Originally posted by TruthXHurts

I can see that you're one of those who is always right... Don't know why I ever even quoted a Bronie...

shoo

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by revy66

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

and this my friends is why we should be playing MMO's. Reread that paragraph...drama, excuses, compete against each other, "tears", "excuses" chestbeating, trolling, nerdrage...and most importantly..."even though I was on the losing side"..."i still enjoyed it."

You can't find this in Skyrim...and I play Skyrim. Many other MMO's don't offer this. Thanks for coming to the board and making a clear and concise statement about why EvE, even with it's "spreadsheet layout", "boring combat", "red box vs red box" combat, is still the best, hands down MMO out there.

This is also why this will never be popular though.

Joe Averageguy doesn't come for the drama and stays for the nerdrage.

Joe Averageguy especially doesn't like getting offended in his free time either. When I think about it, you need to have a very specific personality to actually enjoy this, like it takes a very specific personality to enjoy 4chan.

Define popular. EVE is one of the most popular p2p MMOs on the market right now, so I'd say quite a few people have this "very specific personality" to be able to enjoy this game.

Popular defines itself by the most popular game in a given genre. If you are of course refering to Sandbox MMOs EVE is doing quite nicely.

Taking the whole MMO segment, not so much.

Then again there isn't any sandbox set in the same theme (space) available right now, so if you want a sandbox and space, you are going to play EVE.

I'd actually say, its the only space sim MMO out there, sandbox or themepark, so it lends itself to being popular. Well maybe Darkspace, but i just couldn't take the horrible UI and non-existant anything in that game. At least EVE is nice to look at.

Inb4 STO and Black Prophecy, both are arcade shooters not sims.

 

This is btw not diminishing of anything EVE achieved, its just a general observation of the market. "Hard" sandboxes tend to have small populations. EVE certainly is the best of the lot though.

Its as close as you can get to an "oldschool" AAA sandbox right now.

Name 5 subscription based payment scheme MMORPGs on this website that have better numbers than 360k and cite references.

Here's mine:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/02/eve-online-has-over-360000-players-63170-simultaneous-users-in-january/ 

I think you and I both know you just created an impossible to answer question. Most MMOs, barring WoW, do not brag about their subscription numbers.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

I can see that you're one of those who is always right... Don't know why I ever even quoted a Bronie...

To be fair, you are a bit of a thread crasher. All you do is try to push SQO, it wouldn't be as bad if it tied in better with the current discussion rather than just you saying "SQO iz teh awesome" but Adam was talking about how the player driven end game in EVE doesn't sit well with casual players.

Btw I've had a look at SQO, cool features, crap graphics but overall it has a lot of potential. But since it doesn't have the community that EVE does its unlikely that I'll actually give it a try. In short it doesn't have the end game with all the player built empires, mercenary groups and innocent farmers that EVE's nullsec has, and all the dynamic out of game player interactions (sh*t poasting, trolling/getting trolled/counter trolling, hurf blurf, e-threats, e-honor, chestbeating, elitism etc) as a result of all those things happening in game.

Originally posted by Bow-wow-wow

I am a long time MMO player and not too long ago I tried the 14 day trial of EvE and tried really hard to get into it but just couldn't. The whole space idea and the player run economy look so much fun and I think I would have a blast getting into but the actual gameplay just isn't fun. The mining is sitting in one spot for 5 minuites while you mine, that isn't exciting at all. Even the combat is just selecting a red dot, selecting attack and waiting untill they die. Maybe it is just that I am not patient enough for EvE but I keep trying to get into and it is so hard, mainly because the gameplay isn't fun.

 

Any EvE players have advice of when/if/how this gets less boring or do you just need extreme patience to enjoy this game?

I'm with you.  Eve should be my perfect mmo, but it isn't.

I didn't mind mining in small doses.  But the fact that everyting in combat happens 'over there' I didn't like either.

Since you didn't like mining to make your isk did you try other things.  Missions or exploring for starters?

Also did you try the pvp? One of eves big pulls is you can do his from the start and as far as i know is the big 'action' side of the game.

Originally posted by SlaverHound

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by revy66

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

and this my friends is why we should be playing MMO's. Reread that paragraph...drama, excuses, compete against each other, "tears", "excuses" chestbeating, trolling, nerdrage...and most importantly..."even though I was on the losing side"..."i still enjoyed it."

You can't find this in Skyrim...and I play Skyrim. Many other MMO's don't offer this. Thanks for coming to the board and making a clear and concise statement about why EvE, even with it's "spreadsheet layout", "boring combat", "red box vs red box" combat, is still the best, hands down MMO out there.

This is also why this will never be popular though.

Joe Averageguy doesn't come for the drama and stays for the nerdrage.

Joe Averageguy especially doesn't like getting offended in his free time either. When I think about it, you need to have a very specific personality to actually enjoy this, like it takes a very specific personality to enjoy 4chan.

Define popular. EVE is one of the most popular p2p MMOs on the market right now, so I'd say quite a few people have this "very specific personality" to be able to enjoy this game.

Popular defines itself by the most popular game in a given genre. If you are of course refering to Sandbox MMOs EVE is doing quite nicely.

Taking the whole MMO segment, not so much.

Then again there isn't any sandbox set in the same theme (space) available right now, so if you want a sandbox and space, you are going to play EVE.

I'd actually say, its the only space sim MMO out there, sandbox or themepark, so it lends itself to being popular. Well maybe Darkspace, but i just couldn't take the horrible UI and non-existant anything in that game. At least EVE is nice to look at.

Inb4 STO and Black Prophecy, both are arcade shooters not sims.

 

This is btw not diminishing of anything EVE achieved, its just a general observation of the market. "Hard" sandboxes tend to have small populations. EVE certainly is the best of the lot though.

Its as close as you can get to an "oldschool" AAA sandbox right now.

Name 5 subscription based payment scheme MMORPGs on this website that have better numbers than 360k and cite references.

Here's mine:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/02/eve-online-has-over-360000-players-63170-simultaneous-users-in-january/ 

Why?

Whats the point of this excercise that is relevant to what i said?

---

Originally posted by Crusader13
 
Been having more fun with single player games these past few years anyways.

---

And yet we have to believe that despite the game being considered by yourself boring and terrible mechanics, you stuck with the game long enough to make any supposedly qualified judgement?

I would advice you to actually give the game a try and learn for yourself instead of making assumptions.

Fly safe.

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by SlaverHound

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by revy66

Originally posted by AdamTM

Originally posted by CactusJack

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by Naral

The difference being, you are not forced to compete against the TF2 players (simply don't play against them) or raid against the WoW guilds. 

You are forced to inhabit the same setting (0,0 space) with the ass hats in EVE because it *is* the only world. That's why my friends were put off.

The only reason that is done is because the players are the end game. The inevitable drama that ensues from making all the high level players compete against each other is the content of the game. I actually just finished reading about 5 pages of forum "smug"  from enemies of my alliance mixed in with intermittent "tears" and "excuses" from my alliance's forum moutherpieces. Even being on the losing end of things its still thoroughly enjoyable to read all the chestbeating, trolling, and nerdrage that ensues as a result of battles in the game. Its interesting because it is one world.

and this my friends is why we should be playing MMO's. Reread that paragraph...drama, excuses, compete against each other, "tears", "excuses" chestbeating, trolling, nerdrage...and most importantly..."even though I was on the losing side"..."i still enjoyed it."

You can't find this in Skyrim...and I play Skyrim. Many other MMO's don't offer this. Thanks for coming to the board and making a clear and concise statement about why EvE, even with it's "spreadsheet layout", "boring combat", "red box vs red box" combat, is still the best, hands down MMO out there.

This is also why this will never be popular though.

Joe Averageguy doesn't come for the drama and stays for the nerdrage.

Joe Averageguy especially doesn't like getting offended in his free time either. When I think about it, you need to have a very specific personality to actually enjoy this, like it takes a very specific personality to enjoy 4chan.

Define popular. EVE is one of the most popular p2p MMOs on the market right now, so I'd say quite a few people have this "very specific personality" to be able to enjoy this game.

Popular defines itself by the most popular game in a given genre. If you are of course refering to Sandbox MMOs EVE is doing quite nicely.

Taking the whole MMO segment, not so much.

Then again there isn't any sandbox set in the same theme (space) available right now, so if you want a sandbox and space, you are going to play EVE.

I'd actually say, its the only space sim MMO out there, sandbox or themepark, so it lends itself to being popular. Well maybe Darkspace, but i just couldn't take the horrible UI and non-existant anything in that game. At least EVE is nice to look at.

Inb4 STO and Black Prophecy, both are arcade shooters not sims.

 

This is btw not diminishing of anything EVE achieved, its just a general observation of the market. "Hard" sandboxes tend to have small populations. EVE certainly is the best of the lot though.

Its as close as you can get to an "oldschool" AAA sandbox right now.

Name 5 subscription based payment scheme MMORPGs on this website that have better numbers than 360k and cite references.

Here's mine:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/02/eve-online-has-over-360000-players-63170-simultaneous-users-in-january/ 

Why?

Whats the point of this excercise that is relevant to what i said?

Eve's population is better than the industry standard and EVE is not just some niche game that appeals to a small population of players as you've asserted above.  EVE's population is above the market for it's subscription model and year over year has increased it's playerbase and as of right now there are no MMORPGs except for EVE that can make that boast.

I reject all of you claims above and throw EVEs 360k playerbase in your face as my proof that, for it's payment scheme and market, EVE is within the top 5 of market leaders - now you go prove me wrong and g'luck.

Well this mmo is not for everybody taste, thats for certain. Its a very good game, I myself played it for some time. But, it needs persistent player, who has time and will to cope with this type of mmo. There are no potions and magic to save you here.

Agreeed, I played for 4 years and had a lot of fun but had to give it up because it just eats your life away.  I played for 18 hours staright once...of course it was due to my Alliance taking over another Alliance's territory.  It was fun, but after that, I realized it was the end for me.  ROADKILL was the Alliance I was in and it was great fun but i just could not do the 4, 8, 12 hour runs anymore.  I hope someday, when i retire in many years, EVE is still around.  I would enjoy playing it to my grave.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Crusader13
 
Been having more fun with single player games these past few years anyways.

---

 

And yet we have to believe that despite the game being considered by yourself boring and terrible mechanics, you stuck with the game long enough to make any supposedly qualified judgement?

I would advice you to actually give the game a try and learn for yourself instead of making assumptions.

Fly safe.

You don't have to believe anything. I've been playing EVE since Red Moon Rising. I stuck with the game because of the cool people I met in it and IRL friends who played too, not because the game itself was fun. 99% of the time I spent playing eve I was staring at my ship doing something boring or nothing at all (Or having the game minimized and playing an actual, fun game) 1% of the time was fighting or getting ready to fight.

I would 'advice' you to actually think before you post, because if you took the time to consider what I wrote, it would be clear to you that I know what I'm talking about and have played longer than you've been registered on this excellent review site. I don't make assumptions, I wrote that post out of first hand experience and a prolonged case of 'bittervet' from being overexposed to CCP. Please tell me what I wrote is false, I would love to see that.

Originally posted by Proletarian

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Crusader13
 
Been having more fun with single player games these past few years anyways.

---

 

And yet we have to believe that despite the game being considered by yourself boring and terrible mechanics, you stuck with the game long enough to make any supposedly qualified judgement?

I would advice you to actually give the game a try and learn for yourself instead of making assumptions.

Fly safe.

 

 

You don't have to believe anything. I've been playing EVE since Red Moon Rising. I stuck with the game because of the cool people I met in it and IRL friends who played too, not because the game itself was fun. 99% of the time I spent playing eve I was staring at my ship doing something boring or nothing at all (Or having the game minimized and playing an actual, fun game) 1% of the time was fighting or getting ready to fight.

I would 'advice' you to actually think before you post, because if you took the time to consider what I wrote, it would be clear to you that I know what I'm talking about and have played longer than you've been registered on this excellent review site. I don't make assumptions, I wrote that post out of first hand experience and a prolonged case of 'bittervet' from being overexposed to CCP. Please tell me what I wrote is false, I would love to see that.

 

I have to agree with Gd - you might of started playing with red moon rising but the points you make either aren't EVE specific but rather general MMORPG complaints or indicate that you've not played for very long.

Let's pick one that annoys me whenever I hear it:

The Skill Training: make no mistake, this is a game that favors vets. Do not let other EVE players try to convince you otherwise. No new player could have bested me in 1v1 combat in any ship class, especially the way I fitted my ships.

This is the mistake new players make when they consider EVE online's skill system so it suprises me that a vet such as yourself would still be confused by it.  A new player can catch up to a vet when it comes to specific fits and ships.  The fight is won in the hanger before you launch into space.  There is no ability in space that allows you to switch out modules or change your ship on the fly.  You must play the hand you've drawn for yourself before you set out and hope it's enough to win.  Those 300 million skill points won't help you if you're in a ship that requires 1 million with mods that require 500k skillpoints...

No group of new players could have bested my corp in wormhole space combat (barring a massive tactical derp). We had too much accumulated wealth and too many pilots had maxed out literally every skill for multiple races. Yeah, new players sure stood a chance against our faction/deadspace/officer fitted fleets in C6 space. Took a lot of the challenge out of the game honestly. 

Even the wealthiest group of vets wouldn't of been able to unseat you under those circumstances never mind a gaggle of new players, but aside from that, ALL MMORPGs that have craftables, PVP, and a player driven market, will favour the wealthy, so that's a complaint directed towards MMORPGs in general or life in general for that matter...

Enjoy your single player games and I mean that sincerely.

Originally posted by Proletarian

I think you and I both know you just created an impossible to answer question. Most MMOs, barring WoW, do not brag about their subscription numbers.

Because most MMORPG's have nothing to brag about.  (most live in a steady state of decline)

Over the years DAOC was pretty honest until EA absorbed them (they still publish actual number of players online on the server however) and NCSoft always was pretty forthright.

Now it's true, 360K subs in EVE doesn't mean 360K players, far from it, but still there is a pretty healthy population and on any given night you can find 30-60K people online which is more than enough to keep you occupied.

(though this one time I took on over 15K solo and destroyed them all, in one blow even!) 

Originally posted by Fritoman

Agreeed, I played for 4 years and had a lot of fun but had to give it up because it just eats your life away.  I played for 18 hours staright once...of course it was due to my Alliance taking over another Alliance's territory.  It was fun, but after that, I realized it was the end for me.  ROADKILL was the Alliance I was in and it was great fun but i just could not do the 4, 8, 12 hour runs anymore.  I hope someday, when i retire in many years, EVE is still around.  I would enjoy playing it to my grave.

R0ADKILL is long dead bro, your friends are probably in Brick sQuad. Dicking around in NPC 0.0 ganking random people.

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

I can see that you're one of those who is always right... Don't know why I ever even quoted a Bronie...

To be fair, you are a bit of a thread crasher. All you do is try to push SQO, it wouldn't be as bad if it tied in better with the current discussion rather than just you saying "SQO iz teh awesome" but Adam was talking about how the player driven end game in EVE doesn't sit well with casual players.

Btw I've had a look at SQO, cool features, crap graphics but overall it has a lot of potential. But since it doesn't have the community that EVE does its unlikely that I'll actually give it a try. In short it doesn't have the end game with all the player built empires, mercenary groups and innocent farmers that EVE's nullsec has, and all the dynamic out of game player interactions (sh*t poasting, trolling/getting trolled/counter trolling, hurf blurf, e-threats, e-honor, chestbeating, elitism etc) as a result of all those things happening in game.

Besides being right about the playerbase being small you are wrong on all counts. The SQO endgame has all of that and more. It's just a very small group of people pulling the strings. Check it out after the wipe and when it goes F2P. I thnk this fresh start is just what it needs to become a truly epic game.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Proletarian

I think you and I both know you just created an impossible to answer question. Most MMOs, barring WoW, do not brag about their subscription numbers.

Because most MMORPG's have nothing to brag about.  (most live in a steady state of decline)

Over the years DAOC was pretty honest until EA absorbed them (they still publish actual number of players online on the server however) and NCSoft always was pretty forthright.

Now it's true, 360K subs in EVE doesn't mean 360K players, far from it, but still there is a pretty healthy population and on any given night you can find 30-60K people online which is more than enough to keep you occupied.

(though this one time I took on over 15K solo and destroyed them all, in one blow even!) 

Were you flying that super veteran exclusive ship called a hyperglobalmegaship that has hundreds of slots and fires a barrage regular ships at your enemies?  It happens so often to us newer players that I can't be sure that I was there but were you the one that launched a death blossom of battleships and space stations?  I was in a squad of 10 and we were able to evade the battleships but that space station you fired at us hit us for millions of damage of all kinds!

I wish I had the skill points to fly a hyperglobalmegaship too but I've only been playing for 5 years.

Good times.

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

I can see that you're one of those who is always right... Don't know why I ever even quoted a Bronie...

To be fair, you are a bit of a thread crasher. All you do is try to push SQO, it wouldn't be as bad if it tied in better with the current discussion rather than just you saying "SQO iz teh awesome" but Adam was talking about how the player driven end game in EVE doesn't sit well with casual players.

Btw I've had a look at SQO, cool features, crap graphics but overall it has a lot of potential. But since it doesn't have the community that EVE does its unlikely that I'll actually give it a try. In short it doesn't have the end game with all the player built empires, mercenary groups and innocent farmers that EVE's nullsec has, and all the dynamic out of game player interactions (sh*t poasting, trolling/getting trolled/counter trolling, hurf blurf, e-threats, e-honor, chestbeating, elitism etc) as a result of all those things happening in game.

Besides being right about the playerbase being small you are wrong on all counts. The SQO endgame has all of that and more. It's just a very small group of people pulling the strings. Check it out after the wipe and when it goes F2P. I thnk this fresh start is just what it needs to become a truly epic game.

It would probably garner a lot more interest if it also had a graphics face lift. I came to EVE partly because of shiney spaceships. EVE forum porn(tears, arguments, etc) made me stay. A big open world is nice but you need people to play with, nothing beats the feeling of being a part of a group that is about to go kick some arse.

When I grew bored with the PVP aspect of EVE, I grew bored with EVE.

PVE was only fun for a short time when I started the game. Exploration with probes was one of the most fun aspects for me in PVE. Mining and crafting disappointed me, because it is very passive. In any other sandbox type MMO I usually love the crafting. I also didn't find character progress interesting. The skills are interesting, but skilltraining based on just timers is not my idea of fun.

So for me the only longevity came from PVP. But that became to onesided for me to sustain a sub.

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

I can see that you're one of those who is always right... Don't know why I ever even quoted a Bronie...

To be fair, you are a bit of a thread crasher. All you do is try to push SQO, it wouldn't be as bad if it tied in better with the current discussion rather than just you saying "SQO iz teh awesome" but Adam was talking about how the player driven end game in EVE doesn't sit well with casual players.

Btw I've had a look at SQO, cool features, crap graphics but overall it has a lot of potential. But since it doesn't have the community that EVE does its unlikely that I'll actually give it a try. In short it doesn't have the end game with all the player built empires, mercenary groups and innocent farmers that EVE's nullsec has, and all the dynamic out of game player interactions (sh*t poasting, trolling/getting trolled/counter trolling, hurf blurf, e-threats, e-honor, chestbeating, elitism etc) as a result of all those things happening in game.

Besides being right about the playerbase being small you are wrong on all counts. The SQO endgame has all of that and more. It's just a very small group of people pulling the strings. Check it out after the wipe and when it goes F2P. I thnk this fresh start is just what it needs to become a truly epic game.

It would probably garner a lot more interest if it also had a graphics face lift. I came to EVE partly because of shiney spaceships. EVE forum porn(tears, arguments, etc) made me stay. A big open world is nice but you need people to play with, nothing beats the feeling of being a part of a group that is about to go kick some arse.

They have new devs who plan to do just that... DX11 graphics, WASD movement, a new UI, They've fixed the oppresive government system even. If they can deliver half the things they promise then they have a winner. Basically you have ot ask yourself... Do you want graphics or solid gameplay? Until the AAA companies start producing good sandbox games then you are just going ot have to face ti and play games with bad graphics. Some of the best computer games I've ever played have had horrible graphics. Minecraft is a perfect example. the game i shugely popular and without player made mods the graphics are a joke.

If forum wars are your thing SQO is chock full o fthat, and until the wipe some of the games major political decisions are made by forum warriors. Have a look though. there is some rich history in the action reports and GNN sections.

SQO Forum