Played upon launch; loved it for about a month. Then got utterly sick of it. Played Pirates of the Burning Sea too; same result.

Why? For both games, I spoke to almost no one; and no one spoke to me; no relationships were formed. I also found myself being led around by the nose instead of looking around for myself.

Both problems in both of these games are a result of the quest/task systems. They are the only practical way to level; and after two weeks it becomes obvious how endless and mindless they truly are.

Many claim it was the buggy launch; but that isn't true. A bad launch is a temporary problem. Gameplay that fosters exploration and socialization will retain players and grow.

It should go without saying that this is merely my opinion; it is the reason I have no interest in returning to Vanguard. Why am I here? In the small hope that SOE fixes the problem so that many (including me) can return to the MMO with the best UI and graphics in the industry.

MMOs, by definition, are not supposed to be linear; but both of these games are *very* linear because of the task system.

(little about me). I was a guild leader of a successful guild for years in EQ; had (and still have) hundreds of friends in the game. I did not make one single friend in Vanguard or POBS. This is 100% the fault of the task system. /edit oops I should mention that out of combat regen is also a culprit here; no time to chat; must kill 3 more widgets to finish my task. And since I am FM, why bother to stop swinging long enough to type something other than "incoming."

Originally posted by Arclan

Played upon launch; loved it for about a month. Then got utterly sick of it. Played Pirates of the Burning Sea too; same result.

Why? For both games, I spoke to almost no one; and no one spoke to me; no relationships were formed. I also found myself being led around by the nose instead of looking around for myself.

Both problems in both of these games are a result of the quest/task systems. They are the only practical way to level; and after two weeks it becomes obvious how endless and mindless they truly are.

Many claim it was the buggy launch; but that isn't true. A bad launch is a temporary problem. Gameplay that fosters exploration and socialization will retain players and grow.

It should go without saying that this is merely my opinion; it is the reason I have no interest in returning to Vanguard. Why am I here? In the small hope that SOE fixes the problem so that many (including me) can return to the MMO with the best UI and graphics in the industry.

MMOs, by definition, are not supposed to be linear; but both of these games are *very* linear because of the task system.

(little about me). I was a guild leader of a successful guild for years in EQ; had (and still have) hundreds of friends in the game. I did not make one single friend in Vanguard or POBS. This is 100% the fault of the task system.

 I think you are underselling the effects of a bad launch, many people try to say "oh well WOW had problems at launch" and they would be right but most of those problems had to do with the fact that the game was populated beyond Blizzards expectations.

Right now I'm racking my brain to think of a game that is universally accepted to have had a bad launch that didn't end up closed down free to play or highly niche and I haven't been able to think of one yet.

I see it like this-

I played VG in Beta, it was such a buggy mess I decided to steer very, very clear of it at launch. Didn't waste a time.

Because it was a buggy mess, many people came and left very quickly.

Without players, hard to really form a community or require/force communication and group content.

The solo-focused approach to MMOs is a problem that EVERY MMO is facing, not just VG.

Since it is a systematic problem in the genre as a whole, it's not the reason VG has never taken off.

And best graphics? Not by a long shot. I'd have to say RIFT has the best graphics right now, hands down no competition.

The old saying " to have friends -you have to be a friend".

Get out there, talk and meet folks. "You" just might be the "key" that fires off the community!

to the OP, i cannot speak about back in the day, but nowadays if yu logon to vanguard you'll be able to make a hundred friends fast.  helpful people everywhere.  i actually switched from lotro on landroval to vg because of the people, and that's saying a lot because the people on landroval are amazing too,

Originally posted by Arclan

..... quest/task systems. They are the only practical way to level; and after two weeks it becomes obvious how endless and mindless they truly are.

 

Agree with you so much...

Raistlinm, I thought EQ1 and WOW both had major issues at launch. Both went on to become enormously popular.

The only issue I encountered with VG upon launch was occasionally falling through the world and the memory leak which would crash the game every few hours. Neither of these caused me to leave the game.

Originally posted by Arclan

I spoke to almost no one; and no one spoke to me; no relationships were formed.

This tells me more about you then the game.

A bad launch is a temporary problem.

No, it really isnt.

Originally posted by Arclan

Raistlinm, I thought EQ1 and WOW both had major issues at launch. Yet both went on the become enormously popular.

Wasn't there for EQ1s launch but in comparison to WoWs launch, Vanguard was a catastrophic failure.  Possibly one of the worst launches in the history of bad launches.

I dont think the OP has much of a point.

If you dont socialize MMOs are all like very weak singleplayer games.

Except of course SW:TOR, at least I hope that this will be the case. However, without socializing, even SW:TOR will just be a strong singleplayer game.

Bad launches are never forgiven ,they are raised like a specter and each topic on the game will be haunted by the ghost and it will never get away from it. I personally loved Vanguard and played again months later after Sony took over and I thought it was sad so many people just refused to give it another chance.

People do not as a rule forgive bad launches especially when you have paid for that game and endured the loss of that money and most never look back even when they hear it is better because they do not want to be cheated again. 

The very last thing Vanguard is is linear..........It's less linear than any mmo I know.  Free to do what you like. Hunters league quest line is linear, but thats only if you would like better gear ( from levels 17-to about 26 ).

Vanguard is my best mmo by far. If you would like to see an example of linear then play newer mmo's like Aion or Rift.  You have to do everything in order.  Infact in Aion, it showes a line backward of what you had done in the past.  I'm playing Rift right now, BUT I will be back to Vanguard shortly BECAUSE ITS THE BEST.

Vanguard is having a hard time because :

1 ) a bad launch, sorry it's a fact

2) It's a Duo or more game and people don't know how to make friends using the social Panel.  Or maybe choose not to.

3) SOE will not advertise properly, ( they only give free time to old players ).

4) People start and quit often because of #2.  If SOE created an option for NON-EXISTING customers to try the game, and everyone played at the same month ( filling the world ) then it would make a come back.....But SOE is stupid, and should not own Vanguard, the game is too good for them.

Originally posted by page

The very last thing Vanguard is is linear..........It's less linear than any mmo I know.  Free to do what you like. Hunters league quest line is linear, but thats only if you would like better gear ( from levels 17-to about 26 ).

Vanguard is my best mmo by far. If you would like to see an example of linear then play newer mmo's like Aion or Rift.  You have to do everything in order.  Infact in Aion, it showes a line backward of what you had done in the past.  I'm playing Rift right now, BUT I will be back to Vanguard shortly BECAUSE ITS THE BEST.

Vanguard is having a hard time because :

1 ) a bad launch, sorry it's a fact

2) It's a Duo or more game and people don't know how to make friends using the social Panel.  Or maybe choose not to.

3) SOE will not advertise properly, ( they only give free time to old players ).

4) People start and quit often because of #2.  If SOE created an option for NON-EXISTING customers to try the game, and everyone played at the same month ( filling the world ) then it would make a come back.....But SOE is stupid, and should not own Vanguard, the game is too good for them.

3)  When SOE advertised that game like crazy, no one bought it.

4)  A.  That game was free for like 3 months and no one played.

     B.  SOE gave the game client to any subscriber of  any SOE game and no one played.

     C.  SOE let any SOE game subscriber play for free for 6 months and no one played.

For whatever reason, no one enjoys playing that game.  I tried it 5 different times.  Never lasted beyond an hour.  It reminded me so much of EQ that I kept going back to that after playing VG.

Originally posted by gt4980b

Originally posted by page

The very last thing Vanguard is is linear..........It's less linear than any mmo I know.  Free to do what you like. Hunters league quest line is linear, but thats only if you would like better gear ( from levels 17-to about 26 ).

Vanguard is my best mmo by far. If you would like to see an example of linear then play newer mmo's like Aion or Rift.  You have to do everything in order.  Infact in Aion, it showes a line backward of what you had done in the past.  I'm playing Rift right now, BUT I will be back to Vanguard shortly BECAUSE ITS THE BEST.

Vanguard is having a hard time because :

1 ) a bad launch, sorry it's a fact

2) It's a Duo or more game and people don't know how to make friends using the social Panel.  Or maybe choose not to.

3) SOE will not advertise properly, ( they only give free time to old players ).

4) People start and quit often because of #2.  If SOE created an option for NON-EXISTING customers to try the game, and everyone played at the same month ( filling the world ) then it would make a come back.....But SOE is stupid, and should not own Vanguard, the game is too good for them.

3)  When SOE advertised that game like crazy, no one bought it.

4)  A.  That game was free for like 3 months and no one played.

     B.  SOE gave the game client to any subscriber of  any SOE game and no one played.

     C.  SOE let any SOE game subscriber play for free for 6 months and no one played.

For whatever reason, no one enjoys playing that game.  I tried it 5 different times.  Never lasted beyond an hour.  It reminded me so much of EQ that I kept going back to that after playing VG.

actually page's #4 has been happening over the last couple of months.

and i take issue with 2 points of the OP:

1. i am by nature in and out of game highly reluctant to do more than participate in chat discussions. in Vanguard i was almost immediately in a guild each time i came back. so im not sure why you didn't have any social connection in VG, but the only community thats its equal is LotRO Landroval server. and as itchmon pointed out, thats saying *a lot*.

2. if you haven't played a game in over 6 months or more, then perhaps you should reconsider posting. now tbh, if you hated the game back then, you'll probly hate it now. but that's a reflection of taste and preference most of the time. not actual appeal to all people everywhere at all times.

finally, i can't tell you how many times in the last couple of months i have heard new folks in the forums, but mostly ingame chat channels, say, wow. i had no idea this game was here/was this good/etc.

Vanguard is a solid PvE SandPark mmorpg. certainly well worth the price of a StationPass.

Personally I feel the OP needs to make the effort to talk to folks in VG and you will be suprised the feed-back you get from folks in the game. Some of the nicest peple in gaming are playing VG and are committed to helping others so feel you need to check it out again and give the game a second chance you might be suprised.

I would advise you to take some time out to chat to people of your level and then go group up with them and you will soon end up with loads more friends too. I played in EQ1 from beta to when EQII came out and was in a large guild too, but I far prefer VG to EQI socially wise the people are far more friendly and helpful par say!!

Personally I think that SOE will be forced to invest some extra man power to this game soon, however I hope they do more good than harm, because on past history they are renowned for ruining good game play just because some idiot had a vision for something they wanted to implament and not address the main issues in the game they were working on.

If they provide a team to improve this game the social side is the first thing they need to sort out to help people communicate better and to see who is about locally without to much effort. If a bit of time and money was invested to this game it could still hold it's own even now IMO.

I still have two accounts with this and love the game to bits and hope it does get some real love and attention and not left to rot like many SOE games are.

Vanguard was buggy during beta, and buggy at launch.  The real problem was until recently most of the bugs that were i beta were in the live game.   I know they had a bug squashing thing lately, but I have not been back to see how it is now.

The problem was the total lack of soe doing anything that would help the game for 3 years.  Folks get tired after a while when they see the light, that SOE was not interested in doing squat for the game.

That might have changed some, and honestly all we seen is some bug squashing.  I been watching the new server status page,and the vanguard servers have always said low,  never medium, and they will never show heavy load.

The problem still remains tons of bugs, lack of content, and a company who would rather see the game die than help it to flourish.

People tend  to overlook the fact that Sigil made the game, SOE bought them out then rushed the launch to make back the money they spent.  THat bad launch turned so many people away from the game that it has had a hard time bouncing back.  After that SOE ignored the game because they turned a profit.  Now that they lost SWG they are investing in Vanguard to bring in the income they will lose from the loss of SWG.  If you havent played Vanguard since launch give it a try now, you may be suprised.  TO the OP, it is not a very linear world.  Try getting out and exploring and you will discover how unlinear the world is.  There are three continents and every character has an adventuring class, crafting class, and diplomacy to level in. 

I went on the VG site after reading about it on an article, but after being unable to easily find screenshots/game information I just left the website. First impressions important, and it isn't following the standard "Game Info, Features, Media etc.." conventions.

Maybe I'm lazy and/or retarded, but that's one player gone.

Originally posted by Jayaris

I went on the VG site after reading about it on an article, but after being unable to easily find screenshots/game information I just left the website. First impressions important, and it isn't following the standard "Game Info, Features, Media etc.." conventions.

Maybe I'm lazy and/or retarded, but that's one player gone.

Really their is loads of information about Vanguard on the site and around the internet. You said it yourself  "lazy/or retarded" as for the one player gone,well you never were going to be a player.

You would be lost anyway..