I have tried the trial of this game a few times and it actually got to a point where I bought this game and played it a couple of months. The game is awesome but each time I played it I felt I was ripped off. Why?

First, with the timed skill system you can "incubate" your character for a year or so and then come back fully skilled, which is essentially the same as buying all skills with a one year shipping and handling fee. Shouldn't you be enjoying development of your character through an in game progression curve and not through a timed sequence somewhere on the side?

Second, the monthly fee is a rip off staring me right in the face. I guess they tried to hide the fact with those neat expansions. I don't know the exact statistics but I'm pretty sure that in bandwidth this game compares to tile based mmos like runescape. Except, runescape is only 6$ a month, no initial cost and enjoyed a countless number of expansions so far. 8$/month is the max I would give EVE in light of the fact that there is more graphic art involved.

I feel this game could be so much more thanks to its sandbox architecture which demands more player input. But for now fee-sensitive gamers like me will just stay away.

Considering the skills you are training have to fit within a 24 hour window (yes you can train skills that take longer than 24 hours but only that one) then you would have to constantly log in to train new skills. If you are only going to log in long enough to add new skills and you are willing to pay for a game for that long not to play it,  you are kinda dumb. Also, skills don't train when you are not subbed.

Originally posted by Romik

I have tried the trial of this game a few times and it actually got to a point where I bought this game and played it a couple of months. The game is awesome but each time I played it I felt I was ripped off. Why?

First, with the timed skill system you can "incubate" your character for a year or so and then come back fully skilled, which is essentially the same as buying all skills with a one year shipping and handling fee. Shouldn't you be enjoying development of your character through an in game progression curve and not through a timed sequence somewhere on the side?

What about your characters reputation? Corp standing for missions? Knowledgeability? Rising up through the ranks of a player corp? Thats where all the development is man.

Second, the monthly fee is a rip off staring me right in the face. I guess they tried to hide the fact with those neat expansions. I don't know the exact statistics but I'm pretty sure that in bandwidth this game compares to tile based mmos like runescape. Except, runescape is only 6$ a month, no initial cost and enjoyed a countless number of expansions so far. 8$/month is the max I would give EVE in light of the fact that there is more graphic art involved.

14.95 is standard for AAA MMO titles. Runescape is not AAA. Besides, for one $15 a month is nothing and two you can use in game currency to pay for your sub.

I feel this game could be so much more thanks to its sandbox architecture which demands more player input. But for now fee-sensitive gamers like me will just stay away.

Not trying to be an ass but I don't think the Eve community will miss out on some pure mission runner/miner.

I don't think the title should have been CCP is too greedy.  Instead is should have been, "I am too poor" or "I am too cheap".

Just because you might not like the game mechanics doesn't mean others don't, infact from the constant increase in players, I would say it is the opposite.

Money is not an issue for me as much as devteam's character and attitude towards players. The monthly fee and what goes into it represent these two qualities. If it is disproportional then IT IS disproportinal. Yes sure EVE is of AAA standratd as far as graphics, music and gameplay goes but when it comes to value I would say no it is not AAA. Overall, it is not AAA. I just can't think of any AAA mmorpg which has this dispropotianlity. For example, I am playing WoW much of my time and EVE only casually. I wish I could play EVE more but the timed skilling cuts my ambitions as far as character development goes. I stop playing EVE for the day and go back to WoW. In turn, this makes me wonder why I should give 15$ worth of gratitude to EVE for such limitations not to mention the bandwidth-wise disproportianlity in the fee.

I'm sorry to say this but EVE will never grow big enough to compete with other major mmorpgs. The value threatens the instincts of anyone with even a slight idea of what a fair trade is. Ironically so, since this game revolves around plunder and trading.

They also give a free expansion every 6 months, and have never raised the price of the game.  In fact, you get the game itself and a month of playtime for only $20.  You forget, or simply are not aware, that this time--based skills game model was in place since the game's start, and this game was NOT always popular.  It has grown steadily since its release, but it took several years until it was doing anything remotely noteworthy.

CCP is an independant company, and when they released this game they worked for roughly 6 months without pay because their publisher shafted them and they couldn't even release boxes on shelves for years.  So the game grew through solely digital download for YEARS.

You have a very different view on CCP than what's real.  You act like bandwidth is important, but you ignore the facts.  They have one of the most impressive server infrastructures of any MMO in existence.  The game world is a single server, which has hosted over 60k people online at once.  You speak of bandwidth like you have a clue what your talking about.  The fact that 1000 vs 1000 player battles can even occur and be relatively playable is an incredible feat technologically.

And finally, CCP has one of the closest relationships to its playerbase of ANY gaming company out there.  The level of attention CCP pays to their playerbase is second to none, and that is an unchallengable fact.  Whether its Fanfests, the CSM (player-elected council which actually go to CCP's company directly and present ideas and changes based on what the players want), or just the faucet of information they release to the players informing them on what they're doing.  They will kill an idea if their playerbase is against it.  How many companies will actually do that instead of just forcing a change through every time and expecting the players to deal with it?

You are extremely misinformed, and you didn't seem to put a lot of thought into this thread before you posted it.  And I hate to tell you, but EVE is already competition to other major MMOs.  350k+ subscribers, and its the ONLY MMO to have consistently grown in numbers since its release.  CCP is a major hitter now, which is why they merged with White Wolf and are working on 2 other titles now, as well as a MAJOR addition to the current game EVE, in the form of an entirely new social medium in which to play - Walking in Stations.

You are acting like CCP just sit there collecting a fee every month and don't do anything to the game.  But they are constantly improving it and the technology running the game.  For nothing more than a single monthly fee.  Hell, you don't even HAVE to pay a monthly fee if you don't want.  You can purchase game time from other players using ISK in-game, and you don't have to pay a dime if you don't want to.  Seriously, everything about this thread is biased and uninformed.

Everything you said about bandwidth frustrates me to no end, because you have no idea what you're even talking about.

Originally posted by Sheista

Everything you said about bandwidth frustrates me to no end, because you have no idea what you're even talking about.

I have the same feeling to the contrary as EVE is known for its light bandwidth. The 1000 vs 1000 battles you mentioned can only be compared to a few hack and slash WoW-type raids and these battles don't happen often anyhow. The load on EVE server is limited and the massive events are scarce. Most of the time everyone is either inside the station, traveling or adventuring alone.

That was the most intelligent wording for such a useless and illogical post. Also, Did you just compare runescape to eve? Never heard that one before.

Originally posted by Romik

Originally posted by Sheista

Everything you said about bandwidth frustrates me to no end, because you have no idea what you're even talking about.

I have the same feeling to the contrary as EVE is known for its light bandwidth. The 1000 vs 1000 battles you mentioned can only be compared to a few hack and slash WoW-type raids and these battles don't happen often anyhow. The load on EVE server is limited and the massive events are scarce. Most of the time everyone is either inside the station, traveling or adventuring alone.

 

You are completely wrong.  And nothing WoW has ever done can even compare to what EVE does with its servers.  WoW lagged in Orgrimmar when 200 people got together.  500 people in a single place in EVE is nothing.  Jita, the largest trade hub in the game averages 1500+.  No raids of WoW's have ever compared to the scale of EVE's.

This is what I'm talking about.  You are incredibly misinformed about this whole thing.  Massive fights happen in EVE often.  Either cite your sources for where EVE is 'known' for its light bandwidth, or gtfo.  You are completely full of it.

FYI - CCP discusses the logistics of their hardware and networking often, which is how I know you are completely wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.

Also, you're assuming way too much about the logistics inside the company too.  CCP have a lot of overhead these days.  Monthly fees don't pay for bandwidth.  They pay for all the development inside the game.  That's the main way CCP makes money.  Not off sales, but off their single monthly fee.  That's what fees are for on any game, not just EVE.  You expect them to make no profit and just pay for maintaining the game as it is?  Well that just speaks loads about your knowledge of the industry.

Seriously, you just made up things you assumed in your head, and posted your thoughts.

Let me sum this thread up: A person who likes to play Runescape and apparently WoW doesn't like EVE.  Ok, so what? Go play Runescape and/or WoW.

EVE is an acquired taste, those who love it play, those who do not whine that it isn't like the games they like.  If you do not like EVE do not play it, don't whine about how it isn't what you like, the time spent whining could be used finding a game that suits your likes.

Originally posted by ElderRat

Let me sum this thread up: A person who likes to play Runescape and apparently WoW doesn't like EVE.  Ok, so what? Go play Runescape and/or WoW.

EVE is an acquired taste, those who love it play, those who do not whine that it isn't like the games they like.  If you do not like EVE do not play it, don't whine about how it isn't what you like, the time spent whining could be used finding a game that suits your likes.

He's not even whining about the gameplay really.. just the skills.  He's whining about stupid company-related things he's not informed about.

Can anyone informed please make a statement here? No one here has any clue about bandwidth. For example, someone in this thread compared an armada of FLOATING ships in EVE to a mob of MILLING characters in WoW and called this a comparison. Yet another person thinks that comparing one aspect of a game like runescape to another aspect of a game like EVE is the same as comparing both games altogether.

Originally posted by Romik

Can anyone informed please make a statement here? No one here has any clue about bandwidth. For example, someone in this thread compared an armada of FLOATING ships in EVE to a mob of MILLING characters in WoW and called this a comparison. Yet another person thinks that comparing one aspect of a game like runescape to another aspect of a game like EVE is the same as comparing both games altogether.

 

Except you seem to think WoW's servers, which contain maybe 3k-5k people TOPS on a heavily populated server, are somehow comparable to 60k+ people being connected to a single world.  On a single node in EVE, there could easily be more players than an entire WoW server can even contain.  And MANY more players in one place, than in WoW.

How is what EVE players do any different than what WoW players do when it comes down to it?  They're all sending requests to a server, and the server is sending a response.  People are still connected, and the server is still doing thousands of calculations a minute.  Floating in space, and walking around on land, have nothing to do with bandwidth or networks.  It's still sending information back and forth all the same.  An entire fleet sending commands, activating modules, interacting with another couple hundred ships, and calculating the different numbers for everything going on.. And that's just in that particular system, which is a part of a much larger node that contains many systems, of which there could be a couple thousand other people in, also doing things.  That is an incredible load on the server.  You simply can not discredit CCP's technology, or the work they put into making their server the most competetive in the MMO industry.  Stop acting like you're the only one who knows what they're talking about, when it is crystal clear that you don't have a single clue about anything EVE related.  And I guarantee I'm not the only one who would agree with that sentiment.

Anyways, I've made my points.  Just a guy either trolling (he did make his account just to post this thread), or being clueless and uninformed.

Stated my reasons why CCP is not greedy.

You guys do realize that you are not talking about one pysical server, right.  These are server clusters that work together.  It is not like CCP has one freaking server to WoWs 100 or how ever many realms they have. 

The fact is that EVE players are very protective of their game.  To compare EVE to about any other MMO is just silly.  It takes a lot less to process.  EvE has chunks and Zones just like everyone else.  It is easier to make it seem seemless because the backdrop does not change nearly as much as other games. 

This idea that EVE is some sort of techincal marvel is a joke.  They have a very nice game that many people enjoy.  They have not done anything special outside of that. 

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Originally posted by Sheista

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Originally posted by ElderRat
Let me sum this thread up: A person who likes to play Runescape and apparently WoW doesn't like EVE.  Ok, so what? Go play Runescape and/or WoW.
EVE is an acquired taste, those who love it play, those who do not whine that it isn't like the games they like.  If you do not like EVE do not play it, don't whine about how it isn't what you like, the time spent whining could be used finding a game that suits your likes.

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He's not even whining about the gameplay really.. just the skills.  He's whining about stupid company-related things he's not informed about.

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I'm not a big Eve fan...so I don't play the game. This seems to be a fantastically simple solution to my dilemma of what to do about Eve. So much so that I haven't even thought about it until I got to this thread (which I thought was going to be about the new developers making money off of Eve thing).

The mechanics in games are not put there solely to make money off of players. I'd be willing to bet there are developers at CCP who worked on the Eve skill system who didn't care one little bit about whether or not the skill system would make money for Eve or not. They just thought that was a good way to do skills in the game.

You also have to keep in mind that every single mmorpg employs methods to get you to keep playing the game, preferably forever. That's how they make money. Nearly the entire genre is one big time sink. The difference between good games and bad is whether or not those time sinks are satisfying for the players of the game. You should note I didn't say that they should just be satisfying...just satisfying for the players of the game. For Eve players, the time sinks are fun. If they aren't fun, don't play.

@MMOman101 - CCP created the largest, single world shard multiplayer game in existence. They also spent 7 years creating a sci-fi game that is now self sufficient...nay, a money maker in a genre dominated by medieval fantasy. Whether they brute forced it with servers or finessed it with code, they've still done something that nobody else has managed to do. I can't think of another game currently running where 500 to 1,000 players could muck about in the same general area without having severe client or server issues. Rift could probably do it on the server side, but I don't think the clients would manage to render all the players. :-)

Originally posted by MMOman101

You guys do realize that you are not talking about one pysical server, right.  These are server clusters that work together.  It is not like CCP has one freaking server to WoWs 100 or how ever many realms they have. 

The fact is that EVE players are very protective of their game.  To compare EVE to about any other MMO is just silly.  It takes a lot less to process.  EvE has chunks and Zones just like everyone else.  It is easier to make it seem seemless because the backdrop does not change nearly as much as other games. 

This idea that EVE is some sort of techincal marvel is a joke.  They have a very nice game that many people enjoy.  They have not done anything special outside of that. 

Yes.  I referred to this the entire time.  The fact that you don't think their technology is a marvel, is baffling.  That and the rest of your post is bordering on nonsensical and trolling.  I can understand if you've never actually read up on their servers and what makes them tick, but once you have, it's easy to see there is a reason CCP quickly jumped into the forefront of game makers, and is able to be classed with the giants of the genre.