Hi all,

Despite some controversy and debate, my releasing actual beta 3 gameplay focused shots from the upcoming Massively Multiplayer Game Vanguard: Saga of Heroes (check out both www.vanguardsoh.com and www.joinvanguard.com for more information, more varied screenshots, active message boards, and a detailed FAQ, plus www.sigil.com to find out more about our company and pedigree making these games) at various sites the other day generated a lot of talk and interest and questions. To many MMOG players, you already know about Vanguard and are either looking forward to it, or at least looking forward to getting into beta or checking out the game being played by someone else in beta, or perhaps even waiting to see how launch goes. To many other MMOG gamers, especially long time gamers, you're already active on our boards and looking forward to the game. But then to many other MMOG gamers, there's a lot of about Vanguard you don't know about -- you might have heard that it's an old style game, or only for hard core players, or that it's too challenging and tedious. Or, on the other hand, you may be playing in one of the current MMOGs and are looking for something new on the horizon. Or both. Our message and our efforts, whether releasing a series of screenshots or doing interviews in major magazines is one and the same: this game was likely made for someone just like you and it's our job to get this message out, let you know about this game, and to dispel any inaccurate rumors you may have heard (for example, no, Vanguard is NOT a hard core raiding only game by any stretch of the means).

No matter who you are, we want to reach out to you and pique your interest in the game because we are confident it's going to change the face of massively multiplayer online gaming next year. A huge marketing and PR campaign has just begun with our co-publishers, Sony Online Entertainment. But the unique thing about Vanguard is that Sigil, a company founded by many of the original makers of EverQuest and other older MMOGs is that we are working together with SOE and have retained creative control over the project. Our aim, quite simply, is to offer an alternative to an online gaming genre that is dominated by a few very large and quite excellent games right now (Final Fantasy XI and World of Warcraft come to mind). Why? Because life, especially entertainment, is about choices. And this game being an alternative to the MMOGs you may be currently enjoying is also by no means is an indication that Vanguard is for a niche crowd -- it contains content and quests and adventures for all sorts of people -- casual players, 'core' players, and even those who spend a lot of time at these games raiding in large groups -- we're all about making a world that is inclusive, *not* exclusive. Vanguard offers a freedom that players have never before experienced -- you have a wide variety of races and classes to choose from, unparalleled capability to customize your character, multiple ways of advancing your character, be it traditional adventuring, to an exciting system of harvesting and crafting, to a brand new spin on gameplay called Diplomacy where you use your wits and not your sword to decide the outcome of events and make your mark on the world.

And on top of all of this, the world itself is simply incredible and awaiting all sorts of people who want to be part of a living, breathing, virtual environment, in which you can own your own house, ride or sail a ship anywhere you can see, and even one day perhaps fly through the clouds on the back of a dragon to the destination of *your* choice. There are virtually no limitations in Vanguard -- you get what you put into it and so much more. The world of Telon, which is where Vanguard takes place, is literally massive -- but it's not just big for the sake of being big, rather it's full of variety and laid out in a seamlesss environment where if you can see an intriguing location miles into the distance, or simply just a mountaintop off in some direction, you can most likely always get there -- travel in Vanguard has meaning.

And not only that, we've expanded upon the traditional High Fantasy we all love and included not just one continent with familiar Western European, Tokieneque and Arthurian settings, but also another continent that draws from the tales of Arabian Nights, full of pyramids, hanging gardens, hidden jungles filled with exotic intrigue -- virtually the entirety of Persian, Egyptian, and other middle eastern mythology. But then we didn't stop there either -- a third continent, this time with an Oriental twist forms a vast archipelago of islands. Picture yourself a thief or a ninja, or even merchant or pirate, sailing from one isle to the next, discovering new lands and even lost empires swallowed whole long ago by the sea.

And I promise you, I've given you but a taste of what is in store for you this Winter -- there's simply *so* much more -- far, far too much to cover here. I do hope you check out our web sites and other resources, with more and more information being revealed virtually every day. Head to www.joinvanguard.com to find out more about the game as well as www.vanguardsoh.com where again there are movies, screenshots, a detailed FAQ to answer your many questions about the game, as well as a very active message board already with well over 100,000 members.

But enough of an introduction filled with only words. Check out these web sites, visit our host of affiliate web sites dedicated to this highly anticipated game. And in the meantime, please accept this first tiny piece -- a small and focused taste of the game. While we've been releasing screenshots, movies, and information about Vanguard for quite some time now, we're finally at the point where we've just entered our third and first truly major phase of beta testing, where hundreds of testers are helping us tune and tweak this massive endeavor. What almost 100 people have poured their hearts and souls into for over four years is about ready to release! So please take a moment to check out the following screenshots taken from this beta, involving actual beta testers, and then if anything catches your eye whatsoever, do some more digging -- information on the game is not hard to find and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised both with the information out there already as well as with our plans to whet your appetite over the next several months!

You may have already read articles about Vanguard, or seen our ads in the major game publications that are already out. You may have already picked up a copy of the Computer Games magazine with Vanguard as its cover story a few months back. Know that this is just the beginning of a huge outreach by Sigil and SOE that is now beginning to come into full swing. You'll see more articles, ads, and online coverage. You'll hear more about the exciting freedoms, opportunities, and exciting adventures Vanguard brings to massively multiplayer games, many for the first time ever and many of which have been kept under wraps until now.

But at Sigil we know that it's just as important, if not more so, to reach out to the community ourselves and support you all directly. This is why, in addition to this more formal massive marketing campaign that is just now beginning, that is it just as important to also reach out to various MMOG oriented fan sites, to support them and provide them with information, to answer *your* questions and to receive answers by people actually working on the game..

So please take a look at this set of screenshots taken just tonight from our beta test. These in particular focus on one group of testers and future players who were having a blast fighting their way though the overland region called the Temple of Daliuk in the Arabian Nights themed continent called Qalia.

This is a low-mid level outdoor (with some indoor) massive dungeon, designed to accommodate many groups. It is live on Beta 3, which is from where these pictures were taken. The players are real, although I step in a bit with Aradune, my GM character who is also a high level ranger, and intervene here and there. But the vast majority of what you see is the real game -- in fact, you'll see one of the testers dead body that was quickly recovered after a minor setback.

You'll see a few different NPCs, a vast area, lots of spells and abilities going off, several different races and classes, all working together. None of this was choreographed, however. Rather, from my and others at Sigil's standpoint, we're going to spend some time periodically throughout beta 3 and beta 4, until we release the NDA covering the game, and release actual beta footage of real beta players, both in the form of screenshots and movies.

This will not preclude our regular release of screenshots to affiliate sites, other sites, major sites, or any other PR or Marketing plan. I bring these to you (and the other sites who receive shots from this series) because I know the audience here and elsewhere often wants to see the real game and what it's all really about. You want a view of the real game play, and you've got it. And this is only the first of several series!

We are still working on movies which will show a lot more of the game. We are still in beta, so you will find flaws here and there because while the game is close to finish, it still has several months ahead of it for us to wrap things up and polish the game for general release. And then, even after release, we'll be updating the game, keeping it fresh, growing the world, much of which you will download automatically before logging on. But from what I see here, you get a pretty cool glimpse into what people are experiencing in Vanguard beta right now, with well over 500 people online at any given time. And that number is growing daily -- we're going to need thousands of people to test what is more than a game but actually a living virtual world.

So please keep in mind again that the series here is all about one area, fighting various mobs outside the Temple of Dailuk -- again, a low-mid level huge mostly outdoor dungeon in Qalia. And this is very much the Qalia you've probably heard about -- it's a lost temple in the middle of a vast desert. Some of the shots show beautiful vistas, and there are a variety of points of interest, but the focus here is not on showing off a variety of themes or locations, but rather a group of 'core' gamers having a blast, working together as a team, playing in this one area. Again, to see more variety, I encourage you to head to the sites I listed above and dig into the game in more detail should this series of shots catch your attention.

Movies are still coming, shots from other areas still on their way, more about gameplay, the interface, etc.. Most of it is coming through the more conventional PR and Marketing (e.g. released to major online sites and publications) plan I referred to above. So consider this series and those shots found on other sites to be only a part of Sigil's solemn commitment to keep in mind the fan site, the MMOG discussion site, the guilds' sites, etc. in mind and to never forget that community is what makes these games, and communities are filled with individuals -- we are creating a service here and take that service very seriously. While we're just starting to 'go big' with marketing for this game and have some incredible plans we never want to forget the smaller sites or the more focused sites either.

Ask questions, criticize, note that we're not done, remind us we need to get movies out more frequently, take issue with it being a series of shots all from the same location -- we value your opinions and feedback, here, on our official message boards, or anywhere.

Overall, though, please enjoy them, which I think most of you will -- it's a pleasure to share here this glimpse into an incredible new MMOG coming your way this Winter. Here is Series One of the battle for the Temple of Daliuk -- look for several more series of the Temple in the next day or so, and the more series covering different areas after that (in the following weeks).

Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Original Producer & Co-Designer, EverQuest

Originally posted here:

http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1387403#post1387403

This is the only game on the market, of the hundreds in development, where the lead Dev has to write an essay to convince people that contrary to what they have heard (from years of posts on Sigil's own boards), the game really is for them and not just for 133t dudes. That in itself speaks volumes.

The fact of the matter is, Brad can say this and write this and take out advertisements about this but it doesn't change his core belief, and his Vision (tm), that Vanguard is meant to be enjoyed by people who play video games 10+ hours a day, and everyone else is just there to pay the bills and admire the "elite." The "bleeding edge", he calls them.

I don't fault Sigil for making a game for people who play every day 24/7. That's fine. I do blame Sigil for trying to dupe people into believing that's not what the game is about.

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Originally posted by Amathe

This is the only game on the market, of the hundreds in development, where the lead Dev has to write an essay to convince people that contrary to what they have heard (from years of posts on Sigil's own boards), the game really is for them and not just for 133t dudes. That in itself speaks volumes.

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Care to say what you are basing your logic on amathe?

By all info released thus far there are several mechs in place to favor a variety of playstyles, and the content is 20% solo, 20% raid, 60% group with a rather massive variety of quests (in thousands) and dungeons.

While I'm sure its possible that all the devs are great liers and that all the "official info" is completely made up, why go through the trouble?  What would they gain?

Perhaps its more likely that many people were expecting a sequal to what EQ1 became AKA EverRaid (tm) and thus speculated along those lines?  They read, "death penalties and corpse runs" and felt that = "hard core only"

Its actually odd that you think this way since there was a level of (and still is) a bit of backlash and concern on the main website that VGSOH will be too user friendly (they are worried about it being easier like WOW etc.).

Based on all the official released info, the truth is more somewhere in the middle, there does exist very very difficult content, and there exists quick and easy content, there is solo content, group content, raid content.  The dev's idea of a core player is someone who plays when/if they have spare time (after family,job,responcibility, hobby, etc.) durring the weak, and hits the dungeons etc. on the weekend.

But I suppose you already knew that?
Oh I forgot, all the devs are liers and not to be trusted so I guess it doesn't matter?

In that case why seriously bother looking forward to anything?  Why bother reading?  In fact, if you really believe what you wrote...what could possible compel you to visit this forum at all? 

The "essay" as you call it is pretty common with sigil devs, its this weird thing called "direct community interaction".  Its a foreign concept for a lot of MMOs.  Go to the main site or silky venom and check the "dev tracker" you'll find that this "direct community interaction" is quite common for sigil.  This is their baby and they are rather proud of how its turning out. 

The real question is, what is your issue Amathe?

Im something of a hardcore player, i play allot (more then i should) so idc really.

BUT its the language that Brad tends to use, "this is the n00b area".

I am pretty sure Brad thinks hes "Uber". That hes apart of that crowd... w/e that is lol.

I just know 1 thing, if the game is good... me and my guild will not be on the same server as SV. I dont want to be in a high end guild camping grounds against a guild who has the ceo in it lol.

My old EQ guild had a GM in it, altho way way back then it was neat but it was wrong. I think the place GMs have is fixing things and events. You wana know what im talking about?

ULTIMA ONLINE

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Originally posted by wyzwun

 1 thing, if the game is good... me and my guild will not be on the same server as SV. I dont want to be in a high end guild camping grounds against a guild who has the ceo in it lol.

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I hear ya.  While they have a lot of mechs in place to prevent some of the problems associated with too much competition in high level dungeons you know there are still going to be some guilds at the same teir racing each other to get to the mob first.  You can't help but feel at a disadvantage if the guild you're competing with has a GM.  ;)

On the flip side I can hardly fault the devs for wanting to play their own game...it would be kind of silly if they didn't.  :D

My wife and I don't have the time to play like we used to so we won't be anywhere close to competing with top end guilds, for us it won't matter much.  We'll prolly give one of the PVP ruleset servers a try too. 

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Originally posted by solymnar

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Originally posted by wyzwun

 1 thing, if the game is good... me and my guild will not be on the same server as SV. I dont want to be in a high end guild camping grounds against a guild who has the ceo in it lol.

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I hear ya.  While they have a lot of mechs in place to prevent some of the problems associated with too much competition in high level dungeons you know there are still going to be some guilds at the same teir racing each other to get to the mob first.  You can't help but feel at a disadvantage if the guild you're competing with has a GM.  ;)

On the flip side I can hardly fault the devs for wanting to play their own game...it would be kind of silly if they didn't.  :D

My wife and I don't have the time to play like we used to so we won't be anywhere close to competing with top end guilds, for us it won't matter much.  We'll prolly give one of the PVP ruleset servers a try too. 

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I feel you have to design PVP as a core element of your game, altho i hear EQ2 pvp is decent which kinda breaks my logic lol. Otherwise, i will continue to make an ass out of myself and say that i dont think it works well when you make a PVE game and then just change the 1's and 0's and call it PvP.

You look at a game like AoC and thats PVP. that being said, i enjoy the PVE side of mmos and if i want to kill someone i rather use my AK-47 in Militia then my missle of magic spell... lol

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Originally posted by wyzwun

I feel you have to design PVP as a core element of your game, altho i hear EQ2 pvp is decent which kinda breaks my logic lol. Otherwise, i will continue to make an ass out of myself and say that i dont think it works well when you make a PVE game and then just change the 1's and 0's and call it PvP.

You look at a game like AoC and thats PVP. that being said, i enjoy the PVE side of mmos and if i want to kill someone i rather use my AK-47 in Militia then my missle of magic spell... lol

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There is something fundamentally pleasing about the pull of an automatic weapon. 

Supposedly the devs say they've been planning to do a few different PVP servers form the start.  How well they work remains to be seen of course but they will have at least one at launch.

I've heard a lot of people say that overall most of the changes to EQ2 have been pretty good including some RL friends of mine.  But I ust can't bring myself to go back to it yet.  If VG ends up dissapointing in beta 5, along with aion, SUN, godsnheroes, etc. we'll (wife n I) prolly give it a second go.  My old guild still plays it.

In regards to VG and PVP...I dunno...something in me when I hear "player ships" + "PVP" gets into pirate/swashbuckler mode.  So naturally I get curious.  ;)

According to brad they plan to (at some point over the next 5 years so don't hold your breath) add fully loaded naval combat.

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Originally posted by Amathe
This is the only game on the market, of the hundreds in development, where the lead Dev has to write an essay to convince people that contrary to what they have heard (from years of posts on Sigil's own boards), the game really is for them and not just for 133t dudes. That in itself speaks volumes.

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or....could it be all the misinformation that the skeptics spread about vanguard that brad feels he needs to clear up? people have a right to their own opinion of vanguard but alot of people just go off assuming things then claiming that is how vanguard will be....alot of it is people assuming that since eq had it vanguard will have it as well.

now ask yourself this, what is worse? brad writing posts to try and clear things up for people that know nothing about what vanguard is or going to be like? or other people biased against vanguard convincing those same people of stuff that isn't even true about vanguard?

now don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is all not true, but i read posts every single day where people spread misinformation regarding vanguard because they either assume it to be true or heard if from another source that assumed the same thing.

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or....could it be all the misinformation that the skeptics spread about vanguard that brad feels he needs to clear up? people have a right to their own opinion of vanguard but alot of people just go off assuming things then claiming that is how vanguard will be....alot of it is people assuming that since eq had it vanguard will have it as well.

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Originally posted by wyzwun

I just know 1 thing, if the game is good... me and my guild will not be on the same server as SV. I dont want to be in a high end guild camping grounds against a guild who has the ceo in it lol.

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Originally the guild that the devs used to communicate between themselves and the beta players was called Crimson Sigil, iirc.  Eventually, Oloh formed SV with the rest of us beta players (I wasn't at Sigil at the time) and the devs slowly moved to it for communication purposes. 

That's all we really use it for now, communication purposes; using the GM channel to talk would probably drive the poor GMs nuts  Point being, don't read too much into it; the majority of SV, including the devs, just happened to group and experience together since beta 0.  Last I checked, that's how most guilds are formed

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Originally posted by anarchyart

A**hole.

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- it contains content and quests and adventures for all sorts of people -- casual players, 'core' players, and even those who spend a lot of time at these games raiding in large groups -- we're all about making a world that is inclusive, *not* exclusive.

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He left off 'as long as you don't mind being second rate', since people who don't "spend lots of time at these games raiding in large groups" will have access to better gear than those who don't, according to his own words. If you're either a raider or don't mind being one of the peasnts raiders show of their super gear in front of, then it should be great for you!

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Originally posted by Pantastic

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- it contains content and quests and adventures for all sorts of people -- casual players, 'core' players, and even those who spend a lot of time at these games raiding in large groups -- we're all about making a world that is inclusive, *not* exclusive.

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He left off 'as long as you don't mind being second rate', since people who don't "spend lots of time at these games raiding in large groups" will have access to better gear than those who don't, according to his own words. If you're either a raider or don't mind being one of the peasnts raiders show of their super gear in front of, then it should be great for you!

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He left off 'as long as you don't mind being second rate', since people who don't "spend lots of time at these games raiding in large groups" will have access to better gear than those who don't, according to his own words. If you're either a raider or don't mind being one of the peasnts raiders show of their super gear in front of, then it should be great for you!

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He didn't leave it off, you falsely assumed it.

Top gear is aquired through high end grouping, high end raiding and high end crafting (no specific mention of if top end gear is attainable for high end diplomacy though some info indicates that this will also be true).  The gear attained will be different from the different spheres and from the raiding and grouping options but it will all be viable and functional.

The UBER gear will require help from multiple spheres, diplomacy, crafting, and adventuring (both raid and group).

If you play less you will progress through the game slower, and aquire gear slower, but still at a relatively proportional rate to someone else.

I have never played nor heard of a MMORPG where there was not some small chunk of the server population who went absolutely ballistic playing more than is sane or healthy for weeks on end and ended up with increadible gear well before others.  That is a forgone conclusion in an MMO, it doesn't make it any more or less casual friendly to non raiders. 

Yes it will take time to get gear, but you can still get high end equipment and avoid raiding.  Pant, you sound like you have issues from some other game and want to apply them here? 

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Originally posted by solymnar

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He left off 'as long as you don't mind being second rate', since people who don't "spend lots of time at these games raiding in large groups" will have access to better gear than those who don't, according to his own words. If you're either a raider or don't mind being one of the peasnts raiders show of their super gear in front of, then it should be great for you!

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He didn't leave it off, you falsely assumed it.

Top gear is aquired through high end grouping, high end raiding and high end crafting.  The UBER gear will require help from multiple spheres, diplomacy, crafting, and adventuring (both raid and group).

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You still have to raid to access SOME of the best tools for grouping.  It is you that isn't able to understand, Pan understand pretty well.

It is just as if Brad would organised a competition at school and give great prize, but only grade 4 kids can participate in an activity giving 20% of the points.  All kids welcome, but only grade 4 can access 20% of the points to get to the final stadium and reward.  Result is only grade 4 access the final prizes, leaving all non-grade 4 outside...but all welcome.  As a parent I would trash such a teacher, as a teacher I would make this other teacher life miserable for broking kids dreams.

A half truth leading to a lie is the worst someone can do, and Brad is just doing that.  Trying to falsely appeal to "casuals" and to "groupers", yet making sure they are left out of the final rewards, unable to access the BEST in what they do.

Pan understand it pretty well, you fail at logic 101.

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Originally posted by n2sooners
And I am sure you much prefer the socialist game versions where everyone gets the exact same stuff no matter how much or how little effort they put forth.

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Raiding is socialist.

A capitalist system reward INDIVIDUAL worth, not a dkp system based on attendancies.  Raiding has a 3rd party determined who achieve loot and who doesn't, which is completely independant from efficiency.

A capitalist system would be directly linked to efficiency, and raiding isn't, couldn't.

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Originally posted by Anofalye

You still have to raid to access SOME of the best tools for grouping.  It is you that isn't able to understand, Pan understand pretty well.

It is just as if Brad would organised a competition at school and give great prize, but only grade 4 kids can participate in an activity giving 20% of the points.  All kids welcome, but only grade 4 can access 20% of the points to get to the final stadium and reward.  Result is only grade 4 access the final prizes, leaving all non-grade 4 outside...but all welcome.  As a parent I would trash such a teacher, as a teacher I would make this other teacher life miserable for broking kids dreams.

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By your logic then, people who do not craft should still gain the benefits of crafting?  And those that do not partake in diplomacy should gain the benefits of it?  And those that choose to raid and not do high end group content should still get the benefits of high end group content?

No, my logic is pretty sound.  If you make all rewards identical for raiding, grouping, crafting, and diplomacy, you remove any uniqueness.  You advocate blandness in the name of being more "fair".

If I run but never weight train, I do not expect to gain a strong upper body.  If I weight train but never run, I do not expect to be able to jog up a flight of stairs and not be winded.

But more importantly, your analysis is off.  If a student wishes to push themself and take an AP course, they are rewarded with free college credit.  If a student chooses to focus their time elsewhere they may get other rewards (develope better social skills, enjoy their hobbies further, etc.).

By your logic the student who did not apply themselves to the AP course should be entitled to the same rewards simply because they want them?

I'm not sure what school you teach in, but in most cases in life you get out of something what you put into it.  If you end up really wanting a crafting reward you will have to learn crafting or buy it, the same is true for long difficult group rewards or raid rewards. (since very few items will be bind on equipe...which is another debated topic on the actual vanguard forums)

You can try to trash other people, but I recommend to teach your children and others to persue their goals to the best of their ability and not worry what color someone else's grass is.  Opportunity comes to those that make them. 

I've played MMOs and never bothered raiding in quite a few of them, oddly it never seemed to hurt how much fun I had because I was doing what I chose to do.  Funny how that works?  ;)