Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Forum » General Discussion » I wonder

Originally posted by hybridfury

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by CristianCeo

  Wich game give you this HUUUUUUGE freedom? Name one just one, i know u can't because the is none!

 

 

Cristian Ceo, I am glad you are enjoying Vanguard...

 I noticed you are level 11/12, right? Well, I don't want to ruin your experience with this game as I really think you should enjoy it and have fun. But I do belive your enthusiasm with Vanguard is just a result of the initial positive experience Vanguard can offer.

Between level 30 and 40 you will realize Vanguard seems to be huge  but it in reality it is a small game.

At 30+ you will notice nothing in Vanguard will really surprise you anymore, you will see reused creatures, you will know almost all the game world (even if you are not an explorer).

You will understand why Vanguard has a nice concept but a  limited and very unpolished execution... but even so, you can also fall in love with this game and forget the issues...

In Everquest 2 when you reach level 60 the content expand and you will realize you are indeed in a mmorg where you can experience new and exciting content for a long time , will you have tons of real Dungeons and Raids, at level 70-80 will you have even more.

In Vanguard the opposite happens, what you call freedom, what people call tons of content is much, much less than what we have in Everquest 2 and even in new games like AION where the PvP will help to expand the end game.

At level 10-29 you will probably have the impression Vanguard is huge but after 35+ you will see the game is limited in content, creatures and unique areas and forget about diplomacy.

Anyway it is just my opinion, good luck

 

 

 

Wow really!?!  A game that has been out for about 5 years longer than Vanguard has more content? 

Aaaah, laugh! That cracked me up! :D

The problem some people have with games makes me believe they have more of a problem with themselves than with the game.

Seriously ! Its not like Vanguard would repeat one and the same kind of mob again and again throughout the levels. Yes, some models get reused. But other models are unique to the level.

For example, the Djinns from RI/NN, I really dont remember them from other places of the game world.

Oh, and I'm maxlevel and have a Griffon. But I still know areas where I have never been before (although they really grew rare now). I just recently just started to fly around for some hours and visited whole chunks of content I've never seen before.

Yeah sure I would immediately want a game thats even larger than that. But Vanguard IS very big.

Originally posted by hybridfury

 

Wow really!?!  A game that has been out for about 5 years longer than Vanguard has more content? 

And what about newer games like Aion and even Age of Conan?

Just take a look how their end and middle game are growing and expanding given their playerbase more options, remember, more options = to more real freedom.

You don't like these games? It doesn't matter it is not the point.

...

Originally posted by CristianCeo

@Umbral and the others you may be right, maybe the game will be boring and all you said but until now no game made me this excited about playing it and that is why i posted about it.

     I think i will have plenty of things to do since i am not a raid/instance whore :) more like the RP type of player. EQ2 doesn't appeal to me because i played it for a little and the char's body is disproportionately. The legs are too small compared to the rest of the body.   And also i heard the game is instanced like a mofo. I don't like my game to load when i go from one zone to another it breaks the gameplay for me and the immersion.

 I used EQ2 as an example, Lineage 2 has a seamless world without the small loadings Vanguard has.

It doesn't matter EQ2 doesn't appeal to you, you were talking about freedom.

Freedom is a MMO is not just "I can walk in a seamless World", in that case Lineage 2 would be perfect and far better than Vanguard.

When you have options at the end game , when you can decide what to do and what you decide really works, this is freedom, in older games like Lineage 2, Everquest 2, WoW and even Guild Wars (when expanded), you have more options, more freedom at the mid/endgame than Vanguard.

Newer games like Aion, Lotro and even War and AoC have more options than VG.

My point is, and you may realize it soon, Vanguard is not what seems, when you start...well, I already said all to you, but you considered only what I said about EQ2, a game you don't like because you heard something about it...

Anyway, you may fall in love with Vanguard, but lets at least be honest about the game.

Good luck and have fun.

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

What Umbral said is correct. The initial impression of VG will give is that of "oooos and ahhhhs" from everything surrounding you. But of course, what game doesn't? The opposite effect does happen with VG. Its a game that recycles itself for usage. They bit off more than they can chew and its the players who have to put up with it. VG's "free" pota expansion is like a bug fix patch to any other mmo.

Exactly!

In my opinion, a pseudo seamless world (remember Lineage 2 and even WoW have a better seamless concept) is not enough when you have less (functional) gameplay options after the lower levels than older and newer games.

Vanguard is a nice game and it could be a fantastic game. But its "freedom" is just an illusion.

...

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by CristianCeo

@Umbral and the others you may be right, maybe the game will be boring and all you said but until now no game made me this excited about playing it and that is why i posted about it.

     I think i will have plenty of things to do since i am not a raid/instance whore :) more like the RP type of player. EQ2 doesn't appeal to me because i played it for a little and the char's body is disproportionately. The legs are too small compared to the rest of the body.   And also i heard the game is instanced like a mofo. I don't like my game to load when i go from one zone to another it breaks the gameplay for me and the immersion.

 

 I used EQ2 as an example, Lineage 2 has a seamless world without the small loadings Vanguard has.

It doesn't matter EQ2 doesn't appeal to you, you were talking about freedom.

Freedom is a MMO is not just "I can walk in a seamless World", in that case Lineage 2 would be perfect and far better than Vanguard.

When you have options at the end game , when you can decide what to do and what you decide really works, this is freedom, in older games like Lineage 2, Everquest 2, WoW and even Guild Wars (when expanded), you have more options, more freedom at the mid/endgame than Vanguard.

Newer games like Aion, Lotro and even War and AoC have more options than VG.

My point is, and you may realize it soon, Vanguard is not what seems, when you start...well, I already said all to you, but you considered only what I said about EQ2, a game you don't like because you heard something about it...

Anyway, you may fall in love with Vanguard, but lets at least be honest about the game.

Good luck and have fun.

You pitch EQ2 to people on VG forums all the time. I rarely come here anymore but I can see nothing changes over time. You're friendly about it, you have good information, but you also push your opinions down people's throat. That never works, just accept people are different, it will make your life a little easier.

I felt immersed the moment I played VG until the moment I stopped. EQ2 I had lots of fun too, but I didn't feel immersed at any point. I didn't feel freedom to do what I wanted. More content does not equal more "freedom". And L2... c'mon dude, you're trying to pitch a hardcore asian grinder, where you repetitive kill mobs over and over again to get .1% experience as freedom and immersion? L2 is great for PvP if you can suffer through the game to get their, but come now, you should be a little more "honest".

Ceo, I will admit, level's 40-50 can be a little tedious and boring. And I don't raid, so once I got to 49, I quit and moved on. But it was one of my favorite MMOs through the journey. Just keep playing it until it's not fun anymore, that's all anyone can do.

Cereo.

I have no intention to push my opinions down people´s throat.

Personally I had great immersive moments in Vanguard, I was just expressing my opinion about freedom in these games.

Lineage 2 has some issues, the grind is not so problematic these days  but the bad community killed it for me.

Anyway... the amount of freedom is incredible in this game (Lineage2), not only the seamless world but some gameplay aspects too.

Yes, I usually talk about EQ2 here.

Anyway, my point (and the subject) is freedom and in my opinion a player has more freedom in Everquest 2 and Lineage 2 and even AION (sure in different ways) than in Vanguard especially at the end game.

...

I havent played VG in about 8 months but I do have many fond memories from it. I have also played EQ2 and Lineage II as well and I can safely say that VG was a much more enjoyable experience than these other 2 games. Not only is Lineage II a typical asian mmo grind-fest but you also have to contend with the legions of gold farming botters, which if you try to adventure in their farming area they will call other botters in to keep PKing you until you leave. Yes, seamless world but not a fun world.
As to EQ2, it is an OK world but full of Zones and instances and you are also limited to where you can go in each zone as each zones has a fair amount of terrain barriers that gives you the feeling of being herded.
EQ2 and Lineage II never gave me the feel of being in a "Living World" where as VG did.
With VG's chunks I never had to wait longer than 1 or 2 secs between chunks so, for me, the game did seem pretty seamless. WOW isnt seamless in the least and their graphics are horrid(for my taste anyway) but I do understand that if they were any better then many of the current player's computers would be able to run that game.

With that said, VG is what it is, and that is a niche game with a small dedicated playerbase who seem to enjoy the game. Both are owned by SOE but VG has about 6 devs working on it and EQ2 has about 60+ devs on staff. If SOE were to give the 60+ devs to VG and leave only 6 devs on EQ2 then you would see major improvments to VG on a regular basis.

My personal view is that SOE's new top secret fantasy MMO will be ALOT like VG but perhaps with an EQ background.

Originally posted by Umbral

Cereo.

I have no intention to push my opinions down people´s throat.

Personally I had great immersive moments in Vanguard, I was just expressing my opinion about freedom in these games.

Lineage 2 has some issues, the grind is not so problematic these days  but the bad community killed it for me.

Anyway... the amount of freedom is incredible in this game (Lineage2), not only the seamless world but some gameplay aspects too.

Yes, I usually talk about EQ2 here.

Anyway, my point (and the subject) is freedom and in my opinion a player has more freedom in Everquest 2 and Lineage 2 and even AION (sure in different ways) than in Vanguard especially at the end game.

...

 

I've never played Lineage 2 other then in beta when I decided I didn't like it.  However I have played wow and aion and neither of these games are seamless...  Just because wow doesn't have a loading screen doesn't make it zoneless or seamless.  Wow is a game where they have carved out zones with either rivers or channels that connect other zones but you are still enclosed in a very artificial unreal environment.  Aion is also setup similarly with a number of large connected zones more akin to EQ2 based on my experiences in the beta.

As far as I know VG is the only really seamless world implementation....

Just one other thing AoC gives gamers freedom?!?  That was kinda bad.  AoC is a very linear game with really only one thing to do, ie fight players, fight mobs...  Crafting is still poor, harvesting is boring and not much else.

VG has the most complete crafting system of any game you mentioned and the harvesting and deplomacy systems are also better then other games.  So I'm pretty uncliear how you define VG as having less options for the player.  

I've been playing eq2 and am starting on LoTR.  I think both are good games.  I'd say mentoring in eq2 is a brilliant feature but other then that eq2 is rather average.  Great housing and below average combat system.  LoTR actually seems like a very good game right now.  I think LoTR classes and combat are pretty good.  I think it is second only to VG and not far behind.  I think the instances are good.  Quests are mostly ok but some are unique and clever.  The lore is nice.

But I still think there is more freedom in terms of things to do in VG then these other games.  I just wish that VG was more polished and had more develpment adding new polished content.  Whats theie in VG is good and could be great with a bit more polish.

THANKS CEREO!

@Umbral well yea i kinda felt you were tring to push EQ2 down my throat!

+++ I am sorry you feel that for VG for me freedom doesn't mean what L2 has to offer COME ON you seriously trying to pitch that game for me? L2 was the first MMO i paid a subscription for played it for 1 1/2 years old and was great THEN but not now.

    I played all the mmos you listed + a lot other except EQ2 wich i played for a couple of hours and i am tellin you VG is the only game i feel that really gives me freedom and it's not only for the fact that it has a big world but for the fact that i can jump in my boat and sail anywhere i want + many other things wich really get me immersed.

   Too bad you don't feel the same about VG , but that's what i feel and i am happy i found a game that gives me that!

Originally posted by ethion

 

I've never played Lineage 2 other then in beta when I decided I didn't like it.  However I have played wow and aion and neither of these games are seamless...  Just because wow doesn't have a loading screen doesn't make it zoneless or seamless.  Wow is a game where they have carved out zones with either rivers or channels that connect other zones but you are still enclosed in a very artificial unreal environment.  Aion is also setup similarly with a number of large connected zones more akin to EQ2 based on my experiences in the beta.

Ethion, I never said AION is seamless. I said with the amount of options you have at mid/endgame in AION, a player has more functional freedom than Vanguard.

WoW is pseudo seamless yes , we can say the same about Vanguard and its chunkys, Lineage 2 would be true seamless than.

I am not saying someone should like Lineage 2 and not Vanguard, just talking about freedom of gameplay, choices etc.

 

As far as I know VG is the only really seamless world implementation....

No.

Just one other thing AoC gives gamers freedom?!?  That was kinda bad.  AoC is a very linear game with really only one thing to do, ie fight players, fight mobs...  Crafting is still poor, harvesting is boring and not much else.

I don't think you understood, with the last updates AoC gives choices at endgame, choices of gameplay = Freedom.

The idea you only get more freedom with crafting or diplomacy is an illusion, diplomacy is broken and unfinished anyway. Content, Raids, Dungeons, PvE are choices of gameplay, choices = Freedom.

Check out what you can do in Lineage 2, seamless world (no chunkys), you can equip all armors with penalty, pvp freedom, trade freedom etc.

VG has the most complete crafting system of any game you mentioned and the harvesting and deplomacy systems are also better then other games.  So I'm pretty uncliear how you define VG as having less options for the player.  

EQ/EQ2 card game is far mor complete than Diplomacy today.

Crafting is just one option, when we talk about content, and especially endgame choices and gameplay, yes, VG has less options.

I've been playing eq2 and am starting on LoTR.  I think both are good games.  I'd say mentoring in eq2 is a brilliant feature but other then that eq2 is rather average.  Great housing and below average combat system.  LoTR actually seems like a very good game right now.  I think LoTR classes and combat are pretty good.  I think it is second only to VG and not far behind.  I think the instances are good.  Quests are mostly ok but some are unique and clever.  The lore is nice.

Now we are talking about opinions, what you like and what I like, this is not the case, I prefer VG than Lineage 2, but the topic is Freedom, Lineage 2 is far superior in that area.

But I still think there is more freedom in terms of things to do in VG then these other games.  I just wish that VG was more polished and had more develpment adding new polished content.  Whats theie in VG is good and could be great with a bit more polish.

Content/choices = Freedom in my argument.

Just an undeveloped open world is not enough after the first levels to represent freedom, you may disagree, I am ok with it:).

Originally posted by CristianCeo

THANKS CEREO!

@Umbral well yea i kinda felt you were tring to push EQ2 down my throat!

Why ? I never said you should play EQ2!

What I said ( and sorry, it is true) is, when you reach higher levels in EQ2 the content expand, you understand you will have a lot to do , you will have a myriad of choices.

When you start VG you think you are in a huge game world, when you reach higher levels the opposite happens, you understand the game is totally unbalanced and limited in progression, you understand that the freedom you had walking around in a illusionary seamless world ends fast, your character progression, your gameplay choices, your FREEDOM is very limited.

+++ I am sorry you feel that for VG for me freedom doesn't mean what L2 has to offer COME ON you seriously trying to pitch that game for me? L2 was the first MMO i paid a subscription for played it for 1 1/2 years old and was great THEN but not now.

I really don't care what you game you will play, as I said, good luck with Vanguard.

We are talking about freedom, right?

We are not selling games here...

After one year in Vanguard, tell me wich one has more Freedom, Lineage 2 or Vanguard.

It is good to know you are enjoying Vanguard, but a community that talks openly about a game and its issues has more probabilities to see this game expand and improve than a community that try to belive the game is just amazing.

It doesn't matter what game you like, what game I like, but the truth is, when we talk about real gameplay options and content (upcoming content too) Vanguard doesn't has more options (Freedom) than older and newer games, especially at end game.

But if you like it play it and have fun :)

 

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by CristianCeo

THANKS CEREO!

@Umbral well yea i kinda felt you were tring to push EQ2 down my throat!

Why ? I never said you should play EQ2!

What I said ( and sorry, it is true) is, when you reach higher levels in EQ2 the content expand, you understand you will have a lot to do , you will have a myriad of choices.

When you start VG you think you are in a huge game world, when you reach higher levels the opposite happens, you understand the game is totally unbalanced and limited in progression, you understand that the freedom you had walking around in a illusionary seamless world ends fast, your character progression, your gameplay choices, your FREEDOM is very limited.

+++ I am sorry you feel that for VG for me freedom doesn't mean what L2 has to offer COME ON you seriously trying to pitch that game for me? L2 was the first MMO i paid a subscription for played it for 1 1/2 years old and was great THEN but not now.

I really don't care what you game you will play, as I said, good luck with Vanguard.

We are talking about freedom, right?

We are not selling games here...

After one year in Vanguard, tell me wich one has more Freedom, Lineage 2 or Vanguard.

It is good to know you are enjoying Vanguard, but a community that talks openly about a game and its issues has more probabilities to see this game expand and improve than a community that try to belive the game is just amazing.

It doesn't matter what game you like, what game I like, but the truth is, when we talk about real gameplay options and content (upcoming content too) Vanguard doesn't has more options (Freedom) than older and newer games, especially at end game.

But if you like it play it and have fun :)

 

 

UO has more freedom than all the games you've listed. Skill based games have more freedom than level based games. It doesnt restrict you to a certain class, or crafter. With its house customization, your possibilities are almost endless. You can go treasure hunting, and tame a huge variety of animals/monsters. Those are jsut something that makes UO truely uniques because no other game has those features.

Originally posted by csthao

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by CristianCeo

THANKS CEREO!

@Umbral well yea i kinda felt you were tring to push EQ2 down my throat!

Why ? I never said you should play EQ2!

What I said ( and sorry, it is true) is, when you reach higher levels in EQ2 the content expand, you understand you will have a lot to do , you will have a myriad of choices.

When you start VG you think you are in a huge game world, when you reach higher levels the opposite happens, you understand the game is totally unbalanced and limited in progression, you understand that the freedom you had walking around in a illusionary seamless world ends fast, your character progression, your gameplay choices, your FREEDOM is very limited.

+++ I am sorry you feel that for VG for me freedom doesn't mean what L2 has to offer COME ON you seriously trying to pitch that game for me? L2 was the first MMO i paid a subscription for played it for 1 1/2 years old and was great THEN but not now.

I really don't care what you game you will play, as I said, good luck with Vanguard.

We are talking about freedom, right?

We are not selling games here...

After one year in Vanguard, tell me wich one has more Freedom, Lineage 2 or Vanguard.

It is good to know you are enjoying Vanguard, but a community that talks openly about a game and its issues has more probabilities to see this game expand and improve than a community that try to belive the game is just amazing.

It doesn't matter what game you like, what game I like, but the truth is, when we talk about real gameplay options and content (upcoming content too) Vanguard doesn't has more options (Freedom) than older and newer games, especially at end game.

But if you like it play it and have fun :)

 

 

UO has more freedom than all the games you've listed. Skill based games have more freedom than level based games. It doesnt restrict you to a certain class, or crafter. With its house customization, your possibilities are almost endless. You can go treasure hunting, and tame a huge variety of animals/monsters. Those are jsut something that makes UO truely uniques because no other game has those features.

This is true. But on to VG's "seemless" is simple eye candy. It doesn't sell boxes..hell it doesn't even own boxes anymore. It can have all the seemless non-sense in the world but if it doesn't have content to back it up, then its just a simple sales pitch. Talk the talk but don't walk it = fail.

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by CristianCeo

  Wich game give you this HUUUUUUGE freedom? Name one just one, i know u can't because the is none!

 

 

Cristian Ceo, I am glad you are enjoying Vanguard...

 I noticed you are level 11/12, right? Well, I don't want to ruin your experience with this game as I really think you should enjoy it and have fun. But I do belive your enthusiasm with Vanguard is just a result of the initial positive experience Vanguard can offer.

Between level 30 and 40 you will realize Vanguard seems to be huge  but it in reality it is a small game.

At 30+ you will notice nothing in Vanguard will really surprise you anymore, you will see reused creatures, you will know almost all the game world (even if you are not an explorer).

You will understand why Vanguard has a nice concept but a  limited and very unpolished execution... but even so, you can also fall in love with this game and forget the issues...

In Everquest 2 when you reach level 60 the content expand and you will realize you are indeed in a mmorg where you can experience new and exciting content for a long time , will you have tons of real Dungeons and Raids, at level 70-80 will you have even more.

In Vanguard the opposite happens, what you call freedom, what people call tons of content is much, much less than what we have in Everquest 2 and even in new games like AION where the PvP will help to expand the end game.

At level 10-29 you will probably have the impression Vanguard is huge but after 35+ you will see the game is limited in content, creatures and unique areas and forget about diplomacy.

Anyway it is just my opinion, good luck

 

 

Completely untrue.   In fact, part of the problem is that people don't have the patience to let this game develop during the higher levels across all the spheres.

Originally posted by boojiboy

 

Completely untrue. 

Can you please tell-me how Vanguard expand and open more at high levels and not the opposite?

Of course, comparing with other games.

In the end, Xeonsoldier is right .Today the seamless world of Vanguard is nothing more than eye candy, when we talk about gameplay (functional) choices/content/endgame (remember choices= freedom) there are better options among newer, older, zoned, instanced and seamless games.

I agree and I can confirm from level 1 to level 18 Vanguard has a lot of options, freedom and choices everywhere, unfortunately, we can't say the same about mid/end game... character progression, locations, creatures  etc...

Originally posted by boojiboy

 

In fact, part of the problem is that people don't have the patience to let this game develop during the higher levels across all the spheres.

You are wrong Boojiboy, this kind of criticism comes from people who explored the game at higher levels including all those spheres ( 3 only, well, 2 as Diplomacy is unfinished and undeveloped).

I don't thing you understood, it is not a matter or patience, the higher level progression of Vanguard is limited, very limited comparing to other games... well, I already said that...

Anyway, it is a nice game and can offer some good moments and immersion while you are leveling.

 Vanguards largest problem seems to be that there is only four people working on it.

Which is a shame as the game itself has huge potential that likely never will be realised.

Originally posted by boojiboy

Completely untrue.   In fact, part of the problem is that people don't have the patience to let this game develop during the higher levels across all the spheres.

Just how many YEARS does vanguard need to develop?  Honestly the excuses are getting out of hand and blaming the players is so far off base it is ridiculous.

Vanguard had its shot.  It had a very rare second chance when soe bought it, but soe from minute one showed they were more interested in their stable of other games. 

Almost everyone predicted this would happen when soe bought the game and many others said the same thing the second soe partnered with sigil.  This is the reality come true.  Vanguard doesn't need time, it needed a developer that cared about its progress.

Originally posted by TormDK

 Vanguards largest problem seems to be that there is only four people working on it.

Which is a shame as the game itself has huge potential that likely never will be realised.

This is a part of the problem but its something the game has to live with. As for me, I am 55 in both adventuring and crafting, 50 in diplo, got every piece of gear, mount, you name it. My reasoning for speaking that the game is limited is because I compared my times in EQ/EQ2 even half-assed I felt way more limited in VG then I did in the other two games. Yeah the world is seemless, open and all that jazz but the world doesn't keep you occupied, I don't go around hugging trees for entertainment.

The potential for VG has died years back. ALL games have potential to be something huge not just VG. If L2 got rid of the bots and asian grind feel it could be massive. If WoW stopped being so gd easy, and change the graphics, it would be even more superior. Potential is dead across the board. Its either you produce, or you face the consequences of dealing with a mediocre or failed project.

But lets put it in perspective, yes EQ has been out for 10 years, yes WoW/EQ2 have been out for 5 years. But apparently, businesses will invest their time in those games because why? Their potential has been realized and they just continue with what works. VG had a decent formula going in the low end of the game but failed to do so in the upper end and it is costing them dearly. Loyal subscribers and a reputation. They don't need to be an mmo smash blockbuster 20 million sub game but they need to be on the level of decency and its not even that. Sporting sub 10k numbers is nothing to joke about. Whatever the game has presented, it isn't enough to attract players to get it back on its feet. Its the sad reality.

I can say this because I have done the little viral marketting gig, but the players I've drawn in, have all quit around the same mid point to high end of the game. Simply put, the seamless eye candy is all great, but you need much much more than that to survive in this mmo industry. VG succeeded in putting pictures on a game box, but failed in actually producing the game itself. It is just something we as mmo players have to accept. Granted SOE is working on some new flagship mmo that has been unnannounced, I am willing to bet all I have that they will take everything that VG had that worked and polish the living nonsense out of it.

Oh and crafting game, its cute but about 1 in 20 gamers actually choose a game because of a crafting system. It just doesn't sell like adventuring.

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by boojiboy

 

In fact, part of the problem is that people don't have the patience to let this game develop during the higher levels across all the spheres.

 

You are wrong Boojiboy, this kind of criticism comes from people who explored the game at higher levels including all those spheres ( 3 only, well, 2 as Diplomacy is unfinished and undeveloped).

I don't thing you understood, it is not a matter or patience, the higher level progression of Vanguard is limited, very limited comparing to other games... well, I already said that...

Anyway, it is a nice game and can offer some good moments and immersion while you are leveling.

What I am disputing is the assertion that one has seen it all by the time they hit their 30s.  That's a very misleading thing to tell a new player.  If one likes to raid, then there is a huge amount of content 50+ that will keep a normal player busy indefinitely.  That said, I know there are those that play hard core, and in hard core guilds and they are fiddling their fingers wanting more content.  But that would be true for ANY game for those that play 16-20 hours a day.  Personally, I can't even imagine that kind of play style. 

For someone that plays 15-20 hours a week (which is a lot), there is more to do at the higher levels than there is time for.  I'm still leveling crafting, still working on House and PotA quests for diplomacy.  I'm level 53 and I'm working on trials, we raid APW a couple times a week even though we've killed Kota.  Moving onto Guar and Fengrot soon. 

As for other MMOs... /shrug.  I've played most of them, but haven't have finished the end game in many.  What I do know is that a group of friends left Vanguard prior to PotA, went to WoW, maxed out, got all the top gear, beat all the raid mobs within 3 months and returned to VG for PotA and the level cap.  Also, our guild crosses both EQ2 and VG and the EQ2 players always swing back to VG once they've completed an expansion. 

Seems to me there is plenty to do in the VG end-game.  And if you play hard core, well, then you'll finish the content in just about any MMO you've played, especially if you've been playing for 2.5 years.

Originally posted by boojiboy

Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by boojiboy

 

In fact, part of the problem is that people don't have the patience to let this game develop during the higher levels across all the spheres.

 

You are wrong Boojiboy, this kind of criticism comes from people who explored the game at higher levels including all those spheres ( 3 only, well, 2 as Diplomacy is unfinished and undeveloped).

I don't thing you understood, it is not a matter or patience, the higher level progression of Vanguard is limited, very limited comparing to other games... well, I already said that...

Anyway, it is a nice game and can offer some good moments and immersion while you are leveling.

 

What I am disputing is the assertion that one has seen it all by the time they hit their 30s.  That's a very misleading thing to tell a new player.  If one likes to raid, then there is a huge amount of content 50+ that will keep a normal player busy indefinitely.  That said, I know there are those that play hard core, and in hard core guilds and they are fiddling their fingers wanting more content.  But that would be true for ANY game for those that play 16-20 hours a day.  Personally, I can't even imagine that kind of play style. 

For someone that plays 15-20 hours a week (which is a lot), there is more to do at the higher levels than there is time for.  I'm still leveling crafting, still working on House and PotA quests for diplomacy.  I'm level 53 and I'm working on trials, we raid APW a couple times a week even though we've killed Kota.  Moving onto Guar and Fengrot soon. 

As for other MMOs... /shrug.  I've played most of them, but haven't have finished the end game in many.  What I do know is that a group of friends left Vanguard prior to PotA, went to WoW, maxed out, got all the top gear, beat all the raid mobs within 3 months and returned to VG for PotA and the level cap.  Also, our guild crosses both EQ2 and VG and the EQ2 players always swing back to VG once they've completed an expansion. 

Seems to me there is plenty to do in the VG end-game.  And if you play hard core, well, then you'll finish the content in just about any MMO you've played, especially if you've been playing for 2.5 years.

I have to disagree with you here. My guild was considered hardcore but we rarely played hardcore. We played 3-4 nights a week 3-4 hours each of those nights. The casual efficient player can get through this game in no time.

Originally posted by boojiboy

What I am disputing is the assertion that one has seen it all by the time they hit their 30s.  That's a very misleading thing to tell a new player.  If one likes to raid, then there is a huge amount of content 50+ that will keep a normal player busy indefinitely.

You keep saying this, but somehow I don't think it is true.  You said it when vanguard has just 1 raid zone.  Now vanguard has a second, but the way they implemented it trivializes the first, so it essentially has one raid dungeon again and I doubt it is going to be enough to occupy people for another 1.5 years let alone indefinitely.

I don't know many people who would look at one raid dungeon and say "yep, that will keep me occupied indefinitely.".  Even with the absurb grind time put into the recent patch it doesn't make up for content.

You are the only person I have ever heard talk about all this end game conent and how only hardcore players could possibly do it all.  I mean it honestly took your guild 1.5 years to work your way through 1 dungeon?  Everything you write about your experiences says the content lasted as long as it did because of your guilds skill level and not the amount of content the game offers.   Sorry, but that is just how it reads.  

Some people just say whatever they think will get others to subscribe.

Vanguard is dead. 4 developers, 1 raid zone and all post 50 content is total crap. Every patch screws up the game more. Even the VG forums are dead. At this point, even if they fired Silius (the man responsible of Vanguards death) it wouldn't matter, the game and population are just too far gone.

/next mmorpg please

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by boojiboy

What I am disputing is the assertion that one has seen it all by the time they hit their 30s.  That's a very misleading thing to tell a new player.  If one likes to raid, then there is a huge amount of content 50+ that will keep a normal player busy indefinitely.

You keep saying this, but somehow I don't think it is true.  You said it when vanguard has just 1 raid zone.  Now vanguard has a second, but the way they implemented it trivializes the first, so it essentially has one raid dungeon again and I doubt it is going to be enough to occupy people for another 1.5 years let alone indefinitely.

I don't know many people who would look at one raid dungeon and say "yep, that will keep me occupied indefinitely.".  Even with the absurb grind time put into the recent patch it doesn't make up for content.

You are the only person I have ever heard talk about all this end game conent and how only hardcore players could possibly do it all.  I mean it honestly took your guild 1.5 years to work your way through 1 dungeon?  Everything you write about your experiences says the content lasted as long as it did because of your guilds skill level and not the amount of content the game offers.   Sorry, but that is just how it reads.  

Heh, nice.  So anyone that hasn't got through all the content is unskilled.  And anyone who has is simply a casual player.  That is BS and you know it.  You are past the point of absurity.  Haven't we been through this before?  Check out the progression thread.  How many have finished APW, all the overland mobs, Bridge of Destiny, Isle of Garzumut and finished all 12 trials?  If it was so damn easy for the casual player just to cruise through all that, then why is it such a small list of guilds?

Once again, sure, hard-core, no life, no job, no kids, play every day, burn up the content as fast as possible sure.  Average player, no way.