This game has actual consequences to dying. You lose exp.  And trust me, I've lost quite a bit at one point.  Been playing Rift last month and have to say the pve was extremely easy.  Found a certain cleric aoe dps build that basically made me a mage with chain armour, allowing me to kill (no exaggeration) 6 mobs at one time, all of them a level higher than myself.  Came back to Vanguard and got my butt kicked.  Definitely some PVE that makes you think twice before charging into battle.  Nice to feel an element of danger again in one of these games.  I don't want to die in Vanguard.  

Not just xp loss but you have to recover your tomb. And yeah... in rift you can die willy-nilly and pop right back up.

Originally posted by GrayGreene

 I don't want to die in Vanguard.  

And i dont want Vanguard to die.

Speaking of Vanguard I decided to give it a try and played for the first time last night.  Met some nice, helpful people who assisted me with the Dawn Island quest chain to level 10. 

Good to know there are consequences in the game when one dies.  Something to look forward to post-Dawn Island. ;)

Originally posted by GrayGreene

Found a certain cleric aoe dps build that basically made me a mage with chain armour, allowing me to kill (no exaggeration) 6 mobs at one time

6 mobs? You're doing the wrong AOE spec. Try 15-20 mobs at once, never leaving 85% health or mana.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PinFpgZJdo

I made a few other videos on the spec, too.

Originally posted by Vaygus

Originally posted by GrayGreene

Found a certain cleric aoe dps build that basically made me a mage with chain armour, allowing me to kill (no exaggeration) 6 mobs at one time

6 mobs? You're doing the wrong AOE spec. Try 15-20 mobs at once, never leaving 85% health or mana.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PinFpgZJdo

 

I made a few other videos on the spec, too.

Lol, i don't see 15-20.  And by at one time, I mainly mean killing at once within a few seconds.  I like what you were doing in the video, but did not see 15-20, nor did I see anything different from typical aoe clerics using inq/cab and sent or purifier.  :)

Originally posted by GrayGreene

Originally posted by Vaygus

Originally posted by GrayGreene

Found a certain cleric aoe dps build that basically made me a mage with chain armour, allowing me to kill (no exaggeration) 6 mobs at one time

6 mobs? You're doing the wrong AOE spec. Try 15-20 mobs at once, never leaving 85% health or mana.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PinFpgZJdo

 

I made a few other videos on the spec, too.

Lol, i don't see 15-20.  And by at one time, I mainly mean killing at once within a few seconds.  I like what you were doing in the video, but did not see 15-20 mobs higher levels than you.  Nor did I see anything different from typical aoe clerics using inq/cab with sent or purifier.  :)

Of course, this thread wasn't started to speak about Rift and your cleric build.  But cool video anyhow.  Glad to see someone else ripping it with the cleric as a dps tool.

I played this game at launch but never really got into it....I was too consumed by Lineage 2. Ive read nothing but great things about Vanguard and i would come play if there were future updates :/ I like games that have quite high penalty for death.

Originally posted by spinesplit

I played this game at launch but never really got into it....I was too consumed by Lineage 2. Ive read nothing but great things about Vanguard and i would come play if there were future updates :/ I like games that have quite high penalty for death.

Only thing missing for me is population.  What is there is tremendous however.  Never experienced a better community.  Imagine finding that perfect guild on one of the larger games then imagine the entire community being like that guild.  

The PVE truly is a challenge.  Very different from the major titles.  

Yeah this game is amazing. 

I haven't played it for a while but I used to hate how some mobs would just sneak up on and then chase you for miles when you tried to escape. 

I'm going to give it another try once I get a new PC. I just wish I had friends to play dungeons with. (I prefer soloing for questing)

Vanguard was never meant to be a game of fast combat so yeah trying to aoe packs isn't going to get you far :p. As for challenging PVE *shrugs*, I guess to each's own.

As for death penalty, VG's death penalty is light just as Rift's. Death Penalties don't make the game no more challenging.

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

Vanguard was never meant to be a game of fast combat so yeah trying to aoe packs isn't going to get you far :p. As for challenging PVE *shrugs*, I guess to each's own.

As for death penalty, VG's death penalty is light just as Rift's. Death Penalties don't make the game no more challenging.

Lol, i couldn't disagree more.  Rift has no death penalty.  You would have to die like 10 times in a row without seeing a healer for there to be any penalty.  I have never, not a single time, ever incrued any penalty for dying in Rift.  To compare Rift with Vanguard is bad. 

Also, death penalties don't make for a more challenging game?  {mod edit} 

Originally posted by GrayGreene

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

Vanguard was never meant to be a game of fast combat so yeah trying to aoe packs isn't going to get you far :p. As for challenging PVE *shrugs*, I guess to each's own.

As for death penalty, VG's death penalty is light just as Rift's. Death Penalties don't make the game no more challenging.

Lol, i couldn't disagree more.  Rift has no death penalty.  You would have to die like 10 times in a row without seeing a healer for there to be any penalty.  I have never, not a single time, ever incrued any penalty for dying in Rift.  To compare Rift with Vanguard is bad. 

Also, death penalties don't make for a more challenging game?  {mod edit} 

You must have a difficult time reading. In regards to death penalty, the only thing you lose is time and in-game money. And for some games exp, which is just time. So to compare VG and Rift's death penalty is quite fair.

And yes, death penalties do not make the games any more challenging. In my opinion of course.

A disagreement is not an arguement. Simply because you do not agree doesn't mean its an arguement.

Challenge and Punishment are two different things.

Ahem . . . (ignoring the disgruntled persons) The death penalty in Vanguard is challening.  I started the thread to say how fun a challenge can be.  After games like Rift, WOW, and Everquest 2, feels good to have to think before i enter into combat.  I believe more mmorpgs should present this type of challenge in their games, and allow more severe consequences to death.  Vanguard is a role model when it comes to challenging PVE, crafting, and housing.  :)  Glad to be a part of it.  

Punishment IS the challenge.  Avoid being punished by not taking on more than you can chew.  Avoid being punished by crafting some better armour.  I could go on and on.  But the goofballs coming out against Vanguard are growing tiresome.

How am I disgruntled. Not surprised from a misguided fan. As someone who has played all the titles you have mentioned. Myself personally did not find the death penalties to be a factor in my gameplay nor experience. This is not belittling any of the games in what they have to offer, this is just stating an opinion. If you feel like it is insulting to your game, then there's nothing I can do about that. Not once in my 3 years of playing VG have I ever went "Wow this death penalty is definately hurting, I have to change something!". Nor has any title done so.

As the poster stated about Challenge and Punishment. That's the point I was getting at. Just leave it at that.

Originally posted by GrayGreene

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

Originally posted by GrayGreene

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

Vanguard was never meant to be a game of fast combat so yeah trying to aoe packs isn't going to get you far :p. As for challenging PVE *shrugs*, I guess to each's own.

As for death penalty, VG's death penalty is light just as Rift's. Death Penalties don't make the game no more challenging.

Lol, i couldn't disagree more.  Rift has no death penalty.  You would have to die like 10 times in a row without seeing a healer for there to be any penalty.  I have never, not a single time, ever incrued any penalty for dying in Rift.  To compare Rift with Vanguard is bad. 

Also, death penalties don't make for a more challenging game?  {mod edit} 

You must have a difficult time reading. In regards to death penalty, the only thing you lose is time and in-game money. And for some games exp, which is just time. So to compare VG and Rift's death penalty is quite fair.

 

And yes, death penalties do not make the games any more challenging. In my opinion of course.

{mod edit} 

{mod edit}  And I agree with Xeon, VG-like death penalties do not make games more "challenging" but it is a way to "punish" players for failure by making you loose some time and effort (xp/gold grind). However, VG is an excellent game and I am glad more pople are discovering this little gem of a game. Hell, I'd still be playing if it wasn't for the lack of population...

Now, if we could only get it out of $ONY's hands...

Originally posted by GrayGreene

Originally posted by kakasaki

Originally posted by GrayGreene

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

Originally posted by GrayGreene

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

Vanguard was never meant to be a game of fast combat so yeah trying to aoe packs isn't going to get you far :p. As for challenging PVE *shrugs*, I guess to each's own.

As for death penalty, VG's death penalty is light just as Rift's. Death Penalties don't make the game no more challenging.

Lol, i couldn't disagree more.  Rift has no death penalty.  You would have to die like 10 times in a row without seeing a healer for there to be any penalty.  I have never, not a single time, ever incrued any penalty for dying in Rift.  To compare Rift with Vanguard is bad. 

Also, death penalties don't make for a more challenging game?  {mod edit} 

You must have a difficult time reading. In regards to death penalty, the only thing you lose is time and in-game money. And for some games exp, which is just time. So to compare VG and Rift's death penalty is quite fair.

 

And yes, death penalties do not make the games any more challenging. In my opinion of course.

{mod edit} 

{mod edit} And I agree with Xeon, VG-like death penalties do not make games more "challenging" but it is a way to "punish" players for failure by making you loose some time and effort (xp/gold grind). However, VG is an excellent game and I am glad more pople are discovering this little gem of a game. Hell, I'd still be playing if it wasn't for the lack of population...

Now, if we could only get it out of $ONY's hands...

{mod edit} 

{mod edit} 

And to quote Xeon's last post , "As the poster stated about Challenge and Punishment. That's the point I was getting at. Just leave it at that."

And I agree, let's just leave it at that since you are so emotionally attached to the subject...