EVE Online Forum » Jita (General) » EBank scandal

EBANK Ricdic seams has robbed 200 billions from EBank and involved in RMT

www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp

i never *got* ebank, i could give them money... and they would then give it back to me? wow.

related coverage at massively

www.massively.com/2009/06/10/eve-onlines-largest-player-run-bank-rocked-by-embezzlement/

ROFL! EVE is quite the game with a lot of drama lately.

Man, I am starting to run out of Popcorn :D

well, eve is all about the drama, this is pretty standard stuff.

never a dull moment.

Originally posted by Xennith

i never *got* ebank, i could give them money... and they would then give it back to me? wow.

...with interest. It is just like a regular bank. They borow your money to fund their investments and pay you a few coins a month  in return for you allowing them to do so.

well I decided to keep the moneybecause i expect rate for Savings accounts too increase :D

Didn't a Ponzi scheme almost exactly like this one happen three or four years ago?

http://razorwire.warcry.com/news/view/64279

I swear, people are such retards... even EVE is full of mouthbreathers, it's not just WoW these days.

Scamming is the single most profitable enterprise in EVE, as long as you think big and have a silver tongue, from what I've seen. That's what makes the game so awesome!

EDIT: Yes, I know it's "just one rotten apple" and "EBANK is still a legitimate enterprise"... yeah, right. Once they've got more money than they know what to do with, they might as well take it and keep it. Unlike in the real world, you can't get arrested for stealing all of your investors' money in EVE, so there's no incentive not to.

Why people fail to understand this is beyond me.

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Originally posted by DoktorTeufel
Once they've got more money than they know what to do with, they might as well take it and keep it. Unlike in the real world, you can't get arrested for stealing all of your investors' money in EVE, so there's no incentive not to.

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You really think they get arrested? ;-)

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by DoktorTeufel
Once they've got more money than they know what to do with, they might as well take it and keep it. Unlike in the real world, you can't get arrested for stealing all of your investors' money in EVE, so there's no incentive not to.

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You really think they get arrested? ;-)

Do you possess the skill of reading comprehension? Let me break this down quite simply:

In real life, if the CEO of a major investment firm steals the investors' money and flees, he'll be on the run from the CIA, the FBI, local police, etc.

In EVE, if the CEO of a major investment firm steals the investors' money, no one can do a damned thing about it. They can shun the stealing character, but then if the character's an expendable scam front, the money can simply be transferred to the scammers' real account.

So, let me get this straight.  The player in the game of Eve, running the EBank(short for Eve Bank used by players in game for game purposes) scammed players out of money and then took some of the money and exchanged it for real money out here in the real world?   He stole 200bilion isk and had it turned into real currency out here?   How uch would that be in RL currency?

If the player did do that, couldn't he be perscuted in a real life court for virtual theft?

What is CCP doing about this if it is true?

CCP purposely turns a blind eye to in-game theft and scams. If someone can infiltrate your corporation, gain your trust, and take a bunch of your stuff, it's theirs. Similarly, if you're the victim of a scam, then it's better luck next time. Hacking into someone's account isn't allowed, of course, but if you can do something within the game to relieve someone of their assets, that person is SOL.

So it may be possible for CCP to take some sort of action against the scammer if he converted the ISK into real-life money, but in all likelihood this would amount to nothing more than account and/or IP banning.

As for the theft itself, there's nothing to be done about it. That's how EVE has always worked.

As for the IRL value of the ISK, looking at the current exchange rate on the forums for Game Time Cards, that's $8,000-$9,000 (IRL dollars) worth of ISK.

Thanks for explaining it.   lol so much drama.    ^_^

I understand the idea of buyer beware and a fool and his money yet the ability for people to rip others off with out any meaningful way to retaliate just drives me crazy.

Early on I purchased a contract with a number of items in it only to discover that a couple of fairly valuable items had been "accidentally" left out. Yeah, it was my fault not to be more careful in looking through everything before committing and I certainly have added that person to my personal list of people to avoid but it would have been nice for there to be some sort of way to actually go there and rip his heart out (or get myself blown into itty bitty pieces more likely).

I enjoy EvE and I find a lot going for it but there are certain things that just drive me up the wall and more so in EvE than in other games I have play or are currently playing.

Plus there is the constant annoyance of if you voice your opinion you tend to be called a loser and don't understand the game and to go away.

Anyway, if you do want to play EvE just keep in mind that while there are a lot of very nice and helpful people in the game that many of them are really quite evil and willing to steal everything you have and spit on your grave when they are done.

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Originally posted by DoktorTeufel
Do you possess the skill of reading comprehension? Let me break this down quite simply:
In real life, if the CEO of a major investment firm steals the investors' money and flees, he'll be on the run from the CIA, the FBI, local police, etc.
In EVE, if the CEO of a major investment firm steals the investors' money, no one can do a damned thing about it. They can shun the stealing character, but then if the character's an expendable scam front, the money can simply be transferred to the scammers' real account.

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I assume you never read newspapers or such alike...

Originally posted by rwmiller

Anyway, if you do want to play EvE just keep in mind that while there are a lot of very nice and helpful people in the game that many of them are really quite evil and willing to steal everything you have and spit on your grave when they are done.

EVE is a great game that has all kinds of folks and it really gives great insight to how broken many peoples moral compasses are today.

I personally think scamming is a low-life thing to do, however many in game (and in here I'm sure) don't.

We all have to live according to our concience, and I could not do something like this guy did to friends of mine. (hell, I couldn't do it to strangers, I'm just not wired like that)

Originally posted by Teala

So, let me get this straight.  The player in the game of Eve, running the EBank(short for Eve Bank used by players in game for game purposes) scammed players out of money and then took some of the money and exchanged it for real money out here in the real world?   He stole 200bilion isk and had it turned into real currency out here?   How uch would that be in RL currency?

If the player did do that, couldn't he be perscuted in a real life court for virtual theft?

What is CCP doing about this if it is true?

He converted it to, estimated, around $5,000-$10,000 USD is the best estimates I've seen.

What did CCP do?

Banned his account.  Nothing more they can do.   

Important note, however:

200 billion is somewhere south of 5% of the total investments in EVE Bank.  What makes EBANK work in EVE is that no person involved with running it ever has access to more than 5% of the total funds.  EBANK holds and trades TRILLIONS  of isk in player isk within the game.  200bil is a drop in the bucket.  Players invested in EBANK will likely notice a slight dip in interest payouts from their investments for a few weeks till EBANK re-coups the loss.  But overall?  It's not a game breaker even if  the total isk taken is rather large.

TBH I think the guy who turncoated on BOB got away with FAR more isk with what he did.  Though he didn't RMT it.

Originally posted by Taram

Originally posted by Teala

So, let me get this straight.  The player in the game of Eve, running the EBank(short for Eve Bank used by players in game for game purposes) scammed players out of money and then took some of the money and exchanged it for real money out here in the real world?   He stole 200bilion isk and had it turned into real currency out here?   How uch would that be in RL currency?

If the player did do that, couldn't he be perscuted in a real life court for virtual theft?

What is CCP doing about this if it is true?

 

He converted it to, estimated, around $5,000-$10,000 USD is the best estimates I've seen.

What did CCP do?

Banned his account.  Nothing more they can do.   

 

Important note, however:

200 billion is somewhere south of 5% of the total investments in EVE Bank.  What makes EBANK work in EVE is that no person involved with running it ever has access to more than 5% of the total funds.  EBANK holds and trades TRILLIONS  of isk in player isk within the game.  200bil is a drop in the bucket.  Players invested in EBANK will likely notice a slight dip in interest payouts from their investments for a few weeks till EBANK re-coups the loss.  But overall?  It's not a game breaker even if  the total isk taken is rather large.

 

TBH I think the guy who turncoated on BOB got away with FAR more isk with what he did.  Though he didn't RMT it.

ummm

"He stole roughly 200 Billion of our 2.3 Trillion in deposits (8.6%)."

This guy who stole all this isk, is he in anyway related to the current administration we have here in the states.

Originally posted by vinzone

Originally posted by Taram

Originally posted by Teala

So, let me get this straight.  The player in the game of Eve, running the EBank(short for Eve Bank used by players in game for game purposes) scammed players out of money and then took some of the money and exchanged it for real money out here in the real world?   He stole 200bilion isk and had it turned into real currency out here?   How uch would that be in RL currency?

If the player did do that, couldn't he be perscuted in a real life court for virtual theft?

What is CCP doing about this if it is true?

 

He converted it to, estimated, around $5,000-$10,000 USD is the best estimates I've seen.

What did CCP do?

Banned his account.  Nothing more they can do.   

 

Important note, however:

200 billion is somewhere south of 5% of the total investments in EVE Bank.  What makes EBANK work in EVE is that no person involved with running it ever has access to more than 5% of the total funds.  EBANK holds and trades TRILLIONS  of isk in player isk within the game.  200bil is a drop in the bucket.  Players invested in EBANK will likely notice a slight dip in interest payouts from their investments for a few weeks till EBANK re-coups the loss.  But overall?  It's not a game breaker even if  the total isk taken is rather large.

 

TBH I think the guy who turncoated on BOB got away with FAR more isk with what he did.  Though he didn't RMT it.

 

ummm

"He stole roughly 200 Billion of our 2.3 Trillion in deposits (8.6%)."

 

I stand corrected.

However, it's still not like the entire bank got looted.  And 8.6% is still easily recoverable by them in a very short ammt of time.  As I said, worst case, they stop paying interest on accounts for a couple months till the money is re-couped.  Then it's back to business as usual.

Biggest risk to EBANK right now is that folks lose faith in it and pull all their money.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

 

I assume you never read newspapers or such alike...

Clearly your reading comprehension isn't that great when reading newspapers, either. There has never been a clear-cut case of investor fraud in the United States wherein the authorities didn't investigate, then seek to arrest and prosecute the fraudster(s). Maybe it's different in other countries, or maybe you're too obtuse to realize that there's a difference between losing investments and stealing them.

-----------------------------------------

In any case, back on topic: I seem to recall reading that the scammer in this EBANK case authorized an unsecured loan of 275 million ISK to an undisclosed client. If that money was also stolen, that means EBANK is down 475 million ISK, a full 20% of their total capital.

But that's unimportant. What's really important is this: Now people have a reason not to trust EBANK in the future. Hundreds of billions of ISK are confirmed missing, and hundreds of billions more may be gone as well.

The fact of the matter is, every EBANK "trustee" could conspire with the others, and simply make off with all the ISK. If they didn't try to RMT it, they could simply keep it to use in-game, and CCP wouldn't bat an eye. You really can't trust anyone in EVE with your ISK, especially if you're getting a high return on your investment (because that is a strong sign of a scam).

And if you're getting a moderate return... well, is that really worth risking your entire nest egg over? The sane answer is, not really.

Originally posted by DoktorTeufel

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

 

I assume you never read newspapers or such alike...

 

Clearly your reading comprehension isn't that great when reading newspapers, either. There has never been a clear-cut case of investor fraud in the United States wherein the authorities didn't investigate, then seek to arrest and prosecute the fraudster(s). Maybe it's different in other countries, or maybe you're too obtuse to realize that there's a difference between losing investments and stealing them.

-----------------------------------------

In any case, back on topic: I seem to recall reading that the scammer in this EBANK case authorized an unsecured loan of 275 million ISK to an undisclosed client. If that money was also stolen, that means EBANK is down 475 million ISK, a full 20% of their total capital.

But that's unimportant. What's really important is this: Now people have a reason not to trust EBANK in the future. Hundreds of billions of ISK are confirmed missing, and hundreds of billions more may be gone as well.

The fact of the matter is, every EBANK "trustee" could conspire with the others, and simply make off with all the ISK. If they didn't try to RMT it, they could simply keep it to use in-game, and CCP wouldn't bat an eye. You really can't trust anyone in EVE with your ISK, especially if you're getting a high return on your investment (because that is a strong sign of a scam).

And if you're getting a moderate return... well, is that really worth risking your entire nest egg over? The sane answer is, not really.

TBH Most people who have money in EBANK have less than 20% of their total assets in it.  Nobody in their right mind puts their 'entire' nest egg in EVE into any 1 venture.  Personally I have investments out totalling over 6 billion isk right now.  But they're not all invested in the same people.  Diversification, in EVE just as in the real world, is the only way to be remotely safe if you're trusting other people with your money. 

That said, I've never felt that great about EBANK tbh... the ROI just isn't high enough to justify sinking the kind of funds into it to get a decent rate of return.   It's nice if you're a multi-billionaire like some folks I know to dump a few spare billions into but for folks who have under 10billion isk it's not really a wise investment.  I think the top payout you can get is 3% whereas there are plenty of other folks who've proven themselves to be trustworthy in game that do IPO's that have a ROI of 6% or more.  A much wiser investment because they're not only higher payout they're also shorter term, generally.   Not to mention they're usually playing with much smaller total isk values thus the risk of them running off with the funds is a lot less than with folks who are tempted daily by wallet balances in the hundreds of billions ;)

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Originally posted by DoktorTeufel
Clearly your reading comprehension isn't that great when reading newspapers, either. There has never been a clear-cut case of investor fraud in the United States wherein the authorities didn't investigate, then seek to arrest and prosecute the fraudster(s). Maybe it's different in other countries, or maybe you're too obtuse to realize that there's a difference between losing investments and stealing them.

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Being investigates does not mean being caught...
Let me fix it for you:

In real life, if the CEO of a major investment firm steals the investors' money and flees to Seychelles Islands/input similar country here/, he'll be on the run from the CIA, the FBI, local police, etc. but no one can do damn thing about it.

Scamming in EVE is pretty much the same as in RL, you leave your past behind and hide under new indentity.

Originally posted by Elsabolts

This guy who stole all this isk, is he in anyway related to the current administration we have here in the states.

No but he's got the mindset of the previous administration.