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Sony Online Entertainment
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Cancelled  (est.rel 01/30/07)  | Pub:Sony Online Entertainment
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download,Retail | Retail Price:Free | Pay Type:Hybrid | Monthly Fee:$14.99
System Req: PC | ESRB:TOut of date info? Let us know!

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Forum » General Discussion » Official "We're Angry about SOE" Thread

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323 posts found
  furyjub

Novice Member

Joined: 6/27/06
Posts: 15

6/27/06 4:53:35 PM#81
Two words, FREE TRIAL
  Holyavenger1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/23/06
Posts: 320

6/29/06 8:50:56 PM#82
If you've read all that's been said on the topic by SOE and Sigil, you then know very well that there's nothing else to say about that matter. All we can do now is wait and see. And choose wether to believe in Sigil or not.

If you don't believe or trust their decision, its just plain and simple: wait a year or two before you buy the game. Then you'll have a good idea of SOE's impact on it.

When they came up with that option, they knew very well the impact this could have on their community / potential fanbase. And still, they went ahead with it. They were willingly taking the risk.

Fyrr Deerdan - HolyAvenger
http://www.therepopulation.com - The Sci-Fi Sandbox.

  User Deleted
7/01/06 2:11:56 PM#83

$oe suks this game is doomed

  User Deleted
7/01/06 8:47:34 PM#84

Originally posted by Holyavenger1

When they came up with that option, they knew very well the impact this could have on their community / potential fanbase. And still, they went ahead with it. They were willingly taking the risk.



They were willingly taking the idea of wining a million dollars with SOE. They don't care anymore about the game.

Brad wants the best for his children, who can blame him.
  briskojr

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/04
Posts: 65

7/05/06 6:44:10 PM#85

All i'll say is.. If you don't play Vanguard because you have issues with the company that's helping publish it, then you probably shouldn't be playing MMO's. If you're that sensitive, probably won't survive your first nerf.

Also, from just reading through the posts, some people here REALLY need to get their facts straight, or atleast read the official statements.

  Shayde

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/05
Posts: 4551

The game isn’t designed to keep people playing." - Smed

NOW you realize that! - Shayde

7/05/06 10:51:36 PM#86
Check out the SWG forums to see the mayhem.

Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.


It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  achellis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/05
Posts: 548

Murder She Wrote.

7/06/06 2:19:41 PM#87
yeah SOE is dumb and its dumb that there going to put them on this game considering that they messed up Ez but in this game they wont be able to do anything like they did in Eq because all there doing is hosting this game

  User Deleted
7/09/06 6:30:35 AM#88
$ony has a tendancy to buy and ruin good games.
  User Deleted
7/18/06 8:26:15 PM#89

I used to play SOE's Everquest 2, and enjoyed it when it first came out, however the game direction changed from having a variety in play/fun, to becoming a rush to level up/grab platinum. I enjoyed the shard recovery, it put a challenge into dying, and some thought into how deep I was getting myself into trouble. I enjoyed the crafting components, though maybe it was fine to eliminate some components, not eliminate them all. I enjoyed the thrill of discovering something that looked really cool, like the first time I rode a griffen. In short, I enjoyed the challenge, and putting some thought into what I was doing, and what direction my character was going. Eventually, I felt the game change to become a mindless hack and slash dungeon run, with the objective to level up and buy the latest expansion. Personally, I never really cared when I reached the level 50 cap of the basic game. Though others may enjoy the type of game EQ 2 became, it was no longer what I was looking for. And I'm okay with that. Now that SOE is publisher of Vanguard, and may one day acquire Vanguard, it is not necessarily a cause to panic/fatal to the game. Consider, EQ 2 now appeals to one market segment, and is SOE's response to WOW. Vanguard does not appear to be developed to appeal to the same market segment, but to a more mature market segment. Why would SOE ever want to change Vanguard into an EQ 2 or WOW clone, when they already have an entry to that market segment? All that does is dilute their currently existing product line. Perhaps the SOE acquisition of Vanguard was for an expansion of their existng product line. Perhaps SOE is looking to use EQ 2 to introduce casual players to the MMORPG market, get them "hooked", and eventually allow them to move into a more challenging, serious MMORPGs like Vanguard. We will just have to wait and see, but for right now I'm hoping the developers of Vanguard stick to their dreams, and come out with a game that many are so desparately hoping they can. And as to fleshing out the Vanguard gameworld, even SOE's EQ 2 didn't launch with everything in place, alot was added as time went on. Pateince...

  VillePukema

Novice Member

Joined: 5/08/05
Posts: 2

7/19/06 4:28:41 AM#90
I don't like SOE, they smell. 
  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1109

7/19/06 9:44:45 AM#91

It does not matter how great the devs and artists are that SOE brings into this game.  You still end up with a game supported by SOE and that means poor customer service, patches pushed out before they are ready, poor communication with the players and the chance they will turn the game upside down if another game comes out that makes more money.

I will never buy another SOE game, even if they release something awesome that gets 10 million subscribers.  I just refuse to ever give this company another dime of my money.  I hate them that much...

  n2sooners

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/03
Posts: 926

7/19/06 1:52:05 PM#92

Originally posted by Talonsin

It does not matter how great the devs and artists are that SOE brings into this game.  You still end up with a game supported by SOE and that means poor customer service, patches pushed out before they are ready, poor communication with the players and the chance they will turn the game upside down if another game comes out that makes more money.

I will never buy another SOE game, even if they release something awesome that gets 10 million subscribers.  I just refuse to ever give this company another dime of my money.  I hate them that much...


SOE won't be putting any devs or artists into the game because SOE isn't developing the game. SOE won't be providing in game CS support for the game. SOE won't be able to push patches because they aren't the game developer. SOE won't be able to change the game because they do NOT own the game. This isn't an SOE game, they are only the co-distributers. And you really should see someone about that problem of yours if you really have that much hatred for an large international company.

  finnmacool1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 482

7/20/06 12:30:56 PM#93

Originally posted by n2sooners


And you really should see someone about that problem of yours if you really have that much hatred for an large international company.

Its called speaking with your wallet. Maybe you are the type of person that repeatedly gives your business and hard earned cash to a company that lies,produces inferior products,provides horrendous support,etc. but some of us reach a breaking point where we are no longer willing to do so.

If sigil wants to endorse and reward $oe with co publishing vg despite their past actions and reputation thats fine. Brad is betting that most people will overlook $oe involvement despite any negative feelings they have toward $oe. Im sure he is right and most will still buy vg but some of us value integrity and principles more than a game.

  n2sooners

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/03
Posts: 926

7/20/06 1:13:29 PM#94

Originally posted by finnmacool1

Originally posted by n2sooners


And you really should see someone about that problem of yours if you really have that much hatred for an large international company.

Its called speaking with your wallet. Maybe you are the type of person that repeatedly gives your business and hard earned cash to a company that lies,produces inferior products,provides horrendous support,etc. but some of us reach a breaking point where we are no longer willing to do so.

If sigil wants to endorse and reward $oe with co publishing vg despite their past actions and reputation thats fine. Brad is betting that most people will overlook $oe involvement despite any negative feelings they have toward $oe. Im sure he is right and most will still buy vg but some of us value integrity and principles more than a game.


Ahhh, so you believe it was much better when they were with Microsoft? I mean, it isn't like MS has ever lied to their customers, had faulty or inferior products, or had CS problems now, is it? Yet I bet you still run Windows. I have had no more problems with SOE than I have had with any other software company, and much of the most enjoyable time I have ever had playing games were spent playing SOE products. You see, I am not some bitter loser who is lying to himself about how bad SOE is because I am objective enough to compare them to the alternatives.

So let's compare. Who has had the most successful MMO's, SOE or MS? Hmmm, there was EQ and AC. Both were good games, but AC was never as popular as EQ. As a matter of fact, those who try to belittle EQ often totally dismiss AC by saying EQ was only popular because it was the only game out there to play (forgetting UO, AC, and just a bit later DAoC and AO). So, score one for SOE there. How about their biggest disasters? Well, SOE had SWG which was broken from the beginning, and then they ended up fubaring the whole game with the NGE. The game is still alive, but it isn't nearly as popular as it should have been. On the other hand MS had AC2. One of only two MMOs developed by a major company to actually be discontinued after release. As far as I know, that is about it for MS.

Anyway, the biggest complaints I have heard about SOE are the NGE (not a problems since they aren't developing Vanguard) and customer service (which I have never had a problem with in the years I have been playing SOE games, and also not a problem because Sigil will be handling in game CS with Vanguard). But if you really must stand on your principle, be sure to uninstall Windows when you are done reading this because MS is ten times as bad as SOE. And don't forget to yank out that geforce card, after all they tried passing off those inferior 5 series cards off on their customers. And if you have an ATI, yank it too because they have had some really inferior CS with all their driver problems. Seriously, either go all the way or admit you have a seriously one sided hatred for SOE and are holding them to standards to which you don't hold any other company.

  finnmacool1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 482

7/20/06 2:55:52 PM#95

Im not sure why you are on a $oe pr crusade but ive never had any issues with any of the companies you listed including ms. I dont hold $oe to any different a standard than any other company or business. If i go to a restaurant and get crappy food or service every time i stop going there. If i purchase a product from a company and its defective or was misrepresented and it happens repeatedly i stop buying their products period. Im not sure what is so hard about that to understand or why you feel the need to try to tell me Im imagining the lies,crappy support,poor products,etc ive experienced with $oe. I gave them nearly 6 years worth of opportunities to earn and keep my business present and future. Im done.

In your $oe pr crusade and ms bashing you lost sight of something as well. It isnt sony ive written off,its $oe. I havent had issue with sony movies or electronics or any other division of sony, only $oe. Some of my favorite single player games were microsoft titles and ive never had anything but good experiences with them so not sure why you're trying to bash them.

I dont know you well enough to verify whether you are a bitter loser or not, but you sure come off as one.

  User Deleted
7/20/06 6:34:00 PM#96

actually, n2sooners real name is Steve Jobs, and he's still bitter about Bill Gates stealing the idea of the mouse from Apple Computer when Gates was a subcontractor for Jobs. After all, Jobs went to alot of trouble to steal the mouse from Xerox. Poor Steve can't post under his own name, cause he now works for Gates. But he's no loser, he has IPOD now! By the way, anybody ever tell you how Gates got hold of the Windows program? Or the story of how General Motors, Ford and Chrysler got hold of the intermittent windshield washer idea? Oooo, the auto companies, now there's an example of customer service...or Dell Computer..."iPlease press one to select English, 2 for Spanish, 3 for orcish..." ..."If you need to speak to our customer service department, go to Helen Waite."  ..." And tell me, how is the weather in Delhi today?" SOE is not alone in providing such outstanding customer service, I'm learning manadarin so I can be ahead of the game for my next major purchase. The real fantasy is expecting to be treated like a real person when subscribing to a fantasy MMORPG.

PT Barnum

  n2sooners

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/03
Posts: 926

7/25/06 2:21:33 AM#97

Originally posted by finnmacool1

Im not sure why you are on a $oe pr crusade but ive never had any issues with any of the companies you listed including ms. I dont hold $oe to any different a standard than any other company or business. If i go to a restaurant and get crappy food or service every time i stop going there. If i purchase a product from a company and its defective or was misrepresented and it happens repeatedly i stop buying their products period. Im not sure what is so hard about that to understand or why you feel the need to try to tell me Im imagining the lies,crappy support,poor products,etc ive experienced with $oe. I gave them nearly 6 years worth of opportunities to earn and keep my business present and future. Im done.

In your $oe pr crusade and ms bashing you lost sight of something as well. It isnt sony ive written off,its $oe. I havent had issue with sony movies or electronics or any other division of sony, only $oe. Some of my favorite single player games were microsoft titles and ive never had anything but good experiences with them so not sure why you're trying to bash them.

I dont know you well enough to verify whether you are a bitter loser or not, but you sure come off as one.


I am not bashing MS or standing up for everything SOE has done, I am simply being objective (something that SOE haters hate almost as much as SOE). MS has been a dismal failure as far as MMOs go. I use Windows, and I love a lot of things about it, but it has to be the buggiest piece of software ever (although they are getting better). And IE is a security nightmare. Of course, I am also a Nvidia fan, but did you ever try out their FX cards? I "upgraded" an old Geforce 4200 in one of my older computers to a 5200FX and the performance went down. They had ATI on the ropes at the time, then they released an inferior product. They have since made up for it with much better cards in the 6 and 7 series, but that still doesn't make the 5 series any better. And I used to be a big ATI fan. But they had some serious driver issues. Fortunately they have turned that around mostly, but I still prefer Nvidia drivers (and it makes it easier when all your comps have the same drivers).

But back to the main point. Windows is a very important piece of software. Your browser must be something secure. Drivers make the graphics world go round. And without a good graphics card, the best games aren't worth a damn. I am sure you have used some of the very esential products from those major companies, and I am sure you will continue to do so in the future, but the one piece of software that really seems to stir your passion and hatred is a game? You don't mind that your graphic card company is either passing off inferior hardware or drivers, or that your OS is bloated and buggy, or that your browser just makes things easier on hackers, but you are passionate about a game so much so that you won't do business with a company that is doing business with that game company? And then you accuse me of being a bitter loser?

  Salvatoris

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/06
Posts: 1372

7/25/06 11:21:08 AM#98

Why is is so hard to understand someone not wanting to do business with a company they feel has treated them poorly or ripped them off? Why do some of you guys act like it's odd, or unheard of to stop giving someone your money once they lose your trust?

  Vengeful

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/06
Posts: 475

7/25/06 11:43:03 AM#99

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Why is is so hard to understand someone not wanting to do business with a company they feel has treated them poorly or ripped them off? Why do some of you guys act like it's odd, or unheard of to stop giving someone your money once they lose your trust?



Because these are large corporations, not family owned buisnesses. Often, with these larger companies, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. It's not their fault really...it's a side effect of being too successful. There is no one person in SOE that you would put your trust in, much like you would a family owned resturaunt. And so... someone like myself, I notice that they aren't trying to hurt anyone. Someone somewhere made a mistake...it happens, so I don't buy that product of theirs. If they make a product I might enjoy, I'll buy it.

What I don't understand...is the inconsistancy. People don't do this with fast food, breakfast products, or record lables...but they do it with MMOs, Cars, and computers.

If you get food poisoning at Tacobell, do you also stop going to KFC? They're owned and run by the same people. If you get a stale batch of Corn Pops do you stop buying Frosted Flakes?

  finnmacool1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 482

7/25/06 1:05:28 PM#100

Originally posted by Vengeful

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Why is is so hard to understand someone not wanting to do business with a company they feel has treated them poorly or ripped them off? Why do some of you guys act like it's odd, or unheard of to stop giving someone your money once they lose your trust?



Because these are large corporations, not family owned buisnesses. Often, with these larger companies, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. It's not their fault really...it's a side effect of being too successful. There is no one person in SOE that you would put your trust in, much like you would a family owned resturaunt. And so... someone like myself, I notice that they aren't trying to hurt anyone. Someone somewhere made a mistake...it happens, so I don't buy that product of theirs. If they make a product I might enjoy, I'll buy it.

What I don't understand...is the inconsistancy. People don't do this with fast food, breakfast products, or record lables...but they do it with MMOs, Cars, and computers.

If you get food poisoning at Tacobell, do you also stop going to KFC? They're owned and run by the same people. If you get a stale batch of Corn Pops do you stop buying Frosted Flakes?


Im only speaking for myself, but none of your examples apply. As ive said before it wasnt one thing $oe did, it was nearly 6 years of cumulative bs. There comes a point when a company exhibits a certain track record to cause them to permanently lose my business. At the very least untill they exhibit a long track record of positive practices before i consider returning.

The $oe division,regardless of what individuals or group makling the decisions, has consistantly lied,misrepresented,pushed untested slop to release, etc. Nothing they have shown me makes me think they are anything but a completely unethical company.

Let me ask you this, if you ate at taco bell once a week for 6 years and got food poisoning every time would you keep going? There is a big difference between something beyond the control of a company and an active decision to make something happen.


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