So, while on my hunt for a second MMORPG, that could counterweight CO's soloquest action I, once again, was pointed in this direction. And, since I'm [s]an idiot/s] awesome like that, I decided to try it one more time. The game fascinates me, to be honest, but low server numbers scare the carp out of me.

So... Vanguarders. Should I stay? Seriously, I don't have problems with game design and performance, but things like community, class balance, longivety (SOE seemed to be on the "dead MMO closing spree lately) AND the involvement of SOE... Don't fill me with much of a hope.

Are there a lot of guilds? Any community at all? RP? Things like that would be really helpful, before I part with my, uh... Ten bucks?

Originally posted by Goronian

 So, while on my hunt for a second MMORPG, that could counterweight CO's soloquest action I, once again, was pointed in this direction. And, since I'm [s]an idiot/s] awesome like that, I decided to try it one more time. The game fascinates me, to be honest, but low server numbers scare the carp out of me.

So... Vanguarders. Should I stay? Seriously, I don't have problems with game design and performance, but things like community, class balance, longivety (SOE seemed to be on the "dead MMO closing spree lately) AND the involvement of SOE... Don't fill me with much of a hope.

Are there a lot of guilds? Any community at all? RP? Things like that would be really helpful, before I part with my, uh... Ten bucks?

I'm surprised no one answered this. Well, here is my two cents.

If you are looking for a game with solid company support, huge expansioins, events, etc, Vanguard is not it. But quite frankly, the game is so large that in some ways it doesn't need it.

There are guilds and there are guilds who support (or claim to support) new players. I'm on Seradon and there seems to be a decent population. However, in Vanguard, as you well know, the world is so large that you are not going to /who and see thousands of people. For me this is fine because I like the feeling of a world and not the feeling that everyone is runnign around doing the same stuff, dancing in the cities, etc.

My opinion is thus:

Vanguard is for you if:

You like and are ok with soloing.

You are proactive and can go after people for groups and don't mind waiting a bit if you don't find anyone

If you join a good guild and/or have friends to play with.

I personally love the game and will maintain a subscription for the lifetime of the game as I feel it's a game that needs support.

I agree with all of Sov's points above. A fun game if you don't mind soloing and some extra effort to grab a group. The game has come a long way from where it was at release and it can be truly engaging and very entertaining at times.

 Hm... It's kinda illogical, that the game, which focuses heavy on old-school EQ pace and grouping philosophy would be so... Solo? But I like the game, so I will subscribe. Now, the only thing I need is a guild...

The population on Seradon is solid.  It's just the fact that the land mass is so huge that the lower level population is spread out.  The game is almost 3 years old now and most folks are higher level.  However, mentoring was just put in the last patch and will make it possible for higher level characters to group with lower level. Looking forward to that myself.

The world is vast, so even a high server population (no, unfortunately not. Most are low or medium) would seem thin on the ground when you are actually looking for people from 'ground level', so to speak.

It's a victim of it's own design philosophy. A wide open world with multiple starting locations and lots to explore.

Join a guild. It helps massively when it comes to regular group play.

Originally posted by Vyrolakos

The world is vast, so even a high server population (no, unfortunately not. Most are low or medium) would seem thin on the ground when you are actually looking for people from 'ground level', so to speak.

It's a victim of it's own design philosophy. A wide open world with multiple starting locations and lots to explore.

Join a guild. It helps massively when it comes to regular group play.

Where should I look for a guild? In-game or forums?

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by Vyrolakos

The world is vast, so even a high server population (no, unfortunately not. Most are low or medium) would seem thin on the ground when you are actually looking for people from 'ground level', so to speak.

It's a victim of it's own design philosophy. A wide open world with multiple starting locations and lots to explore.

Join a guild. It helps massively when it comes to regular group play.

Where should I look for a guild? In-game or forums?

I would say both. I do remember that on Seradon there are two guilds that advertise as being new player friendly. the platinum order and the other is something like noobz r us.

The platinum order also goes by TPO

There are so many new MMOs coming out that cater to the PVE and PVP crowds, and sometimes both. Might as well just wait it out.

If I were you I would wait for the Darkfall update later this month that is adding playing run shops, local banking, and caravans. Among tons of other awesome stuff.

Also, the old repbulic will be out soon. And Final Fantasy 14 online which with the newly added info on the web site looks like its really shaping up to be the first true next generation MMORPG. And that term has been flying around since like 2006 haha. Fingers crossed.

But if you insist on playing Vanguard (I really liked the game but there just isnt a good enough reason to play, the world is amazing but very stale these days) you need to play on Seradon. Healthy enough population, and very helpful guilds.

Originally posted by Ozreth

There are so many new MMOs coming out that cater to the PVE and PVP crowds, and sometimes both. Might as well just wait it out.

If I were you I would wait for the Darkfall update later this month that is adding playing run shops, local banking, and caravans. Among tons of other awesome stuff.

Also, the old repbulic will be out soon. And Final Fantasy 14 online which with the newly added info on the web site looks like its really shaping up to be the first true next generation MMORPG. And that term has been flying around since like 2006 haha. Fingers crossed.

But if you insist on playing Vanguard (I really liked the game but there just isnt a good enough reason to play, the world is amazing but very stale these days) you need to play on Seradon. Healthy enough population, and very helpful guilds.

See, I'm a PvE player, and FF and SW universes just... Never appealed to me all that much. I have no interest in playing any of the abovementioned games.

And I am playing at Seradon currently.

"Where should I look for a guild? In-game or forums?"

I guess both (forums and in-game, as already suggested) is the way to go.

Actual guilds to choose will depend on which server you're on. I don't know which ones are on Seradon as I have only played on Halgar (the EU one).

Ask around and see which seems to suit you the best. The Guild recruitment screen (in the Social options box) lists them and mentions what they 'claim' to be about. Then you just need to get chatting with their reps.

 Thanks for all the answers! I will look for them in-game, after finishing the Isle. Already bought it.

With this, CO and Allods Online... Well, I have my fix.

Every time I convince myself to give VG another go, I remember that it has RMT =(    At one point I convinced myself that it was justified and I tried to play anyway and ignore it, but I just couldn't.   Sometimes when I see a nice item being linked I would wonder whether or not it was bought, or whether or not I should buy it, and then that would remind me about the RMT, and always seems to just suck the fun right out =/

Originally posted by heremypet

Every time I convince myself to give VG another go, I remember that it has RMT =(    At one point I convinced myself that it was justified and I tried to play anyway and ignore it, but I just couldn't.   Sometimes when I see a nice item being linked I would wonder whether or not it was bought, or whether or not I should buy it, and then that would remind me about the RMT, and always seems to just suck the fun right out =/

See, I just don't get this.  RMT in VG, first off, isn't that popular.  Mainly coin is sold, and sometimes characters (and you will know if someone doesn't know how to play their lvl 55 character that they bought off Live Gamer...so you can shun them if you really wanted to).  Second, the RMT in VG is not an item mall.  All the coin and characters and items on there had to be gotten by a player somehow.  It already existed in the game, and wasn't fed into the Live Gamer service by SOE.  I don't know why or how someone else having an awesome item should "suck the fun right out" for you.  You play the game how you want to play the game, regardless if someone else has awesome gear and regardless of how they obtained it, and if you don't like Live Gamer, you don't have to take advantage of it.

Enjoy the game, enjoy your accomplishments, but for goodness' sake, people, stop with the bellyaching because so-and-so happens to have nicer gear.  Regardless of how they came by it, because soulbound gear and like items cannot be placed on Live Gamer.  Only things that could normally be sold through the regular in-game broker can be placed onto Live Gamer.

Seriously...you're only doing yourself a disservice if you're letting something like that suck the fun of the game out of you.  Because in reality, Live Gamer's effects aren't nearly as far-reaching as you and some might think.

RMT?

Hadn't even noticed it.

Is it big then?

Should I be bothered about all the higher level players with better gear than me as well?

Who cares or even notices what other groups are doing?

I've bought the occasional exotic item from the exchange, you know, the stuff people craft to sell, but that's purchased with 'in game' coin that I've "earned". Not real money. Friends have crafted stuff for me. Which is nice.

Maybe it's more important if you are into PvP?

I guess it would be annoying if you got your arse handed to you by someone who just paid cash for all their goodies.

I tend to stick to PvE play, so I guess I probably just don't notice any of this.

I know how far reaching it can be, but to me it's not a matter of how popular it appears to be, it's the principle behind it.  VG allows its players to cheat, plain and simple.  SoE suggests that RMT is inevitable, and that at least with LG it's safer, but it seems to me that SoE is more interested in reducing CS issues than keeping cheaters out of their game.

No, I don't care about PvP in VG.

Originally posted by heremypet

I know how far reaching it can be, but to me it's not a matter of how popular it appears to be, it's the principle behind it.  VG allows its players to cheat, plain and simple.  SoE suggests that RMT is inevitable, and that at least with LG it's safer, but it seems to me that SoE is more interested in reducing CS issues than keeping cheaters out of their game.

No, I don't care about PvP in VG.

I can see your point about it being the principle of the thing. However, companies need to make money. None of them are doing it for the love of gaming.

As an example; Turbine's DDO has chosen to go 'free to play' with 'micro transactions', a system I personally dislike and is much more intrusive than any RMT system in Vanguard, which I don't even notice.

I guess it comes down to personal preference, but I don't notice it, and it doesn't seem to be game breaking, so ... meh.

For me the only real issue with Vanguard is low population and a lack of expansions to attract new players and keep the old players.

Originally posted by Vyrolakos

Originally posted by heremypet

I know how far reaching it can be, but to me it's not a matter of how popular it appears to be, it's the principle behind it.  VG allows its players to cheat, plain and simple.  SoE suggests that RMT is inevitable, and that at least with LG it's safer, but it seems to me that SoE is more interested in reducing CS issues than keeping cheaters out of their game.

No, I don't care about PvP in VG.

 

I can see your point about it being the principle of the thing. However, companies need to make money. None of them are doing it for the love of gaming.

As an example; Turbine's DDO has chosen to go 'free to play' with 'micro transactions', a system I personally dislike and is much more intrusive than any RMT system in Vanguard, which I don't even notice.

I guess it comes down to personal preference, but I don't notice it, and it doesn't seem to be game breaking, so ... meh.

For me the only real issue with Vanguard is low population and a lack of expansions to attract new players and keep the old players.

Vangard has RMT now? WOW.

RMT has no room in a pay to play game- I dont play F2P because it comes down to (really) spending MUCH more than $15/month to stay competitive. I prefer to pay monthly and know that everyone is on an even playing field... Even "fluff" items have no room in a ca$h $hop in a subscription game.

If this is true- This is a disturbing trend that companies will use to nickle and dime their customers above and beyond their monthly fee. Games need to make money? Damn- if $15/month plus $50/game isnt making money- Fuck em.

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If this is true- This is a disturbing trend that companies will use to nickle and dime their customers above and beyond their monthly fee.

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It does look that way. Nearly all of the major MMO producers seem to be finding ways of screwing players for every last $/£.

Even the biggest MMO of them all, with over eleven million subscribers has 'features' that they charge for. Eleven million subscribers and they still want ways to make more money.

To you (and me) it's a game. To them, it's just a business.

Originally posted by Vyrolakos

Originally posted by heremypet

I know how far reaching it can be, but to me it's not a matter of how popular it appears to be, it's the principle behind it.  VG allows its players to cheat, plain and simple.  SoE suggests that RMT is inevitable, and that at least with LG it's safer, but it seems to me that SoE is more interested in reducing CS issues than keeping cheaters out of their game.

No, I don't care about PvP in VG.

 

I can see your point about it being the principle of the thing. However, companies need to make money. None of them are doing it for the love of gaming.

As an example; Turbine's DDO has chosen to go 'free to play' with 'micro transactions', a system I personally dislike and is much more intrusive than any RMT system in Vanguard, which I don't even notice.

I guess it comes down to personal preference, but I don't notice it, and it doesn't seem to be game breaking, so ... meh.

For me the only real issue with Vanguard is low population and a lack of expansions to attract new players and keep the old players.

Just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it cannot affect your gameplay or those around you. 

RMT like vanguard has changes the nature of the game.  There is now a financial incentive to get items and being altruistic with items has a tangible net loss.  It is silly, but that is what some people will see and change their gameplay accordingly.  Not to mention that there is an addition financial incentive for soe to design the game in such a way that it encourages players to use the service.  Like you said, soe wants money and they don't get any money if you don't use the service. 

When does it stop and when is it to much?  What happens when the rmt loot trading card game comes to vanguard?  Will you dismiss that away also?  How about station cash where soe openly sells items for real life money?  What happens when soe starts selling game zones through their cash shop or random loot cards? 

Anything can be dismissed by saying a company is a business and businesses need money.  That doesn't mean everything they do is healthy for their product or in the best interests of their customer and lets not forget that soe is a service based business.

I love the cash shop that vanguard has.  I just bought a new rogue level 48 for $70 after having grown tired of the level 50 warrior I purchased a few months back. The population is definately very low, but it doesnt matter to me since if I need something I just buy it online.

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Just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it cannot affect your gameplay or those around you. 
RMT like vanguard has changes the nature of the game.  There is now a financial incentive to get items and being altruistic with items has a tangible net loss.  It is silly, but that is what some people will see and change their gameplay accordingly.  Not to mention that there is an addition financial incentive for soe to design the game in such a way that it encourages players to use the service.  Like you said, soe wants money and they don't get any money if you don't use the service. 
When does it stop and when is it to much?  What happens when the rmt loot trading card game comes to vanguard?  Will you dismiss that away also?  How about station cash where soe openly sells items for real life money?  What happens when soe starts selling game zones through their cash shop or random loot cards? 
 
Anything can be dismissed by saying a company is a business and businesses need money.  That doesn't mean everything they do is healthy for their product or in the best interests of their customer and lets not forget that soe is a service based business.

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I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm just saying I have no influence over whether they do it or not. They decide how they run their business, we decide whether we want to use them or not.

If there were another game with all of the features that I like in Vanguard but with none of the RMT and no incoming money grabbing 'extras' that I'm pretty sure are on the horizon, then I would choose to play that game. Unfortunately, the only other game that comes even close to what I want to play, is EQ2. Which is run by SOE as well and has even MORE money grabbing 'extras' than Vanguard.

I'm just living with what has been dealt until something better comes along. The alternative is not to play any of them. How does that work in my favour?

Originally posted by Trueth

I love the cash shop that vanguard has.  I just bought a new rogue level 48 for $70 after having grown tired of the level 50 warrior I purchased a few months back. The population is definately very low, but it doesnt matter to me since if I need something I just buy it online.

Has no effect on me. You're the one who has lost out on 48 levels of game play.

All items sold in the live gamer are player items. It's a live auction/market for players to sell items. To my knowledge nothing is posted by the company - it's just now a legit way to sell items/gold/characters.

In all honesty I pretty much forgot VG adopted this via live gamer - I don't think many people use this and if they do it's probably for only 1 or 2 things..

The only thing worth buying is gold and characters.. items are always replaced and most of the good items are soulbound anyway.

I play the game to have fun - it's not a competition for me.

Originally posted by Vyrolakos

Originally posted by Trueth

I love the cash shop that vanguard has.  I just bought a new rogue level 48 for $70 after having grown tired of the level 50 warrior I purchased a few months back. The population is definately very low, but it doesnt matter to me since if I need something I just buy it online.

 

Has no effect on me. You're the one who has lost out on 48 levels of game play.

Well that's why the vanguard exchange exists.... There are always people that only see the end game as being interesting and enjoyable and like to buy their characters rather then level them up.  If there weren't these types of people then people selling characters wouldn't have a market, but we all know that isn't the case, just google "anygame gold" and you will find tons of sites trading or in many cases just outright selling characters and gold...  I see these people in every game.  Wow has lots of people who buy characters for example and what is even more amazing in some cases they pay hundreds of dollars for characters.  Frankly, I never really understood why you would pay to play a game and then buy a character to bypass all the game.