CylusSigil- well, it's good to hear that you will be using valuable development time to make the battle animations more exciting. Now how about the mountain of bugs, glitches and stuff that has yet to be implemented?

Because, while battle animations may make the game more pleasing to the eye over promising and under delivering on features(especially at launch) can kill an MMO very fast. Just ask SWG and DnL about that.

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Originally posted by Xiaoki

CylusSigil- well, it's good to hear that you will be using valuable development time to make the battle animations more exciting. Now how about the mountain of bugs, glitches and stuff that has yet to be implemented?

Because, while battle animations may make the game more pleasing to the eye over promising and under delivering on features(especially at launch) can kill an MMO very fast. Just ask SWG and DnL about that.

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1)  You're assuming that we haven't previously scheduled time for the animations.

2)  You're assuming that we haven't previously planned on upgrading the animations so any upgrade will take a ton of time and effort due to lack of forethought and streamlining.

3)  You're assuming that the team responsible for the animations is the same team responsible for all of that "mountain."

Granted, any time invested into anything in the game will take time away from something else but that's just life.  If we manage our time well, there shouldn't be many problems.  If not, we have bigger things to worry about than the animations

Thanks for the vote of confidence, though

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Originally posted by CylusSigil

Do you honestly think that any company, including us, would neglect to update the animations following such a poor response from the community?  Sheesh.

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Considering how you answer to the "non-raiding community" needs...(which is 95% of the community)

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Originally posted by Anofalye

Considering how you answer to the "non-raiding community" needs...(which is 95% of the community)

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Don't bother attempting to goad me, Anofayle.  Whether you want to believe it or not, 80% of the content will be grouping and soloing and we're definatley concentrating on the grouping element.

And yes, I see where you are coming from when you state that raiding rewards should not translate back to group encounters.  Discussing an elegant solution to that situation is something that I'd be more than happy to discuss over lunch or a beer but I refuse to do it in this medium.  Whatever I'd say would automatically reflect on Sigil, for good or ill, regardless of the fact that they'd just be my personal opinions. 

Also, that's just my personal choice and not some rule set forth by Sigil to avoid misinformation and malcontent; so feel free to keep their conspiracy theories to yourselves

I've read all about this puppy for years now, the only reasons people could hate it so much is because they called a next generation mmorpg or because of sony.

My opinion is that consenual pvp, guild vs guild, without looting lacks excitement, yea I know blast me for that statement. The fact that I know I'm better than so-and-so is reward enough, blah blah blah, sorry its just not true.

The funny thing is that UO, the second oldest game has more to do than all other moorpgs combined. There are no quests, no forced grouping, no instances for either groups or dungeons or epic battles. Basically just a world where you can do or be what you want. If you take away the grafix and sound rating it is the highest rated game ever. As far as role playing UO beats them all by leaps and bounds.

Gaming companies need to learn that a good crafting system, good pvp with looting are essential to a quality game.  Most important dont force us to do quests, quests should not give expierence but instead experience should be gained while doing the quest. Give us a world where theres plenty to do but nothing that HAS to be done. 

The reason is because the psychopath hard core old school EQ original fan base sunk their claws into it, Tried to make it their own, chased anyone out of Beta that would even mention something as simple as a over head map and tried to make it their. Since Beta 3 there has been a mass turn around in the vibe of the game, If anything it looks more like Star Wars Galaxies "World" and Deep Economy (Before the game imploded) and the smooth game play of WoW. I can't wait.

Now that these "Psycho's" have been chased out or shut up by some of the newer Beta Testers that aren't going bald living in their mothers basements, The developers are getting and responding to some real feed back!

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Originally posted by Sacrificiall

The reason is because the psychopath hard core old school EQ original fan base sunk their claws into it, Tried to make it their own, chased anyone out of Beta that would even mention something as simple as a over head map and tried to make it their. Since Beta 3 there has been a mass turn around in the vibe of the game, If anything it looks more like Star Wars Galaxies "World" and Deep Economy (Before the game imploded) and the smooth game play of WoW. I can't wait.

Now that these "Psycho's" have been chased out or shut up by some of the newer Beta Testers that aren't going bald living in their mothers basements, The developers are getting and responding to some real feed back!

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Plus SOE is leaving the development bizz, The realise they suck so they are just going to take the route of Publishing & Hosting"...Problem is so many people hate them so much that the second they see SOE they say NOOOO!!!!!!...

Look, I hate f'n Walmart, but I like Oreo's....I'm not going to refuse to buy Oreo's because I have to go to Walmart to get them!

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Originally posted by Sacrificiall

Plus SOE is leaving the development bizz, The realise they suck so they are just going to take the route of Publishing & Hosting"...Problem is so many people hate them so much that the second they see SOE they say NOOOO!!!!!!...

Look, I hate f'n Walmart, but I like Oreo's....I'm not going to refuse to buy Oreo's because I have to go to Walmart to get them!

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Originally posted by CylusSigil

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Originally posted by Anofalye

Considering how you answer to the "non-raiding community" needs...(which is 95% of the community)

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Don't bother attempting to goad me, Anofayle.  Whether you want to believe it or not, 80% of the content will be grouping and soloing and we're definatley concentrating on the grouping element.

And yes, I see where you are coming from when you state that raiding rewards should not translate back to group encounters.  Discussing an elegant solution to that situation is something that I'd be more than happy to discuss over lunch or a beer but I refuse to do it in this medium.  Whatever I'd say would automatically reflect on Sigil, for good or ill, regardless of the fact that they'd just be my personal opinions. 

Also, that's just my personal choice and not some rule set forth by Sigil to avoid misinformation and malcontent; so feel free to keep their conspiracy theories to yourselves

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Originally posted by Maxzius

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Originally posted by CylusSigil

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Originally posted by Anofalye

Considering how you answer to the "non-raiding community" needs...(which is 95% of the community)

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Don't bother attempting to goad me, Anofayle.  Whether you want to believe it or not, 80% of the content will be grouping and soloing and we're definatley concentrating on the grouping element.

And yes, I see where you are coming from when you state that raiding rewards should not translate back to group encounters.  Discussing an elegant solution to that situation is something that I'd be more than happy to discuss over lunch or a beer but I refuse to do it in this medium.  Whatever I'd say would automatically reflect on Sigil, for good or ill, regardless of the fact that they'd just be my personal opinions. 

Also, that's just my personal choice and not some rule set forth by Sigil to avoid misinformation and malcontent; so feel free to keep their conspiracy theories to yourselves

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So, I'll need to raid in order to get the other 20% of my gear?



Sorry if this has been answered 5 million times already, getting sick of Mythic and just looking into some other games.  omw to the website now...

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Originally posted by Sacrificiall

Plus SOE is leaving the development bizz, The realise they suck so they are just going to take the route of Publishing & Hosting"...Problem is so many people hate them so much that the second they see SOE they say NOOOO!!!!!!...

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SOE is NOT leaving the development bizz. From John Smedley's blog on August 1st: "We have four diverse MMO titles in internal development" (source: http://stationblog.wordpress.com/2006/08/01/this-and-that/). They have a co-marketing relationship with Sigil. They are developing an MMO for DC Comics.

It would make perfect business sense for SOE to buy out Sigil completely 12 to 18 months from now. And then SOE can launch an New Game Enhancement for Vanguard. Whoopee! :)

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Originally posted by jonaku

Vanguard has attracted hordes of criticism, attacks and "hate" and the game is not even out of beta. This is quite unprecedented for a game in development to attract so much negative publicity so organically. Go take a gander at the message boards here on MMORPG.com that deal with other games in development like Gods&Heroes, Age of Conan, Huxley, Hero's Journey, Star Trek Online, Tabula Rasa, Warhammer Online... you won't see even one tenth of the hate that you see here in the Vanguard forum.

(1) Why is Vanguard hated by so many people and what lessons can be learned from this experience?

(2) To what degree is this the fault of the devs, its PR department or just a unique anomaly in the MMO gaming industry? 

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Actually, there isn't.  Rather, there are less than 6 or so people who post a LOT on these boards with flat out misinformation on a campaign to mislead people about the game.  You're one of them and have been caught flat out lying about the game.  And obviously, you'd like to believe you've corrupted this board into believing a bunch of mistruths and negativity regarding Vanguard.  Enjoy your delusions.

That said, it is to some degree the fault of our PR that until recently we've allowed people like you to spew this stuff all over this board.  But that's come to and end.  The information is there, including on this board, and the ultra-minority of you who apparently have nothing else to do but post lies and misinformation about the game have recently been called to task.  Your misinformation has been answered with information.

Btw, I have used strong language in this post -- Jonaku has been caught on this board lying -- he posts things that he knows aren't true, and he's even posted references to other posts to support his argument that he himself contributed the misinformation to.  I don't mind skeptics.  I don't mind criticism.  I don't mind doubt and a we'll wait and see attitude.  I don't even mind a "I don't believe you and won't until I see otherwise."  But look at this very thread -- it was created by one of the chief ministers of misinformation when it comes to Vanguard, trying to come across as confused as to why there is so much negativity.  The irony is almost hiliarious.  Lies won't stand -- they will be answered with actual information.  You can believe it or not, you can like it or not, but it's here now (and was before, though to a a lesser degree, and I thank very much those who before we started focusing on this board fought the good fight). 

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Originally posted by Aradune

Actually, there isn't.  Rather, there are less than 6 or so people who post a LOT on these boards with flat out misinformation on a campaign to mislead people about the game.  You're one of them and have been caught flat out lying about the game.  And obviously, you'd like to believe you've corrupted this board into believing a bunch of mistruths and negativity regarding Vanguard.  Enjoy your delusions.

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People post hate and criticism cause it's fun to talk crap on the interweb.  Perhaps it is more prevalent with Vanguard because they think that the fans will get riled up more than other Games in Development?

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Originally posted by Dabble
People post hate and criticism cause it's fun to talk crap on the interweb.  Perhaps it is more prevalent with Vanguard because they think that the fans will get riled up more than other Games in Development?

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this sums it up right here, jonaku's reaction after hearing about the soe/sigil co-publishing agreement...

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originally posted by jonaku

wow, i cant believe brad went over to the dark side. darth smed is truly a powerful jedi master.

aside from ruining my weekend, i guess i'll check out hero's journey, dark and light, warhammer online as the mmos to look forward to. vanguard is dead to me now.

and there is another.... bioware...

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as i have been saying all along, jonaku is just on some sort of anti-soe crusade and from reading that post he was once a fan....now all of a sudden vanguard sucks and he feels the need to warn people how bad it sucks?

whats really funny when you think about it is, he is doing all this trolling and spamming of the boards all because he is butthurt over soe.

there is alot of people that wont play vanguard because of soe but yet none of them troll and spam as much as he does, not even close. they give their opinion or two and make it somewhat civil.

he clearly must have been emotionally scared over something soe did to him so he feels he must troll and spam these boards with a truly relentless effort....pretty pathetic if you think about it.

sorry if this comes off as a bit harsh, i hope i don't get this post deleted but its the freaking truth and have been wanting to make a post like this for some time now...so mods, do your worst!

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Originally posted by baphamet

as i have been saying all along, jonaku is just on some sort of anti-soe crusade and from reading that post he was once a fan....now all of a sudden vanguard sucks and he feels the need to warn people how bad it sucks?

whats really funny when you think about it is, he is doing all this trolling and spamming of the boards all because he is butthurt over soe.

there is alot of people that wont play vanguard because of soe but yet none of them troll and spam as much as he does, not even close. they give their opinion or two and make it somewhat civil.

he clearly must have been emotionally scared over something soe did to him so he feels he must troll and spam these boards with a truly relentless effort....pretty pathetic if you think about it.

sorry if this comes off as a bit harsh, i hope i don't get this post deleted but its the freaking truth and have been wanting to make a post like this for some time now...so mods, do your worst!

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No, your conclusion is false.  Jonaku began bashing Vanguard LONG before SOE got involved.  He has been bashing Vanguard since January 2005 mainly because it does not intend to be a solo haven like WoW.  Perhaps SOE scarred him enough to put him on an antigrouping crusade, but the center is not about SOE.  There is something deeper, which is sad because Sigil really gave him a chance.

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Originally posted by jonaku

It would make perfect business sense for SOE to buy out Sigil completely 12 to 18 months from now. And then SOE can launch an New Game Enhancement for Vanguard. Whoopee! :)

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Originally posted by Saintly

No, your conclusion is false.  Jonaku began bashing Vanguard LONG before SOE got involved.  He has been bashing Vanguard since January 2005 mainly because it does not intend to be a solo haven like WoW.  Perhaps SOE scarred him enough to put him on an antigrouping crusade, but the center is not about SOE.  There is something deeper, which is sad because Sigil really gave him a chance.

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umm no actually his posting history speaks for itself, he never even posted in this forum until that announcement and as you can see from the quote he was once a fan or at least it seems like it.

if he was bashing vanguard on another site before that then great, I'm just referring to this website only because i have never seen him post anywhere els.