Originally posted by interfekter

mmm permadeath !! great idea :) then thered be a lot less smack talking 12 year olds, 'me am pwn u!!!11oneone'
Originally posted by baphamet

Originally posted by GorillaSo I guess perma death would suit you hard core guys?

no not in a item-centric game like vanguard, although i did enjoy diablo2's hardcore system where there was permadeath. i think permadeath would be awsome in the right game, just not vanguard.
____________________________________________

Yeah guess there would be less ppl generally :) Perhaps a server with the possibilty and the hardcore players get a bonus, for example on xp.

(I still can't use the editor)

HELL YEAH there should be open pvp, makes everything more interesting and realistic; though swgs covert/overt system was pretty thoughtful too.  Though i think pvp death should be less punishing than vs. npc or you would just scare away more people from it.  IMO there should definitely be permadeath, for the same reasons there should be open pvp, more REALISTICITY.  Of course as the same situation as pvp there should be a lesser consequence for dieing vs. a player, or more preferably getting rid of permadeath entirely vs. players.  This would help the continuos ganking.

On a more realistic note, there should definitely be common player friendliness ingame.  Through player friendliness a game becomes popular, and through a game becoming popular more commoners and hardcore players come.  Even at times converting commoners to hardcore pvpers.

---

Originally posted by Phoenixs
This is how I see challenge:

Challenge is not:

Grinding for hours to get a exp debth away.
Grinding for hours to get enough gold to do repairs.
Grinding for thousands of hours just to get something.

Challenge is:

Something that takes skill.
Something that you have to master.
Something that requires a little of the thing called a brain. There is nothing more braindead than grinding.
Beating a hard boss, that requires tons of work on strategies, the encounter and the execution, and not tons of work on a deathpenalty from a wipe.

Grinding has nothing to do with challenge. It's just something to feed to braindead zombies with to much time on their hands. Grind is just there when the devs are to clueless to find out something else to make you stay untill the next amount is drawn from your cc.

---

---

Originally posted by mpl1979

--------------------------------

Thanks for your response:)
I realise that I am decribing some of the extreme cases, but I did take them from your link: "a giant worm that eats your corpses, and until it dies, there is no corpse to loot". I also realise that the xp penalty might not be present a long with the "eat-corpse" penalty, but if it is, then several wipes might each take a bit of of xp. Smaller penalties like "a corpse that drops with all of your items that has to be recovered or dragged out by a friend" will also be very tough to handle for many.
And hard death penalty -> less tolerance I am afraid, even if most deaths will be only a small annoyance and mostly remind you that you have to focus.

I have only played WoW so I guess that is why I am so concerned about death-penalties. I also realise that WoW is targetting the broad masses, and VG might be more for "core-players". On the other hand,, which I would like very much (so I can convince my friends to join as well:D)

---

yeah, the only thing i can tell you is try it for yourself. if you have only played wow and like the feeling of accomplishment that it gives you when you finally get an item you have been wanting or beat a boss that you have wanted to beat for a long time....then i think you will love a game like vanguard.

from reading about the current death penalty i don't think it is as bad as most people think it will be, but then again if you have only played wow then I'm sure to you it could be bad.

wow has virtually no death penalty other than the money sink at higher levels after you start getting epic gear. i actually welcome a death penalty as long as it isn't as bad or worse than eq1 was (that was my first mmo).

it has already been confirmed that it will not be as bad as eq1 and i agree with you that " the huge amount of very varied possibilities that has been announced so far seems to indicate that VG is going for some broad appeal too".

again i suggest you try it for yourself and decided, i really don't think it is going to be as bad as you think it will be. oh and the case with the "worm" from what i have read is a very rare case, and I'm not sure that you would ever have to endure a encounter like that if you didn't want to.

I'm guessing it will probably be a high end encounter maybe even a raid so i wouldn't worry to much about that.

I definately will try it and I guess that I should trust the developers on making balanced death-penalties. The fact that they are already aware that it can be an important issue is quite reassuring.

Corpse retrievals are so 1999ish. I know some people swear corpse retrievals make a game more fun. I swear it puts players into "play it safe mode", inhibits exploring and adventuring - and fun.

Sigil, copy the  WoW death system, please. It is a tried and true, popular system.

Or, best of all worlds, give players a choice. Servers with the brutal death system, and servers with a WoW type death system.

---

Originally posted by bhwama

Corpse retrievals are so 1999ish. I know some people swear corpse retrievals make a game more fun. I swear it puts players into "play it safe mode", inhibits exploring and adventuring - and fun.

Sigil, copy the  WoW death system, please. It is a tried and true, popular system.

Or, best of all worlds, give players a choice. Servers with the brutal death system, and servers with a WoW type death system.

---

Delzo wrote:

Trust me, only WoW is WoW and the last thing we need is another game trying to be WoW.

Wow.
 

Hehe I stand corrected Delzo. Let Vanguard be Vanguard and do things their way. Sigil must know how/why they are doing things like they are.

One of the basic reasons for ppl who want the corpse retrieval is they played EQ1 and remember it as the best time in MMOs the had. I didnt play EQ1 ever, but I have some questionmarks behing this idea.

1. It MAY be that this is the "pink glasses" of memory. In the past all things appear nicer than they were. They recall the great times in EQ1 but the human mind tends to forget about the bad times.

2. First Love - Syndrome: like our frist girlfriend/boyfriend this first person is always idolized, some model who is a measure for all lovers to follow. I know most of my friends who played multiple MMO love the MMO they played for a longer period the first time is their favourite. It has become their measure to compare other games to like the first love.

3. Most important: EQ1 corpse retrieval was 1999. SEVEN years ago! I think the MMO and the gaming community has changed. Back then most MMO players where a rather similar group of people, with similar socialisation, background, values and so on. The world has changed in seven years, and so has the MMO gaming community. I dont think any game can recreate the spirit of EQ1. People are much more self-centered and have a shorter span of attention than in 1999. Because this is so, corpse retrieval cant reanimate the EQ1 spirit.

I take any bet the death penality of VSoH WILL grow less and less over time; this has been the way in practically all MMOs. Don't say nay for the sake of nay-saying! :P

Elikal wrote:

"3. Most important: EQ1 corpse retrieval was 1999. SEVEN years ago! I think the MMO and the gaming community has changed. Back then most MMO players where a rather similar group of people, with similar socialisation, background, values and so on. The world has changed in seven years, and so has the MMO gaming community. I dont think any game can recreate the spirit of EQ1. People are much more self-centered and have a shorter span of attention than in 1999. Because this is so, corpse retrieval cant reanimate the EQ1 spirit.

I take any bet the death penality of VSoH WILL grow less and less over time; this has been the way in practically all MMOs. Don't say nay for the sake of nay-saying! :P"

Well , we don't know just what the death system will be like right now in Vanguard. Mr. McQaid in his official faq ( stickied here and a good read) says the corpse retrievals will be important to gameplay. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.  EQ1 was my first mmorpg, it had an undeniable magic to it,  and I am rooting for him and Sigil.

Yep, we won't know how good or bad the death system is until some beta testers say, " The death system is not as bad as it sounds until you die somewhere." hehe, like they did in EQ2.