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EVE Online News - EVE As A Social Game - New Eden
Posted by Jon Wood on Oct 12, 2009 | 97 comments in our forums
MMORPG.com's Jon Wood writes this look at how CCP is expanding their game and its marketing to highlight the social aspects of their sandbox, including the introduction of a new social tool known as New Eden.
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EVE Online has an image as a hardcore, dog eat dog, sandbox, PvP MMORPG. While that is certainly a part of what EVE Online is, it's not everything and at this year's EVE Fan Fest, CCP seemed determined to show the world that social activity and friends are actually at the heart of the game.
The developers really started trying to show the new face of EVE back at the end of July when they publicly launched a new game trailer titled, "The Butterfly Effect." Instead of highlighting the hardcore nature of the game (though the video certainly makes reference to it), the video talks about the choices that players will make within the game and how that all plays in to the friends that can and will be made by players as the fly through EVE's universe.
CCP never stops, they keep adding more and more to the game.
It's almost as if they're ones with the 13 million subscribers.
I agree, CCP keeps improving EVE like it was just released last year, and they certainly show no signs of "retiring" the game any time soon.
I like to joke that WOW will never die, and someday my grandkids will be telling me all about their level 245 Orc Paladin, but I'm thinking perhaps EVE will have even greater longevity and might just outlive me.
I like the new social networking aspect, the video was a nice touch and actually true in a lot of respects, I've experienced the butterfly effect and some of my most innocent choices led to great adventures in EVE.
It just amazes me what CCP can do and is capable of doing to make a game more interesting after all these years.
This is why i call CCP a game design making leader, because of things like this that just make you want to see it happen.
The innovation that CCP has shown makes me wonder what will EVE bee in another 10 years.
Its amazing how CCP can be light years ahead of the competition in almost every way they choose to be. How come Blizzard that is so much bigger and makes so much more money dont come up with stuff like this?
Innovation at its finest.
and THE only game with one server for their whole gaming community
wich im happy to say is a big plus for any mmo
i wish all game had only 1 big server a la eve
but unless im wrong ,this is the only game that have the technology to
be hable to cram all their player on 1 server
CCP does nothing short of an outstanding job! In every expansion theres something for everyone. Cant wait for Dust 514 to come out!
mm yep your right ,blizzard should cram all their 12 million player on one server when cataclysm lunch !
lol ya right unless microsoft release their new techno about the modded ut they ve been working on i doubt this will ever happen even then ,not sure even with ms new toy soon to be released (6 month)it will be enough to cram all player on 1 server
oh game like aion or gw will be able but top title like wow wont
but then its not a big issue since even if it would work wow still would need 3 kind of server
rp
pvp
veteran
so 12 million player / by say 3 make 4 million /server maybe microsoft new techno will help
but i doubt it
the way ms spoke their new toy is mainly aimed at the max cap of say a place like wintergrap
so they could raise cap from 200 to say 2000 and still play smoothly
but srever cap is more on the server side ,like what techno they use ,and in that regard it would be probably intel
or even better ibm that could help- them
yes some doubt ibm but let me tell you ibm is still the top dog
you ask for it very often they can accomplish what even intel cant accomplish
they are still at the forfront of techno ingeniousness,1 exemple 45 nm processor for ps3
yep ibm ,amd miniaturisation yep ibm again ,they might have stopped doing it themselves
but the guys that had idea at ibm still work for them
Actually, It may very well turn out into a very in-debth and informative "Spacebook". Not to say that would be a bad thing, quite the contrary, especially in EvE's vast universe that really would serve it's purpose of bringing the community even closer.
I enjoy Eve as much as the next player but some of the enthusiasm here is a bit much. CCP is a good company and they certainly do try and listen to their customers and they are trying to evolve the game to keep it interesting but there are a lot of things in Eve that could use some major work things that have been pretty much the same since the game launched.
The single server/shard thing is a bit of a joke though. Yes it is a single universe and the game has 300k players but what is the record for the most users being online at anyone time? 51K or so and many of these are people with 2 or 3 accounts. Right now I just checked and there are about 30k users online which is certainly respectable but considering the size of the Eve universe these people are spread out all over the place and are basically on different servers even if the servers are interconnected and to prevent over crowding the servers can and regularly do control the flow of users and put traffic restrictions in place.
I am NOT saying that this is a bad thing as there needs to be a balance between having a single universe and having a playable game. The simple fact of the matter though is that if the number of people playing Eve was to double CCP would have some major problems handling the load.
But, I'm just as happy not to have millions of other people playing the game with me as I'm sad to say too many gamers simply want instant gratification from their entertainment and have no interest in enjoying the long term development of their character and the universe around them.
My one big issue with EvE right now is the lack of being able to walk around in stations and being social. The rest of the game rocks, but to me, having an avatar that is a person is important and that sorta kills it for me. I think if CCP finally does add the ability to walk around in stations, go to clubs, meet with others in a social area on stations to make deals, play mini-games like gambling for instance and what not EvE will finally be the game it should have been when it was released.
I know some will flame me for thinking this way, but I think that is the one thing that keeps EvE from taking off. Without the human avatar there it keeps a lot of potential players from joining thegame.
Think about what people could do other than just see their ship flying from point a to point be or watching your ship mine.
Wouldn't it be fun to be able to board wrecks in EVA suits to explore them. What about exploring ruins on the surface of a planet and adding some PvE aspects of game play? The potential is there if CCP had some designers there with the vision to see just how wonderful a game this really could be.
I think your ideas all have merit Teala, but I think there are financial and technical design issues which prevent CCP from pursing a course of development as you've suggested.
Hence they're going to give us ground combat a la Dust514, rather than try to incorporate it into the original game. Also, ambulation may one day come out, but I doubt outside of it being some light hearted fun that it will evolve into something like planetary exploration and ship boarding.
SWG tried to be everything to everyone, and SOE never was able to really come to grasp with it and get all elements of the game working correctly, it was just too much to coordinate.
It was recently stated by one of the devs (at Fanfest 2009?) that the servers can already handle twice the existing concurrency. At the time of this writing the current players ingame is 41k and there are 1100 people in Jita alone. Regarding multiple accounts, many do have them but it seems you are assuming that most people have multiple accounts logged in at the same time. That's not necessarily the case. Only one character can gain skill points at a time on an account, thus it is more efficient to have additional characters on other accounts than to have them on the same one.
It was recently stated by one of the devs (at Fanfest 2009?) that the servers can already handle twice the existing concurrency. At the time of this writing the current players ingame is 41k and there are 1100 people in Jita alone. Regarding multiple accounts, many do have them but it seems you are assuming that most people have multiple accounts logged in at the same time. That's not necessarily the case. Only one character can gain skill points at a time on an account, thus it is more efficient to have additional characters on other accounts than to have them on the same one.
I can't speak for most people, but I always have at least 2/3 accounts logged in at all times.
That way I don't have to be social, I can just talk to myself.
Actually Kyleran you're wrong. They are going to do exactly what he asked for. Suppose to be out already in fact. The devs have told us for several years they were going to do exactly that. And in a recent interview they stated it WOULD be done very soon. Supposedly this year around late November or early December. But like most good things it may not show up till early 2010. I'm keeping my eyes open for it and hope the devs keep their word
BTW Just wanted to add I've played EVE since beta but quit for awhile then came back. I'm currently not playing. Great game but I'm just burnt out. Now I'm waiting for on station to come. And to be honest if it doesn't then I'll probably never play again. I don't think I'm alone on that one either. Well thats my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.
Not so. Eve wasn't the first to do "all one world", and even Eve's world is broken up into regions. Eve's economy is region based, not universe based, and every zone is a single instance seperate from the others outside of jumpgates and the like, with only chat channels and (inside regions) the economy being visible.
WW2 Online is a single "world", with no zones, that all the players reside in.
Every game has the technology to do what Eve does. Heck EQ1 was doing it way back when. Its just that most games can't get away with a simple routine to generate an entire zone. Since Eve's "zones" are practically empty except for stations, gates, and belts, it doesn't take much to generate a few thousand more. Eve suffers the same problems other games do when too many players enter one "zone" (Jita, anyone?). There's nothing technologically special about Eve. And in fact, its downtime every day says they didn't code it right in the first place. What other game gets away with having an hour of downtime every day?
Imagine that you are flying through space, and you see a helpless mining barge under attack from pirates. You quickly look at the barge's info and find that you share a friend in common. While this guy doesn't mean anything to you, obviously he's got some kind of attachment to a guy who helped you out of a jam once, so you decide to help him out...
This humored me. The real EVE version would go like this:
Imagine that you are AFKing through space, and you see a helpless mining barge under attack from pirates. You quickly warp out and then look at the barge's info and find that you share a friend in common. While this guy doesn't mean anything to you, obviously he's got some kind of attachment to a guy who helped you out of a jam once, so you sigh and wish the barge hadn't exploded in 5.7 seconds and could have been able to do something about it if you'd had your 17 friends with you all outfitted for PvP, while you sigh in relief that you weren't ganked as well.
Its funny on this site, bloody whiners and blizzard haters just say wow is nothing more than an online social tool for frinds, then somehow CCP implements a fuucking facebook style carebear system and its called innovation???? Get a bloody grip please.
Pretty much.
A whole lot of EVE teet sucking going on around here.
who would run from a fight in 0.0 or lowsec? How could you see the barge in a belt if you're afking through space? Why would you go through a belt or lowsec/0.0 on autopilot? You wish you had a clue of what you were talking about.
Not so. Eve wasn't the first to do "all one world", and even Eve's world is broken up into regions. Eve's economy is region based, not universe based, and every zone is a single instance seperate from the others outside of jumpgates and the like, with only chat channels and (inside regions) the economy being visible.
WW2 Online is a single "world", with no zones, that all the players reside in.
Every game has the technology to do what Eve does. Heck EQ1 was doing it way back when. Its just that most games can't get away with a simple routine to generate an entire zone. Since Eve's "zones" are practically empty except for stations, gates, and belts, it doesn't take much to generate a few thousand more. Eve suffers the same problems other games do when too many players enter one "zone" (Jita, anyone?). There's nothing technologically special about Eve. And in fact, its downtime every day says they didn't code it right in the first place. What other game gets away with having an hour of downtime every day?
As has been said before it is not instanced, it's zoned as not one system or region is a copy of one another. Besides i never saw more than two hundred people in a major town in EQ where as in the major hubs in EVE can handle at least eleven hundred without major lag happening.
Also tell me you have seen battles with more than say 150+ people in one part of a zone that can handle lag very well, so far i have yet to played a MMO that can handle that many, even WoW has major lag when they reach 100+ people in wintergrasp.
Its funny on this site, bloody whiners and blizzard haters just say wow is nothing more than an online social tool for frinds, then somehow CCP implements a fuucking facebook style carebear system and its called innovation???? Get a bloody grip please.
Have you even read what COSMOS will attempt to be doing? I believe not cause if you did it would be hard to grasp all that this will even accomplish as a start for.
Well the social code in this game needed a drastic upgrade, it was badly behind the rest of the genre.
Bad choice of words using the word instance. Eve's zones are not instances, big difference.
Well here is some good news. The CCP Devs stated at fan fest that Incarna (Ambulation) will be coming out after Dominion and New Eden. They also stated that planetary interaction is on its way but no mention with Avatars. I have to think that Eve will have avatars on the surface of planets eventually in the future that will interact like walking on stations. In fact I feel it is the natural progression to the games growth. And I would hope that the exploration of planets, farming, space walking, mining, etc, will make it into the game within the 100% influence of the community and the design sensibility of CCP that would interact with Eve properly for Avatars. But how much is that going to cost in added servers if needed? Maybe the coming planetary management system can have the Avatar interact with might work? We have 50,000 planets in Eve. I don’t think that there would be 50,000 world maps for a ground game. Although I would love that like I love Mass Effects planetary maps. I agree that Eve needs this. If they really want to hit the new goal of 600k subscriptions and world domination then by all means bring on the Avatars. Don’t forget they stated they have a 50 year plan. Only time will tell.
I do look forward to being a Dust Merc.
Uhh, a lot of other games? It's not something unique that EVE goes down for an hour every day, many other games do that too.
If I remember right, it's because EVE makes more database calls in one day than WoW does in one week. It comes down to keeping the database running at optimum levels.
The Social aspect of EVE has always been it's biggest asset. When you take away the typical theme park hand holding all that is really left is player interaction in the sandbox. This has always been what EVE is about.
I think it's a really good sign that CCP is saying things like:
A) EVE is a social game.
B) We don't want new players running missions.
C) We want a new player to have to die in the tutorial.
The EVE sandbox is alive and well and evolving on a single server. Good news indeed!
Not so. Eve wasn't the first to do "all one world", and even Eve's world is broken up into regions. Eve's economy is region based, not universe based, and every zone is a single instance seperate from the others outside of jumpgates and the like, with only chat channels and (inside regions) the economy being visible.
WW2 Online is a single "world", with no zones, that all the players reside in.
Every game has the technology to do what Eve does. Heck EQ1 was doing it way back when. Its just that most games can't get away with a simple routine to generate an entire zone. Since Eve's "zones" are practically empty except for stations, gates, and belts, it doesn't take much to generate a few thousand more. Eve suffers the same problems other games do when too many players enter one "zone" (Jita, anyone?). There's nothing technologically special about Eve. And in fact, its downtime every day says they didn't code it right in the first place. What other game gets away with having an hour of downtime every day?
You are probably right in saying that EVE was not the 1st single shard, but you probably don't know yourselves which mmo that did this 1st, otherwise, please enlighten us.
It certainly is not the only one, but there is only 1 other popular one ( Second Life ). And I sure hope more mmo's will take this route.
WW2 Online is so small it could fit into 1 EVE zone ( system ).
Not every game has the technology that EVE has, not by a long shot, all the databases have to be connected and perform well, that is the main challenge. It is not about the graphics, graphics are client side, it is about market operations, inventory manipulations, etc, those are what stressing the databases. Also, and I have to tell this again EVE does not have instances ( in mmo terms, we are talking about mmo's here ), please educate yourself. It does have zones like most other mmo's have zones as well ( WoW : Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, Northrend, ... ) and they are still considered 1 world and 1 shard and they run on more than 1 server ( 3 - 4 ? ).
No they wouldn't. Most systems are nowhere near load capacity, even at primetime. The only problem they might have is Jita. And at worse it would only be as bad as it used to be.
If anything, more subscriptions mean more revenue, more revenue means better hardware. CCP has never been shy about upgrading their hardware, even when it wasn't necessary.
If I remember right, it's because EVE makes more database calls in one day than WoW does in one week. It comes down to keeping the database running at optimum levels.
And the company I work for does far more than Eve all the time, and we're expected to be up 24/7/365 (Credit card processing). The DB's these days let you "optimize" on the fly. They have for a long time. Yes, they are expensive, but...
As has been said before it is not instanced, it's zoned as not one system or region is a copy of one another. Besides i never saw more than two hundred people in a major town in EQ where as in the major hubs in EVE can handle at least eleven hundred without major lag happening.
Also tell me you have seen battles with more than say 150+ people in one part of a zone that can handle lag very well, so far i have yet to played a MMO that can handle that many, even WoW has major lag when they reach 100+ people in wintergrasp.
Now we're into semantics. Each "zone" is an instance of that zone. Sure, there's only one named "Jita", but its still an instance.
I battle in WW2 Online almost every night with battles that big (or bigger). No lag. And it isn't a "spreadsheet" type of battle either. Actually aiming, firing, etc.
Eve can handle 1100 in a zone because 1000 of them are idle or just chatting in a station.
The reason community is such a big part of the game is because it's a hardcore, PvP based game that requires you to join a corp or die pretty much when starting out. The game is intense, and like other games like it, you group for survival. There's a huge teamwork aspect to the game. Will this bring anything less than hardcore players in? No. It's just too tough, too complex and has too high of a learning curve for any sort of casual gamer to get a grasp on.
Another example of this would be Project Visitor/10six. To survive, you HAVE to join an MDN. In an MDN, everyone relies on the other members to defend their camp while they're not on the game. Huge social aspect. Does this make it accessible? No. Not in the least. PV is about as hardcore and unforgiving as they come, being completely PvP based and all.
As has been said before it is not instanced, it's zoned as not one system or region is a copy of one another. Besides i never saw more than two hundred people in a major town in EQ where as in the major hubs in EVE can handle at least eleven hundred without major lag happening.
Also tell me you have seen battles with more than say 150+ people in one part of a zone that can handle lag very well, so far i have yet to played a MMO that can handle that many, even WoW has major lag when they reach 100+ people in wintergrasp.
Now we're into semantics. Each "zone" is an instance of that zone. Sure, there's only one named "Jita", but its still an instance.
I battle in WW2 Online almost every night with battles that big (or bigger). No lag. And it isn't a "spreadsheet" type of battle either. Actually aiming, firing, etc.
Eve can handle 1100 in a zone because 1000 of them are idle or just chatting in a station.
If you could only enter a system through a gate maybe, but that's not the case and has been pointed out you really don't understand what your talking about.
"Each "zone" is an instance of that zone" this is like saying each server in wow is an instance of that zone, and yes I lol'd.
Considering there are defined definitions of "zone" and "instance" in MMO lingo, not really. A zone is different than an instance, the same as an apple is different than an orange.
Eve can reallocate processing power to allow for large scale wars in a single zone. It happens every day. And it manages to do so without having graphics that look like they came from 1995, which is more than I can say for WW2 Online.
Completely uncalled for. This isn't a war of graphics, or even games. It's a discussion on EvE as a social platform. I'm enjoying reading some of the useful responses. Can't say yours was. =P
Completely uncalled for. This isn't a war of graphics, or even games. It's a discussion on EvE as a social platform. I'm enjoying reading some of the useful responses. Can't say yours was. =P
I wasn't responding to your post, so I don't really give a rats ass
I wasn't responding to your post, so I don't really give a rats ass
Love that this is what the gaming community is turning into. *rolls eyes*
See, games that have tight knit communities (such as WWII Online, which you trashed) are much better plays than your precious, top-of-the-line-graphics MMORPGs because the community makes it a pleasant experience and they help each other get the best out of the game, something that in may PvP based MMOs, you can't do solo.
I wasn't responding to your post, so I don't really give a rats ass
Love that this is what the gaming community is turning into. *rolls eyes*
See, games that have tight knit communities (such as WWII Online, which you trashed) are much better plays than your precious, top-of-the-line-graphics MMORPGs because the community makes it a pleasant experience and they help each other get the best out of the game, something that in may PvP based MMOs, you can't do solo.
Just so you know that there are many helpful people in EVE as there are in any MMO out there. Saying one MMO is better than another differs from person to person. Also there are many who solo play in EVE in corporations and not in one too. One's game play is subjective to how a player chooses to interact with others or not.
Love that this is what the gaming community is turning into. *rolls eyes*
See, games that have tight knit communities (such as WWII Online, which you trashed) are much better plays than your precious, top-of-the-line-graphics MMORPGs because the community makes it a pleasant experience and they help each other get the best out of the game, something that in may PvP based MMOs, you can't do solo.
Just so you know that there are many helpful people in EVE as there are in any MMO out there. Saying one MMO is better than another differs from person to person. Also there are many who solo play in EVE in corporations and not in one too. One's game play is subjective to how a player chooses to interact with others or not.
I wasn't trashing EvE lol. I thoroughly enjoyed the trial and the community. Just the combat wasn't for me. I was just trashing him really. I think EvE's been the one exemption to the whole bad-community-in-popular-current-gen-MMO thing. Well, in my experience.
Also, solo thing, once again, I said "many" to pad it. What I've noticed though is as far as solo play goes in EvE, if you're not in a corp and you just started (beyond the tutorial), you're left pretty vulnerable and must really want a hardcore experience.
I wasn't responding to your post, so I don't really give a rats ass
Love that this is what the gaming community is turning into. *rolls eyes*
See, games that have tight knit communities (such as WWII Online, which you trashed) are much better plays than your precious, top-of-the-line-graphics MMORPGs because the community makes it a pleasant experience and they help each other get the best out of the game, something that in may PvP based MMOs, you can't do solo.
The Eve community is awesome, and people are more than friendly to people who are not mildly retarded and make baseless accusations or assumptions about the game-world. The previous person was downing on Eve's ability to handle large scale battles while comparing it to WWII Online. I corrected him and continued the comparison.
I don't have anything against WWII Online, or its players. But the game's graphics are painfully dated, and you can get defensive about that... but it doesn't change the fact. If you want to get pissy with someone changing the subject from the social aspect, then get pissy with your fellow WWII Online player... don't throw your condescending reply my way.
The mere fact your throwing out your "elitism" speech comparing the game communities makes me believe your just another uneducated fool. Anyone who has played Eve knows how deep the community is, and how important it is to work together as a cohesive unit to get "the best out of the game".
Never trashed the EvE community. I should have elaborated on that.
Never even played WWII Online. I've been bouncing MMOs for a while. I've noticed in my experience that the older MMOs with more settled communities tend to be friendlier. That's what I was getting at.
Not being elitist, because I'm not even subbed to an MMO currently, so it's hard to be elitist when you have nothing to be elitist about.
Read the last post though.
I just was saying that the people judging games based on graphics are full of crap and that's elitism in it's own.
i actually agree with the things you are looking for in the game, i love the whole spacecraft stuff but i want more like the stuff you described, if all this stuff happens i would probably drop every other game i play and focus mostly on this one.
for now i play off and on so i don't get bored.
i actually agree with the things you are looking for in the game, i love the whole spacecraft stuff but i want more like the stuff you described, if all this stuff happens i would probably drop every other game i play and focus mostly on this one.
for now i play off and on so i don't get bored.
Heh, I'm currently holding out for Infinity Online, though it looks like it's closer to a 2011 release than anything. Hoping for at least great planet landing, based on it's seamless transitions from space to planet. ;)
So basically you just went off on your own tangent, preaching about non-sense that was entirely unrelated to anything after reading a single line of one of my posts and latching onto it without reading into the full context.
Got it.
I just was saying that the people judging games based on graphics are full of crap and that's elitism in it's own.
at this time in history, graphics play a much larger role. I judge both gameplay and graphics equally, if one doesnt have the other i probably wont enjoy it. Times have changed, this "graphics doesnt matter" crap is getting old.
at this time in history, graphics play a much larger role. I judge both gameplay and graphics equally, if one doesnt have the other i probably wont enjoy it. Times have changed, this "graphics doesnt matter" crap is getting old.
It's not crap. Considering good 2D games with solid gameplay still sell like wildfire (Scribblenauts anyone?), it's really not crap that graphics don't matter. Not to mention games like Bob's Game (which features 16-bit graphics, even on the PC version) are getting a large following, it really isn't an understatement. People will play games if they're good, regardless of the graphics.
Not to mention, any Shin Megami Tensei game and any of the last of the Square Enix games on PS2 sold well, as well. They don't have top notch graphics do they?
Wii doesn't have top notch graphics does it?
My point.
EDIT: Hell, WoW proves graphics don't matter. Look at it's numbers. Hate to use that example, as I'm not for WoW in any way. Just a more relevant example. ;)
at this time in history, graphics play a much larger role. I judge both gameplay and graphics equally, if one doesnt have the other i probably wont enjoy it. Times have changed, this "graphics doesnt matter" crap is getting old.
It's not crap. Considering good 2D games with solid gameplay still sell like wildfire (Scribblenauts anyone?), it's really not crap that graphics don't matter. Not to mention games like Bob's Game (which features 16-bit graphics, even on the PC version) are getting a large following, it really isn't an understatement. People will play games if they're good, regardless of the graphics.
Not to mention, any Shin Megami Tensei game and any of the last of the Square Enix games on PS2 sold well, as well. They don't have top notch graphics do they?
Wii doesn't have top notch graphics does it?
My point.
EDIT: Hell, WoW proves graphics don't matter. Look at it's numbers. Hate to use that example, as I'm not for WoW in any way. Just a more relevant example. ;)
your mistaking my definition of good graphics with realistic-seeing-every-blood-spec type of graphics. The wii doesnt have bad graphics, they are acceptable, WoW doesnt have bad graphics, you're assuming i think they do. Lol i also find it funny you mention 3 low graphic games that a internet surfer like myself has never even heard of .... yeah those games must be very popular and doing well. Quit assuming things.
EDIT: i could say the same thing and say many good graphics games are selling tens of millions of copies (together). Much more then the games you listed. Times and hardware is changing.
It's on the way (minus the EVA suit thing). It's called Incarna. The "smart" money seems to be late 2010.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ysIGFGQTSM&feature=related
Not so. Eve wasn't the first to do "all one world", and even Eve's world is broken up into regions. Eve's economy is region based, not universe based, and every zone is a single instance seperate from the others outside of jumpgates and the like, with only chat channels and (inside regions) the economy being visible.
WW2 Online is a single "world", with no zones, that all the players reside in.
Every game has the technology to do what Eve does. Heck EQ1 was doing it way back when. Its just that most games can't get away with a simple routine to generate an entire zone. Since Eve's "zones" are practically empty except for stations, gates, and belts, it doesn't take much to generate a few thousand more. Eve suffers the same problems other games do when too many players enter one "zone" (Jita, anyone?). There's nothing technologically special about Eve. And in fact, its downtime every day says they didn't code it right in the first place. What other game gets away with having an hour of downtime every day?
Think you are confusing mechanics.
Yes EvE's world is broken into regions and systems... but this is just a naming convention. I.E. Texas and Oklahoma have two names, and are broken into states, but its one country... get my meaning? Its not like 500 instances of Deadmines or Naxx on wow.
Local chat is available per system, but there are also many channels setup that are eve wide, and you can also create your own channel. Corp channel is region wide...etc etc. This is done simply for functionality. I dont really care whats going on 50 jumps from me, so why should I be in the same channel as those that arent near me? Add onto it the sheer volume of chat would make the channel unusable. Not to mention rampant spam from tards... Just look at Aion and how its plagued.
As for server tech... no everyone cant do what eve does. Blizzard, Darkfall, EQ, Uo, and many others have proven that time and again. Queues anyone? Blizzard created that one an Aion ran with it as well. If you were to dump tranquility onto a Aion or WoW server it would pop like a Zit.
How many other games do you know of that have battles of over 1000 players on a monthly basis? I know a few that claim it (darkfall) but dont actually produce.
Empty space... sure there is a lot of it in eve, but there is a lot of it in every game. EvE has a bit more than most I will concede that. However, EvE's empty space is utilized in combat with safe spots etc. Even if you were to remove ALL of the empty space but warpable objects in eve, you would still have a bigger MMO than any other on the market.
You mentioned the economy.... are you really nocking eve on the economy? Really? That is one of the many things EvE has over 90% of the other MMO's. 90% of all items in eve are produced by players. Due to loss of items on death, crafters actually have a purpose in eve, where in most games (wow, lotro, war, AoC, etc etc) there is no point after the initial launch as once an item is sold it never disapears.
Finally lets get down to downtime. WoW goes down once a week for several hours... Eve goes down once a day at a time when few players are on. Which do you prefer?
Im in CST timezone, and I think I have been affected by DT once. Going down once a day is no big deal. Other MMO's have so many problems that eve doesnt have... that I believe 1 hour is worth it.
How about free expansions twice a year? When's the last time WoW made a free expansion? hmm... Whens the last time wow came out with 2 expansions in one year? Think we can all agree CCP has the competitions ass owned on that department.
"Eve's economy is region based, not universe based, and every zone is a single instance seperate from the others outside of jumpgates and the like, with only chat channels and (inside regions) the economy being visible."
If only it were possible to compare prices across these regional markets with alt characters. Then someone could buy something that is cheaper in one market and ship it to another market and sell it at that market's higher price. Of course the game would have to have ships with large cargo capacity....Nah that could never happen, no one playing EVE is smart enough to figure out arbitrage.
Just so you people who think you're clever with the snide comments know: I have 2 active Eve accounts, and do compare region prices with alts...
But I'm "gaming the game" to do so, it isn't part of the game itself.
Well...Actually I did not read the article..I know that EVE can be a social game same as any other Sandbox game. Ultima Online was really social as well Plus well, I played EVE for quite some time since its beta...
However..I can't but wait for the day that CCP revamps the combat system, it is what bores me to deth in this game.
When the Combat become more Tactical and less Strategic then we will have a game that is complete in my book...
I love the complexity of eve, love the concept, maybe less the pure real time skill training, subeed here and then a few months...but it just aint my cup of tea no matter how much im trying to like it.....why couldnt it be under a different scifi setting...or at least why doesnt a company try making a game like this but not with ships....and run the game as CCP does....
LOL
You aren't "gaming the game." There is a reason you can have alts on the same account even though you can't train more than one toon at a time. Everyone and their mother does the same thing, including the CCP employees. It's expected and encouraged.
There are even fan sites and tools listed on CCPs forum that do the exact same thing so you don't have to. Some of them will even go so far as to do the math for you and let you know what product by meter make you the most isk per jump.
Get real.
yeah, and from what i can tell from your previous posts about EVE .... you hate pvp and perfer to be 100% solo.... which is VERY odd considering you said you play WW2 which is centered around pvp and having other people have your back.
CCP forever :P
That's all I have to say.
yeah, and from what i can tell from your previous posts about EVE .... you hate pvp and perfer to be 100% solo.... which is VERY odd considering you said you play WW2 which is centered around pvp and having other people have your back.
Not odd. WW2 Online is based around PvP. Eve is not. Most people in Eve do not PvP. Eve PvP is also "gank" or "blob" mentality 99% of the time. In WW2 Online, while such tactics are used by some, they do not work as well as eve because even the lowliest rifleman can kill the top infantryman in the game with a single bullet, something that can't happen in Eve. And yes, I do have "teammates" in WW2 Online, even if they aren't in the same squad as me (I'm a day 1 person in WW2 Online that hasn't been in a squad since it opened). Eve you don't have that either. It's all "NBSI" crap.
Good PvP = fun.
Crap blob/gank PvP = junk.
Well i havent skimmmed this entire thread yet, and i may be wrong , but though its a new game just freshly released Fallen Earth only has one single server. Granted no where near the the playerbase of the existing EVE online, ive been there to and im still impressed to see that CCP is pumping out new updates/features. *props to CCP*
Dude your a god damn troll.
Everything in Eve revolves around pvp, even carebears know that shit.
Go back to the WW2O forums with the other 50 people that play the game.
Not odd. WW2 Online is based around PvP. Eve is not. Most people in Eve do not PvP. Eve PvP is also "gank" or "blob" mentality 99% of the time. In WW2 Online, while such tactics are used by some, they do not work as well as eve because even the lowliest rifleman can kill the top infantryman in the game with a single bullet, something that can't happen in Eve. And yes, I do have "teammates" in WW2 Online, even if they aren't in the same squad as me (I'm a day 1 person in WW2 Online that hasn't been in a squad since it opened). Eve you don't have that either. It's all "NBSI" crap.
Good PvP = fun.
Crap blob/gank PvP = junk.
Ah, but the real difference between the two games is that in EVE, death has real meaning and consequences, and in WWII online, its all rather pointless, doesn't matter if you win or lose.
EVE's got the better PVP I think.
Can't wait for New Eden to come out in "Q!". Didn't even know that existed.
Nah, being ganked 6 on 1 has no meaning. Sure the lost time sucks, but all that can do is force you from the game, which is a bad design. There is no "meaning" to sovreignty as it is except ego stroking. There is no "we won" in Eve, unless you're on the Chinese server where that has happened (and caused massive problems).
In Eve, it doesn't matter if you win or lose. Just buy up some more isk and presto, brand new ship and implants and away you go like nothing happened.
Not odd. WW2 Online is based around PvP. Eve is not. Most people in Eve do not PvP. Eve PvP is also "gank" or "blob" mentality 99% of the time.
lol the scary part is that you actually believe the bullshit your typing. Everyone in EVE pvps... if its either the market or living in more dangerous parts of eve. You're either a troll or you are just a complete idiot who thinks he knows everything .... which you dont. And if you dont like the game then leave it and quit bitching. Who has the gun to your head forcing you to play eve?
When all is said and done, potentially losing hours of gaming time over one PvP death is simply too much for 99% of gamers out there.
Until the devs change that fact, no talk about sandbox, features or whatever is going to make this game anything more than a niche game.
I predict that once Star Trek Online is released, people will be leaving this game in droves.
i doubt it ... the people who stayed with eve enjoy and understand risk vs reward. They enjoy the fact you lose isk when you lose a ship ... i've read forum threads on the eve forums about people getting upset because CCP is going to increase insurance payouts on T2 ships.... the people who want an arcade spaceship game have already left.... earlier in the thread someone mentioned 3 million people have tried and only 300k accounts are active.
Funny thing is most of us dont give a shit about Eve becoming anything other than a niche game.
As for STO lets leave the crystal ball talk out of this and wait for STO's release.
Not odd. WW2 Online is based around PvP. Eve is not. Most people in Eve do not PvP. Eve PvP is also "gank" or "blob" mentality 99% of the time.
lol the scary part is that you actually believe the bullshit your typing. Everyone in EVE pvps... if its either the market or living in more dangerous parts of eve. You're either a troll or you are just a complete idiot who thinks he knows everything .... which you dont. And if you dont like the game then leave it and quit bitching. Who has the gun to your head forcing you to play eve?
I believe that would be me Mr. Valentine. I am the troll with the GUN!!! HAHAHA
Ok, I'll break it down to a much simpler form so you can understand.
Eve is not built around PvP COMBAT, WW2 Online is. Most people in Eve do NOT partake in Eve's rather pathetic PvP COMBAT. Eve's own numbers show this.
Ok, I'll break it down to a much simpler form so you can understand.
Eve is not built around PvP COMBAT, WW2 Online is. Most people in Eve do NOT partake in Eve's rather pathetic PvP COMBAT. Eve's own numbers show this.
I second this. From what I saw of Eve PvP it is either about ganking or warping away. People are so afraid to die, and understandibly so, so the moment they see something resembling a fair fight they try to get away.
Eves PvP combat is constipated, at best, and completely non existant as worst.
I second this. From what I saw of Eve PvP it is either about ganking or warping away. People are so afraid to die, and understandibly so, so the moment they see something resembling a fair fight they try to get away.
Eves PvP combat is constipated, at best, and completely non existant as worst.
Sigh, so much BS, so little time. Been a part of faction wars? Red vs Blue? Fought to the death to save your stations in 0.0? Been part of the empire Merc wars?
I have, and despite definitely being a carebear by nature, I have most certainly spent some time PVPing as it were.
But it is true, in EVE PVP, winning is the most important thing, its what gives the game meaning for those who play it. You fail to understand the mechanic but no reason to keep spewing your crap here.
At any given moment you can set your map overview to show pods killed in the last 24 hours and you will find dozens of systems with sometimes hundreds of pod kills.
Yeah right, no one is pvping.......
Eve is most certainly a social game, and what we do has real meaning in almost every aspect. '
The butterfly effect is more real in EVE than any other MMO out there.
Considering up until Aion it was #2 on the NA block... I kind of have to disagree with its "Niche" label. It has surpassed both WAR and AoC.
As for the harsh pvp penalties... thats what makes eve, eve. You either like it or you dont. With out it there is no rush and pvp is meaningless.
Removing those penalties would kill the economy, kill crafting, kill minning, trading, pvp...etc etc.
STO is for all intents and purposes not even the same genre. There are space ships...its in space... other than that every aspect of STO has nothing in it that would draw eve players.
I second this. From what I saw of Eve PvP it is either about ganking or warping away. People are so afraid to die, and understandibly so, so the moment they see something resembling a fair fight they try to get away.
Eves PvP combat is constipated, at best, and completely non existant as worst.
Then you obviously havent spent much time in the game. Yes there are people who gank, there are people who run... but you get that in ANY MMO. Look at Aion, currently the abyss is either ganking solos with a group, or chasing victims as they run away. 9 hours a week its about fortresses... where you might get a fight.
In eve... there are solo fights, group fights, zerg fights, ganks, and pretty much any other type of combat you can possibly think of.
I think you are confusing smart combat with no pvp. If you have 10 ships and Im out with a buddy, Im going to be showing you my tail before you can lock, however, if its a remotely fair fight then me and my boys are game. Do we win all the time? Nope. Do we win enough to make things fun? Hells yeah.
However, saying a game isnt about pvp when the entire point of the game is player conflict simply blows my mind.
For those that don't think that EVE Online's 300,000 players and 50,000 simeltanious users isn't a big deal maybe you should take a look at some of the hardware minded devblogs. I know at fanfest a representative from IBM CCP's hardware partner called CCP's system one of the most advanced in the world.
To manage the character database alone it requires a brick server consisting of 2x 16-blade servers stacked on top of one another with each processor being a 6 core 2.66 GHz Intel Dunnington, 128GB DDR2 RAM, along with multiple RAM SAN arrays aka "the world's fastest storage" for the hard disk.
FunFact: RAM-SANs are capable of +600,000 IOPS (Input Outputs Per Seconds). To get the same number of IOPS you would need over 3000 traditional platter based hard drives.
No, if just any MMO can do what EVE does like you are implying then I doubt Texas Memory Systems would be plugging CCP and EVE along side monsters like San Diego Supercomputer, New Corp, and Qualcomm. Likewise Microsoft trophies CCP as an example of their super enterprise HPC solutions and VIVOX as one of their first adopters.
Really if any other MMOs use such advanced technology and bend over backward to make sure that they can support 50,000 simeltanious without lag then I haven't heard of it and I don't see them being trophied as success stories by technology leaders such as IBM, Texas Memory Systems, Microsoft, etc.
No... 50,000 users in one universe is NOT something any MMO can do. Sure EVE runs on 60x seperate blade servers which are each monsters in their own right (Jita has a dedicated blade and it can support over 1300 players in a single system, for major fleet battles CCP dedicates a blade so 1000+ players can fight seamlessly) but while a zone's load may be spread across multiple servers and new ones bought and added in a database server's load can't. CCP has stated continuously in their dev blogs nothing short of a RAM SAN could ever have done what EVE does 'cause you can't just add more servers when all 300,000+ players are on the same single database.
I second this. From what I saw of Eve PvP it is either about ganking or warping away. People are so afraid to die, and understandibly so, so the moment they see something resembling a fair fight they try to get away.
Eves PvP combat is constipated, at best, and completely non existant as worst.
Sigh, so much BS, so little time. Been a part of faction wars? Red vs Blue? Fought to the death to save your stations in 0.0? Been part of the empire Merc wars?
I have, and despite definitely being a carebear by nature, I have most certainly spent some time PVPing as it were.
But it is true, in EVE PVP, winning is the most important thing, its what gives the game meaning for those who play it. You fail to understand the mechanic but no reason to keep spewing your crap here.
At any given moment you can set your map overview to show pods killed in the last 24 hours and you will find dozens of systems with sometimes hundreds of pod kills.
Yeah right, no one is pvping.......
Eve is most certainly a social game, and what we do has real meaning in almost every aspect. '
The butterfly effect is more real in EVE than any other MMO out there.
^ this and what the above poster said.... Thanks for typin the posts up to help others understand.
I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Nah, being ganked 6 on 1 has no meaning. Sure the lost time sucks, but all that can do is force you from the game, which is a bad design. There is no "meaning" to sovreignty as it is except ego stroking. There is no "we won" in Eve, unless you're on the Chinese server where that has happened (and caused massive problems).
In Eve, it doesn't matter if you win or lose. Just buy up some more isk and presto, brand new ship and implants and away you go like nothing happened.
Way to focus on random ganking like its the only form of PvP combat. Obviously ganking only happens in Eve, and not every other single PvP enabled MMO on the market.
Don't mention the scenarios where two corps go to war over a handful of systems, a war which may last weeks or months... and after multiple large scale and small scale battles(anything from 1v1s to ganking, to small gang warfare to fleet battles), one corp "breaks" the other corps economic "back" and pushes them out of the systems.
How? Because of keeping pressure on their mining OPs and locking down supply routes while whittling away at their ship reserves via smart, strategic attacks. Damn, that almost sounds like real warfare. Maybe because it is.
Dunno, that sounds a little more deep than 6v1 ganking to me. I'd also consider that both a "win" and a "loss" for the respective side. I'm also pretty sure it matters to the players of both of those corps that they won or lost, considering one is homeless and the other just expanded its space and have access to the resources that reside there. This is even pre-Dominion. It's even more important post-Dominion where you drops tons of capital into upgrading your space.
Bottom line is you don't understand this game. Your vision of what is happening in-game is too narrow because you don't seem to see past the tip of your nose You see a handful of random bored people flying around ganking people and you think thats all PvP entails, or you see a local market and don't seem to realize that their are multiple people trading between regional market hubs. You don't know whats going on around you because you can't see past whats happening right in front of you. And because you never saw past whats right in front of you, you never involved yourself in the real game.
Fly cheaper ships. I can make enough money in a couple hours of mission running to supply myself with enough frigates/cruisers to last a week of PvP. With insurance the only thing you actually are spending money on is mods.
That is most of the new players problem. They try to PvP with that shiny new battleship that they spent the last week saving up money for, and naturally when they lose it they get discouraged. Instead they should be sticking to frigates, cruisers, destroyers, and interceptors, which are all incredibly cheap and easy to replace. Hell, most corps will supply you with T1 frigs and Cruisers for free, as long as your supporting Corp OPS.
There is a reason that the first piece of advice every new player gets in PvP is to fly what you can afford to lose. The cool thing about this game is that you are still incredibly useful to your fleet flying a frigate. The same can't be said of other games where not having the best "gear" basically makes you a liability.
I do Love Eves looks, makes you feel like your really out there, but the skill system is just to long for peeps like me who have played the game for years, 3.5 months for a skill is no fun grrr
I second this. From what I saw of Eve PvP it is either about ganking or warping away. People are so afraid to die, and understandibly so, so the moment they see something resembling a fair fight they try to get away.
Eves PvP combat is constipated, at best, and completely non existant as worst.
Sigh, so much BS, so little time. Been a part of faction wars? Red vs Blue? Fought to the death to save your stations in 0.0? Been part of the empire Merc wars?
I have, and despite definitely being a carebear by nature, I have most certainly spent some time PVPing as it were.
But it is true, in EVE PVP, winning is the most important thing, its what gives the game meaning for those who play it. You fail to understand the mechanic but no reason to keep spewing your crap here.
At any given moment you can set your map overview to show pods killed in the last 24 hours and you will find dozens of systems with sometimes hundreds of pod kills.
Yeah right, no one is pvping.......
Eve is most certainly a social game, and what we do has real meaning in almost every aspect. '
The butterfly effect is more real in EVE than any other MMO out there.
Ofcourse winning is the most important thing but that does not mean that the loser should lose HOURS of gaming time for one PvP death. That has nothing to do with mechanics or whatever, it is possibly to have more lenient death penalties and still maintain the crafting mechanics of the game. Things does not need to be black and white (either no penalty or extreme penalty) you know...
As for PvPing, as was mentioned, there is alot of ganking going on. Meaning gatecampers who kill people gating in/out and hence all the pod kills. If that for you is the definition of PvPing then all the power to you. For me it is not.
But sure, there are 0.0 wars as well but I would say that is not as common as people would want you to believe.
I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
It is amazing how people can comment, and even quote, what I was saying and yet fail to see what I said.
Read my last paragraph again regarding "winning doesnt mean anything".
As for why most people play Eve is all speculations. I deduce that since Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG then it would make sense that alot of people wanting to play that kind of game would play Eve, they dont have any other options. So with the release of STO that wont longer be the case and then it would be natural that alot of people would switch. Specially since hardcore death penalties is for a niche audience.
You think people play Eve mainly because of sandbox with consequences. I dont think so because in Eve you dont play a character, which is how most MMORPGs are, but rather you play a ship and that is something that I think most gamers, hardcore/leet/sandbox or not, would not like. But fine it is your opinion and lets leave it at that.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
It is amazing how people can comment, and even quote, what I was saying and yet fail to see what I said.
Read my last paragraph again regarding "winning doesnt mean anything".
As for why most people play Eve is all speculations. I deduce that since Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG then it would make sense that alot of people wanting to play that kind of game would play Eve, they dont have any other options. So with the release of STO that wont longer be the case and then it would be natural that alot of people would switch.
You think people play Eve mainly because of sandbox with consequences. I dont think so because in Eve you dont play a character, which is how most MMORPGs are, but rather you play a ship and that is something that I think most gamers, hardcore/leet/sandbox or not, would not like. But fine it is your opinion and lets leave it at that.
It isnt the only spaceship mmo just the only spaceship mmo sandbox and STO wont be a sandbox so it doesnt matter.
What other spaceship MMORPG is there out there?
Observe that there is a huge difference between sci-fi MMORTS or space strategy games and MMORPG where you control only one entity.
What other spaceship MMORPG is there out there?
Observe that there is a huge difference between sci-fi MMORTS or space strategy games and MMORPG where you control only one entity.
Jumpgate.... and its funny how you only mention STO without mention Jumpgate evolution and black prophecy. Like what was said earlier though, people play EVE because its spaceship sandbox mmo .... not just because its some spaceship mmo.
What other spaceship MMORPG is there out there?
Observe that there is a huge difference between sci-fi MMORTS or space strategy games and MMORPG where you control only one entity.
Darkspace, Jumpgate, Vendetta Online... Ill add more once I have time during my work break today.
As for MMOrts and Space strategy go wouldnt it be fair to add those games also? Eve has elements of everything.
If you followed Eve for a long time like most of us you would have known only recently has Eve been considered a mmorpg by CCP the header used to call Eve an MMOG until CCP felt it would be new player friendly and avoid confusion if they changed it.
Now I would luike to ask you since you seem to be up on the Sto info. Is Sto a sandbox? Does Sto have the level of depth and complexity of Eve industry side? Industry, trade and shit like that is the reason many players stay in High sec not just missions.
What about exploring?
Seriously the fact that you could even put these games in the same thread is kind of funny.
There is also Vendetta Online which has a small following. To the person claiming he wants some middle ground between risk versus reward i say meh. Have you ever stopped to think a lot of people arnt always looking for their time in an mmo to be filled with happiness and instant gratification.
When you die for example in Aion or WAR, one click and you have respawned. It's fair to say these game follow this middle ground in risk versus reward because they have some sort of capturable area that has an effect on the game world but on a personal level what do you actual feel whilst you PVP in a game like this?
The first couple of times you might get a slight adrenaline rush when you kill someone or conquer a castle, fortress or whatever. But because the games dont actually make you FEEL any loss how joyous is the actual victory? You may have spent hours sweating and Cursing to get the victory but what do you have to show for it.
In Eve because you die you loose a ship and sometimes a pod as well you get a feeling of actual loss, this makes you angry or mad. What some people fail to realise is actually being unhappy in an mmo for a short period of time is GOOD for you. The death you just faced is recorded in the killmail and you can see the exact names of the players involved in blowing you to bits. And you know what?
When you get your chance for revenge and you end up being the person destroying there shps the victory is so much better. This is what draws people to EVE, it's what keeps people playing and it's what will continue to attract people to the game.
I cannot explain to you the emotions I felt the first time my mission runner got caught in a gate camp in his new faction BS.
Seriously I expect my pvp character to die but losing a near 500+ million isk ship ruined my entire day. I still get pissed when I think about it.
I learned from it and believe me My pvp alt got some revenge. I never got the guy from the killmail but I got most of his corpies.
Most satisfying thing i've ever done in a mmo.
People don't play Eve because "its a space MMO". Sure, there are a lot of people that try Eve because its a space MMO, but if they don't dig the nature of the beast they don't stick around.
STO is a themepark, and as a Cryptic game you can pretty much safely assume it will be fairly shallow. Not that cryptic games aren't fun, but they just aren't particularly deep. The type of person who sticks around and plays Eve doesn't do so just because its the only space MMO on the market (which isn't actually the case anyway). They do it because of the open ended gameplay, player run economy, deep crafting system, empire building, etc; STO, Jumpgate, and Black Prophecy have none of that.
I've never met a single player who disliked Eve's gameplay but stuck around just because "its a space MMO". It's not the type of game you can play unless you really seriously enjoy the game-play, I don't care how much of a spaceship nerd your are. I have met plenty of people that tried Eve because its a space MMO, and lost interest because of the type of gameplay. And those are the people that games like Jumpgate and STO are likely to attrack... but those aren't Eve players.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
It is amazing how people can comment, and even quote, what I was saying and yet fail to see what I said.
Read my last paragraph again regarding "winning doesnt mean anything".
As for why most people play Eve is all speculations. I deduce that since Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG then it would make sense that alot of people wanting to play that kind of game would play Eve, they dont have any other options. So with the release of STO that wont longer be the case and then it would be natural that alot of people would switch. Specially since hardcore death penalties is for a niche audience.
You think people play Eve mainly because of sandbox with consequences. I dont think so because in Eve you dont play a character, which is how most MMORPGs are, but rather you play a ship and that is something that I think most gamers, hardcore/leet/sandbox or not, would not like. But fine it is your opinion and lets leave it at that.
Well I'm sorry but your just wrong on two points.
First, you haven't spent the last 4 post talking about some make believe game but one very specific game, and that game is set to be a full on themepark! I'm sorry you didn't like my point but it still stands.
As for why people come to the game, EVE's sandbox devoted fan trace themselves back to certain games like UO (and others) and they look for the next big sandbox (darkfall, fallen earth), they are always on the lookout for the next big sandbox and so far it hasn't been made. STO will have less of an effect than LOTR and Warhammer and they had no effect at all. EVE is the most advanced Sandbox on the market (IMHO) and until a better one is released it will continue to grow and evolve.
LOL at this guy " Originally posted by Yamota
When all is said and done, potentially losing hours of gaming time over one PvP death is simply too much for 99% of gamers out there.
Until the devs change that fact, no talk about sandbox, features or whatever is going to make this game anything more than a niche game.
I predict that once Star Trek Online is released, people will be leaving this game in droves."
That would be like going from a steak dinner to eating spam.
Ive been playing EVE for 4 years now and when I die it takes me all of 5 minutes to be back in the fight most times. I have pretty much always been broke in game as well.
As has been said before it is not instanced, it's zoned as not one system or region is a copy of one another. Besides i never saw more than two hundred people in a major town in EQ where as in the major hubs in EVE can handle at least eleven hundred without major lag happening.
Also tell me you have seen battles with more than say 150+ people in one part of a zone that can handle lag very well, so far i have yet to played a MMO that can handle that many, even WoW has major lag when they reach 100+ people in wintergrasp.
Now we're into semantics. Each "zone" is an instance of that zone. Sure, there's only one named "Jita", but its still an instance.
I battle in WW2 Online almost every night with battles that big (or bigger). No lag. And it isn't a "spreadsheet" type of battle either. Actually aiming, firing, etc.
Eve can handle 1100 in a zone because 1000 of them are idle or just chatting in a station.
No, not every zone is an instance of that zone ... the zones ( read : systems ) are all different, they all have a different moon, planet, station, jumpgate, ... layout. So while zones in EVE look alot more alike than in some other mmo's, they are still not instances. Each zone is persistent, there are no exact copies and people can go to every zone they like.
Why do we make such a big deal about it? Because we really don't want instances in EVE Online. We want to be able to meet everyone, shoot everyone, go anywhere we like. And we can, thats the point. You can't in for example WoW, because you can not enter someone's private instance.
But to make you happy, keep calling them instances, we will know you mean zones, okay?
The argument that EvE will be threatened when STO is released is the dumbest thing I ever heard. No scifi fan, I dont care how hardcore they are, will put up with EvE's "boring" combat because it is the only sci fi space game.
Most of the players play because of the harsh enviorment, complexity of the game, the economy, the pvp (both combat and non), and because of its sandbox.
I would see Darkfall more as a competitor then any other MMO.
While I was at the 2008 Fanfest, someone asked Hilmar Petursson, 'How far ahead does CCP think? Do you have a five year plan for EVE? A ten year plan?'
Hilmar was amused. 'Yes and yes. You might say we have a hundred year plan. As long as people keep playing, we'll keep working, EVE will keep evolving.'
Which pretty much sums up why I'm a shameless fanboy.
That and because I'm a science geek who gets a kick out of some of the obscure details in EVE's sci-fi—the redshifting and blueshifting you see in warp, for instance—great stuff. EVE does not intellectually insult the player. That is a rare virtue in this genre, I think.
Trying to bill Eve as a social game is like trying to say that WoW is a sophisticaed one. Once the new titles come out like the Old Republic, JGE, Star Trek Online etc... Eve will see an exodus perhaps not as large as some have mentioned but it will happen and for all the reasons previously mentioned. There have been dozens of threads on subjects similar to this one listing the issues that CCP has turned a blind eye to.
Every MMO is social.
Those new games that you listed have nothing on Eve. Seriously what other developer is willing to release a spaceship mmo with rts combat and harsh death penalty with players all playing in one game universe?
The people that love Eve wont leave for ToR, JGE or STO its the players that play Eve trial and quit that will enjoy JGE and STO.
Also what issues have CCP turned a blind eye to? seriously imo CCP is damn near perfect atm. I would love to hear of these so called "issues".
wanna bet on that? EVE wont go below 300k subscribers after 2010.