Just a couple months ago, the game was doing great and growing really fast. Trial isle had so many people on, that /who didn't find them...mainland was busy as well.

 

Now the trial isle is lucky to see more than 20 people, even at peak...no one talks at all...when before chat was incredibly busy.

 

I go to mainland (I paid a month to see how VG was)...and its even worse than on the isle, only around 100 people usually...sometimes less...goes to 150 or so at peak time. The game has less population than even Ryzom had (before it went free to play). But what makes it worse is mainland is huge, and there are three continents...but I remember the server Telon was always medium...now it never goes to medium. And there was over 1000 people playing at peak. Now I've never seen it go past 200.

 

Wow did this game die...and fast...guess it didn't matter SOE put more developers into it...in fact...the game was more popular when SOE ignored it. But everyone here was saying because of lack of updates the game was dead...however, I guess it was the opposite.

 

Too bad too...VG is a great game and I LOVE the classes. But this game is more dead than Ryzom ever was. That is really sad to see this game just tank so badly.

This is pacific standard time by the way...

 

played around 10 am. 1 pm, 3 pm and 6 pm...usually when I see the most people on in MMOs. I've also played at 8 am and 11 pm

I haven't played in a while, but that's sad if the population really is that low now. VG had a lot of potential, a lot of cool features and a huge open world.

Vanguard is a lesson in why it's not exactly a great idea to release a forced grouping game in the modern MMO era.  Vanguard has had a low population for years, but due to the nature of the content, it can be a real pain to progress through the game even if you can ignore the bugs.

Err ... personally I dont really see the point of playing a MMO if there isnt "forced" group content.

Sure the game should allow to do some things solo - and Vanguard does - but the main point of playing "massively multiplayer", to me, is to cooperate and compete with other players !

 

But yeah, if Vanguard stays the way it is now, with just 100-200 active players (ignoring the starter island IoD), theres really no point in playing it anymore. Which is sad, because not even at the most distant horizont there isnt ANY company that wants to actually create a game of compareable awesomeness.

I guess I could live with a game that has less content than Vanguard has, but I dont think I will tolerate a rulesystem that just doesnt offer the immense complexity and depth of Vanguard classes. It just would be too frustrating and boring.

 

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Vanguard is a lesson in why it's not exactly a great idea to release a forced grouping game in the modern MMO era.  Vanguard has had a low population for years, but due to the nature of the content, it can be a real pain to progress through the game even if you can ignore the bugs.

 And this is the real probelm with new games these days, they make them so easy you can solo the entire game besides raids, instant gratification for the win. Massive Multiplayer games are suppose to make you group, that is the whole point of Massive Multiplayer, if you want to solo everything you can just play single-player games. It is attitudes like this that has ruined MMORPGs and made them so easy to play that games run out of centent within weeks of opening cause everyone just solo all the way up without socializing one bit.

More than anything I want to go back to how much fun I had in Everquest but the reality is that you need a critical number to make this type of game with forced grouping work. When those numbers do not exist the game becomes tedious and worse impossible to play and you have people leaving because of that and the situation is a catch 22. Sad but you see now why games haven given up on forced grouping.

Originally posted by melton80

 And this is the real probelm with new games these days, they make them so easy you can solo the entire game besides raids, instant gratification for the win. Massive Multiplayer games are suppose to make you group, that is the whole point of Massive Multiplayer, if you want to solo everything you can just play single-player games. It is attitudes like this that has ruined MMORPGs and made them so easy to play that games run out of centent within weeks of opening cause everyone just solo all the way up without socializing one bit.

There's nothing wrong with an MMO providing plenty of solo content for the antisocial or non-competitive crowd. If MMOs were "ruined", it wasn't because they started allowing players to solo all the way to the level cap if they wanted to. It was because the developers decided that those players should also be able to acquire the same items as the grouping/raiding people and conquer the game's toughest challenges without the same time and patience that the grouping/raiding people had to have to do it. Even in pre-Kunark EQ, I could've solo'd all the way to level 50 if I wanted to...it just would've taken me a very long time and I probably wouldn't have had any gear worth showing off.

 

It's the "go play single-player games, than" attitude that a lot of the younger or most vocal players have that keeps some of those older or quieter players from wanting to deal with grouping in the first place.

You posted this on January 5, 2012.  With a brand new hot item MMORPG just out and the latest VG content patch yet to go live, what do you expect?  

I love VG, but I refuse to play it until they start to patch, and the next patch will be what pulls me back in.  Right now, I'm enjoying immensely my time in SWTOR.  Still keeping an eye on VG though and for any developments from it's corner.  But it sure is quiet.

Originally posted by elocke

You posted this on January 5, 2012.  With a brand new hot item MMORPG just out and the latest VG content patch yet to go live, what do you expect?  

I love VG, but I refuse to play it until they start to patch, and the next patch will be what pulls me back in.  Right now, I'm enjoying immensely my time in SWTOR.  Still keeping an eye on VG though and for any developments from it's corner.  But it sure is quiet.

If you dont mind me asking, whats in the new patch that brings you back?  I got vanguard (unknowingly) just after launch and havnt played since my free 45 days from the sony hacking thing.

Originally posted by marinrider

Originally posted by elocke

You posted this on January 5, 2012.  With a brand new hot item MMORPG just out and the latest VG content patch yet to go live, what do you expect?  

I love VG, but I refuse to play it until they start to patch, and the next patch will be what pulls me back in.  Right now, I'm enjoying immensely my time in SWTOR.  Still keeping an eye on VG though and for any developments from it's corner.  But it sure is quiet.

If you dont mind me asking, whats in the new patch that brings you back?  I got vanguard (unknowingly) just after launch and havnt played since my free 45 days from the sony hacking thing.

For me, it's the change to xp gain, less xp to level and such.  I had the hardest time leveling from 28-35 due to most quest being group only.  I like to solo a lot of my leveling and can't stand grinding on mobs in a party or solo.  So this is the prime reason, for me.  I always felt the leveling pace was off but I'm one of those people who wants to play every class I possibly can on as many characters and have them all at cap at some point.  It's just how I am.  VG makes that nigh impossible for someone like me with it's current level pacing and xp gain.

Plus, the small fact that it means development is continuing on what all thought was a dead game, that's enough to bring me back as well.  So that my monthly fee isn't being wasted.

I don't know about that.  My guild is a bit quiet upon my return from a busy RL schedule but still seems to hover over 10 online most of the time.

I got into a raid for BoD and while clearing we got to where named mobs typically are and they were not there.  We ventured on to the next and realized it was being farmed by another group.

 

So, in my experience tonight, approaching 1am EST 2 different raid groups were trying to farm the same content.  In a truly dead game that would not happen.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Vanguard is a lesson in why it's not exactly a great idea to release a forced grouping game in the modern MMO era.  Vanguard has had a low population for years, but due to the nature of the content, it can be a real pain to progress through the game even if you can ignore the bugs.

YES. Most of all this.

Oh the many debates I had with people back then, who ALL wanted back the EQ1 era hardcore, and I told them 1000 times such an experiment would fail. If the game were good, people would ignore bugs, as many succesfull MMOs in the past have proven. It was a dinosaur from day one on.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Vanguard is a lesson in why it's not exactly a great idea to release a forced grouping game in the modern MMO era.  Vanguard has had a low population for years, but due to the nature of the content, it can be a real pain to progress through the game even if you can ignore the bugs.

YES. Most of all this.

Oh the many debates I had with people back then, who ALL wanted back the EQ1 era hardcore, and I told them 1000 times such an experiment would fail. If the game were good, people would ignore bugs, as many succesfull MMOs in the past have proven. It was a dinosaur from day one on.

Vanguard had a niche opportunity and blew it with a disaster launch. There is a place for grouping games and eq-like play... it is a bit far from mainstream but there is a market for this... but VG squandered that opportunity sadly.

i tried the trial island like 3 times... Is this game still sub based?

sometimes i feel like playing this game but i aint paying for an unsupported mmo. In case there is still a subscription, i dont know what SOE is thinking... after the success they had with DCUO transition to F2P they still keep VG abandoned and charging money? no wonder its almost empty

 

Originally posted by rojo6934

i tried the trial island like 3 times... Is this game still sub based?

sometimes i feel like playing this game but i aint paying for an unsupported mmo. In case there is still a subscription, i dont know what SOE is thinking... after the success they had with DCUO transition to F2P they still keep VG abandoned and charging money? no wonder its almost empty

 

Indeed. I really wish it would go to f2p. Some say it will be happening soon however I am not betting on it. vanguard is truly a throwback game and has many advantages over the current releases... that said, getting people back "in mas" is going to be hard without f2p.

2 things work most against group required games

one is that the time to form groups is never, even in much higher populated games, rapid (possible exception of dungeon-finder systems).

the other is that as level-based games age, the population gravitates towards the high end leaving the lower level content barren

in EQ the problem was further exacerbated by quests that didn't update for all unless all were at the exact same stage of the quest, you couldn't join a group doing part 4 & get "flagged" for having done that stage unless you had already done stage 1-3, you ended up doing it for just xp/loot alone & in order to complete the quest could quite easily end up doing the same stage multiple times without completing your own....whih led people to only group up for their exact stage needed...splitting up the pool of players into multiple splinters.

I personally think that games do need solo content & group content in enough measure to cater to both preferences, but a forced choice works against new players the hardest.

Either, don't have a level-based zones system, an open world.

Or you are pretty much forced into opening up the game to solo play.

I think Vanguard will be left to rot, much like Matrix Online was, I don't see SoE doing the required work to convert the game into a F2P title, rather the minute it becomes unprofitable (cost outweighs revenue) they'll just switch it off, & send the team to another in development title.

To me, Vanguard's failure has more to do with the fact that it was a bug ridden, resource hogging mess that was unplayable on many machines of its day. Had they chosen a less graphics intensive route and had the time to iron out the kinks, I believe it would have been a huge success.

. ...f2p wouldn't hurt at this point.

Loved this game but the population was just too low to stay.

However, lots of signs in place that it's going to be going F2P soon:

1.  New devs have been put on board.

2.  New content update making it more accessible to new players (although some vets not happy about it)

3.  Killing of Live Gamer Exchange

4.  Response on twitter from Smedley when asked about Vanguard F2P recently with - "Stay tunes ;)"

 

the thing that kills vg is from day 1, when they wasted so much time and money and come out with something so bad that Ms.pills out this itself should have set the alarm bell ringing, plus the horrendous bugs during launch and there after basically kills this game forever. if none of this problems have happen, I believe even though it's a group centric game, it will still have a healthy pop till now.