Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Banquetto

 

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Originally posted by Rydeson
That doesn't answer my question..  EVE currently sits at about 250-300k subs I think on one PvP server.. So if EVE was to start a new PvE server, how does that effect your PvP server of 300k people..... Other then thousands of people defecting to the new server.. Is that what you're truely worried about?  That thousands of PvE minded people that are EASY targets on the PvP server  will leave to a safer playground where ganking and bounties is not available?   Sure sounds like it to me..  So it's not really about saving EVE, as much as it's saving YOUR fun on easy prey?   Lets me honest here..

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EVE's economy requires a balance of producers and consumers. If PvE players all upped and left for a new server, it would destroy the economies of BOTH servers. How long do you think people would play a PvE EVE for when there was absolutely zero demand for any commodities mined or farmed there?

"Zero"?  With the sleeper AI being introduced and expanded upon in all of the missions?  It would be less certainly, but its not going to be anything like zero. 

I think you're overestimating how difficult the sleeper "AI" is. And for missions the only difference it makes is that you have to pay a little attention with your drones. Sleeper "AI" is not the same as sleeper DPS. Doing missions in a Tengu = absolutely no difference whatsoever.

Originally posted by Zinzan

Originally posted by Banquetto

 

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Originally posted by Rydeson
That doesn't answer my question..  EVE currently sits at about 250-300k subs I think on one PvP server.. So if EVE was to start a new PvE server, how does that effect your PvP server of 300k people..... Other then thousands of people defecting to the new server.. Is that what you're truely worried about?  That thousands of PvE minded people that are EASY targets on the PvP server  will leave to a safer playground where ganking and bounties is not available?   Sure sounds like it to me..  So it's not really about saving EVE, as much as it's saving YOUR fun on easy prey?   Lets me honest here..

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EVE's economy requires a balance of producers and consumers. If PvE players all upped and left for a new server, it would destroy the economies of BOTH servers. How long do you think people would play a PvE EVE for when there was absolutely zero demand for any commodities mined or farmed there?

EVE with no risk would not be worth playing.

I agree with CCP's message to the players, "HTFU".

I also believe the only way Eve can take a major turn for the worse is if CCP does something stupid like create a PvE server or make the game F2P.

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Banquetto

 

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Originally posted by Rydeson
That doesn't answer my question..  EVE currently sits at about 250-300k subs I think on one PvP server.. So if EVE was to start a new PvE server, how does that effect your PvP server of 300k people..... Other then thousands of people defecting to the new server.. Is that what you're truely worried about?  That thousands of PvE minded people that are EASY targets on the PvP server  will leave to a safer playground where ganking and bounties is not available?   Sure sounds like it to me..  So it's not really about saving EVE, as much as it's saving YOUR fun on easy prey?   Lets me honest here..

---

 

EVE's economy requires a balance of producers and consumers. If PvE players all upped and left for a new server, it would destroy the economies of BOTH servers. How long do you think people would play a PvE EVE for when there was absolutely zero demand for any commodities mined or farmed there?

"Zero"?  With the sleeper AI being introduced and expanded upon in all of the missions?  It would be less certainly, but its not going to be anything like zero. 

 

I think you're overestimating how difficult the sleeper "AI" is. And for missions the only difference it makes is that you have to pay a little attention with your drones. Sleeper "AI" is not the same as sleeper DPS. Doing missions in a Tengu = absolutely no difference whatsoever.

True for some, not so much for others.  I also noted that the Sleeper system as it exists, is just the start.  They have stated that it will be expanded and refined over time.  I doubt it will ever be as dangerous as a human player, but then it doesn't need to be. 

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Rydeson

Do tell me how a PvE server would destroy EVE.. This should be entertaining.. A PvE seperate of your normal server has NO effect on your gameplay whatsoever.. NONE, ZILTCH..  If you are worried that many players will LEAVE your server to play on a non PvP one that is a different issue all together..  But the mechancis of a PvE server would have NO effect.. In fact I bet it would increase the number of subs.. 

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EVE was designed to have a single server, that is how the game is supposed to work and how it works.

PVE server simply makes no sense.

     That doesn't answer my question..  EVE currently sits at about 250-300k subs I think on one PvP server.. So if EVE was to start a new PvE server, how does that effect your PvP server of 300k people..... Other then thousands of people defecting to the new server.. Is that what you're truely worried about?  That thousands of PvE minded people that are EASY targets on the PvP server  will leave to a safer playground where ganking and bounties is not available?   Sure sounds like it to me..  So it's not really about saving EVE, as much as it's saving YOUR fun on easy prey?   Lets me honest here..

Your entire premise is faulty - there is no such thing as easy prey in eve online.  Eve is far safer than a game like world of warcraft in terms of being ganked.

There are many factors to consider before you attack a player in eve's high security space and most of them are based on risk Vs. reward or potencial gain vs. expected loss; which oddly enough, are the exact same factors that all players consider before they leave a station and embark on any activity.

It's not necessary for a PvE server since there are controls in place to prevent a mass murdering serial killer that don't exist in typical PvE games.

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Rydeson

Do tell me how a PvE server would destroy EVE.. This should be entertaining.. A PvE seperate of your normal server has NO effect on your gameplay whatsoever.. NONE, ZILTCH..  If you are worried that many players will LEAVE your server to play on a non PvP one that is a different issue all together..  But the mechancis of a PvE server would have NO effect.. In fact I bet it would increase the number of subs.. 

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EVE was designed to have a single server, that is how the game is supposed to work and how it works.

PVE server simply makes no sense.

     That doesn't answer my question..  EVE currently sits at about 250-300k subs I think on one PvP server.. So if EVE was to start a new PvE server, how does that effect your PvP server of 300k people..... Other then thousands of people defecting to the new server.. Is that what you're truely worried about?  That thousands of PvE minded people that are EASY targets on the PvP server  will leave to a safer playground where ganking and bounties is not available?   Sure sounds like it to me..  So it's not really about saving EVE, as much as it's saving YOUR fun on easy prey?   Lets me honest here..

Your entire premise is faulty - there is no such thing as easy prey in eve online.  Eve is far safer than a game like world of warcraft in terms of being ganked.

There are many factors to consider before you attack a player in eve's high security space and most of them are based on risk Vs. reward or potencial gain vs. expected loss; which oddly enough, are the exact same factors that all players consider before they leave a station and embark on any activity.

It's not necessary for a PvE server since there are controls in place to prevent a mass murdering serial killer that don't exist in typical PvE games.

 

Odd... Then the Goonies must operate on a differenht "risk vs reward" system... ^^ Given their hulk smashing sprees in high sec, and other antics, its not nearly as safe as one of WoW's PvE servers... ^^ 

Wow this debate is still going on and I see the only ones vouching for F2P or PvE servers are those who have not played EVE or have no clue how the economy in it works.

Of course no one of us knows what would happen to EVE if it went F2P or introduced a PvE server. I would, however, wager some money that it would ultimately lose CCP more money than it would bring.

You may disagree, but at least my opinion is based on actually playing EVE.

As for mindless ganking claims, nothing mindless about it at all,in fact in high sec it requires a fair about of work, cargo scanning, following, setting up an ambush, etc etc etc.

Most people equate ganking purely on their mining experience in High Sec, but Heavens knows miners are told time and time again how to be a small target, and do they listen, do they (BLEEP)......

Even the ones complaining know the mindset of EVE and CCP, yet instead of blending in, becoming part of the system, they thrash around and squeal, which in the predators world, thats just a big old dinner bell, ask any shark..

With Star citizen in the works that will provide the PVE Eve experience people keep banging on about, its that game I reckon thats going to hit Eve,s numbers to what extent only time will tell.

Originally posted by kruler

With Star citizen in the works that will provide the PVE Eve experience people keep banging on about, its that game I reckon thats going to hit Eve,s numbers to what extent only time will tell.

Depends completly how they implement the MMO part. Roberts' vision is superb, but time will tell if he will be able to pull it off. I agree that if done properly, Star Citizen will put a serious dent on EVE's sub numbers. I would probably be one to "bail", as I've been asking for a more direct flight model for EVE for a long time.

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by kruler

With Star citizen in the works that will provide the PVE Eve experience people keep banging on about, its that game I reckon thats going to hit Eve,s numbers to what extent only time will tell.

Depends completly how they implement the MMO part. Roberts' vision is superb, but time will tell if he will be able to pull it off. I agree that if done properly, Star Citizen will put a serious dent on EVE's sub numbers. I would probably be one to "bail", as I've been asking for a more direct flight model for EVE for a long time.

Until now any "joystick" spceflight sim has failed to make even a dent in EvE. I dont think the two games will end up competing too much over the same market.

They are two different types of games, with mostly different types of players.

Originally posted by hfztt

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by kruler

With Star citizen in the works that will provide the PVE Eve experience people keep banging on about, its that game I reckon thats going to hit Eve,s numbers to what extent only time will tell.

Depends completly how they implement the MMO part. Roberts' vision is superb, but time will tell if he will be able to pull it off. I agree that if done properly, Star Citizen will put a serious dent on EVE's sub numbers. I would probably be one to "bail", as I've been asking for a more direct flight model for EVE for a long time.

Until now any "joystick" spceflight sim has failed to make even a dent in EvE. I dont think the two games will end up competing too much over the same market.

They are two different types of games, with mostly different types of players.

Name me one "joystick" spaceflight MMO with the economy like EVE?

Yeah...

EVE is not free to play... First of all you have to buy the account key to create your account which costs you $ (I payed 9$ when they were giving it out on sale).

Next thing is, you can't farm your PLEX immediatly...In the first month of play is impossible to farm it (or you can try but you won't get far in the first 30 days with crappy ship and level of your knowledge about the game being slightly above 0 :P

But yeah it's possible to get plex if you play alot and aim for that, alot of people I know do that, but they're all playing EVE for few years now and they've got ALOT of them :D

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Rydeson

Do tell me how a PvE server would destroy EVE.. This should be entertaining.. A PvE seperate of your normal server has NO effect on your gameplay whatsoever.. NONE, ZILTCH..  If you are worried that many players will LEAVE your server to play on a non PvP one that is a different issue all together..  But the mechancis of a PvE server would have NO effect.. In fact I bet it would increase the number of subs.. 

---

 

EVE was designed to have a single server, that is how the game is supposed to work and how it works.

PVE server simply makes no sense.

     That doesn't answer my question..  EVE currently sits at about 250-300k subs I think on one PvP server.. So if EVE was to start a new PvE server, how does that effect your PvP server of 300k people..... Other then thousands of people defecting to the new server.. Is that what you're truely worried about?  That thousands of PvE minded people that are EASY targets on the PvP server  will leave to a safer playground where ganking and bounties is not available?   Sure sounds like it to me..  So it's not really about saving EVE, as much as it's saving YOUR fun on easy prey?   Lets me honest here..

Your entire premise is faulty - there is no such thing as easy prey in eve online.  Eve is far safer than a game like world of warcraft in terms of being ganked.

There are many factors to consider before you attack a player in eve's high security space and most of them are based on risk Vs. reward or potencial gain vs. expected loss; which oddly enough, are the exact same factors that all players consider before they leave a station and embark on any activity.

It's not necessary for a PvE server since there are controls in place to prevent a mass murdering serial killer that don't exist in typical PvE games.

 

Odd... Then the Goonies must operate on a differenht "risk vs reward" system... ^^ Given their hulk smashing sprees in high sec, and other antics, its not nearly as safe as one of WoW's PvE servers... ^^ 

I've never met one and if I was in a hulk I'd be aligned and at the keyboard... which means that if i don't want to pew pew with that scarey goon of yours I don't have to but it would be interesting to have that happen because normally I didn't see anything but other boring old hulks, but then I wouldn't be in a hulk - I'd be in a CNR running missions and a pretty boring fitted one at that so I'd probably not be a target.  Odd isn't it?  I'd share space with the terrible goons of yours and they'd not attack me at all.

How about you go flag yourself and stand outside a popular hub in wow and see how many times you're ganked and see what you can do to avoid it except not flagging yourself?  Did you know that a flagging system is a part of wows PvE servers?

Much safer in eve online.

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by hfztt

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by kruler

With Star citizen in the works that will provide the PVE Eve experience people keep banging on about, its that game I reckon thats going to hit Eve,s numbers to what extent only time will tell.

Depends completly how they implement the MMO part. Roberts' vision is superb, but time will tell if he will be able to pull it off. I agree that if done properly, Star Citizen will put a serious dent on EVE's sub numbers. I would probably be one to "bail", as I've been asking for a more direct flight model for EVE for a long time.

Until now any "joystick" spceflight sim has failed to make even a dent in EvE. I dont think the two games will end up competing too much over the same market.

They are two different types of games, with mostly different types of players.

Name me one "joystick" spaceflight MMO with the economy like EVE?

Yeah...

 

Come on, neither will Star Citizen have... To me it reads like good old Elite style trade. Which is all good fun, but it AINT what EvE is doing. I mean, seriously, with them selling ship packs to playes, do you REALLY think they want players building those ships on thier own?

Originally posted by hfztt

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by hfztt

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by kruler

With Star citizen in the works that will provide the PVE Eve experience people keep banging on about, its that game I reckon thats going to hit Eve,s numbers to what extent only time will tell.

Depends completly how they implement the MMO part. Roberts' vision is superb, but time will tell if he will be able to pull it off. I agree that if done properly, Star Citizen will put a serious dent on EVE's sub numbers. I would probably be one to "bail", as I've been asking for a more direct flight model for EVE for a long time.

Until now any "joystick" spceflight sim has failed to make even a dent in EvE. I dont think the two games will end up competing too much over the same market.

They are two different types of games, with mostly different types of players.

Name me one "joystick" spaceflight MMO with the economy like EVE?

Yeah...

 

Come on, neither will Star Citizen have... To me it reads like good old Elite style trade. Which is all good fun, but it AINT what EvE is doing. I mean, seriously, with them selling ship packs to playes, do you REALLY think they want players building those ships on thier own?

All depends on cost of building those ships of course :) Besides, I haven't seen any info of whether players will be able to buy ships with real money after the launch. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough?

And yes, I know SC will not have EVE-like, 99.9% player driven economy. My point was, there has never been any "joystick" spaceflight MMO with EVE-like economy. In fact, there has never been a "joystick" spaceflight MMO (let's call it JSMMO for brevity?), period. Jumpgate tried it, but calling it an MMO would be stretching it quite a bit.

But as I said, if Roberts can pull even the currently visioned economy model and couple it with an explosive JSMMO experience, it WILL affect EVE player numbers. Hell, even a fantasy MMO with EVE's sandbox elements and superb mix of interconnected PvE and PvP would make a dent to EVE player numbers.

EVE is a great game, I play it myself. However it's very alone in it's economy model and seamless PvE and PvP mix of sandbox gameplay. Frankly, it _needs_ some competition to be forced to evolve. And I say evolve, not revolve.

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Rydeson

Do tell me how a PvE server would destroy EVE.. This should be entertaining.. A PvE seperate of your normal server has NO effect on your gameplay whatsoever.. NONE, ZILTCH..  If you are worried that many players will LEAVE your server to play on a non PvP one that is a different issue all together..  But the mechancis of a PvE server would have NO effect.. In fact I bet it would increase the number of subs.. 

---

 

EVE was designed to have a single server, that is how the game is supposed to work and how it works.

PVE server simply makes no sense.

     That doesn't answer my question..  EVE currently sits at about 250-300k subs I think on one PvP server.. So if EVE was to start a new PvE server, how does that effect your PvP server of 300k people..... Other then thousands of people defecting to the new server.. Is that what you're truely worried about?  That thousands of PvE minded people that are EASY targets on the PvP server  will leave to a safer playground where ganking and bounties is not available?   Sure sounds like it to me..  So it's not really about saving EVE, as much as it's saving YOUR fun on easy prey?   Lets me honest here..

Your entire premise is faulty - there is no such thing as easy prey in eve online.  Eve is far safer than a game like world of warcraft in terms of being ganked.

There are many factors to consider before you attack a player in eve's high security space and most of them are based on risk Vs. reward or potencial gain vs. expected loss; which oddly enough, are the exact same factors that all players consider before they leave a station and embark on any activity.

It's not necessary for a PvE server since there are controls in place to prevent a mass murdering serial killer that don't exist in typical PvE games.

 

Odd... Then the Goonies must operate on a differenht "risk vs reward" system... ^^ Given their hulk smashing sprees in high sec, and other antics, its not nearly as safe as one of WoW's PvE servers... ^^ 

I've never met one and if I was in a hulk I'd be aligned and at the keyboard... which means that if i don't want to pew pew with that scarey goon of yours I don't have to but it would be interesting to have that happen because normally I didn't see anything but other boring old hulks, but then I wouldn't be in a hulk - I'd be in a CNR running missions and a pretty boring fitted one at that so I'd probably not be a target.  Odd isn't it?  I'd share space with the terrible goons of yours and they'd not attack me at all.

How about you go flag yourself and stand outside a popular hub in wow and see how many times you're ganked and see what you can do to avoid it except not flagging yourself?  Did you know that a flagging system is a part of wows PvE servers?

Much safer in eve online.

that's one of the top 5 nonsences I've heard :D

EVE online is known for hostile enviroment... You can't trust anyone there. Even if you're mining in the high sectors (0.9 or more) you can't be safe there as well... There's always someone who's already scanning you and waits to see if you are alone there so he can nuke you fast and get out with the loot...

Whenever I went mining I always had 2 friends watching my back (usually in mid sectors). In low sectors there were even more than 3 sometimes, depending what we were mining and how many of us went... But the chances are wherever you are in the EVE universe, someone already scanned you and is heading your way to nuke your ass.

High security space can't stop a player who knows how to do a quick nuke and where to start from... While I was still playing EVE, I saw people reporting alot of high sec ganks and it's was not so odd to see somoene being killed in high-sec sector. You always have to be careful in eve...

Please, don't emberass yourself further by comparing EVE to WOW open world PVP. xD

Originally posted by Wraithone

Odd... Then the Goonies must operate on a differenht "risk vs reward" system... ^^ Given their hulk smashing sprees in high sec, and other antics, its not nearly as safe as one of WoW's PvE servers... ^^ 

You just demonstrated that you have little clue how EVE works. There are greater effects in the universe than just a single ship loss. Also some people just want to have fun and don't concern themselves with ingame risks.

Originally posted by korent1991

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by WraithoneI've never met one and if I was in a hulk I'd be aligned and at the keyboard... which means that if i don't want to pew pew with that scarey goon of yours I don't have to but it would be interesting to have that happen because normally I didn't see anything but other boring old hulks, but then I wouldn't be in a hulk - I'd be in a CNR running missions and a pretty boring fitted one at that so I'd probably not be a target.  Odd isn't it?  I'd share space with the terrible goons of yours and they'd not attack me at all.

How about you go flag yourself and stand outside a popular hub in wow and see how many times you're ganked and see what you can do to avoid it except not flagging yourself?  Did you know that a flagging system is a part of wows PvE servers?

Much safer in eve online.

that's one of the top 5 nonsences I've heard :D

EVE online is known for hostile enviroment... You can't trust anyone there. Even if you're mining in the high sectors (0.9 or more) you can't be safe there as well... There's always someone who's already scanning you and waits to see if you are alone there so he can nuke you fast and get out with the loot...

Whenever I went mining I always had 2 friends watching my back (usually in mid sectors). In low sectors there were even more than 3 sometimes, depending what we were mining and how many of us went... But the chances are wherever you are in the EVE universe, someone already scanned you and is heading your way to nuke your ass.

High security space can't stop a player who knows how to do a quick nuke and where to start from... While I was still playing EVE, I saw people reporting alot of high sec ganks and it's was not so odd to see somoene being killed in high-sec sector. You always have to be careful in eve...

Please, don't emberass yourself further by comparing EVE to WOW open world PVP. xD

Hmm ... that's odd. I was never ganked in highsec in my past 5+ years in EVE. Actualy the PvP lossmails for my characters fit into single digits.

Yes EVE is hostile, but with a bit of common sense and research it becomes very safe.

Originally posted by tom_gore

And yes, I know SC will not have EVE-like, 99.9% player driven economy. My point was, there has never been any "joystick" spaceflight MMO with EVE-like economy. In fact, there has never been a "joystick" spaceflight MMO (let's call it JSMMO for brevity?), period. Jumpgate tried it, but calling it an MMO would be stretching it quite a bit.

Black Prophecy was a JSMMO.

But "its dead Jim". Didn't last a year.

Originally posted by haplo602

Originally posted by korent1991

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by WraithoneI've never met one and if I was in a hulk I'd be aligned and at the keyboard... which means that if i don't want to pew pew with that scarey goon of yours I don't have to but it would be interesting to have that happen because normally I didn't see anything but other boring old hulks, but then I wouldn't be in a hulk - I'd be in a CNR running missions and a pretty boring fitted one at that so I'd probably not be a target.  Odd isn't it?  I'd share space with the terrible goons of yours and they'd not attack me at all.

How about you go flag yourself and stand outside a popular hub in wow and see how many times you're ganked and see what you can do to avoid it except not flagging yourself?  Did you know that a flagging system is a part of wows PvE servers?

Much safer in eve online.

that's one of the top 5 nonsences I've heard :D

EVE online is known for hostile enviroment... You can't trust anyone there. Even if you're mining in the high sectors (0.9 or more) you can't be safe there as well... There's always someone who's already scanning you and waits to see if you are alone there so he can nuke you fast and get out with the loot...

Whenever I went mining I always had 2 friends watching my back (usually in mid sectors). In low sectors there were even more than 3 sometimes, depending what we were mining and how many of us went... But the chances are wherever you are in the EVE universe, someone already scanned you and is heading your way to nuke your ass.

High security space can't stop a player who knows how to do a quick nuke and where to start from... While I was still playing EVE, I saw people reporting alot of high sec ganks and it's was not so odd to see somoene being killed in high-sec sector. You always have to be careful in eve...

Please, don't emberass yourself further by comparing EVE to WOW open world PVP. xD

Hmm ... that's odd. I was never ganked in highsec in my past 5+ years in EVE. Actualy the PvP lossmails for my characters fit into single digits.

 

Yes EVE is hostile, but with a bit of common sense and research it becomes very safe.

The point is that you actually have to do that research, apply that common sense and be that cautious.

Originally posted by tom_gore

Wow this debate is still going on and I see the only ones vouching for F2P or PvE servers are those who have not played EVE or have no clue how the economy in it works.

Of course no one of us knows what would happen to EVE if it went F2P or introduced a PvE server. I would, however, wager some money that it would ultimately lose CCP more money than it would bring.

You may disagree, but at least my opinion is based on actually playing EVE.

 

Having played the game for almost 6 years, I'd have to state that I seriously doubt that EVE will ever have a PvE server.  It conflicts with CCP's one universe ideology, and also the fact that they are hard core PvP types.  The only exception has been the Chinese cluster (and that for obvious reasons...). 

But the fact remains that it would be entirely possible to run a game like EVE in terms of PvE. The graphics, missions and collecting battleships kept me busy for almost 6 years.  But again, I doubt its ever going to happen.