their zones fleshed out before they get around to slapping together a combat system.  They'll have a thousand "styles" of armor and weapons, but no two of them will differ the slightest in how they affect the process of combat - you can only tell them apart by looking at their stat spreadsheets.  My guess is that the only experience most of most of these guys have with fighting is the wrong end of a beating.  So the characters just kind of take turns trading hits.

It's not just MMO's. I just tried to look up some gameplay videos to see what NWN 2 is going to be like. The CEO lisped his way through a twenty minute presentation, almost wetting himself over how pretty the water was and how you could make the lights change color in the editor. Oh, yeah, then in the last 2 minutes, he finally got around to mentioning the combat system. Looks like hammered crap. Of course the textures are duly upgraded, but the combat is straight out of 1995 -- a huge step backwards from the reactive animations that Bioware did 3 years ago.

As for Vanguard, I thought they were patting themselves on the back over how "revolutionary" their combat system was. Hmmm, let's see... A monster waits patiently until a "puller" calls it over; then said monster obediently attacks a "main tank" while "healers" pump a fire-hose-sized blood transfusion into him; half a dozen "dps'ers" jab the MOB in the backside; and wizards and archers stand back and shoot endless bazooka missiles that never hit their teammates covering the target like a machine-washed sweater.

But can you imagine the bloody murder the montony-addicted "hardcores" out there would scream if this choreography was changed one millimeter from the mindless waltz they've spent thousands of hours conditioning themselves to? "THE MONSTER DIDN'T PLAY FAIR!!!!"

The game looks like it has way more polish than anything else coming out this year...

It's a shame the best looking game for graphics and quality doesn't really hold much appeal to me right now. Let me start with some background: one of the biggest drawbacks to raiding in WoW was the utter boredom of standing there wacking the same mob for multiple minutes. These fights wheren't a challenge after try 3, just a challenge to stay awake for. So, for me, the biggest drawback I keep seeing in every Vanguard video is the long, slow fights. Maybe damage will be turned up by the end of beta, maybe it will stay the same...I personally would like to see much, much faster fights.

I also have been wanting a skill based character system since I left WoW and a bit more player/community content instead of a raiding end game. The whole "getting items to get more items" doesn't really appeal to me. I am more drawn to buying from a crafter so really nice items so I can PvP and PvE/explore. I never thought I'd say that, since I'm always a poor explorer/fighter...I remember how much I thought I wanted loot in SWG so I didn't have to deal with other players and spend my hard-earned credits. But I came to value the player community in an MMO, to the point a game that lacks it has a lot smaller draw on me. To the credit of Vanguard, the housing looked pretty cool and there could be a really good community and merchant side to the game...but considering the 1 housing video I found compared to the 6 other combat demos, I'm guessing it is a smaller focus.

Save your flames please, it's just how I feel about what works for me in a game. I'm not saying Vanguard is a bad game or it has to change. Like I said: it looks like a highly polished game with great graphics and a nice, clean interface. I think it will appeal to a large number of people and they will have a lot of fun with it.

You were right though Brad: I did myself a favour by watching those videos.

I still don't think some of you still realize but Vanguard is still in beta. It is going to be more refined by relese and im sure more content will be put in into those areas you called "cold".
Be patient!

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Originally posted by kopema

As for Vanguard, I thought they were patting themselves on the back over how "revolutionary" their combat system was. Hmmm, let's see... A monster waits patiently until a "puller" calls it over; then said monster obediently attacks a "main tank" while "healers" pump a fire-hose-sized blood transfusion into him; half a dozen "dps'ers" jab the MOB in the backside; and wizards and archers stand back and shoot endless bazooka missiles that never hit their teammates covering the target like a machine-washed sweater.

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You have obviously not followed much of Vanguard. There are all kinds of great innovations with their combat system, I urge you to read up on it.

May I ask what MMORPG you find does do the combat system right in your opinion?

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Originally posted by anarchyart

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Originally posted by kopema

As for Vanguard, I thought they were patting themselves on the back over how "revolutionary" their combat system was. Hmmm, let's see... A monster waits patiently until a "puller" calls it over; then said monster obediently attacks a "main tank" while "healers" pump a fire-hose-sized blood transfusion into him; half a dozen "dps'ers" jab the MOB in the backside; and wizards and archers stand back and shoot endless bazooka missiles that never hit their teammates covering the target like a machine-washed sweater.

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You have obviously not followed much of Vanguard. There are all kinds of great innovations with their combat system, I urge you to read up on it.

May I ask what MMORPG you find does do the combat system right in your opinion?

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If you've finally figured out that reading is so fundamental, how come you can't figure out what the words above your post say?  Just because you have absolutely no idea what I'm describing doesn't mean you haven't spent thousands of hours doing it.

And, oh, btw, look up the word "innovation" while you're at it.  It doesn't mean "make it exactly the same as all the other ones, because that's all that anach can understand."

Otherwise, good point.

Well, I have watched both videos multiple times now. An advise I'd have is: watch the first movie without music to focus on the graphics.

I can neither condemn nor praise the videos. They are alright but dont fill me with awe either. I always loved big worlds, which the 1st video shows. I loved SWG because of their huge planets, while WOW and EQ2 always felt quite claustropobic to me. I was so funny, all those wolves, bears and scorpions in masses crowded and packed in that small zones, especially in EQ2. In that way Vanguard looks good.

HOWEVER, since I played Dark and Light, I have become very sceptical about huge worlds. I never felt any world as barren and lonely as in Dark and Light, and if you lack to place enough eye catchers and landmarks into a vast world, it can become a lonely place very fast. This is mostly something we can not judge based on videos at all. It remains to be seen if those big landscapes can be filled with memorable landmarks.

The spider fight... it was another fighting video in which combat against a single creature took an awfully long time. I can only hope they are epic boss mobs, otherwise it could become dull soon for me. The animations in combat are not exciting and rather simple. The spells are somewhat ok tho.

What I totally dont understand is, how this graphics can have so high demands?? Nothing so grand and new in detail or vastness to justify that IMO.

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Originally posted by Elikal

The spider fight... it was another fighting video in which combat against a single creature took an awfully long time.

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Originally posted by kopema

And, oh, btw, look up the word "innovation" while you're at it.  It doesn't mean "make it exactly the same as all the other ones, because that's all that anach can understand."

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You honestly need to read up a bit on the combat. It's not exactly the same as all the other ones. There are all kinds of innovations, from the way your character deals and takes damage, to how mobs react to aggro, and the list goes on. I won't take the time to quote the FAQ, but there are plenty of ways for you to find out.

I will give you one example. If you are a ranger, you can adjust how far you pull back your bow during fights to sacrifice some accuracy and power for speed, and vice versa. And then there are the fighting stances. It's really quite innovative, and there are tons more. Look into it and you might even be impressed.

And I'll ask it one more time, even though I'm quite sure you'll ignore it again:

May I ask what MMORPG you find does do the combat system right in your opinion?

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Originally posted by anarchyart

May I ask what MMORPG you find does do the combat system right in your opinion?

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Originally posted by ray12k

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Originally posted by anarchyart

May I ask what MMORPG you find does do the combat system right in your opinion?

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ASHERONS CALL

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Hahahah Rofl  Go play AC then and stop trolling VSoH's boards :D.

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Originally posted by anarchyart

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Originally posted by kopema

Hmmm, let's see... A monster waits patiently until a "puller" calls it over; then said monster obediently attacks a "main tank" while "healers" pump a fire-hose-sized blood transfusion into him; half a dozen "dps'ers" jab the MOB in the backside; and wizards and archers stand back and shoot endless bazooka missiles that never hit their teammates covering the target like a machine-washed sweater.

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And I'll ask it one more time, even though I'm quite sure you'll ignore it again:

May I ask what MMORPG you find does do the combat system right in your opinion?

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Umm, of course I like combat systems that don't work that way.  And - again, of course - my point was that I was hoping a NEW game might try to do it DIFFERENTLY than that.

Actually, I sort of thought I went a bit overboard the first time I said that - let alone when I pointed it out to you again.  So I guess I sort of assumed there was no one who could possibly fail to pick up on what I was getting at there.  Nevertheless, I am sorry that my doing so made you feel ignored.

The real question should be:  If you are so desperately enamored of the way that stereotypical MMORPG combat works, why in the heck could you possibly want another game?  All the old ones can just add new graphics skins indefinitely.  That's the good thing about "non-discerning customers."  The bad thing is you tend to ruin it for the rest of us.

Oh, and btw, pretty much all MMORPGs have fighting stances nowadays.  You might want to break down and buy a subscription to one.  Fortunately, you won't have to waste any of your valuable time shopping around; I have a feeling you'll like pretty much anything somebody puts on a screen.

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Originally posted by tkobo

I must be missing something.I dont see anything impressive in EITHER video.

I see the same lame char structure and "jobs".

I see the same lame char stands in place ,while player pushes butttons for the combat.

I see the same lame 2 ton monsters STILL unable to simply step on and squish the gnats surrounding it.

I see the same lame "gang" of heroes "bravely" killing  some outnumbered foe .

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