Originally posted by Amathe

Let's look at a timeline instead of just quoting Brad.

Time 1: Sigil pitches the game to Microsoft and they like the Vision (tm). They like it so much they are willing to invest many millions of dollars and fund its development over the course of many years.

Time 2: Brad and Co. work on the game for years, all the while touting the freedom MS affords them to make the game the way Sigil wants, and the harmonious relationship they enjoy.

Time 3: Game goes into closed Beta.

Time 4: Suddenly, out of the blue, Sigil needs a new financial backer and a new publisher because of alleged differences with MS about how the game should be made, and an alleged need for more control.

Think about this. What really changed? It's obvious. The beta. MS saw something in the beta that caused them to realize that this was going to be a turd. Why else would they walk away from a return on their investment as the game is approaching launch in the next six months or so? MS saw the feedback and said "fix this crap" and Brad said no and had to buy them out instead.

So the question each of you has to answer is, do you think MS are fools? Do you think they are unable to see the problems? Do you think they just hate money and walked away from something that was clearly going to be a huge success? Do you think they would have had those reservations if, as Brad likes to imply, the beta testers like the game and are raving about how great it is? You know better.

I've been a project manager / producer for a long time. I played MUD long before there were any graphics based MMO's what so ever. I am also a huge Star Wars fan... For natural reasons, I was in on SWG from the very start; closed beta. I was with it through CU, NGE and I'm still there - although I haven't actually been online for a long time.

BREAK

I played Everquest from start. Left it for various reasons, and was re-recruited to EQ2 some time back. I saw those changes from the side of those "new players" SoE seem to be wanting to recruit. I actually liked it.

BREAK

To be honest - I don't hate NGE anymore. True, I loved SWG better a long time ago, and yes I was truly, TRULY pissed off. To the point of not just posting in forums but sending mail with official letter heads, trying to head of what I considered a complete and utter strategy break down of SoE. Now though... the game is getting better again (true; much due to re-institution of old content and features). Unfortunatly, the fanabse has been killed of. There are no players left. Same thing happened to EQ2 - I loved the engine and the game (PvP was awesome, i.m.o.), but all my mates just... left. Not too fun to play then. And always, it is because SoE manages to patch away their fans by undoing and nerfing what they have considered every day life.

If SoE does get content control here, we have a problem. But we don't know about that yet, so why worry? What DOES worry me is that I fail to get hooked when I try the beta. And with the shear amount of fantasy MMORPG's that's out there, a new game REALLY needs to hook their players. From first frame. No game, no matter what, is better than its community. If there is no community, there is no MMORPG. And I doubt Vanguard will fly. If you think it will, maybe you could point me in the right direction? Where should I go to experience what in order to get hooked?
:-)

//Petter

Originally posted by Shayde

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Originally posted by thomas.hart
I had nothing to do with the beta. From what ive heard ms wanted vg to use windows vista. Sigil didnt want this so they pulled out.

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That's crap, because there is NO WAY IN HELL Vista will be done before Vanguard launches.

Originally posted by Huskarl
Give us PRE CU SWG BACK!!


I hate SOE may they forever burn in the flames of eternal damnation

omg they have killed star wars galaxies<p>

omg they have killed everquest 2<p>

omg they ha..will kill vanguard

thanks SOE for years of patching great titels into boring and weak casual player friendly grinders! "its a SOE" should be a insult.

ah and dont forget: they have their hands already in "gods & heroes". R.I.P.

Best thing you can do is not even bother to buy and pay to play Vanguard. All your going to get are  CU's and NGE's  With SOE having its hands in the game.

Look at the track record of SOE SWG screwed EQ2 screwed after CU. Planet side screwed with its version of the CU.

Your just ignorant if you think SOe won't screw Vanguard also. Now like the other games they will wait 6 months to 1 year and really  mess it up after your confortable with your characters and skills and so on.  Then you will have to relearn everything rebuy items because all your gear is now useless.

GL with Vanguard.

I'll be here to say I told you so when this comes to pass for all who think SOe won't screw it too.

Originally posted by brezel

omg they have killed star wars galaxies<p>

omg they have killed everquest 2<p>

omg they ha..will kill vanguard

thanks SOE for years of patching great titels into boring and weak casual player friendly grinders! "its a SOE" should be a insult.

 

 

ah and dont forget: they have their hands already in "gods & heroes". R.I.P.

Originally posted by Malakai
Ahh.... all the unintelligent, immature posts are now on one single, easily ignored thread .  I can understand people stating their opinion, but when people keep crying about the same dumb crap over and over for months, it gets a  little old.  Nice job mmorpg in making the forums a more friendly place for people who would like to learn more about the game's features .

okay i just recently asked what a troll was but i think i know now

mmorpg made a thread for ppl who wanted to complain without disturbing the flow of information about the game from ppl who liked it and this person came to that place just to complain about the complainers lol

now i know what a troll is

thanks malakai

Originally posted by Mandy

Best thing you can do is not even bother to buy and pay to play Vanguard. All your going to get are  CU's and NGE's  With SOE having its hands in the game.

 

Look at the track record of SOE SWG screwed EQ2 screwed after CU. Planet side screwed with its version of the CU.

Your just ignorant if you think SOe won't screw Vanguard also. Now like the other games they will wait 6 months to 1 year and really  mess it up after your confortable with your characters and skills and so on.  Then you will have to relearn everything rebuy items because all your gear is now useless.

 

GL with Vanguard.

 

I'll be here to say I told you so when this comes to pass for all who think SOe won't screw it too.

 

     

Now I have a question about this statement.

SOE is only handling the publishing side of the product correct?  If that has changed when and where can I find that info? 

I dont think SOE will be able to do much with the actual game unless its sold to them, then yes SOE may tear it up, if they havent learned from all the other flops they have done. 

Its funny because as I am starting up Vanguard now I notice that the only SOE I even see is at the beginning of the launch pad.

Originally posted by camobarge

Now I have a question about this statement.

SOE is only handling the publishing side of the product correct?  If that has changed when and where can I find that info? 

I dont think SOE will be able to do much with the actual game unless its sold to them, then yes SOE may tear it up, if they havent learned from all the other flops they have done. 

Its funny because as I am starting up Vanguard now I notice that the only SOE I even see is at the beginning of the launch pad.

Vanguard comes to gamesman here on the 8th of Feb, the pre-order early access time is useless to us.

Thanks SOE.

Originally posted by Mandy

Best thing you can do is not even bother to buy and pay to play Vanguard. All your going to get are  CU's and NGE's  With SOE having its hands in the game.

 

Look at the track record of SOE SWG screwed EQ2 screwed after CU. Planet side screwed with its version of the CU.

Your just ignorant if you think SOe won't screw Vanguard also. Now like the other games they will wait 6 months to 1 year and really  mess it up after your confortable with your characters and skills and so on.  Then you will have to relearn everything rebuy items because all your gear is now useless.

 

GL with Vanguard.

 

I'll be here to say I told you so when this comes to pass for all who think SOe won't screw it too.

 

     

If you want a game that never changes... buy CS... MMOs are supposed to change.. even drasticaly now and then.. so that ppl keep chasing that ever changing endgame.. since it keeps ppl paying and most ppl are happily grinding for that 20th version of the "ubersword of doohm".. but i guess you are a Blizzard fanboi who refuse to belive that Blizzard is the masters of F-ups... if it takes as long as 6-12 months before they change the game alot.. i would be surprised... it is called adaption to what ppl want.. and Dev's cant really listen to 20 whiners over thousands of subscribers, right?

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Originally posted by camobarge

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Originally posted by Mandy

Best thing you can do is not even bother to buy and pay to play Vanguard. All your going to get are  CU's and NGE's  With SOE having its hands in the game.
 
Look at the track record of SOE SWG screwed EQ2 screwed after CU. Planet side screwed with its version of the CU.
Your just ignorant if you think SOe won't screw Vanguard also. Now like the other games they will wait 6 months to 1 year and really  mess it up after your confortable with your characters and skills and so on.  Then you will have to relearn everything rebuy items because all your gear is now useless.
 
GL with Vanguard.
 
I'll be here to say I told you so when this comes to pass for all who think SOe won't screw it too.
 
     

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Now I have a question about this statement.
SOE is only handling the publishing side of the product correct?  If that has changed when and where can I find that info? 
I dont think SOE will be able to do much with the actual game unless its sold to them, then yes SOE may tear it up, if they havent learned from all the other flops they have done. 
Its funny because as I am starting up Vanguard now I notice that the only SOE I even see is at the beginning of the launch pad.

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Part about what soe involment is um either understated or over stated but ...

As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement,SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support-- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOE’s Station Access™ subscription plan. Station Access allows players to enjoy all of SOE’s MMO titles for one low monthly price.

from http://www.sigilgames.com/sonypressrelease.html

also from http://forums.vanguardsoh.com/showthread.php?t=88693&page=6

Quote:
Originally Posted by erentil0 View Post
Just heard that SOE has lent Sigil several of its devs from the EQ2 team for a 6-8 month assignment. Wondering what everyone thinks about this and whether it bodes good or bad for Vanguard.

SOE, at our request, has sent some designers and artists up our way to make Vanguard even better. That's it. We appreciate it very much, and they are working just like Sigil people are working under Sigil's schedule and management. I hope there are no conspiracy theories about this. It's as simple as that.

We also hired a beta tester too. The more help the better.

thanks all,
__________________
Brad McQuaid
CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Exec. Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.

It would be a cold day in hell when brad would be drunk enough to hand over control of this game to SOE.  He knows what they do to his games, look what they did to EQ.

SOE is just publishing the game.  As long as it stays that way, its fine, I'm sure that Brad is in no mood to allow them to mess around with the game.  If they do get involved in the actual game design though, you can pretty much put VG next to the zapper (see gucomics for reference).

Originally posted by infrared1
Go vote at the lucasarts poll for the best version of SWG.  From 1/30/07 to 2/06/07 they will be conducting <snip>

Originally posted by smegil
Only reasion decided to play Vanguard is becuse SOE was not involved with the game  if they do get involved with the game then they can kiss my fee good by

i just hear kids and amatuers trying to discuss about things beyond them.  unless you're a representative you can't know anything about anything.  tired of the bull crap arguments about SoE.  right now they can't even touch the game.  so just shut up about it.  if some drastic change occurs then you can say i told you so and no one will care.   the game itself is good.  everyone willing to put aside biased loyalty towards whatever or resentfulness to anything else will notice that the game is good.  it's going to have it's phase where it needs big repairs just like any PC game that ever comes out. 

and jesus, everyone already knows what's been done in the past especially with SoE.  no one needs to add their 2 cents as if they really have something new to say about it.  everyone has already made up their decision about what they want to do or believe.  all that's going on now is a droning and it's not exactly making press and "getting out there" into any ears of anyone that'll make a difference.  you're whining to gaming nerds.  if you're one of those "SOE IS HORRIBLE CRAP... cause... uhh... IT"S BAD I HATE IT" or the... "WoW IS GREAT... IT"S GOT YEARS OF PATCHES BUT STILL OMGZ WHY ISN"T THIS GAME AS PERFECT" then i'm so damn glad i wont have to deal with you in game.  it's the people like you that probably piss me off while i'm grocery shopping or around a lot of people in general anywhere.

Now i wont be surprised if the first response i get after this is "your mom" joke or something else that is an attempt to be witty and sly and yet just doesn't matter or mean anything.  and while you endlessly scream hatred till blood sprays from your mouth and feed the unhappiness inside you, i'll be enjoying myself.  i might even stop to laugh at the thought of you guys.   

and i'm working up my activity on my mmorpg account just so i can give vanguard a 10 to counter all the 1's it's getting from the "it suxxorz so i gives a 1" raters.