Originally posted by Yalexy

 

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Originally posted by Nerf09
Again, I'm not going to subscribe in 2011 so I can start playing in 2013.  And I'm certainly not going to do it with a 2nd account, following some narrow pathway, maximized plan I have to stick to for over a year with no deviation whatsoever; dang even WOW is more sandbox then that.

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You fail to see, that you can be an asset to a group in PvP even if you're only flying a Rifter equipped with an afterburner/MWD and a warpdisruptor/warpscrambler. And this is trainable in less then two weeks!

Why would I subscribe to a game to play the pawn?

You don't need to flying battleships or any expenisve ships... that's the mistake you make in all your pointless rambling right there.

Yeah that stuff is reserved for players who payed longer.

How long does it take you in WoW to get to LvL 85 and have a complete T11-set?

Never, I'm not that much a lamer to grind raids till my eyeballs fall out.

Right... it's gonna take you some month and if unlucky with lootdrops in the dungeons it can take you aswell over six month.

It's not gonna take me anything, I don't get to T11 set, in fact I've only done one raid, saw how sucky and lame it was and never did it again.

And all that requires you to have a raidguild backing you up, which is pulling you through the content and the dungeons.

Never.

You simply are searching for the wrong game and because you can't have the pie and eat it you make stoopid suggestions of how to change a perfectly fine working system.

almost all MMO games are like this, it's hard to find the "right game" when they're all wow clones, and this suggestion would make EVE 100 times better. 

You types who have been subscribed for 1+ years just want to keep your Pay2Win advantage, so other players become your pawn.  A pawn to some online nerd, I don't think so.

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by CactusJack

so by your thinking, the way to fix all the poor people is for the gov't to send out bundles of money in the mail? Would the introduction of say..100k USD to each American fix the economy? No, it would devalue the dollar so low....

Lame broken analogy to real world economy inflation/deflation.

The fact you can't counter it other than saying it is lame, makes it correct. He might have exaggerated the money figures, but his statement holds value. Ingame economy is not so different from real world economy, it is still driven by greed and fear, people still have to use their time to earn the currency, virtual or not.

The facts and the 'omg too long to grind money/skill for PVP in EVE!' perception is actually interesting.

The facts are that in less than a MONTH you can PVP and make a difference in EVE-Online.

This is actually very different from other WoW-clones where you have to get to 'max level' and PVP doesn't really mean anything.

Don't believe me? Look up TEST Alliance Please Ignore. They are a power-house in 0.0 and recruit from the 'Dreddit' community. 

Look up Goonswarm Alliance which once again is a power-house in 0.0 and recruit from the 'Something Awful' forums.

Both power-houses and both recruit from their respective communities.

In less than 10days you are in fleet with 50 other people making a difference in battle.

If 0.0 isn't your thing, look up EVE-University. 

3 examples where a new person can play the 'end-game' in less than a month and all 3 example alliances shower their members with everything. Why?

Cause in EVE, getting YOU to 'LOGIN' = WIN for the Alliance. Don't worry, you'll figure it out once you join. :)

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by Dubbleedge

lmao. That is all. Learn to play :)

You mean grind for 3 years, to get the skills to be able to grind for a battleship in only 2 hours, OK gotcha.  I take that back, it doesn't take 1 month to get a battleship, it takes 3 years of grinding to get the skills to be able to grind for a battleship quicker.

I'm not going to subscribe in 2011 so I can finally play in 2014. 

If you have to exaggerate your arguments to such ridiculous extremes to make a point, then it's likely  you didn't have a point in the first place.

You clearly have a huge problem with the game that others don't seem to be so bothered by. Instead of trying to force your opinions on others - to the point of being condescending and snarky, even to those offering solid and reasonable rebuttals - perhaps the best solution is for you not to subscribe in the first place. Or, cancel your sub and move on to something that better suits you, 'cause it certainly sounds like you're not enjoying Eve.

That's not what you want to hear, I'm sure; it would be easier if everyone agreed with you - which they obviously don't. Regardless, it's what you need to hear.

Eve has been the way it is for years, a harsher and unforgiving MMO. It's been improving and gaining in popularity over the years despite this fact. Clearly there are a lot of other people who like it the way it is, regardless of your personal problems with it.

Considering a lot of people play Eve, and partake in lower sec activities, they're bound to lose ships, including really expensive ones. I highly doubt these people are sitting on their laurels, mining space rocks and running missions for 3 months to get back into a good ship. Perhaps what you should be doing is asking those more experienced with the game for advice on how to better prepare and mitigate that down-time so you can be back into the game more quickly.

That would not only be more constructive and helpful to yourself, it would also be a lot more reasonable than suggesting that the game be changed to suit you.

Originally posted by Nerf09

Reduce manufacturing cost of everything by 95% so when you lose your mining battleship it won't force you to grind for another month to get it back.  Instead it will only force you to grind for about an hour to get it back. 

There you go, now everyone will be in 0.0 space blasting the hell out of each other and having a great time doing it.

You're missing the point of EVE, which is to simulate real world risk vs reward therefore making PVP something one only does when they have a reasonable chance of winning (or so they believe).

Or to put it more simply, you are supposed to try to kill your opponent while making sure you don't die in the process.

The current game design supports this fairly well, and few players willingly throw away their ships, they're always trying their best to avoid losing.

PVP is not a casual affair in EVE, it never was intended to do so.

While your suggestion might increase PVP that isn't the purpose of the game.  PVP is important in EVE, but not nearly as much as maintaining the balance between risk vs reward.

It sucks that most other titles out there are WOW clones, but that isn't CCP's fault, their game most certainly isn't even if it isn't to many folks liking.

CCP has always designed EVE for the people who enjoy it's unique features (including real time skill training), harsh environment, and the reward of living in a well made virtual universe.

If that's not what you're looking for, then EVE isn't the game for you.

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by CactusJack

so by your thinking, the way to fix all the poor people is for the gov't to send out bundles of money in the mail? Would the introduction of say..100k USD to each American fix the economy? No, it would devalue the dollar so low....

Lame broken analogy to real world economy inflation/deflation.

The fact you can't counter it other than saying it is lame, makes it correct. He might have exaggerated the money figures, but his statement holds value. Ingame economy is not so different from real world economy, it is still driven by greed and fear, people still have to use their time to earn the currency, virtual or not.

Wrong.  Its an analogy that doesn't work.  Inflation just kills savings, decreasing mineral inputs by 95% wouldn't effect savings it would increase output.  Inflation doesn't increase output. 

Try another non-aggressive insult.

Originally posted by Kyleran

 

You're missing the point of EVE, which is to simulate real world risk vs reward therefore making PVP something one only does when they have a reasonable chance of winning (or so they believe).

There is no risk in camping a gate, in fact players take very very few risks when it takes a month of grinding to get their ship back after one death. 

And there's very little reward mindlessly grinding for years and years knowing you will never catch up because of real time skill training.

Or to put it more simply, you are supposed to try to kill your opponent while making sure you don't die in the process.

The current game design supports this fairly well, and few players willingly throw away their ships, they're always trying their best to avoid losing.

Which is why something like 90% of players stay in safe space, nobody wants to spend another month grinding to get their ship back.

PVP is not a casual affair in EVE, it never was intended to do so.

Yeah it's devestating, it'll take 1 month of grinding to get your ship back after you die.

While your suggestion might increase PVP that isn't the purpose of the game.  PVP is important in EVE, but not nearly as much as maintaining the balance between risk vs reward.

Hehe, the risk vs reward comment again.

It sucks that most other titles out there are WOW clones, but that isn't CCP's fault, their game most certainly isn't even if it isn't to many folks liking.

CCP has always designed EVE for the people who enjoy it's unique features (including real time skill training), harsh environment, and the reward of living in a well made virtual universe.

If that's not what you're looking for, then EVE isn't the game for you.

Real time skill training is as unique as that away experience bonus time in WOW, the effects are the same: equalizing skilling up between players who play longer and those who play less (except for the very extremes).  If you were to graph it, with playing time/week on X axis and experience points/week on Y axis:

-Everquest clones would look like a line with an upward slope

-Eve Online would look like a line without an upward slope

-WOW would start out like an Everquest clone, and then at the middle the slope would narrow closer to Eve Online's zero slope.

They're all progression based games.

Originally posted by jpnz

The facts and the 'omg too long to grind money/skill for PVP in EVE!' perception is actually interesting.

The facts are that in less than a MONTH you can PVP and make a difference in EVE-Online.

I bet a level 40 WOW character can "make a difference" in a battleground map of level 85's.  The level 40 can delay the level 85's for like 10 seconds by running around in circles before being killed.

Why would I want to play a pawn to players who have subscribed longer?

Nerf09, it's quite obvious that Eve is not for you. I hope you do find what you are looking for, brother. 

I can only smile at the notion that he says the frigate with the tackle abilities is the pawn. In null sec, if you don't have a tackler in your party, you are not going to get good kills period. In our roam groups, if you want to make money, be a tackler. We usually tip him for setting us up for the kill. You'd earn your battleship back in one tackle.

When I got to where Nerf said he was mining in a battleship that threw a red flag. And then the constant rejection of any and all advice, well that will really hurt you when trying to play Eve.

So whats it going to be Nerf? accept defeat and cut your losses?

The simple solution is to go play a different game.  You're asking for such a major change that it would completely change the foundations that the game was created on.  You think it makes sense, but you obviously fail to grasp a lot of the game's concepts, and one of EVE's biggest lessons is to 'adapt or die'.  Well, you're not adapting, you're complaining.

Go play a different game that actually caters to the style of play you are looking for.

Originally posted by Nerf09

 

Why would I subscribe to a game to play the pawn?

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by jpnz

The facts and the 'omg too long to grind money/skill for PVP in EVE!' perception is actually interesting.

The facts are that in less than a MONTH you can PVP and make a difference in EVE-Online.

I bet a level 40 WOW character can "make a difference" in a battleground map of level 85's.  The level 40 can delay the level 85's for like 10 seconds by running around in circles before being killed.

Why would I want to play a pawn to players who have subscribed longer?

yup its outrageous, they should fastrack the levelling experience down to 2 weeks I think, and balance all the ships so they do all have the same statistics and normalise skill to try and get everyone to have the same level of performance give or take a few %. I find it disgusting that someone that has played for 6 years has an adavantage over me, i have invested over a month of my valuable time for at least a few hours a day and pay a subscription.

Originally posted by bossalinie

Nerf09, it's quite obvious that Eve is not for you. I hope you do find what you are looking for, brother. 

 

I can only smile at the notion that he says the frigate with the tackle abilities is the pawn. In null sec, if you don't have a tackler in your party, you are not going to get good kills period. In our roam groups, if you want to make money, be a tackler. We usually tip him for setting us up for the kill. You'd earn your battleship back in one tackle.

How useful would a frigate with slots used up to "tackle" (snare WOW-clone), in 0.7 space against NPC's, you'd die against NPC's in safe space geez.

Originally posted by Bladestrom

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by jpnz

The facts and the 'omg too long to grind money/skill for PVP in EVE!' perception is actually interesting.

The facts are that in less than a MONTH you can PVP and make a difference in EVE-Online.

I bet a level 40 WOW character can "make a difference" in a battleground map of level 85's.  The level 40 can delay the level 85's for like 10 seconds by running around in circles before being killed.

Why would I want to play a pawn to players who have subscribed longer?

yup its outrageous, they should fastrack the levelling experience down to 2 weeks I think, and balance all the ships so they do all have the same statistics and normalise skill to try and get everyone to have the same level of performance give or take a few %. I find it disgusting that someone that has played for 6 years has an adavantage over me, i have invested over a month of my valuable time for at least a few hours a day and pay a subscription.

Well my idea to reduce mineral requirements by 95% has absolutely nothing to do with the linear-level-grind of Eve Online, wouldn't effect it one bit.  All this talk about that is pretty much sidetracked by the Eve Fanbois.

I saw what the end-game would be and didn't like it, and the problem is the massive mine-grind involved with getting ships and how losing a ship is such a huge deal nobody takes risks so everyone gate camps.   *yawn*  That's the endgame huh, gatecamping and a horrible fear of losing your ship.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Nerf09

 

Why would I subscribe to a game to play the pawn?

 

I believe you have to earn the right to play the king. Lose the WoW mindset of everyone getting to be the hero.

Well that's the beauty of Eve Online, you will never catch up with the time based skills and infinite cap on skills, and the fact that I wouldn't want to play King gate camper.  I mean how boring is that.

ARGH MATEY let's play Pirates.......and camp a gate for 6 hours straight:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwyuGD9DSZA

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Nerf09

 

Why would I subscribe to a game to play the pawn?

 

I believe you have to earn the right to play the king. Lose the WoW mindset of everyone getting to be the hero.

 I wouldn't want to play King gate camper.  I mean how boring is that.

Then uh, don't?  lol

Don't mine to make a ship.  You don't need to mine at all to get ships.  You don't need to gatecamp to pvp.  Skillpoints is far less important than player skill, and there are tons of pvp videos out there to show this.  Losing your ship should be a learning experience, not something to FEAR.

Reducing mineral requirements makes every ship so freaking easy to produce, that there are tons of them on the market.  Way more than the demand of players, so their price plummets.  Then pvp in the game is trivialized.

Pretty much everything you say is wrong or a bad idea.

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Don't mine to make a ship.  You don't need to mine at all to get ships.  You don't need to gatecamp to pvp.  Skillpoints is far less important than player skill, and there are tons of pvp videos out there to show this.  Losing your ship should be a learning experience, not something to FEAR.

 

Reducing mineral requirements makes every ship so freaking easy to produce, that there are tons of them on the market.  Way more than the demand of players, so their price plummets.  Then pvp in the game is trivialized.

 

Pretty much everything you say is wrong or a bad idea.

Reducing mineral requirements by 95% makes every ship so freaking easy to produce, that there are tons of them on the market.......which lower the price by 95% which would mean instead of 90% of players always staying safe in safe space 90% of players would be venturing out into 0.0 space which would destroy 80% more ships increasing demand by 80%, increasing market activity and transportation by 80% and making PVP the biggest factor in the game for everyone, trivializing your argument that it would trivialize PVP.

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by kadepsyson

Don't mine to make a ship.  You don't need to mine at all to get ships.  You don't need to gatecamp to pvp.  Skillpoints is far less important than player skill, and there are tons of pvp videos out there to show this.  Losing your ship should be a learning experience, not something to FEAR.

 

Reducing mineral requirements makes every ship so freaking easy to produce, that there are tons of them on the market.  Way more than the demand of players, so their price plummets.  Then pvp in the game is trivialized.

 

Pretty much everything you say is wrong or a bad idea.

Reducing mineral requirements by 95% makes every ship so freaking easy to produce, that there are tons of them on the market.......which lower the price by 95% which would mean instead of 90% of players always staying safe in safe space 90% of players would be venturing out into 0.0 space which would destroy 80% more ships increasing demand by 80%, increasing market activity and transportation by 80% and making PVP the biggest factor in the game for everyone, trivializing your argument that it would trivialize PVP.

Actually, not sure if you know this, since you don't seem to know much about EVE, but you can only fly one ship at a time.  I'm fairly certain that if every ship were suddenly 5% of their normal price and weren't going to go back up, I would not be buying 80 of every ship, and just throwing myself into my doom for no reason.

I might buy a few more ships, but hardly enough to quantify an 80% increase in the demand for ships.  But since the ship is essentialy worthless in terms of how much it cost me, I could care less about losing it really.  Then, pvp wouldn't have the excitement or get my heart racing.  It'd be like playing a WoW battleground.

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