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EVE Online Forum » Jita (General) » If a new server was created...

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94 posts found
  Calfis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/15/11
Posts: 344

3/07/12 10:54:49 AM#21
Originally posted by SuprGamerX

Heh , people sure like to create something huge out of nothing.  Let the Asians have their tranquility , I mean what the hell will it bother others already playing?  It's not like the existing EVE players will quit to play on the Asian server.   I can't possibly see how doing this will kill EVE , but anyways , have fun arguing on something that isn't something , that made no sense , pretty much like where this thread is heading , lol.

The Chinese server is Serenity. Its basically one huge botting empire with no competition and everyone is just there to PvE and make isk. If it weren't for the Chinese government being anal about censorship they would be competing with everyone, like the rest of the world on the much more dynamic Tranquility server. Nevertheless the concept of EVE is one universe and thats not going to change because having more than one server is chic.

  Minsc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/07/04
Posts: 1281

3/07/12 1:51:06 PM#22

It seems to me that what most people don't get is that EVE is DRIVEN by player interactions. Every ship that blows up means that an industrialist sells one to replace it. Hell almost every shot fired has been built by a player. The entire game is build around player interaction and if you open up another server that will still be the case, just with a smaller population on each.

The other thing to realize is that even if they did introduce a new server, you would still be at the mercy of older players because they have an advantage over you in experience with the game. If you can't hack it in low-null sec now it would be even worse during the land-grab on the new server. The misconception that you can never catch up to veteran players has been debunked time and time again yet it still continues to come up.

Total skillpoints mean jack shit besides having more choice of what roles to fill. If you focus your training you CAN stand toe-to-toe with the vets in your focus within a few months. It's just easier for them to switch roles more quickly because they've already done the training. A new server will not change this. If you train for mining and another player trains for combat they are still going to kill you and you will still have to spend the time to train for combat if you want to meet them toe-to-toe.

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

3/07/12 2:07:13 PM#23

The problem here is that those requesting a new server "doth assume too much".

1. They assume they can't catch up, when every skill in EVE has a cap at rank 5. Oldies maxed out in combat skills long ago and now dabble in other crap that has no bearing on other spheres of gameplay. You can become dead-equal to an oldie in any of them within 3-5 months of gameplay, more if you're dead set on capital ships.

2. They assume a fresh start server will allow smaller groups to handle nullsec without armies of backup. Well. you can... for the first month. After that, you are f**ked, as the superalliances will crop back up - and in this case - it would be stupid to have diverted those numbers from the first server.

3. They assume they can get rich by becoming a market leader in some area, but without 'whales' (read; rich oldies), they won't make a dime. Everyone is poor again, and it will be a *struggle* to actually afford some later ships in this mode... and no, they should not mess with market prices on this server to suit it, even though they *could*. a) it's the complete opposite of how inflation works in the real world. b) it would convince dumb people to migrate, assuming it would be easier to outfit there.

4. *Insert even more reason NOT TO here*

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  kovah

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/05
Posts: 693

DaZeD aNd AmUsEd

3/07/12 2:41:20 PM#24

Just wanted to stop in and say how amusing (yet slightly interesting) that this topic still generates such debate after all these years of cropping up every few months with the exact same debate.

Never gonna happen btw.

o7

Carry on. 

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3737

RIP City of Heroes!

3/07/12 2:43:36 PM#25
Originally posted by daveospice

How many of you would come back?

I couldn't ever get into this game because everyone I knew was already so rich and had everything they'd ever need. 

I'd play it if a new server opened up though!

Are you serious?  Opening a new server would be the NGE of EVE Online.

  dave6660

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2350

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

3/07/12 3:55:14 PM#26
Originally posted by Toxia

Why would opening another server hurt anybody on another server? I tried the trial awhile back, and thought it was a good game, but everyone is already entrenched, corporations are done already, etc. Much like the OP said, it just seemed like i was walking into something that i could never rise to become part of.

I for one would give it a go if a new server opened for new players.

 

Can someone elaborate on why it would hurt the game just to open a new server? Does one server affect another?

Espescially with Dust coming up, i feel like alot of people will want to see the other side of the setup, in EvE, but that they will hit the same wall.

Let's turn the question around... why would opening a new server do you any good?

You're still new to the game and the vets that came over will still have a lot of experience under their belt.  The vets still know how to make money more efficently.  They still know the best regions to control and the best bottlenecks to camp.  They're still masters of the meta game.  They still have their corp and alliance friends.  By the time the new guys figure out how to fit their ships properly the veterans will already have null sec locked down again.

The first couple months might be interesting while it's mainly frig and cruiser fights but after that the new server will turn into the current server.  Except now the population is divided in half.  You gained nothing exception some perception of fairness which doesn't exist.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/07/12 4:06:21 PM#27
Originally posted by daveospice

How many of you would come back?

I couldn't ever get into this game because everyone I knew was already so rich and had everything they'd ever need. 

I'd play it if a new server opened up though!

Vets (I'm an ex-vet) would go crazy and all quit, meanwhile telling you they actually have no advantage based on their bajillion skill points LOL.  It is like a lunatic bin hearing them talk.

EVE veteran:  "You just don't get EVE if you think skillpoints mean anything.  But mess with my skillpoints and I quit."

Move along EVE noobies, there is nothing there for you.  EVE is a game run by the vets and don't be fooled by what they tell you.  Paraphrasing Gandalph:  "Remember potential EVE noobie, the veterans will tell you skill points don't mean anything.  They WANT you to join"

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2539

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

3/07/12 4:08:05 PM#28
Originally posted by daveospice

How many of you would come back?

I couldn't ever get into this game because everyone I knew was already so rich and had everything they'd ever need. 

I'd play it if a new server opened up though!

I'd consider it only if they included the expansion for PCs. Baffles me as to why they aren't.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  Kuro1n

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 775

3/08/12 1:24:54 AM#29
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by Toxia


What's the animosity for? i'm just trying to understand the game... Nevermind i guess. If you 'vet's' can't be assed into simply explaining stuff to us who aren't in the loop, why would i wanna join the game anyway, when all you've shown me to expect is this same attitude in game.

Have a nice day, i guess. Thanks for the info you did try and half ass provide me.

Look bud what you seem to be saying is "Hey, I'm a new player, I want to pay money for this game but this game isn't friendly to new players, why can't they make it so."

What its coming off as to veteran player is "Hey, I'm a new player, my money is worth more than yours because imagine if XXX amount of me join up. CCP should immediately fuck off their loyal player base and do a bunch of shit that will piss them off because that is what it is going to take for them to get my new dollars."

Not surprisingly the most common response is "Hey! FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We don't need or want your kind here, CCP is doing okay with us and we will keep playing for years so take your ideas and fuck off because you dont 'get' EVE."

This so much. Im relatively new to EVE and Im not playing a lot however if they ever decided to create another server i would unsub right away because then the devs obviously dont understand their own creation.

  dave6660

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2350

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

3/08/12 12:59:10 PM#30
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by daveospice

How many of you would come back?

I couldn't ever get into this game because everyone I knew was already so rich and had everything they'd ever need. 

I'd play it if a new server opened up though!

Vets (I'm an ex-vet) would go crazy and all quit, meanwhile telling you they actually have no advantage based on their bajillion skill points LOL.  It is like a lunatic bin hearing them talk.

EVE veteran:  "You just don't get EVE if you think skillpoints mean anything.  But mess with my skillpoints and I quit."

Move along EVE noobies, there is nothing there for you.  EVE is a game run by the vets and don't be fooled by what they tell you.  Paraphrasing Gandalph:  "Remember potential EVE noobie, the veterans will tell you skill points don't mean anything.  They WANT you to join"

So because the current Eve players aren't willing to lose their characters then the game isn't fair?  Is that your best argument?

Eve was released in 2003, I'd wager the vast majority of the current players didn't start back then.  Yet most of them somehow managed to succeed and have fun.  I started playing in Jan 2009, I joined fac war two weeks later and was PvPing with people who have been around for years.  It was a blast!  After about a year in, I took the plunge, dropped my sec status to -10 and became a pirate.  I was a 1 year old character with a giant bullseye on my back and yet I thought it was the most fun profession in Eve.  In the three years I played I managed to rack up almost 1,600 kills.

Yet my alt, even though he had 32m SP, probably could not kill a two week old player simply because he had squat for combat skills.

My story is pretty common.  If so many of us did well why do the recent new players feel like they deserve a handicap?

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/08/12 1:11:38 PM#31
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by daveospice

How many of you would come back?

I couldn't ever get into this game because everyone I knew was already so rich and had everything they'd ever need. 

I'd play it if a new server opened up though!

Vets (I'm an ex-vet) would go crazy and all quit, meanwhile telling you they actually have no advantage based on their bajillion skill points LOL.  It is like a lunatic bin hearing them talk.

EVE veteran:  "You just don't get EVE if you think skillpoints mean anything.  But mess with my skillpoints and I quit."

Move along EVE noobies, there is nothing there for you.  EVE is a game run by the vets and don't be fooled by what they tell you.  Paraphrasing Gandalph:  "Remember potential EVE noobie, the veterans will tell you skill points don't mean anything.  They WANT you to join"

So because the current Eve players aren't willing to lose their characters then the game isn't fair?  Is that your best argument?

I believe the original question was to create a new server not delete the old server.  The vets could still keep playing on their old server in this scenario and nobody would lose their characters.  Of course, there would be fewer noobs to boss around on the old server but so what?

But to your question, no I wouldn't expect the vets to actually give up their characters with the bajillion skill points.  Why would they?  They paid multiple years of subscription fees to get that built in advantage over noobs.  But at the same time I'm intellectually offended, as an ex-vet, to hear vets tell noobs it doesn't matter.  It matters a whole heck of a lot.  All you need for proof is the uproar by the vets whenever some way of easing the acquisition of skill points is brought up.

Hilarious but true story:  When CCP decided to get rid of some real basic skills that helped you train faster, there was such an uproar by the vets over even this small change in the skills that CCP gave every veteran bonus skill points as compensation for the change.  Even the veterans that had been there since 2003 got bonus skill points to compensate them so that no noob could every get even a minuscle closer to their number of skill points.  Truly hilarious how that played out...

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Calfis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/15/11
Posts: 344

3/08/12 1:22:05 PM#32
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by daveospice

How many of you would come back?

I couldn't ever get into this game because everyone I knew was already so rich and had everything they'd ever need. 

I'd play it if a new server opened up though!

Vets (I'm an ex-vet) would go crazy and all quit, meanwhile telling you they actually have no advantage based on their bajillion skill points LOL.  It is like a lunatic bin hearing them talk.

EVE veteran:  "You just don't get EVE if you think skillpoints mean anything.  But mess with my skillpoints and I quit."

Move along EVE noobies, there is nothing there for you.  EVE is a game run by the vets and don't be fooled by what they tell you.  Paraphrasing Gandalph:  "Remember potential EVE noobie, the veterans will tell you skill points don't mean anything.  They WANT you to join"

So because the current Eve players aren't willing to lose their characters then the game isn't fair?  Is that your best argument?

I believe the original question was to create a new server not delete the old server.  The vets could still keep playing on their old server in this scenario and nobody would lose their characters.  Of course, there would be fewer noobs to boss around on the old server but so what?

But to your question, no I wouldn't expect the vets to actually give up their characters with the bajillion skill points.  Why would they?  They paid multiple years of subscription fees to get that built in advantage over noobs.  But at the same time I'm intellectually offended, as an ex-vet, to hear vets tell noobs it doesn't matter.  It matters a whole heck of a lot.  All you need for proof is the uproar by the vets whenever some way of easing the acquisition of skill points is brought up.

Hilarious but true story:  When CCP decided to get rid of some real basic skills that helped you train faster, there was such an uproar by the vets over even this small change in the skills that CCP gave every veteran bonus skill points as compensation for the change.  Even the veterans that had been there since 2003 got bonus skill points to compensate them so that no noob could every get even a minuscle closer to their number of skill points.  Truly hilarious how that played out...

What is the real advantage of having a lot of SPs? Old players get ganked all the time, having more SPs is meaningless, its all about the circumstance at that time. I was in a gang that ganked this guy that has over 2 years on me and he mad:

nothing, nothing, nothing, oh hi -A- gang in the middle of fucking nowhere at the most dead time of night in a completely dead region.

> well this is a complete and utter waste =/

> gay

  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/08/12 1:29:14 PM#33
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by daveospice

How many of you would come back?

I couldn't ever get into this game because everyone I knew was already so rich and had everything they'd ever need. 

I'd play it if a new server opened up though!

Vets (I'm an ex-vet) would go crazy and all quit, meanwhile telling you they actually have no advantage based on their bajillion skill points LOL.  It is like a lunatic bin hearing them talk.

EVE veteran:  "You just don't get EVE if you think skillpoints mean anything.  But mess with my skillpoints and I quit."

Move along EVE noobies, there is nothing there for you.  EVE is a game run by the vets and don't be fooled by what they tell you.  Paraphrasing Gandalph:  "Remember potential EVE noobie, the veterans will tell you skill points don't mean anything.  They WANT you to join"

So because the current Eve players aren't willing to lose their characters then the game isn't fair?  Is that your best argument?

I believe the original question was to create a new server not delete the old server.  The vets could still keep playing on their old server in this scenario and nobody would lose their characters.  Of course, there would be fewer noobs to boss around on the old server but so what?

But to your question, no I wouldn't expect the vets to actually give up their characters with the bajillion skill points.  Why would they?  They paid multiple years of subscription fees to get that built in advantage over noobs.  But at the same time I'm intellectually offended, as an ex-vet, to hear vets tell noobs it doesn't matter.  It matters a whole heck of a lot.  All you need for proof is the uproar by the vets whenever some way of easing the acquisition of skill points is brought up.

Hilarious but true story:  When CCP decided to get rid of some real basic skills that helped you train faster, there was such an uproar by the vets over even this small change in the skills that CCP gave every veteran bonus skill points as compensation for the change.  Even the veterans that had been there since 2003 got bonus skill points to compensate them so that no noob could every get even a minuscle closer to their number of skill points.  Truly hilarious how that played out...

What is the real advantage of having a lot of SPs? Old players get ganked all the time, having more SPs is meaningless, its all about the circumstance at that time. I was in a gang that ganked this guy that has over 2 years on me and he mad:

LOL.  This is the type of disinformation constantly thrown to the noobs by the vets.  "Having more SP is meaningless"

If that is the case then in WOW/Rift being max level is meaningless, or having epic gear is meaningless.  Heck what are a bunch of 10% advantages when you can still get gang-jumped and lose.  That's like saying a leet warrior in epic gear got jumped by 10 guys with greens on and lost, so therefore epic gear didn't matter LOL.

If SP are so meaningless then why does every verteran scream bloody murder and threaten to quit over even the smallest change to make SP acquisition easier for noobs?  Because SP means a bloody lot that is why.

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7034

3/08/12 1:37:47 PM#34


Originally posted by gainesvilleg

But at the same time I'm intellectually offended, as an ex-vet, to hear vets tell noobs it doesn't matter. 

Aaah, those self-proclaimed vets...


To the OP:

If you struggle to "catch up" on current server, you will struggle to catch up on a fresh one.


You could not get into a game because you think old players are rich?

Quite a time ago, I posted 1 day old character making about 1 bill ISK. Are you still sure that SP is the limiting factor?


Give the game try, take it easy. Enjoy the learning and exploring.


Fly safe.

  User Deleted
3/08/12 1:40:03 PM#35
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by daveospice
 

 

What is the real advantage of having a lot of SPs? Old players get ganked all the time, having more SPs is meaningless, its all about the circumstance at that time. I was in a gang that ganked this guy that has over 2 years on me and he mad:

LOL.  This is the type of disinformation constantly thrown to the noobs by the vets.  "Having more SP is meaningless"

If that is the case then in WOW/Rift being max level is meaningless, or having epic gear is meaningless.  Heck what are a bunch of 10% advantages when you can still get gang-jumped and lose.  That's like saying a leet warrior in epic gear got jumped by 10 guys with greens on and lost, so therefore epic gear didn't matter LOL.

If SP are so meaningless then why does every verteran scream bloody murder and threaten to quit over even the smallest change to make SP acquisition easier for noobs?  Because SP means a bloody lot that is why.

Whilst it is disingenuous to say that SP is "meaningless" (it is far from that), it is completely different from "XP" in a game like WoW.

 

When in a ship, flying about, only so much SP is going to be actually used. A vet flying about in a BS is not going to use the millions of SP he has gained in trading and super cap skills now is he?

 

A shit load of SP does indeed grant an advantage, but not to the extent that some believe and not in the way that some believe. The WoW analogy was not really a good one.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7034

3/08/12 1:45:52 PM#36


Originally posted by gainesvilleg

If SP are so meaningless then why does every verteran scream bloody murder and threaten to quit over even the smallest change to make SP acquisition easier for noobs?  Because SP means a bloody lot that is why.

Can you be more specific about that said "uproar"?


In general, SP fills important role in the game as differing factor. Total amount of skill points is not that important, what matters is how you "invest" them. It creates differences between players as it makes them to chose - do I focus on interceptors or assault frigates?

So when SP requirements gets lowered, it means that in the same amount of time, the same person can do more things, which means he is less unique, he does not need to specialize as much as more options are easier to grab.


SP requirements means choices.

  dave6660

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2350

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

3/08/12 1:49:26 PM#37
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Calfis

What is the real advantage of having a lot of SPs? Old players get ganked all the time, having more SPs is meaningless, its all about the circumstance at that time. I was in a gang that ganked this guy that has over 2 years on me and he mad:

LOL.  This is the type of disinformation constantly thrown to the noobs by the vets.  "Having more SP is meaningless"

If that is the case then in WOW/Rift being max level is meaningless, or having epic gear is meaningless.  Heck what are a bunch of 10% advantages when you can still get gang-jumped and lose.  That's like saying a leet warrior in epic gear got jumped by 10 guys with greens on and lost, so therefore epic gear didn't matter LOL.

If SP are so meaningless then why does every verteran scream bloody murder and threaten to quit over even the smallest change to make SP acquisition easier for noobs?  Because SP means a bloody lot that is why.

Now we're going in circles.  Please don't use WoW or Rift comparisons to Eve.  It's apples and oranges.

Vets do not like the game being changed period.  Most existing players like the way it currently works.  You're asking CCP to potentially piss off their current paying customers in hopes maybe attracting a few others.  Why should they do that?  The sub numbers have been rising since release, they're doing something right.

The OP wanted a new server for new players supposedly because he feels he can't catch up.  Multiple people (myself included) gave arguments that it won't help.  I won't reiterate all the points made, please read above.

Why do you think you'll do so much better on this new server?  Vets will start over too, you won't be playing with all new players.  The SP argument is so tired I don't want to go into for the 1,000,000,000th time.  Should CCP open a new server again in 2-3 years because that crop of new players is supposedly "behind" again?  How do you explain all the players who started years after release and are successful?

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  Zaltark

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/06
Posts: 430

3/08/12 1:50:06 PM#38

I dont think a new server should be created. I think the existing one needs a good purge to get rid of all the cob-web corps.

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2650

3/08/12 1:50:26 PM#39

I will admit, I do not know a lot about Eve, I was interested in playing it, but when I was reading threads about it, and then deciding if I liked it's systems...I came across the fact that players get more points or cap points or whatever it is...It was a while ago I looked into the game...So I am sure I am saying it wrong.

 

Well, that really put me off, I am fine with grinding, but the concept that no matter how much time I put into it, I couldn't overcome the advantage someone had on me, that I would always have inferior circumstances to work with turned me off.  That is what I got from reading on the system probably a couple years ago.  It may or may not mean a lot in the end, but it just didn't sit well...I mean I can see vet rewards that are cosmetic or whatever, but I was/am relucatant to play any game where I have to stay inferior, no matter the time I am willing to put into it.

 

  Zaltark

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/06
Posts: 430

3/08/12 1:53:42 PM#40

Lets make it simple. Just because someone has 5million SP doesnt mean he put them into say piloting frigates. He could be the best trader in the world, but has no combat skills. Thats why this is a skilltree game.

 

I put my points into covert ops. I can fly around cloaked all day. I may not have the biggest ships, but who else can cloak like me? Thats what it means to specialize. It only takes a few weeks or a month to hit 'max' in any specilalized feilds except the ones that actually require a full corp to run(aka cap ships/titans/PlayerOwned Stations)

 

 

So what this means is that It only takes a few weeks to have THE SAME skill level at piloting frigates as a vet.

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