Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Forum » General Discussion » SOE sitting on GOLD MINE!

Originally posted by Typwn

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

You know it sickens me so much how people think VG has so much depth that it makes other games look like crap. The graphics are nice for its taste, Aion's graphics are great for its taste, same with AoC. The depth in VG is nice but they lack in creativity. Then again, someone needs to explain to me the "depth" that we're talking about. If you're speaking of unnecessary details then maybe. But just from speaking off the top of my head:

- VG has the least amount of Lore that ties with gameplay.
- VG's crafting system has depth, but also frustrations that come with it.
- VG's combat is equivilant to every mmo out there.
- VG's classes are the same in concept as EQ/WoW. Where there are no tree/branch offs.
- VG has 3 spheres as most games have 2. Even still the 3rd sphere is neglected like no other.
- VG has art depth. Yes, the game has eye-candy. What's ironic is the games that have less eye-candy are more successful?
- Other games have depth in the pockets. VG doesn't.

 

You know it sickens so much me when people who haven't played Vanguard make a response like they have. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, which anyone who plays Vanguard can plainly see. Allow me to counter your points.

Vanguard has a overwhelming amount of lore, ALL of which ties in with the gameplay. A short look at www.vgtact.com will show you the depth and some of the storylines for Diplomacy, which does in fact directly tie-in with gameplay. You can play the Isle of Dawn yourself and see how wrong you are.

Crafting in Vanguard is given the same attention as Adventuring and Diplomacy. They take time and dedication, just like anything in an MMO. Adventuring can be frustrating at times, thus so can Crafting and yes even Diplomacy. They all have their own story lines, quests, equipment, and progression paths.

Combat in Vanguard uses hotbars for skills, but the variety of skills, abilities, finishers, counters, rescues, stances, commands, battle cries, forms, judgements, boons, blessings, endowments, songs, and buffs keep the combat fresh and exciting. The difficulty of Vanguard also makes for some great times in a dungeon or just out questing with friends.

Vanguards classes might be named similar to classes in EQ and WoW, but their gameplay styles, skills, and abilities differ greatly and give a very unique experience. A Necromancer is a spell caster with a pet, but in Vanguard a Necromancer harvests parts from corpses to modify their abominations with stats, skills, and buffs. Bloodmages are healers that use their blood to cast many of their spells, and symbiotes to control enemies and fortify allies. Classes also have branching trees, such as Ranger and Shaman, but you also have Attribute points you can freely distribute to any stat you want.

Diplomacy is far from neglected, and is one of the most fulfilling experiences in Vanguard if you're into lore, novels, stories, riddles, and mysteries. It's very exciting to manipulate NPCs and follow the story, befriending someone only to betray them later, or have to assassinate someone and blame it on a village of brute attempting a peace treaty. You've never experienced it, so I can understand why you might think it neglected.

Your last two points aren't points at all, as they don't support your argument. I could go on and on about what makes Vanguard a deep and involving experience but you can play it for yourself instead of posting what you think the game is like. Play the Isle of Dawn and quit talking out your ass.

Dam dude after you just described all that im thinking about trying the free trial again. Seriously one of the best posts ive seen on this game

Originally posted by Typwn

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

You know it sickens me so much how people think VG has so much depth that it makes other games look like crap. The graphics are nice for its taste, Aion's graphics are great for its taste, same with AoC. The depth in VG is nice but they lack in creativity. Then again, someone needs to explain to me the "depth" that we're talking about. If you're speaking of unnecessary details then maybe. But just from speaking off the top of my head:

- VG has the least amount of Lore that ties with gameplay.
- VG's crafting system has depth, but also frustrations that come with it.
- VG's combat is equivilant to every mmo out there.
- VG's classes are the same in concept as EQ/WoW. Where there are no tree/branch offs.
- VG has 3 spheres as most games have 2. Even still the 3rd sphere is neglected like no other.
- VG has art depth. Yes, the game has eye-candy. What's ironic is the games that have less eye-candy are more successful?
- Other games have depth in the pockets. VG doesn't.

 

You know it sickens so much me when people who haven't played Vanguard make a response like they have. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, which anyone who plays Vanguard can plainly see. Allow me to counter your points.

Vanguard has a overwhelming amount of lore, ALL of which ties in with the gameplay. A short look at www.vgtact.com will show you the depth and some of the storylines for Diplomacy, which does in fact directly tie-in with gameplay. You can play the Isle of Dawn yourself and see how wrong you are.

Crafting in Vanguard is given the same attention as Adventuring and Diplomacy. They take time and dedication, just like anything in an MMO. Adventuring can be frustrating at times, thus so can Crafting and yes even Diplomacy. They all have their own story lines, quests, equipment, and progression paths.

Combat in Vanguard uses hotbars for skills, but the variety of skills, abilities, finishers, counters, rescues, stances, commands, battle cries, forms, judgements, boons, blessings, endowments, songs, and buffs keep the combat fresh and exciting. The difficulty of Vanguard also makes for some great times in a dungeon or just out questing with friends.

Vanguards classes might be named similar to classes in EQ and WoW, but their gameplay styles, skills, and abilities differ greatly and give a very unique experience. A Necromancer is a spell caster with a pet, but in Vanguard a Necromancer harvests parts from corpses to modify their abominations with stats, skills, and buffs. Bloodmages are healers that use their blood to cast many of their spells, and symbiotes to control enemies and fortify allies. Classes also have branching trees, such as Ranger and Shaman, but you also have Attribute points you can freely distribute to any stat you want.

Diplomacy is far from neglected, and is one of the most fulfilling experiences in Vanguard if you're into lore, novels, stories, riddles, and mysteries. It's very exciting to manipulate NPCs and follow the story, befriending someone only to betray them later, or have to assassinate someone and blame it on a village of brute attempting a peace treaty. You've never experienced it, so I can understand why you might think it neglected.

Your last two points aren't points at all, as they don't support your argument. I could go on and on about what makes Vanguard a deep and involving experience but you can play it for yourself instead of posting what you think the game is like. Play the Isle of Dawn and quit talking out your ass.

Sorry guy, I've played VG for possibly longer than most people have even known about the game.

Originally posted by Typwn

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

You know it sickens me so much how people think VG has so much depth that it makes other games look like crap. The graphics are nice for its taste, Aion's graphics are great for its taste, same with AoC. The depth in VG is nice but they lack in creativity. Then again, someone needs to explain to me the "depth" that we're talking about. If you're speaking of unnecessary details then maybe. But just from speaking off the top of my head:

- VG has the least amount of Lore that ties with gameplay.
- VG's crafting system has depth, but also frustrations that come with it.
- VG's combat is equivilant to every mmo out there.
- VG's classes are the same in concept as EQ/WoW. Where there are no tree/branch offs.
- VG has 3 spheres as most games have 2. Even still the 3rd sphere is neglected like no other.
- VG has art depth. Yes, the game has eye-candy. What's ironic is the games that have less eye-candy are more successful?
- Other games have depth in the pockets. VG doesn't.

 

You know it sickens so much me when people who haven't played Vanguard make a response like they have. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, which anyone who plays Vanguard can plainly see. Allow me to counter your points.

I'll go a bit deeper, I've been an active subscriber/player/tester of VG since mid 2007 in beta. Did not do the whole, take a break and come back 9 months thing either.

Vanguard has a overwhelming amount of lore, ALL of which ties in with the gameplay. A short look at www.vgtact.com will show you the depth and some of the storylines for Diplomacy, which does in fact directly tie-in with gameplay. You can play the Isle of Dawn yourself and see how wrong you are.

I am a level 50 Diplo, have been for years. I've seen all the lore. You completely misread what I posted. Lore that TIES into gameplay. Its fine up until level 40 when it completely drops off the map and they have to make up schemes to make it seem like lore. I've read all the lore since its been available. I know what it is.

Crafting in Vanguard is given the same attention as Adventuring and Diplomacy. They take time and dedication, just like anything in an MMO. Adventuring can be frustrating at times, thus so can Crafting and yes even Diplomacy. They all have their own story lines, quests, equipment, and progression paths.

Um? How long have you been playing? Crafting is no ways near as large as the adventuring sphere. Diplomacy is not even as large either. Diplomacy is the most mind numbing of them all even if you take the time to read it. The gear is easy to obtain and sad of it all, it can be macro'd to ease. The diplomacy sphere hasn't recieved any REAL content since they implemented diplomacy with the Yerkj encounter in IoG. Crafting the same way. Oh wait nevermind, its hot now, since you have to do spellcrafting :o.

Combat in Vanguard uses hotbars for skills, but the variety of skills, abilities, finishers, counters, rescues, stances, commands, battle cries, forms, judgements, boons, blessings, endowments, songs, and buffs keep the combat fresh and exciting. The difficulty of Vanguard also makes for some great times in a dungeon or just out questing with friends.

Um yes yes and yes. Its the same combat my friend. Finishers are just abilities you can do after you critical hit. Once you reach the end game, you crit after almost every hit. Counters are just abilities you use after you block/parry/dodge. Rescues, FT immunity has made rescues obsolete since the introduction of APW. Stances, ok I'm offensive now I'm defensive, now I can dodge a bit more, I've never seen it in such a game...Battle Cries yes the system that warriors have had since god knows how long and yet its still useless? Commands, another 8s buff warriors have to offer. Judgements, ok so paladins can put out more hate with their shield concentrations, you get the idea. All these thing are quite nice, but its nothing new to MMO combat. They are only abilities that light up on your hotbar after a certain action happens and guess what, you press it. And don't get me started on difficulty.

Vanguards classes might be named similar to classes in EQ and WoW, but their gameplay styles, skills, and abilities differ greatly and give a very unique experience. A Necromancer is a spell caster with a pet, but in Vanguard a Necromancer harvests parts from corpses to modify their abominations with stats, skills, and buffs. Bloodmages are healers that use their blood to cast many of their spells, and symbiotes to control enemies and fortify allies. Classes also have branching trees, such as Ranger and Shaman, but you also have Attribute points you can freely distribute to any stat you want.

Well atleast we agree sorta on something. But the concepts are the same. I played a necro in EQ1 for 5 years, the necro in VG just makes me never want to play a necro again since they f'd it up so hardcore. Bloodmage/Disciple are the only classes they did "right" since they are their original ideas. Oh and attribute points, you can freely distibute up until lvl 51 when the devs somehow couldn't code it any further so its auto allocated up to 55. So much for freedom there... And class balancing, is so beyond out of control. Lets talk about tank balance shall we?

Diplomacy is far from neglected, and is one of the most fulfilling experiences in Vanguard if you're into lore, novels, stories, riddles, and mysteries. It's very exciting to manipulate NPCs and follow the story, befriending someone only to betray them later, or have to assassinate someone and blame it on a village of brute attempting a peace treaty. You've never experienced it, so I can understand why you might think it neglected.

Diplomacy is neglected sir. I did it to 50 twice. And I swear to never do it again. I do diplo to put up buffs for guild raids beforehand, that's the only use it has.

Your last two points aren't points at all, as they don't support your argument. I could go on and on about what makes Vanguard a deep and involving experience but you can play it for yourself instead of posting what you think the game is like. Play the Isle of Dawn and quit talking out your ass.

So if you want to talk about the game lets talk. But trust me, I'm no fool who hasn't played the game but talk shit about it. If I talk about it, I must know a thing or two about it, if not then I won't speak of it at all.

I'm not saying VG is a horrible game, there are goods to it but there are also bads to it.  For myself, when I bring players to the game, I give them the lowdown, let them know what they getting themselves into. What's sad and upsets players is when they are mislead. How many pms have I've gotten in game about "soandso said this was so great and now it sucks, I'm leaving". All I'm saying is, be fair. Before you claim the game is the holy grail of MMOs, you have to see it full 360 and not 180

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

I'll go a bit deeper, I've been an active subscriber/player/tester of VG since mid 2007 in beta. Did not do the whole, take a break and come back 9 months thing either...(cont.)

So if you want to talk about the game lets talk. But trust me, I'm no fool who hasn't played the game but talk shit about it. If I talk about it, I must know a thing or two about it, if not then I won't speak of it at all.

I'm not saying VG is a horrible game, there are goods to it but there are also bads to it.  For myself, when I bring players to the game, I give them the lowdown, let them know what they getting themselves into. What's sad and upsets players is when they are mislead. How many pms have I've gotten in game about "soandso said this was so great and now it sucks, I'm leaving". All I'm saying is, be fair. Before you claim the game is the holy grail of MMOs, you have to see it full 360 and not 180

I first got into Vanguard: Saga of Heroes beta in 2005, when Microsoft was at the helm. When the game released in January 2007 I played on one of the Team PVP servers (the name escapes me). So after nearly 5 years of Vanguard I still have yet to see everything there is to see in the game. In fact I've only seen majority of Qalia, some of Thestra, and part of Kojan (Martok side).

The difference is you're giving opinions and I'm giving facts. Give facts and let new and old players alike make their own decision. That's how you be fair. Not sure when you last played, and I'm very curious what your characters name and server is. Either way you obviously have a very strong opinion about it so I can only assume something pretty crappy happened to you, or you just haven't played in a while.

Edit: Also edit your double post so it's not some long wall of text...you should have just edited the first to begin with.

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

You know it sickens me so much how people think VG has so much depth that it makes other games look like crap. The graphics are nice for its taste, Aion's graphics are great for its taste, same with AoC. The depth in VG is nice but they lack in creativity. Then again, someone needs to explain to me the "depth" that we're talking about. If you're speaking of unnecessary details then maybe. But just from speaking off the top of my head:

- VG has the least amount of Lore that ties with gameplay.
- VG's crafting system has depth, but also frustrations that come with it.
- VG's combat is equivilant to every mmo out there.
- VG's classes are the same in concept as EQ/WoW. Where there are no tree/branch offs.
- VG has 3 spheres as most games have 2. Even still the 3rd sphere is neglected like no other.
- VG has art depth. Yes, the game has eye-candy. What's ironic is the games that have less eye-candy are more successful?
- Other games have depth in the pockets. VG doesn't.

I believe that you've played VG a long time Xeon, which is why I'm very surprised at the things you've said above.

I happen to think that Xeon knows exactly what he is talking about.

Just because you foolish little spammers don't like his message, you say he hasnt played the game or he hasnt played it long enough. Wake up fellas. Clearly he has an understanding of Vanguard that far exceeds your fanboi scams tricking people into subscribing or thinking everything is going just great.

Subs are down

Lore has been ravaged by Silius' gameplay 'enhancements'

Diplomacy still has tons of unfinished quests has been 90% ignored

Crafters have gotten little attention and gear has been devalued by over-powered drops and quest items

...and now players are wearing giant shoulders pads -- GEE, I wonder where they got that idea...

Originally posted by Trueth .

Subs are down

Lore has been ravaged by Silius' gameplay 'enhancements'

Diplomacy still has tons of unfinished quests has been 90% ignored

Crafters have gotten little attention and gear has been devalued by over-powered drops and quest items

...and now players are wearing giant shoulders pads -- GEE, I wonder where they got that idea...

Subs are up actually, the lore hasn't changed in two years, it'd been added to and it's still being worked on and no it's not being ignored. It's a huge game with a small team working on it, and they are doing some amazing things. Lots of stuff being added next patch. Crafters have gotten lots of attention, not sure what path you're referring to exactly. And the giant shoulder pads are a bug....

Originally posted by Typwn

Subs are up actually, the lore hasn't changed in two years, it'd been added to and it's still being worked on and no it's not being ignored. It's a huge game with a small team working on it, and they are doing some amazing things. Lots of stuff being added next patch. Crafters have gotten lots of attention, not sure what path you're referring to exactly. And the giant shoulder pads are a bug....

Oh stop.

Subs are not up. Sartok has 50 people online East Coast Prime Time.

• Kill on sight faction was removed.
• Developers have stated that there is NO  MORE good or evil classes/races, contrarary to how it was at release.
• diplomacy quests/writs focus on war between the races, but is now moot because of the lack of kos/good vs. evil.
• Racial mounts are anything but racial - Dark elves ride blackwidows, yet worship a dragon god.
• Silius has raped lore. He has added Gnomes with laser guns and things like Kamellot Incorporated.

 Lore has changed, and not for the better.

Crafters got lots of attention? Like what? Galleons that are epic, yet completed within 24 hours of release? Do you play the game or just post lies about it? Because quested and dropped gear has gotten major stat upgrades, including AC stats for swords, yet crafted gear has gotten crap. In fact, quested and dropped gear even got a level requirment reduction, making crafted gear even more useless. Combine that with the fact that people level so quickly now that crafted gear isn't even needed and you have a crafting sphere that has been next to ignored.

Originally posted by Typwn

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

I'll go a bit deeper, I've been an active subscriber/player/tester of VG since mid 2007 in beta. Did not do the whole, take a break and come back 9 months thing either...(cont.)

So if you want to talk about the game lets talk. But trust me, I'm no fool who hasn't played the game but talk shit about it. If I talk about it, I must know a thing or two about it, if not then I won't speak of it at all.

I'm not saying VG is a horrible game, there are goods to it but there are also bads to it.  For myself, when I bring players to the game, I give them the lowdown, let them know what they getting themselves into. What's sad and upsets players is when they are mislead. How many pms have I've gotten in game about "soandso said this was so great and now it sucks, I'm leaving". All I'm saying is, be fair. Before you claim the game is the holy grail of MMOs, you have to see it full 360 and not 180

 

I first got into Vanguard: Saga of Heroes beta in 2005, when Microsoft was at the helm. When the game released in January 2007 I played on one of the Team PVP servers (the name escapes me). So after nearly 5 years of Vanguard I still have yet to see everything there is to see in the game. In fact I've only seen majority of Qalia, some of Thestra, and part of Kojan (Martok side).

The difference is you're giving opinions and I'm giving facts. Give facts and let new and old players alike make their own decision. That's how you be fair. Not sure when you last played, and I'm very curious what your characters name and server is. Either way you obviously have a very strong opinion about it so I can only assume something pretty crappy happened to you, or you just haven't played in a while.

Edit: Also edit your double post so it's not some long wall of text...you should have just edited the first to begin with.

Nothing at all has happened to me. The both of our posts are opinions, neither are "facts" persay. Players have made their decisions since 2007. The "facts" are quite clear that the game wasn't up to snuff of what the majority expected. Not the majority of the MMO community, but the majority of the players VG was originally slated for. But if you want facts, here they ware:

#1 Fact of Vanguard: SOE fucked over their development. Now I know some people want to get in on this arguement but its a cut dry situation, SOE was supposed to "save" Vanguard but they only got it above water so it was playable and told it to either Sink or Swim. They were moved into the offices to have better "tools" and closer to other development teams so they can lend help, but the real idea was so they could easily strip developers and place them on other projects (which has been proven to be dreadfully true). So those who try to defend for SOE by saying "atleast they did something" need to look at the big picture, its no secret what SOE's true intentions were for the game but cover themselves by marking things such as the POTA patch as "free expansions".

#2 Fact of Vanguard: The game has dried up potential. How many times have you heard "Vanguard has great potential"? Its without a doubt the game has great potential, but how long will can a game have potential after its been tossed around like a red headed step-child through mismanagement and financial neglect? Its no secret, we all know what Vanguard can do, keyword "can do", but granted its 2009, its nothing that other games "haven't done.

#3 Fact of Vanguard: The game's population is abysimal for the game that it is. Vanguard is the largest original game there has ever been. It sold around 300k boxes at launch, but since then due to my previous 2 facts of the game, it is now not even a fraction of it. The game deserves much much more but lets fact it, its not as attracting at it should be. This is judged by bad dev decisions, communication (they communicate when they have their backs' against a wall). And by bad dev decisions, the pota patch is enough to explain. Well, the raid game has definately taken a hit from its population.

There's some facts about Vanguard. Through its constant mismanagement, it will always be kept down as a 3rd rate mmo. Not the fact it is one, I see the game, its developers, and its business as seperate entities. Personally, I'd rather see VG be put in another companies hands and see the magic unfold. Even though it will never happen, the fact that VG isn't what it should've been because the higher ups didn't want it to.

Originally posted by Trueth

Oh stop.

 

Subs are not up. Sartok has 50 people online East Coast Prime Time.

 

Kill on sight faction was removed. Developers have stated that there is NO  MORE good or evil classes/races, contrarary to how it was at release, diplomacy quests/writs focus on war between the races, but is now moot because of the lack of kos/good vs. evil. Also racial mounts are anything but racial - Dark elves ride blackwidows, yet worship a dragon god. Lore hasn't changed, huh? silius has raped lore. He has added Gnomes with laser guns and things like Kamellot Incorporated.

 

Crafters got lots of attention? Like what? Galleons that are epic, yet completed within 24 hours of release? Do you play the game or just post lies about it?

I figured you played on a PVP server. Of course Sartok is dead, PVP is not majority of the MMO communities focus. PVE is vastly more popular, though the players who enjoy PVE aren't as vocal as those that enjoy PVP. I understand why KOS was removed and you should as well. The diplomacy that focuses on the war between the races is still valid, regardless if you feel it nessecary to lable a city or faction good or evil. Good and Evil are opinions based on your own beliefs, and those that do not agree with your views, opinions, or beliefs are usually considered evil.

Dark Elves ride Black Widow ground mounts, still use of their dragon blood in their racial, and still have Wyverns to fly in the skies. I don't see your point. A mount is merely a means of travel, it doesn't dictate any one cultures beliefs otherwise majority of the world must believe in the same thing, though we know that to be false.

Personally I liked the hidden dungeon where you fly around in the powersuit and have an epic lazer battle, and I also appriciate Kamellot Incorporated. And yes crafters got attention, in not just the recipes they can create but also equipment quest lines.

These arguments are still based on opinion, not fact. You might not agree with the direction of the lore, or insignificant system changes like KOS faction, but the core game is there there with an amazing list of features and content. And that is fact.

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

#1 Fact of Vanguard: SOE fucked over their development. Now I know some people want to get in on this arguement but its a cut dry situation, SOE was supposed to "save" Vanguard but they only got it above water so it was playable and told it to either Sink or Swim. They were moved into the offices to have better "tools" and closer to other development teams so they can lend help, but the real idea was so they could easily strip developers and place them on other projects (which has been proven to be dreadfully true). So those who try to defend for SOE by saying "atleast they did something" need to look at the big picture, its no secret what SOE's true intentions were for the game but cover themselves by marking things such as the POTA patch as "free expansions".

#2 Fact of Vanguard: The game has dried up potential. How many times have you heard "Vanguard has great potential"? Its without a doubt the game has great potential, but how long will can a game have potential after its been tossed around like a red headed step-child through mismanagement and financial neglect? Its no secret, we all know what Vanguard can do, keyword "can do", but granted its 2009, its nothing that other games "haven't done.

#3 Fact of Vanguard: The game's population is abysimal for the game that it is. Vanguard is the largest original game there has ever been. It sold around 300k boxes at launch, but since then due to my previous 2 facts of the game, it is now not even a fraction of it. The game deserves much much more but lets fact it, its not as attracting at it should be. This is judged by bad dev decisions, communication (they communicate when they have their backs' against a wall). And by bad dev decisions, the pota patch is enough to explain. Well, the raid game has definately taken a hit from its population.

There's some facts about Vanguard. Through its constant mismanagement, it will always be kept down as a 3rd rate mmo. Not the fact it is one, I see the game, its developers, and its business as seperate entities. Personally, I'd rather see VG be put in another companies hands and see the magic unfold. Even though it will never happen, the fact that VG isn't what it should've been because the higher ups didn't want it to.

1. There's only so much SOE can do with a game Microsoft started with and set the ground work for systems that are currently locked and needs to be completely recoded. When SOE picked it up they didn't touch it at all until AFTER release, it's only two and a half years later and the game has improved significantly. You're asking for miracles here, and expecting a business to act the opposite of a business.

2. Again your opinion. The potential everyone speaks of is reliant on the community. If more people played Vanguard, the community would grow, there would be more attention and money spent on it and your gripes would go away. That's how these things work. It has the potential to draw in a huge crowd of people that once played or never played and haven't seen what Vanguard can now do. That's the potential, the content is already there.

3. The games population is probably around 300,000 to 400,000. Xeth and Seradon clock up to High Population on the weekends, and it's growing larger everyday. Yes Sartok is dead, and Halgar isn't very popular, but Xeth and Seradon are healthy and well, and there is tons of raiding going on. I know my guild is extremely active with 250+ active people just by itself, so I'm not sure which server you play on but I never have a problem finding a group or raid.

Vanguard switching hands wouldn't do anything. People like you constantly taint the name 'Vanguard', so unless its name were changed (even then you'd call it out for used to being called Vanguard) it wouldn't get any larger.

Originally posted by Typwn

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

#1 Fact of Vanguard: SOE fucked over their development. Now I know some people want to get in on this arguement but its a cut dry situation, SOE was supposed to "save" Vanguard but they only got it above water so it was playable and told it to either Sink or Swim. They were moved into the offices to have better "tools" and closer to other development teams so they can lend help, but the real idea was so they could easily strip developers and place them on other projects (which has been proven to be dreadfully true). So those who try to defend for SOE by saying "atleast they did something" need to look at the big picture, its no secret what SOE's true intentions were for the game but cover themselves by marking things such as the POTA patch as "free expansions".

#2 Fact of Vanguard: The game has dried up potential. How many times have you heard "Vanguard has great potential"? Its without a doubt the game has great potential, but how long will can a game have potential after its been tossed around like a red headed step-child through mismanagement and financial neglect? Its no secret, we all know what Vanguard can do, keyword "can do", but granted its 2009, its nothing that other games "haven't done.

#3 Fact of Vanguard: The game's population is abysimal for the game that it is. Vanguard is the largest original game there has ever been. It sold around 300k boxes at launch, but since then due to my previous 2 facts of the game, it is now not even a fraction of it. The game deserves much much more but lets fact it, its not as attracting at it should be. This is judged by bad dev decisions, communication (they communicate when they have their backs' against a wall). And by bad dev decisions, the pota patch is enough to explain. Well, the raid game has definately taken a hit from its population.

There's some facts about Vanguard. Through its constant mismanagement, it will always be kept down as a 3rd rate mmo. Not the fact it is one, I see the game, its developers, and its business as seperate entities. Personally, I'd rather see VG be put in another companies hands and see the magic unfold. Even though it will never happen, the fact that VG isn't what it should've been because the higher ups didn't want it to.

 

1. There's only so much SOE can do with a game Microsoft started with and set the ground work for systems that are currently locked and needs to be completely recoded. When SOE picked it up they didn't touch it at all until AFTER release, it's only two and a half years later and the game has improved significantly. You're asking for miracles here, and expecting a business to act the opposite of a business.

2. Again your opinion. The potential everyone speaks of is reliant on the community. If more people played Vanguard, the community would grow, there would be more attention and money spent on it and your gripes would go away. That's how these things work. It has the potential to draw in a huge crowd of people that once played or never played and haven't seen what Vanguard can now do. That's the potential, the content is already there.

3. The games population is probably around 300,000 to 400,000. Xeth and Seradon clock up to High Population on the weekends, and it's growing larger everyday. Yes Sartok is dead, and Halgar isn't very popular, but Xeth and Seradon are healthy and well, and there is tons of raiding going on. I know my guild is extremely active with 250+ active people just by itself, so I'm not sure which server you play on but I never have a problem finding a group or raid.

Vanguard switching hands wouldn't do anything. People like you constantly taint the name 'Vanguard', so unless its name were changed (even then you'd call it out for used to being called Vanguard) it wouldn't get any larger.

The game's population is currently 300,000 - 400,000? Ok yeah now I'm really starting to question.

Originally posted by Typwn 

3. The games population is probably around 300,000 to 400,000. Xeth and Seradon clock up to High Population on the weekends, and it's growing larger everyday. Yes Sartok is dead, and Halgar isn't very popular, but Xeth and Seradon are healthy and well, and there is tons of raiding going on. I know my guild is extremely active with 250+ active people just by itself, so I'm not sure which server you play on but I never have a problem finding a group or raid.

 

Do you seriously believe 300k-400k people subscribe to vanguard? 

You realize that would make it soes most popular mmo by a long shot right?  Nothing else needs to be said beyond that and I think it paints a very accurate picture of how you see things.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Typwn 

3. The games population is probably around 300,000 to 400,000. Xeth and Seradon clock up to High Population on the weekends, and it's growing larger everyday. Yes Sartok is dead, and Halgar isn't very popular, but Xeth and Seradon are healthy and well, and there is tons of raiding going on. I know my guild is extremely active with 250+ active people just by itself, so I'm not sure which server you play on but I never have a problem finding a group or raid.

 

 

Do you seriously believe 300k-400k people subscribe to vanguard? 

 

You realize that would make it soes most popular mmo by a long shot right?  Nothing else needs to be said beyond that and I think it paints a very accurate picture of how you see things.

What are you referring to? EverQuest 2 has a HUGE subscribed player base of about 1-2million, EQ has about 500,000 to 1 Million as well. You're telling me you don't think 300,000 to 400,000 have access to playing Vanguard? I'm not saying they play every day of the week consistantly, I'm saying they have access to play through All Access Pass and free time given by SOE, as well as subscriptions to the game but perhaps not the time to play until the weekend. I would say the active player base is more around 200,000 to 300,000.

Originally posted by Typwn

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Typwn 

3. The games population is probably around 300,000 to 400,000. Xeth and Seradon clock up to High Population on the weekends, and it's growing larger everyday. Yes Sartok is dead, and Halgar isn't very popular, but Xeth and Seradon are healthy and well, and there is tons of raiding going on. I know my guild is extremely active with 250+ active people just by itself, so I'm not sure which server you play on but I never have a problem finding a group or raid.

 

 

Do you seriously believe 300k-400k people subscribe to vanguard? 

 

You realize that would make it soes most popular mmo by a long shot right?  Nothing else needs to be said beyond that and I think it paints a very accurate picture of how you see things.

What are you referring to? EverQuest 2 has a HUGE subscribed player base of about 1-2million, EQ has about 500,000 to 1 Million as well. You're telling me you don't think 300,000 to 400,000 have access to playing Vanguard? I'm not saying they play every day of the week consistantly, I'm saying they have access to play through All Access Pass and free time given by SOE, as well as subscriptions to the game but perhaps not the time to play until the weekend. I would say the active player base is more around 200,000 to 300,000.

EQ2 does not have 1 - 2 million subs. EQ does not have 500k - 1 million. VG does not have 300,000 - 400,000. Now I don't know the HARD numbers as no one does. But here's my toss at it:

EQ1: 100-200k
EQ2: 400-600k
VG: 20-40k

You do not even remotely think anyone would run a game with 2 content developers that has 300k-400k subscriber's base? Now I have to ask, when was the last time YOU played?

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

EQ2 does not have 1 - 2 million subs. EQ does not have 500k - 1 million. VG does not have 300,000 - 400,000. Now I don't know the HARD numbers as no one does. But here's my toss at it:

EQ1: 100-200k
EQ2: 400-600k
VG: 20-40k

You do not even remotely think anyone would run a game with 2 content developers that has 300k-400k subscriber's base? Now I have to ask, when was the last time YOU played?

I don't know about EQ or Vanguard, but that is a very accurate representation of EQ2's current population, give or take a couple thousand. Way more accurate then the 1-2million someone posted above. As far as I know the only NA MMO w/ over 1million subscribers is WoW.

Originally posted by Typwn

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Typwn 

3. The games population is probably around 300,000 to 400,000. Xeth and Seradon clock up to High Population on the weekends, and it's growing larger everyday. Yes Sartok is dead, and Halgar isn't very popular, but Xeth and Seradon are healthy and well, and there is tons of raiding going on. I know my guild is extremely active with 250+ active people just by itself, so I'm not sure which server you play on but I never have a problem finding a group or raid.

 

 

Do you seriously believe 300k-400k people subscribe to vanguard? 

 

You realize that would make it soes most popular mmo by a long shot right?  Nothing else needs to be said beyond that and I think it paints a very accurate picture of how you see things.

What are you referring to? EverQuest 2 has a HUGE subscribed player base of about 1-2million, EQ has about 500,000 to 1 Million as well. You're telling me you don't think 300,000 to 400,000 have access to playing Vanguard? I'm not saying they play every day of the week consistantly, I'm saying they have access to play through All Access Pass and free time given by SOE, as well as subscriptions to the game but perhaps not the time to play until the weekend. I would say the active player base is more around 200,000 to 300,000.

 I can promise you that if soe had millions of subscribers they would not be able to shut up about it.   The highest numbers soe has even releases were 550k for EQ, 300k for swg and 300k for EQ2 and that was many years ago.  All of those games have closed down all of their servers in the asian market since then and have had many server mergers. 

Just how many accounts do you think 1 mmo game server can support?  I'll give you a hint, it is not a 100,000 to 1 ratio.

World of warcraft has 241 servers for their estimated 2.5 million players in North America.

You really believe EQ2 handles millions of players with just 25 servers?  Or that everquest has up to 1 million with 25 servers?  Or that vanguard handles 3-400k with just 4 servers?

So yes I am telling you that I don't think 300-400k people have access to Vanguard.  I'll go even further to say I don't think that many people have access to all of those games combined.  

If this game had 300k+ players it would be getting paid expansions.  It would have more than 6 developers or whatever number it is now.  It would be the second or third largest mmo in the entire western market.

 your prob right hell wow put a cap on how many player can go in wintergasp at one time i beleive it 200 player 

that being said microsoft is working on a solution wich will help  mmo a lot so if your cap was 200 when w7 patch come next year it might be 2000 player instead of 200 in wintergrasp

i saw in a video they showed online an expemple and i can say right now they way microsoft goes for mmo is the futur

its not ready yet but they got a lot of it done

it probably wont work on older game or unpopular but something like wow would benefit greatly from microsoft tech.when its ready

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Typwn

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Typwn 

3. The games population is probably around 300,000 to 400,000. Xeth and Seradon clock up to High Population on the weekends, and it's growing larger everyday. Yes Sartok is dead, and Halgar isn't very popular, but Xeth and Seradon are healthy and well, and there is tons of raiding going on. I know my guild is extremely active with 250+ active people just by itself, so I'm not sure which server you play on but I never have a problem finding a group or raid.

 

 

Do you seriously believe 300k-400k people subscribe to vanguard? 

 

You realize that would make it soes most popular mmo by a long shot right?  Nothing else needs to be said beyond that and I think it paints a very accurate picture of how you see things.

What are you referring to? EverQuest 2 has a HUGE subscribed player base of about 1-2million, EQ has about 500,000 to 1 Million as well. You're telling me you don't think 300,000 to 400,000 have access to playing Vanguard? I'm not saying they play every day of the week consistantly, I'm saying they have access to play through All Access Pass and free time given by SOE, as well as subscriptions to the game but perhaps not the time to play until the weekend. I would say the active player base is more around 200,000 to 300,000.

 I can promise you that if soe had millions of subscribers they would not be able to shut up about it.   The highest numbers soe has even releases were 550k for EQ, 300k for swg and 300k for EQ2 and that was many years ago.  All of those games have closed down all of their servers in the asian market since then and have had many server mergers. 

 

Just how many accounts do you think 1 mmo game server can support?  I'll give you a hint, it is not a 100,000 to 1 ratio.

 

World of warcraft has 241 servers for their estimated 2.5 million players in North America.

You really believe EQ2 handles millions of players with just 25 servers?  Or that everquest has up to 1 million with 25 servers?  Or that vanguard handles 3-400k with just 4 servers?

 

So yes I am telling you that I don't think 300-400k people have access to Vanguard.  I'll go even further to say I don't think that many people have access to all of those games combined.  

 

If this game had 300k+ players it would be getting paid expansions.  It would have more than 6 developers or whatever number it is now.  It would be the second or third largest mmo in the entire western market.

The parts I italiscied are just not true.

I can vouch for the fact that EQ2 has at least 300k-500k CURRENT subscribers spread over it's servers, not a single EQ2 server dips below Medium population during "prime-time" hours (from about 3pm-10pm EDT.

Also, EQ2 currently has servers in the Asian market. I know they at least have an active server or two in Japan, I can't speak for the rest of Asia as those regions are handled by another publisher.

EQ2 also has not had "many" server mergers....they had one round of mergers and that was it. After that, all of the servers have very healthly populations. I'm not talking WoW type numbers here, but healthly none-the-less.

EQ2 is currently SoE's "flagship" game, it has the highest number of subscribers, largest development team, and it the best supported out of it's 4 "major" MMOs.

I know the thread is about Vanguard, but I just wanted to refute the suggestion that EQ2 isn't doing well, or is struggling. It's not.

I actually feel kind of bad for Vanguard. From what I have heard it's a pretty good game, VERY much like EQ2, which isn't surprising considering that Brad McQuiad did the original design for both games, but still a good game. It is seemingly following EQ2's wierd pattern of not doing so well at release b/c of design flaws and such, but getting better and better with each patch and slowly, but surely becoming a much better game then it was at release. I've been chearing for Vanguard from the sidelines and still hold out hope that it will survive, and eventually prosper b/c from what I understand, it is becoming quite a good game.

Correct. EQ2 only had 1 wave of server mergers and it was during the Desert of Flame expansion period. I was originally from Innothule which then became Crushbone. Since then the game's server population has been very good. Put it like this, the game warrant's its expansions and dev team size. On the topic of VG's population, if it had the numbers that Typwn (misspelled) said then it would recieve the same but I do know its no where close, or even in the same ballpark. Because no way in hell would I run 4 servers (1 being dead) and have those numbers. I'm starting to think he added one extra zero.

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

EQ2 does not have 1 - 2 million subs. EQ does not have 500k - 1 million. VG does not have 300,000 - 400,000. Now I don't know the HARD numbers as no one does. But here's my toss at it:

EQ1: 100-200k
EQ2: 400-600k
VG: 20-40k

You do not even remotely think anyone would run a game with 2 content developers that has 300k-400k subscriber's base? Now I have to ask, when was the last time YOU played?

I'm playing right now, but perhaps I don't estimate populations very well. Maybe my numbers are more suited to the amount of players that have played overall, who knows. However, there are certainly tons of people everywhere I go, and 60 guild members on at the moment. I'll talk with a few of my GM friends at SOE and see what they have to say on population. Regardless, Vanguard has a lot to it, and I would recommend anyone check it out for free with the Isle of Dawn at www.vanguardsoh.com.

Originally posted by Typwn

Originally posted by Xeonsoldier

EQ2 does not have 1 - 2 million subs. EQ does not have 500k - 1 million. VG does not have 300,000 - 400,000. Now I don't know the HARD numbers as no one does. But here's my toss at it:

EQ1: 100-200k
EQ2: 400-600k
VG: 20-40k

You do not even remotely think anyone would run a game with 2 content developers that has 300k-400k subscriber's base? Now I have to ask, when was the last time YOU played?

 

I'm playing right now, but perhaps I don't estimate populations very well. Maybe my numbers are more suited to the amount of players that have played overall, who knows. However, there are certainly tons of people everywhere I go, and 60 guild members on at the moment. I'll talk with a few of my GM friends at SOE and see what they have to say on population. Regardless, Vanguard has a lot to it, and I would recommend anyone check it out for free with the Isle of Dawn at www.vanguardsoh.com.

Don't use the number of your guild as an indication. I was in Trinity on Seradon and yeah I never had problems ever finding a group or raid but that doesn't blind me overlooking my community. Look at the community and see what it used to be and what it is now. Look at all the guilds that have died/left/merged into other guilds just to keep their rosters up. Looking outside the numbers, the community has taken one too many hits and sometimes its best they kept the numbers a secret.

And GM friends, they wouldn't know any better than silius would.

Tried it, very EQ (1) in style and looks. Classes are interesting and progression seems about right. Buying skills though is kinda like Elder Scrolls. Still has a lot of bugs like mobs attacking from inside walls, holes in lakes, pathing issues, and thats just on the Isle of Dawn. Still it is interesting, worth a try for the trrial, but it does look and feel a tad dated.

They would need to actually invest in the game. They need a larger team. They would need to do a re-launch with a retail expansion like FunCom is with Age of Conan. They need to change gear to fit the new character models, and add alot more customization, they need to actively update their game every couple of months like everyone else. There are alot of things they would need to do before they would see any sort of major success. I do think the game has potential to rock the genre, but they just don't have the means of doing it since SOE doesn't support the game like they do their other games. If they would put half the work they put into EQ2 expansions, on Vanguard, they would see it grow pretty rapidly. It's a game the community wanted to see succeed, and still does want to see succeed.

Originally posted by Valentina

They would need to actually invest in the game. They need a larger team. They would need to do a re-launch with a retail expansion like FunCom is with Age of Conan. They need to change gear to fit the new character models, and add alot more customization, they need to actively update their game every couple of months like everyone else. There are alot of things they would need to do before they would see any sort of major success. I do think the game has potential to rock the genre, but they just don't have the means of doing it since SOE doesn't support the game like they do their other games. If they would put half the work they put into EQ2 expansions, on Vanguard, they would see it grow pretty rapidly. It's a game the community wanted to see succeed, and still does want to see succeed.

That's just it, and I would support it 100%. But realism slaps us in the mouth hard. SOE won't and continue to neglect the game of what it should be recieving. SOE has the ability to do it, but when you're playing with fire, you will get burned.