So whats your idea of a perfect group ?

Mine would be something like this:

- Paladin : good aggro keeper, good immunities, overall probably best group tank

- Dread Knight : great tank + great solist + great debuffer, ideal offtank, ideal tank against groups of opponents

- Disciple: amazing solist, manaless heals, good (best?) dps for a healer; wipe survival with fake death

- Phoenix Shaman: great debuffer, great at regenerating mana

- Bard: massive melee dps, massive group damage buff, second best CC in the game (after Psio)

- Necromancer: wipe surviver, fearkiting, third offtank with pet summon, good damage over time damage

Best melee dps is the disciple but best overall dps healer is the bloodmage.

Tuurgin shammy bear pet is a better off-tank than the necro pet.

I would go with someth like

DK, War, Disciple, Cleric, Bard, Ranger

Uh, to my best knowledge - BM is always skilled the same way - +4 Int, +4 Wis, +2 Vit. There might be one or another oddball who instead skills +2 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Vit, but I think thats rather rare. So basically all BM's have the same dps. Which is decent, no question.

But Disciples basically come in two versions - the "healer" or "raid" Disc with +4 Vit, +4 Wis, +2 Dex, and the "solist" Disc with +4 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Vit. Obviously these two versions will have drastically different dps. I am not sure where they will stand but I am quite sure the solist version does very good dps - in fact it could be better dps than the always same BMs.

I already have two tanks in my group - so the pet as a third tank is really just optional and not really needed. The Tuurgin Shaman is a great solist (while the Phoenix Shaman is probably the worst solist of all healers), but they dont have much dps and the Phoenix Shaman would at least have some. The advantage of the Tuurgin is though, on higher levels, their strong END buff.

Originally posted by ArcheAge

Best melee dps is the disciple but best overall dps healer is the bloodmage.

 

Tuurgin shammy bear pet is a better off-tank than the necro pet.

I guess you mean the Monk? Disciples are healers. They can do some decent DPS if needed but there is no way the best Disciple can outdps a decent Monk or any other actual DPS class for that matter. Unless you mean they are the best DPS healer, in that case you are probably right.

Anyway, there is no perfect group setup, specially if you consider we have 15 classes to combine. There are some places I would never go to without a psi, for example, and I don't see many ppl mentioning that class.

Originally posted by gordiflu

Originally posted by ArcheAge

Best melee dps is the disciple but best overall dps healer is the bloodmage.

 

Tuurgin shammy bear pet is a better off-tank than the necro pet.

I guess you mean the Monk? Disciples are healers. They can do some decent DPS if needed but there is no way the best Disciple can outdps a decent Monk or any other actual DPS class for that matter. Unless you mean they are the best DPS healer, in that case you are probably right.

Anyway, there is no perfect group setup, specially if you consider we have 15 classes to combine. There are some places I would never go to without a psi, for example, and I don't see many ppl mentioning that class.

 i dont think so - he is reacting to this: "good (best?) dps for a healer" so "Best melee dps is the disciple but best overall dps healer is the bloodmage." means "out of healers"

Originally posted by gordiflu

I guess you mean the Monk? Disciples are healers. They can do some decent DPS if needed but there is no way the best Disciple can outdps a decent Monk or any other actual DPS class for that matter. Unless you mean they are the best DPS healer, in that case you are probably right.

Anyway, there is no perfect group setup, specially if you consider we have 15 classes to combine. There are some places I would never go to without a psi, for example, and I don't see many ppl mentioning that class.

Of course he talks about best dps for a healer, what else ?

Best melee dps is Rogue.

Psi is okayish - but Bard is almost as good in respect to CC, and they are amazing in respect to the dps boost they can give to a group. So yeah, ANY "perfect" group will always have a Bard.

Paladin - Best tank no doubt.

Bard - A must for any group. Can't beat the utility and the dps boost

Sorc - With a bard in the group mobs will die quick with a sorc

Ranger - More dps

Disc - feign death, manaless heals, not affected by silence spells, good overall dps

Tuurgin Shaman - 4 instant heals and some great buffs (10% extra melee damage + endu regen) to compliment

This group won't need any CC. I'll even argue that the shaman is a better pet class than the necromancer because of the instant pet heals

Originally posted by Starpower

Tuurgin Shaman - 4 instant heals and some great buffs (10% extra melee damage + endu regen) to compliment

Wait a moment - FOUR instant heals ? Does that mean the instant heals of the different levels each have their own recast timer ?!?

Originally posted by Adamantine

Originally posted by Starpower

Tuurgin Shaman - 4 instant heals and some great buffs (10% extra melee damage + endu regen) to compliment

Wait a moment - FOUR instant heals ? Does that mean the instant heals of the different levels each have their own recast timer ?!?

Sorry my bad 3 instant cast heals along with the ones with casting times. Fourth is an instant pet heal.

The different levels of the same spell are all on the same recast timer.

Intercession is a group heal on a 2 min recast time. It shields the party for 60% damage for 5 seconds and then instantly heals them for a large amount.

Panacea is a single target heal, on a 30 second cooldown. It instantly heals and shields them from 4 attacks

Life Ward another instant group heal on a 12 second cooldown. It also has a reactive heal component that heals up to x amount each hit until max is reached.

Those 3 instant heals + fast cast heals + awesome mana regen + offtanking pet makes shaman the best group healer in my opinion. Hell I have been in quite a few groups where I never needed to use heals with cast times. Just alternate between the 3. When a whole group is in trouble the instant group heals make a huge difference

As for the group setup. It's a safe group with good dps. If in an area where a second healer is overkill I would replace the shaman for a sorc. The kill speed would be amazing. If by chance the group should get into trouble then the two sorcs can sleep, bard can mez and the disc can CC a mob as well

Originally posted by gordiflu

Originally posted by ArcheAge

Best melee dps is the disciple but best overall dps healer is the bloodmage.

 

Tuurgin shammy bear pet is a better off-tank than the necro pet.

I guess you mean the Monk? Disciples are healers. They can do some decent DPS if needed but there is no way the best Disciple can outdps a decent Monk or any other actual DPS class for that matter. Unless you mean they are the best DPS healer, in that case you are probably right.

Anyway, there is no perfect group setup, specially if you consider we have 15 classes to combine. There are some places I would never go to without a psi, for example, and I don't see many ppl mentioning that class.

Lol..did you miss the bit where we are talking about healers.

Been playing vanguard since release and have  four level 55 toons and a few mid level.

I am not probably right..i am right..lol

I agree with the psi part though...

Pala: MT, endura regen for whole group, strong dps and strongest burst aggro for single target (other classes can go all out)

War: great grp dmg boosts, good dps, OT/AoE tank

Monk: great grp dmg boosts, very strong dps, crazy bursts

Bard: very strong dps boost for grp, high dmg

Psi: high dmg, group dmg aura but especially their buffs are a big boost for this setup (war, bard, shaman benefit alot)

Bear Shaman: buffs are a big boost especially for the melee dps in grp (endura regen & dps). very strong/versatile solo healer, decent dps

My perfect all-in-1 grp :) The classes benefit alot of each others buffs and short dura boosts. You can replace the Psi with a Sorc but only if you switch Bear Shaman with Phoenix Shaman.

Hmm, Monk boosts group damage ? That one is a new one to me. Which variant does that ? Drunken, Harmonious, or Dragon ?

Originally posted by Knupps

Pala: MT, endura regen for whole group, strong dps and strongest burst aggro for single target (other classes can go all out)

War: great grp dmg boosts, good dps, OT/AoE tank

Monk: great grp dmg boosts, very strong dps, crazy bursts

Bard: very strong dps boost for grp, high dmg

Psi: high dmg, group dmg aura but especially their buffs are a big boost for this setup (war, bard, shaman benefit alot)

Bear Shaman: buffs are a big boost especially for the melee dps in grp (endura regen & dps). very strong/versatile solo healer, decent dps

 

My perfect all-in-1 grp :) The classes benefit alot of each others buffs and short dura boosts. You can replace the Psi with a Sorc but only if you switch Bear Shaman with Phoenix Shaman.

huh? how about some healing? i guess with this much dps you dont need heals for normal mobs, but what about dungeons and bosses?

edit: sorry, i somehow overlooked the shaman, i guess i only looked at "Bear" :)

Oh, I didnt even noticed that.

Thats truely funny.

I usually would promote having two healers. The reason is fairly simple: if they manage to share the healing, each of them would get half as much healing aggro.

Granted, usually one is assigned main healer and gets 75% or so of the aggro. Still he would get less than a single healer, making extreme situations (tank pulled, say, half a douzen mobs) much more manageable.

Having two tanks but only one healer is kinda ... well ... a single healer in Vanguard can be very little for one tank, already. For two tanks its definitely very low.

Ran a group tonight in trengel keep with:

Pally

SK

Ranger

Bard

Psi

Necro

Did very very well. Just remember the basics, if you have a real tank and a real healer, you can get away with less CC. More CC opens up things and bards open up everything. 

Err ...

I assume "SK" was supposed to be "SH" for Shaman ?

Otherwise you wouldnt have had a healer in the first place.

And there is no class that could be shortcut to "SK" in Vanguard.

Your group is very high dps, but not high on healing/tanking. Unlike other MMOs, in Vanguard healing and especially tanking  are not trivial jobs. Thats why I prefer to have two tanks (one as offtank in case of bad pulls) and two healers (so each of them gets only half the aggro a single healer would get, and to have more healing power overall).

Its true though that Paladin is currently the best tank. Thats because Silius, the lead designer, had this class under his control - and as he was the boss, he couldnt resist the temptation to buff them too much.

Theres hope this is getting corrected soon, though. Already Paladins got a small nerf.