Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Forum » General Discussion » Official "We're Angry about SOE" Thread

Ok  first things 1st i signed up to the site after reading this long and entertaining thread just so i could add my comments on a game that i actually bought retail and as painful as it was levelled a rogue in the infinium (eu) server to L18 before tossing the game in the dustbin a long time before my free gratis 30 days subscription were up.

This Game sucks big time end of story , broken quests , chunking of major proportions , bugs , lagg ,you name it this game has got it.

I for one was really dissapointed i really wanted to like this game but as a seasoned rpg  player of more than 25 years i just wanted to cry. Yesterday saw the first updated content patch to be released it screwed the game big time and made it far worse than it was already , the whole emphasis on group play is not a bad thing but and here's the but ..  IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SOLO with any degree of success my rogue was left unable to solo mobs while doing menial quests on mobs 2-3 levels below because of 1.a poor user interface . 2.i'm probably a crap rogue well i was after i got nerfed in yesterdays update.The whole die and lose 3 days worth of xp trying to get back to your tombstone because you get ported to an area rezz point that is far above your level really sucks and was a deciding factor in me placing this game in file 13.

I feel sorry for sigil and i hope they don't go under because of sony's involvement my prediction is the game will be dead inside of a year if they don't address the fundamental issues regarding major game mechanics and do it sharpish insteaad of adding content that won't be seen by many people once the game dies a slow painful death.

Ravendas L18 ( Deleted) infinium (EU)

What a shame , SOEs  step child is a failure. I was tempted to switch from WoW to Vanguard but I was have Soe much fun playing the BC that I rolled my primary avatar to a new account Soe my kids could play my original. Muahahahaha , SOE loves that Jestor .

Rodo at Dragon - Con 07 - you going?

what the hell are you on about??

i have played wow for 2 years since launch then eq2 for 2 months but i have never played a more exciting gane or indead one with so much potential {wow is so predictable} sigil have great things in store for this game LONG LIVE VANGUARD!!

3) The sudden success of World of Warcraft dramatically changes the common held idea of what an MMO was supposed to be.

4) Microsoft, as any buisness, wants to offer a product that will compete in the market. After the market changed drastically with the release of World of Warcraft, it became less attractive to produce a game that didn't conform to the new market's standard.

5) All of these added factors changed Microsoft's approach to Vanguard, and Brad being the stubborn idealist that he is, would not comprimise.

Am I missing anything?

----------------------------

You are missing a lot.

Wow did not in any revolutionize the design of an MMO. They made a full blown copy of EQ, which was already a success, knowing that people would come from EQ because of this.

You are right in, that the market has changed, or rather expanded. China has been opened up and Wow has had a great success based on the other stuff that Blizzard has done (the warcraft series). Blizzard has been lucky with many of the things they have put out, but they did not invent anything new. They are just good businessmen, something this genre lacks.

I also believe Vanguard is a far better made game than Wow. But it isnt new or inventive or revolutionary. It is just better graphics and more classes.

I don't post much on forums one because I sux at gram so I don't want the gramer police after me :P Anyho.

1st off I have played Vanguard as well as SWG from the Beta stage. And yes there will never be another game like SWG for some time. I find my self thinking why are those of you whom have played vangruad think there is not going to be problems? Come on from the 1st days of  WoW/SWG/EVE ect there are gliches, IT IS GAME SOFTWARE WRITIN BY PEOPLE lol. Wining about such a thing to me is a waste of time. I know that there was going to be problems. But the biggest problem is not the game but those computers you play them on. I have seen SOOOO I got this and I got that and the game sux running on it well look here. P4 3.4 HT 2g ram Nvidia 7600 512mg thats is about the run of the mill computer most poeple are playing on and thats mine. I get 25 to 30 FPS outside town and around 12 to 15 FPS in town. So thing to look at when talking bad about a game because it is not running like you want it to..... Is it the game or your stuff and or your conection? Do you have things set up for game or and off the shelf computer thinking because it is the newest stuff on the land it will run the game great. Again I will say I play vanguard and enjoy it alot I think the game is well made and will only get better as time goes on. It is not a solo game for you gold miners but a group game so YES you have to have a friend to work with and share :P. In close let me say this. If you are haveing problems with a game fix it or help fix it don't just sit back and wining like a sissy get involed in your game and help other enjoy it as much as other because in the end we are just here to have FUN !!

Originally posted by xpowderx
Its SOEs way to make money!! The game is flawed so SOE camn offer the fixes as a expansion for only 39.99US$ They have done this to many of there games. EQ is the worst right now. A expansion every 3 months for the past 3 years ..

that bullshit

EQ2 great game

Originally posted by Beery
SWG is probably never going to be the game that it was, but after the recent publishes I'd say it works better than it ever has.  That's not saying it is better in terms of what you can do - it's a different game.  But the new developers have made the game feel like a well designed game rather than the mismatched bunch of game features that it was.  I'd rather be playing SWG now than any other game.  There's still no other game that compares to it.

Originally posted by xpowderx
Its SOEs way to make money!! The game is flawed so SOE camn offer the fixes as a expansion for only 39.99US$ They have done this to many of there games. EQ is the worst right now. A expansion every 3 months for the past 3 years ..

This just proves how totally clueless you are.

EQ has been out 8 years. There have been 13 expansions.

Going by your post of "every 3 months" they should be on expansion #25 next.

But I don't know why I bother posting - most of the rabid SOE haters are so irrational that no amount of facts will penetrate anyway.

Originally posted by Mitara

3) The sudden success of World of Warcraft dramatically changes the common held idea of what an MMO was supposed to be.

4) Microsoft, as any buisness, wants to offer a product that will compete in the market. After the market changed drastically with the release of World of Warcraft, it became less attractive to produce a game that didn't conform to the new market's standard.

5) All of these added factors changed Microsoft's approach to Vanguard, and Brad being the stubborn idealist that he is, would not comprimise.

Am I missing anything?

----------------------------

You are missing a lot.

Wow did not in any revolutionize the design of an MMO. They made a full blown copy of EQ, which was already a success, knowing that people would come from EQ because of this.

You are right in, that the market has changed, or rather expanded. China has been opened up and Wow has had a great success based on the other stuff that Blizzard has done (the warcraft series). Blizzard has been lucky with many of the things they have put out, but they did not invent anything new. They are just good businessmen, something this genre lacks.

 

I also believe Vanguard is a far better made game than Wow. But it isnt new or inventive or revolutionary. It is just better graphics and more classes.

Originally posted by cumbom
THIS IS WHY PEOPLE HATE SOE

Sorry to jump on the bandwagon, but I too am quite disapointed with SOE ever since they made such huge changes to SWG and EQ2. I played both games in beta til after launch and felt they were actually more fun in beta. SOE is great at watering down games in an attempt to appeal to the more casual crowds. They end up making games with little to no replayability value which leads to shorter subscription periods.

The latest news about SOE taking over is going to hurt Brad more than anything since most people who know his past won't support him and his ideas after two sellouts. Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice...well you know the deal.

Originally posted by Amathe

Let's look at a timeline instead of just quoting Brad.

Time 1: Sigil pitches the game to Microsoft and they like the Vision (tm). They like it so much they are willing to invest many millions of dollars and fund its development over the course of many years.

Time 2: Brad and Co. work on the game for years, all the while touting the freedom MS affords them to make the game the way Sigil wants, and the harmonious relationship they enjoy.

Time 3: Game goes into closed Beta.

Time 4: Suddenly, out of the blue, Sigil needs a new financial backer and a new publisher because of alleged differences with MS about how the game should be made, and an alleged need for more control.

Think about this. What really changed? It's obvious. The beta. MS saw something in the beta that caused them to realize that this was going to be a turd. Why else would they walk away from a return on their investment as the game is approaching launch in the next six months or so? MS saw the feedback and said "fix this crap" and Brad said no and had to buy them out instead.

So the question each of you has to answer is, do you think MS are fools? Do you think they are unable to see the problems? Do you think they just hate money and walked away from something that was clearly going to be a huge success? Do you think they would have had those reservations if, as Brad likes to imply, the beta testers like the game and are raving about how great it is? You know better.

No MS aren't fools, if they were they would be bankrupt by now. :P  I was a beta tester, enuff said.   There was alot of consternation when SOE stepped into the picture after MS .."dropped the ball" or however you want to phrase that.   At the time, some were glad that "ebil" MS was gone..others were practically hysterical that SOE had stepped up to the plate and were going to "take over". 

I see those predictions coming true with the latest "Brad" statements...unfortunately I was one of the blind and refused to believe that SOE would be anything more than co-publisher and server/technical side of things.

Ah well....live and learn.   I guess Developpers do talk out of their left ears...and tell the gaming populace what they want to hear...and not the facts.

Suffice it to say with this latest development, I am extremely disappointed.   Vanguard is cancelled on my machine.....and will remain so if SOE takes ownership.

Very sad turn of events.

Cendharia

Originally posted by n2sooners

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Originally posted by Amathe

Let's look at a timeline instead of just quoting Brad.

Time 1: Sigil pitches the game to Microsoft and they like the Vision (tm). They like it so much they are willing to invest many millions of dollars and fund its development over the course of many years.

Time 2: Brad and Co. work on the game for years, all the while touting the freedom MS affords them to make the game the way Sigil wants, and the harmonious relationship they enjoy.

Time 3: Game goes into closed Beta.

Time 4: Suddenly, out of the blue, Sigil needs a new financial backer and a new publisher because of alleged differences with MS about how the game should be made, and an alleged need for more control.

Think about this. What really changed? It's obvious. The beta. MS saw something in the beta that caused them to realize that this was going to be a turd. Why else would they walk away from a return on their investment as the game is approaching launch in the next six months or so? MS saw the feedback and said "fix this crap" and Brad said no and had to buy them out instead.

So the question each of you has to answer is, do you think MS are fools? Do you think they are unable to see the problems? Do you think they just hate money and walked away from something that was clearly going to be a huge success? Do you think they would have had those reservations if, as Brad likes to imply, the beta testers like the game and are raving about how great it is? You know better.

---

First off, you made a mistake in number 4. They didn't need a new financial backer. They bought all the rights from MS without any help from SOE. But they did need someone with lots of experience to publish the game for them. Since Brad had friends at SOE, that was the natural choice.

Second, let's take a look at MS's experience with MMOs. Now, there may be more, but I only know of three MS MMOs. The first was AC. It was a decent game, but always overshadowed by EQ and UO. People always say EQ did so well because it was the only game on the market, but that wasn't true. UO and AC still existed, but UO wasn't 3d, and AC is often either dismissed or forgotten. Second was AC2. It is on the extremely short list of MMOs that have actually had to be shut down. Third was Mythica, but MS got cold feet on that one and killed it (possibly because of Vanguard). So it isn't like MS has some spectatular track record when it comes to MMOs. My guess is they wanted the game out faster, and possibly that they wanted it on the X-Box some time in the near future. I don't think they tried to directly alter the game, but by saying they wanted it out sooner rather than letting the beta run it's full course, that means content would have to be cut to make the deadline and the game would be released in a condition that many other games are being released now days, in a payed beta state.

Look in your gaming files for Vanguard.....there is a gaming console file.   Put there by whom?  Well it was there in beta.......so I assume thats what MS was wanting.   The other thing that made it a fail for alot of folks is the high end requirements to even play the game.   I can play it on a relatively new machine (year old as of this month) but there are still many fixes needed..including memory leaks, hitching...zone lines, character animations etc etc.

Other rumour was that ....MS wanted Vanguard out by last July 1st or September 2006.   (two rumours about that one)   I think we all realize that Vanguard was in no shape to be released that early on...as evidenced by the recent launch and people still complaining that VG needs another 6 months to a year development.

No I wouldn't say MS has any kind of "good" record with gaming...basically I don't consider them a gaming company, they make OS that you don't dare buy for at least two years after release, due to compatibility issues with every other application out there.  hehehe

I have no idea what happened behind the scenes, and I am sure the death of their art director also didn't help things either.   Just a whole run of really bad luck, and possibly some bad decisions being made.

Now as it stands...it looks as if SOE will assimulate Vanguard...from what I saw, and that makes me sad.   I had alot of hope that ..that wouldn't happen.

Cendharia

Originally posted by Agricola1

Fact: Whatever $OE touches turns into poo poo. CHECK

Fact: John Smedley is a cancerous pollip upon the anus of humanity. CHECK

Fact: $OE are obssesed with turning one of their games into "WoW part 2". CHECK

Fact: $OE are offering an online service for the PS3 for the exact same price as the station pass. Although they refuse to answer which games will be available on this service. I THINK PEOPLE STOPPED BUYING THESE DIDN'T THEY?

Fact: Every MMO purchased by $OE to date with the exception of EQ (owned by Smedley himself), has gone down the pan. CHECK

Fact: $OE has perhaps the worst customer support in the MMO industry. CHECK

Fact: $OE is the most hated MMO company in the industry (as you can see by these stickies). WON THE MMOWTF AWARDS 7 MONTHS LATER SO CHECK

Fact: John Smedley is perfectly happy with producing a sub-standard product with unfinished expansion packs and having the subscriber pay through subscriptions to "complete" it. CAN ANYONE SAY VANGUARD?

Fact: $OE employees (including Smedley) spend more time playing WoW than their own titles (if they play their own titles at all!). I THINK HE CHANGED HIS TACK TO "WE ALL PLAY COUNTER STRIKE" NOW

Fact: If you play this game with $OE as the publisher, you will be lied to and treated like scum until you get so browned off you cancel. GIMME A "V" GIMME A "A" GIMME A "N" GIMME ..... NEVER MIND, CHECK

Fact: $medley sees you as cattle, and will begin sheering you from day one. OK YOU SHEER SHEEP BUT SMED WOULD TRY TO SHEER ANYTHING HE COULD, THINK HE EVEN GOT HOLD OF BRITNEY SPEARS DIDN'T HE?

Fact: If the game doesn't attract WoW numbers within 6 months Devs will be cut back and Vanguard will be running on a skeleton crew. STILL GOT A FEW MONTHS TO GO ON THIS ONE

Fact: $OE now controls the purse strings, therefore they control the game no matter what is said. CHECK

Fact: $medley is evil incarnate. MY OPINION BUT UNTIL PROVEN WRONG CHECK

 Just checking out my own post one year later.

Originally posted by Shayde
Can I get an "I TOLD YA SO?"

For those of you that think that SOE is the one that screwed up VG, you might want to read this...

http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=561#more