Because most ppl remember/have heard horror stories from the EQ1 era of games...naked corpse runs, dieing under Nafgen's toe, ect. What people forget:

1) Sigil has said it isnt going to be like that in this game.

2) While it is certainly frustrating, it is hardship like that that brought the community together.

---

Originally posted by Phoenixs

This is how I see challenge:Challenge is not:Grinding for hours to get a exp debth away.Grinding for hours to get enough gold to do repairs.Grinding for thousands of hours just to get something.Challenge is:Something that takes skill.Something that you have to master.Something that requires a little of the thing called a brain. There is nothing more braindead than grinding.Beating a hard boss, that requires tons of work on strategies, the encounter and the execution, and not tons of work on a deathpenalty from a wipe.Grinding has nothing to do with challenge. It's just something to feed to braindead zombies with to much time on their hands. Grind is just there when the devs are to clueless to find out something else to make you stay untill the next amount is drawn from your cc.

---

i agree however, if the content it self is challenging and you die death penalties make it harder to get to your goal witch is leveling up.

this is a level based game, in a level based game death penalties indeed make it more challenging if you are careless and always die.

if there are no death penalties then it doesn't matter if you die, i think if you make a mistake and wipe your group you should be penalized for it.

as far as the actual content being difficult that is something completely different, i would assume they can make the content as difficult as they want and i hope it is really challenging.

but you better get used to time sinks if you like to play mmog's that have subscriptions to play, it is not going to change. they want you to stay playing their game as long as possible so you will keep paying that $15 per month.

I'm not sure what els a game can do to keep you interested for more than a couple months, but by all means show me a game that don't have a grind or a time sink that has a subscription fee.

---

Originally posted by Stellos
I agree totally that there should be a price of dying.  It brings an aspect to the game that was missing in WoW.  However, I don't want the penalties to be so great that everyone plays super conservative. 

---

yes, the death penalties should not be to extreme IMO. i heard a radio interview with April Jones where she talks about this, i guess they are currently working on the death system and they are trying to figure out a happy medium between no death penalty and to extreme of a death penalty.

I love death punishment. It just gives more thrill to the game. It's like playing WoW on PvE server... It's just not fun. No thrill... No fear of some lvl ?? corps camper. And I'm being serius here.

---

Originally posted by Gorilla
So I guess perma death would suit you hard core guys?

---

no not in a item-centric game like vanguard, although i did enjoy diablo2's hardcore system where there was permadeath. i think permadeath would be awsome in the right game, just not vanguard.

---

Originally posted by Delzo
What gets me is that there are plenty of easy, softcore mmo games out there. Why people need to complain about the one game that comes out for the hardcore is beyond me.

Actually, this phenomenon might be a direct result of their own playstyle. With no difficulty or risk built into their games, they crank through all the content and reach level 60 in a month, get bored, and are already looking to the market for their next game.

With strong death penalties in hardcore games, people actually have to take it slower, and to think twice about running headlong into that next mob...they actually need to consider their next move, because if they mess up, it MEANS SOMETHING.

---

---

Originally posted by Homieslice

Originally posted by DelzoWhat gets me is that there are plenty of easy, softcore mmo games out there. Why people need to complain about the one game that comes out for the hardcore is beyond me.Actually, this phenomenon might be a direct result of their own playstyle. With no difficulty or risk built into their games, they crank through all the content and reach level 60 in a month, get bored, and are already looking to the market for their next game.With strong death penalties in hardcore games, people actually have to take it slower, and to think twice about running headlong into that next mob...they actually need to consider their next move, because if they mess up, it MEANS SOMETHING.

Totally agree

---

---

Originally posted by dimaryp
Grinding out xp means nothing. To me there are two camps, ones that think skill equals how much time you put into the game, and the other camp that thinks skill equals how well you know your game. Most of us that advocate no death penilty, actually want a harder game. A game where no matter how many times you try, no matter how many hours you spend grinding, if you can not play the game, you never beat that boss. Those without time, think time not equals skill; those without skill, think time equals skill.

---

People always want it easy.. until they get start get bored because "something is missing".. Without any risk they isnt much fun, just repetitive yawning.

I personally don't care about the death penalty. It can be severe. It can be medium. It can be light. Doesn't matter to me at all. I played EQ back in the day when even beginning characters could lose a level (before they changed it). I have played WoW that has almost no death penalty. None of this makes one game hard and another easy. It's just one thing among many things.

The issue for me is, how fun is the game? EQ is fun. WoW is fun. Will Vanguard be fun? I say no, but not because of the death penalty.

---

Originally posted by Amathe

The issue for me is, how fun is the game? EQ is fun. WoW is fun. Will Vanguard be fun? I say no, but not because of the death penalty.

---

may i ask why you think eqs combat is fun but you think vanguard's wont? and if it is not the combat what is it? i loved eq1 but lets be honest, the combat was not why it was so fun (at least not for me).

i loved it because it was the first online game i ever played that actually felt like a living breathing world, and i also loved it because of the friends and community i had there.

if i played eq1 just for how fun the combat was i wouldn't have been playing for very long, there were other aspects of the game that made it fun for me it was not the actual combat it self...even though i don't mind slower combat like that, to me thats what most rpg's have always been like.