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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Forum » General Discussion raquo; Why So Much Criticism Against Vanguard?
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Vanguard has attracted hordes of criticism, attacks and "hate" and the game is not even out of beta. This is quite unprecedented for a game in development to attract so much negative publicity so organically. Go take a gander at the message boards here on MMORPG.com that deal with other games in development like Gods&Heroes, Age of Conan, Huxley, Hero's Journey, Star Trek Online, Tabula Rasa, Warhammer Online... you won't see even one tenth of the hate that you see here in the Vanguard forum. (1) Why is Vanguard hated by so many people and what lessons can be learned from this experience? (2) To what degree is this the fault of the devs, its PR department or just a unique anomaly in the MMO gaming industry? |
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9/05/06 2:15:09 PM#2
IT'S YOU!!! YOU SPAM THESE FORUMS WITH ATTACKS!!! I've NEVER seen such a small amount of poeple, especially you, make such a big stink about a game 6 months from release... WE GET IT.... YOU DON'T LIKE IT.... SO WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE??? Criticize & discuss all you want, but please STOP constantly spamming us with VSoH hate!!! PLEASE!!!! I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!! In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
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9/05/06 2:17:26 PM#3
Amen |
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Tamalan
 Novice Member
Joined: 11/13/04
Certainty of death. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for? |
9/05/06 2:18:19 PM#4
99.9% of the hate posts are started by you Jonaku. |
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9/05/06 2:18:24 PM#5
I chalk it up to ignorance.... Only an ignorant person would criticize the end product before it even exists. Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture. |
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9/05/06 2:22:11 PM#6
Jonaku makes me chuckle :) But it's not just him. You must admit, there *is* a lot of hate against this game. To answer Jonaku's question, I think it's because of: (a) The SOE co-publishing relationship (b) Problems that had in beta 2 that turned a lot of people off (which is why they only had 100 people playing), and (c) The hard core game mechanics (XP loss, no GPS in maps, corpse runs, long travel times, long XP curves, little solo content) I think that would about cover it, correct? |
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9/05/06 2:27:45 PM#7
Jonaku makes me chuckle :) But it's not just him. You must admit, there *is* a lot of hate against this game. There is a fair amount, but these folks are spamming hate over & over... there are for more folks that are not haters... That said, 5 of the top 7 posts are hate posts by him... I think I'm pretty dead on.... I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!! In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
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9/05/06 2:57:26 PM#8
It's mostly from people that "hate" EQ, and the fact that SOE's name is now somewhat involved. A lot of the people who at once loved EQ got burnt after certain expansions in which we all know started to make the game go downhill. Like someone already said before, yes it's mostly ignorance, and people spewing hate because they hate what happened in EQ1 and dealing with SOE. It won't matter though, publicity whether good or bad will prove to be a good thing in the end. They will sell lots of copies, and whether they will be a MMO that'll last awhile we will have to see how the game develops once it hits retail. Nobody here right now knows jack about how the game is going to be, and whether it'll be successful or not. So all the hate talks and "criticism" are really people who are simply anti-Everquest. EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR |
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9/05/06 3:53:29 PM#9
1. I don't think it is hate directed towards the game. I think you see 2 types of negative posts. Some of them are negative about the hardcore game design that successful MMOs have moved away from and that many people thought were dead broken and discarded game mechanics that most designers would never-ever consider adding to a new IP if they wanted to be successful. The fact that Vanguard is using these hardcore game mechanics is really a break from that trend and is interesting. The other negative posts are from people who have seen it at tradeshows and are understandably upset with parts of the game like the combat animations, the graphics (they really sucked at E3 - nothing like the screenshots you can see online), and beta-testers that are upset with the lack of content and all the broken systems. So you have one group that is railing against unpopular game design and another group that is complaining about a product that is surprisingly bad (so far - there is still a long beta before release). 2. Really this is a good thing for Vanguard. They have people talking and that is super important. Most games that are getting such negative reports wouldn't have been able to create this much buzz. There may be some truth to the idea that there is no such thing as bad publicity. Look at the G&H forums, they won more awards at E3 than any other MMORPG, but yet their board is completely dead compared to the vanguard forums because people don't have anything controversial to say about a game that looks like it will be fun. Simply going in and saying, "This is awesome." isn't realy a conversation starter. :) |
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9/05/06 4:20:05 PM#10
To put it succintly this game appears to be completely catass. Catass games like EQ are for complete geeks, complete geeks are for making fun and ridiculing. Just like EQ raiders were ridiculed by normal people.
That may sound harsh or intolerant, but well that is the way it is. What you are seeing now is what many people actually thought of EQ back in the day. |
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9/05/06 4:56:36 PM#11
Jonaku makes me chuckle :) But it's not just him. You must admit, there *is* a lot of hate against this game. To answer Jonaku's question, I think it's because of: (a) The SOE co-publishing relationship (b) Problems that had in beta 2 that turned a lot of people off (which is why they only had 100 people playing), and (c) The hard core game mechanics (XP loss, no GPS in maps, corpse runs, long travel times, long XP curves, little solo content) I think that would about cover it, correct? In fairness, beta 2 didnt invite a mass quantity of people. I dont know the exact #, but it wasnt many. They had 100 on at any given time. You cant expect everyone to be on every single minute of the day :) Also, it's true the mechanics are touted as being a bit more hardcore, but i would reserve judgement on this till we get to play the game. 1) Things change in beta based on player feedback and there's been A LOT of player feedback and 2) there are a lot of other interesting systems in game that will alleviate many of the perceived hardcore-ness of some of the things you listed. |
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9/05/06 5:09:21 PM#12
1. No casual player wants to see an a nice game for everyone succeed b/c it would pave the way to return to the good old days when MMORPGs were actually fun, and don't feel like single player games with chat rooms. 2. the PR department has done pretty good compared to alot of others out there. By not releasing alot of info they have made alot of people eager. None of the negative responses have been thrown out there b/c of what the Dev's have done... Most of it is b/c of what the Devs did way back in the day with EQ. Many people are scared of VG being taken over by SoE and getting lied to by the dev team. Brad has responded to this exact thing and by saying that they have learned from their mistakes. I don't think they will do the same thing again. Most of the other negatives really don't work to well: Animations... the Devs repeatidly say they will fix it later (beta 4) so that is nothing to worry about. Old school/hardcore style. Just b/c it has some similarities doesn't mean its going to work exactly the same. Old school and hardcore are both false, maybe if people took the time to actually read everything the game is about then they would release that it is false. Boreing: I'm sure it was in beta 2, there wasn't alot of content and so i'm sure it got boreing quick (they were working on the systems first, then once that was ready then they could add content), now however, people say that most people playing in beta 3 are really enjoying it. The people who aren't are probably not the type of people meant to play an MMO (just like some people are not meant to play football). These are my answers to your questions. Everything i've said is from something i've read/heard which means that although it may be false, it has just as much prove and reliablitity as anything you say, repeat, or hear.
Current MMO of interest: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes |
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Trand
 Novice Member
Joined: 7/15/04
"Once we accept our limits, we go beyond them." Albert Einstein |
9/05/06 5:13:20 PM#13
Well alot of negative posts seem to be started by you...................... so I guess the question is why don't you like the game?
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9/05/06 5:23:13 PM#14
Dont you remember what Anarchy Online's number one Fan Site was called ? Anyone ? AOBasher.com and the stuff in these forums is like a love fest in comparison. Not to mention the fact that bashing online games in development was already old after UO and EQ. The youth of today *sigh* +-+-+-+-+-+ |
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9/05/06 5:24:29 PM#15
yeah most of the criticism is coming from the people that are on the "anti-soe crusade" as soon as they heard that soe was involved all of a sudden everything about vanguard sucks now. but also alot of it has to do with vanguard being one of if not the most anticipated mmorpg to be released next year. people just don't spend all their free time bashing one particular game because they are not interested, they are either indeed interested or (like in Jonaku case) just demand attention and bring no real argument of their own to the table. yeah people have a right to be concerned if they will like vanguard, and judging from all the attention vanguard gets it is not a bad thing that vanguard gets so much attention good or bad. |
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9/06/06 2:37:02 AM#16
If you remember back to 1999, before the release of EverQuest, most of the gaming press, especially game devs of other games, said that games like EQ had not future, that the industry wassn't ready like trying to stop EverQuest's realease, today we have to talk about EvereQuest as success and as 7 years old game. I think there's a little of fear from the indutry, basically because SIGIL is going to bring back aspects tha others devs considered obsolet and looks like those aspects are really needed in the industry. As the time comes, Vanguard looks better and better, we just have to wait. Depending of how the P.R. and marketing from SOE and SIGIL manage the good and criticims and use it as promotion, they can really receive better results than the expected at realease. Dimitrio Darkblade |
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Novalar
Novice Member
Joined: 9/29/04
Have played (no particular order!) - WoW, AC1, UO, Horizons to name a few... |
9/06/06 5:40:11 AM#17
A lack of understanding is the problem. That or a personal hatred of SOE! I known they screwed SWG into the ground (that was a really big disappoinment) but people should not tarnish SIGIL's name because of their association with SOE. I know I will not. The more I read on Vanguard the more I like - I have even found a guild before release. First itme I have ever down that! Currently Playing:- nothing |
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9/06/06 5:44:18 AM#18
I don't hold high hopes for vanguard, and not because I hate SOE. Now I played Everquest1 for 5 years, and have played EQ2 a little bit. When I look at the Vanguard screenshots, it just looks too much like the original Everquest to me. Obviously I can only go by the small number of screenshots we've seen, but the game seems rather similar atleast to someone who played EQ alot. I just don't think we need another iteration of Everquest. "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000 |
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9/06/06 6:21:19 AM#19
(1) The game promises to be the 3rd generation of mmo's. A revolution. The greatest thing to ever happen in the mmo market. When it's infact just the same old thing with shiny graphics and a few different takes on certain things. I mean it's pretty clear to everyone that this isn't a revolution, not 3rd generation. But the devs still keep saying it. Vanguard is kinda like World of Warcraft, all the old things all over again, but with a slightly different flavour and some small additions. I personally don't hate it, and I don't think many others do either. But if you look at the promises and what it delivers some people feel that what the dev team says isn't true. And don't come with the it's still in Beta, 6 months to release arguments. The major features in this game are locked down, and they aren't going to change much from now. It will be tweaked, bugs will be fixed and the game will be optimized. But the core features, the gameplay and the world are pretty much going to stay the same. (2) If you look at (1) you see that I think it's the dev's fault. I believe that they don't tell the truth about what the game really is. They keep hyping the 3rd generation bla bla, when all the info, screens and movies they release is all the old stuff all over again. And it's not unique at all. This happens to all games. |
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9/06/06 7:08:36 AM#20
Several reasons. 1. Not all, but a large number of the Vanguard fans have been extremely obnoxious with their silly mantra that playing this game somehow makes them "elite", and everyone else is some kind of noob who should go play WoW. With a *cough* community like that, expect the game to get some heat. In other words, if you can't take it don't dish it out. 2. At lot of us, myself included, were really looking forward to this game, only to realize that it isn't as represented. So there is a lot of frustration of what could have been versus what is. Our Knight in shining armor turned out to be a Fuller brush salesman. 3. SOE EQ1, EQ2, SWG, GW, CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War, and a slew of free trials and beta tests |
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