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Originally posted by SpiritofGame

Simply put, if you are looking for a game that you can play on E-Z Mode, Vanguard will not be it.

You should probably seek elsewhere.

Respectfully yours....

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vanguard will be the next DnL flop. they are expecting 500 k subscribers in north america. i am betting only 100 k will subscrbe. mmocharts.com agrees that subscriber numbers will be well below 500 k.

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Originally posted by dink

It will be interesting to see how many of you masochists plead for more accessability after actually playing the game. . .  and how many will just quit in frustration (after breaking their keyboards) when a corpse run turns sour 4 times in a row and you go down a level just trying to get your stuff back.

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Originally posted by Dalexith
The thing that gets me is the fact that you morons claim to not like Vanguard or claim it will fail, yet you still visit the forums. This game is still in beta for 1, for 2 get a life, for 3 what makes you the authority on how games will turn out? Oh Vanguard will fail blah blah blah shut the hell up and go do your school work little boy.

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lol this post is far to obvious, let me guess.....you are a vanguard hater and you made another account to make the fanbois look bad?

because honestly that post is just to perfect, it has all the elements of what people claim "vanboi's" are. let me guess, now jonaku or some other hater is going to come in here and say "see! t told ya so!, the vanguard community sucks!"

these forums are too funny, either way that post made me smile.

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Originally posted by PeaCee
And on the topic what killed wow. Mudflation, no pvp, raids so fun that they  make you want to gouge your eyes out

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Originally posted by jimmyman99

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Originally posted by PeaCee
And on the topic what killed wow. Mudflation, no pvp, raids so fun that they  make you want to gouge your eyes out

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....
And about your comment above, killed wow in what sense? for you? for everyone else? Maybe for you, yes, but not for everyone else seeing how WoW has what, 5-6.5 mil active players?     

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Originally posted by PeaCee
Maybe a littel side subject but still and interesting thing to think about.There are many similarties bewteen d&l, vanguard and darkfall. You can argue that lying is necesary in modern marketing, d&l took it to a new high though and the 2 other games will do the same imo.   Overhype is partialy the players fault,who belive in nonesens, but its steared by the developers/community managers. They promise features which were never to be implemented, they promise things as exotic as snowboarding yet they cant make the core game mechanics fun, or in fact playable.    Overhype is treated like religion by some. Darkfall and Vanguard are too extremely difrent games, yet their communties are almost the same. The Vision (tm) of both which evolved in the players colective minds is treated like a dogma and anyone suggesting changes(be it a player or a developer) is treated like a heretic, after recognising one an auto da fe follows. Interestingly the vision of the game has, in most cases, littel to do with the actual product the game company is offering.   One may ask why do they belive in obvious lies? Why do they belive in overhype? Beacuse its used by the community managers as a means to secure sales even of a crap game(d&l), they dont sell the actual game, but instead they sale the imagine of the game they invoked into the players minds. They make gullible players belive they are right and that if they are patient enough or devoted if you will, they will be rewarded.You can argue that lying is a necesary mechanic in modern marketing beacuse in most cases companies deliver subpar products, thus to make it more applinig they lie, they overhype. They will continue to do so, as long as people will be content with shoddy products being shoved down their throats.

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please, by all means show me a link to these alleged "lies" that sigil has made about vanguard. until then i think that is a bunch of BS regarding your comparison to Dnl and DF.

i do agree that some members of the community try and over hype vanguard but if you read alot of the posts by Dev's they do try and manage this as much as they can.

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Originally posted by baphamet

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Originally posted by PeaCee
Maybe a littel side subject but still and interesting thing to think about.There are many similarties bewteen d&l, vanguard and darkfall. You can argue that lying is necesary in modern marketing, d&l took it to a new high though and the 2 other games will do the same imo.   Overhype is partialy the players fault,who belive in nonesens, but its steared by the developers/community managers. They promise features which were never to be implemented, they promise things as exotic as snowboarding yet they cant make the core game mechanics fun, or in fact playable.    Overhype is treated like religion by some. Darkfall and Vanguard are too extremely difrent games, yet their communties are almost the same. The Vision (tm) of both which evolved in the players colective minds is treated like a dogma and anyone suggesting changes(be it a player or a developer) is treated like a heretic, after recognising one an auto da fe follows. Interestingly the vision of the game has, in most cases, littel to do with the actual product the game company is offering.   One may ask why do they belive in obvious lies? Why do they belive in overhype? Beacuse its used by the community managers as a means to secure sales even of a crap game(d&l), they dont sell the actual game, but instead they sale the imagine of the game they invoked into the players minds. They make gullible players belive they are right and that if they are patient enough or devoted if you will, they will be rewarded.You can argue that lying is a necesary mechanic in modern marketing beacuse in most cases companies deliver subpar products, thus to make it more applinig they lie, they overhype. They will continue to do so, as long as people will be content with shoddy products being shoved down their throats.

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please, by all means show me a link to these alleged "lies" that sigil has made about vanguard. until then i think that is a bunch of BS regarding your comparison to Dnl and DF.

i do agree that some members of the community try and over hype vanguard but if you read alot of the posts by Dev's they do try and manage this as much as they can.

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I've been following a lot of games recently. They all have potential; until you start to play them. They all have people who have good and bad things to say about them. A lot flame the idea; a lot flame the people; a lot flame the company. Don't get me started on people who flame companies; they all want your money, all patch constantly, and all patch badly. The upcoming games could all flop, then again they could all be blockbusters. The details around play styles when the game is released is the only telling feature as to whether the game is about turning over boxes and subscriptions or if they are in it for the long haul. Each business model has it proponents and neither is bad. It just is.

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Originally posted by Vengeful

And that is why I say very far away from the Game Play Forums and only post in the Off Topic and use the Dev Tracker.

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same here, in fact it is the only place i have posted in, in months.

W00t! First a big thanks to the many elaborate and interesting replies, no matter if agreeing or disagreeing. ^^

Sure, to a great detail it's a matter of taste what people like and what frustrates them. My tolerance towards more tediious things like corpse runs and "manual travel" (= no/few fast travel options) was always low.

Anyhow, I surely did not want to compare Vanguard to DnL, just the way DnL was hyped with over expectations on innovative features, because I think there are some good receipies for a good game, so you can't re-invent the wheel too many times again. I guess the industry has shown some concepts that work, and of course MMO gaming isn't free of trends either.

I'll give you a personal example: I play SWG for about 2 years and 3 months now, with breaks, so I wen through all the many stages of hype, success and fall of this game. When I started SWG it was pretty much a sandbox. It is likely true SWG wasn't in a much better state when it started than was DnL, which like SWG was designed as a sandbox game. A sandbox game is a game where little is given to the player on terms of quests, but  players get a great variety of possibilities but have to flesh them out by themselves. The point is: my own taste has changed. In the good old SWG days I did not need quests. I met my friends and we made the game world, much like the old Ultima Online was thought to be, thought I never played that. It is I guess no coincidence that both had Raph Koster as designer who always loved those sandbox games. I enjoyed those games at that time too, but when I returned to SWG after a long time absence, I realized for me this time was over. Now I prefer quests, things to do, like in EQ2 or WOW. My taste just has changed, and I guess that of a lot of people too.

Now things change, expectations what a game has change. Once games had no journal or no automap. But now everyone playing a solo RPG rightfully expects it as standart. I know well the old days when I played Ultima IV and wrote down all the dialogue, the quests and draw pages on pages of chequered paper with maps. I enjoyed these games in the 1980ies, but I still would not do this now again. It is my firm belief that a lot of people who have positive expectations and more difficult games like Vanguard will be quite disappointed because it is one to have a positive nostalgia (Like good EQ1 memories) and to actually experience it again years later.

Anyhow, I guess WOW had a great impact and forever changed the way people will perceive MMO's like it or not. I did not play WOW all too long, after 6 or 7 months I had enough. It was not because I had outlevelled my character. It was because WOW always totally lacked any lasting things, especially if I compare it to SWG which I still play despite all it's desasters: I have a house, I am married, I sustain a still big guild with our own player city and giuldhouse. I have my manor with tons of things from quests, crafted, whatever, which tells a story about my char. In WOW, when I log, I leave no trail. I am just a pixel character who vanishes in some tavern. WOW is totally devoid of everything lasting, and I guess thats a huge factor that bores many poeple quickly and makes them invest so much hope into Vanguard. (I still do so too.)

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Originally posted by SpiritofGame

Simply put, if you are looking for a game that you can play on E-Z Mode, Vanguard will not be it.

You should probably seek elsewhere.

Respectfully yours....

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Originally posted by Celestian

Originally posted by SpiritofGame
Simply put, if you are looking for a game that you can play on E-Z Mode, Vanguard will not be it.
You should probably seek elsewhere.
Respectfully yours....

Keep saying shit like this, the OP will be right. The game will make a thump like DnL and DD0.Your response is the typical response you see in the VG forums when anyone posts suggested tweaks. The vanbois are going to be the only ones playing it a few months after release if they keep it up.Good luck with your "core" game.

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and you think an attitude like this is any better than the "vanboi's"? you go on pure speculation and pretend it is fact and insult people because their opinion rivals your own.

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Originally posted by sebbonx
He didn't start the insults, a fanboi did, and he deserved the comeback. This game is going to flop with the nasty people playing it.

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my last post applies to you as well.