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EVE Online Forum » Game Suggestions » Where Eve falls short

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71 posts found
  Zeroxin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2499

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

1/18/10 4:51:19 AM#41
Originally posted by chivalry20k

I am a soon to be ex-EVE player with 2 accounts. When I first started playing, I thought I could get around my aversion to the forced PvP, but I can't anymore.

I personally think a player should be allowed to flag his account as a non-pvp account thus only having the dangers of NPC's to kill you. Note I said account, not toon.

I have lost a few ships and just recently lost two. Not to war dec's or me causing anyone problems. But to gankers in far superior ships and with MUCH older toons. SInce when does it take 5 ships (2 Hurricanes, a Tengu, and 2 others I don't remember) to kill a Hulk? The loss of 200Mil in ships hurts a lot especially when I don't have the standing with any corp to grind level 4 missions 30 times a day. In other words, 200Mil is approximately 2 months of playing to me. And now that time is totally wasted.

The loss of the ships isn't that bad overall. I have 2 hulks in high sec systems and 4 Drake's I built myself (the other ship I lost) in stock.

The annoying part is that the people attacked for no reason other than they could. In essence griefers.

Now, there are people in EVE who scream that adding more robust PvE and protection for PvE'ers will destroy the economy. Bull-Cookies to that. It's the same as the whines that ship prices would change because of the bug CCP never fixed in the POS Systems that the alliance called BOB controlled. IE. Free stuff to make either T2 or T3 ships and components for over 2 or 3 years and added up to TRILLIONS of ISK. Supposedly dozens if not hundreds of accounts owners never had to pay for their accounts for years as they could purchase game time with ISK.

The economy would change SOME but no where near as much as the rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth PvP'ers claim. All they want is more targets to try to kill.

Coming from an economics background myself, I figure the changes I list below will cause T1 ships to drop in price by a small amount and still allow the vast majority of players to get their PvP on. That is because PvE'ers will only have to replace ships destroyed by NPC's so less expenses and more ISkies to build stuff.

1.) Flag entire accounts as PvE. If you want to to just PvE, then that's all you will do. In this way, CCP will be able to retain more PvE'ers too. And the VAST majority of accounts in EVE will stay exactly the way they are now. Out of the 500 or so peeps I have played with over the time I have been in EVE, I only know a half dozen that would happily do away with ALL PvP.

2.) Add MORE PvE content. Things like Fleet Combat, Dead Zone exploration (where probes do not work), and other things could probably be added easily. Instance it like fantasy games do.

3.) Do not allow PvP'ers / PvE'ers to lock on each other. Period. If CCP wants to add a duel feature, go ahead. But it's unneeded as far as I am concerned.

4.) A Corporation is either standard or PvE. If it's PvE, only PvE flagged players can join it. Toons on PvE flagged accounts can only be members of NPC Corporations or PvE flagged Corporations. Also, PvE Corps can't be war dec'd.

5.) NPC's in .4 and lower are STRONGER and force miners to have escorts if they want to mine. No changes would be necessary in .5 and higher.

6.) This last change is just to piss off high sec griefers. NO CAN FLIPPING of PvE flagged toons. You open a container of a PvE flagged toon, you get wiped out by the Concord.

One kinda cool thing I just thought of (at least it would be cool in my mind) is that maybe allow PvE Corporations to war dec each other.

Now, don't get me wrong, I like EVE a LOT. I enjoy the complexity, training system, and all that. I just can't stand the way CCP forces PvP down your throat.

Cheers! Fly Safe and may many killmails be yours.

Chivalry20

 

I'm glad Eve was one of my first MMOs or else I would have been spoilt by the large amount of PvE games out there. In Eve to be a carebear is to be extremely cunning, you have to know alot and do alot and that takes a while. If you expect not to be shot at by 2 hurricanes and a tengu when you enter losec then you are seriously doing something wrong. One thing you should note is NEVER MINE IN LOWSEC unless you have someone watching your back and even then its still a risk.

You can play Eve completely free of PVP, stay in your NPC corp, don't leave hisec and mine all the roids in the world but that can get stale and of course you will want to leave hisec, you will always want to see that place where Jaspet is abundant and NPCs in belts have 500k to their name but no, because you have been spoilt by hisec you can never see the dangers coming, you will never know that you could easily have avoided that tengu and those two hurricanes and the other two that you dont remember if only you took the time to understand how things worked in that area of space. Its not the game's fault, i'm pretty sure the tutorial warned you that lowsec is where pirates operate but because you haven't learnt "the rules" yet you decide no one's going to shoot you down, hell i would shoot you down just to remind you that mining in lowsec is not something you should consider as your day job.

This is not a game.

  ChristopherE

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/10
Posts: 17

2/28/10 10:05:50 AM#42

The title of this thread is "Where Eve falls short", well for me CCP falls short in that it hasn't yet fixed the small font fault on the games User Interface for players who use large screen monitors of 22 - 24 inches and above, and who use their monitors default resolutions to see the HD graphics the game has.

You can only enlarge the UI font to 12 points, which makes the lower case letters at 1920 x 1200 2mm high, and no more.

If you have a 17 inch monitor you'll be fine at its default resolution of 1024 x 768, as the lower case letters are 3mm high, and the icons on the left of the screen ar a comfortable 10mm high, but if you have a now standard 24 inch monitor or larger at its default resolution of 1920 x 1200 or higher then your eyes will not be happy as you squint and try to read the tiny text on the UI when you are sat at a comfortable distance from the screen. The same effect is if you play at HD resolution or 1920 x 1080.

Note: On 30 inch monitors at their default resolution of 2560 x 1600 it gets worse, as the lower case letters are now just 1 millimeter high, and the icons on the left of the UI are now a mere 5 millimeters high.

You can have a comfortable text size that can be read at 1024 x 768, or you can play the game with HD graphics, but you cannot do both at the same time...yet.

EVE players are usually older and not 16 years old with 20/20 eyesight.

When EVE was developed, 19" monitors was as good as it got. Now many peoples PC's have flat wide screen monitors, combined with the more powerful graphic cards have double resolution, not to mention triple the pixel density as was available when Eve was developed.

Thus as a result the font size situation is ridiculous, and needs to be fixed as CCP hasn't really changed anything in this UI scheme except colors, and they haven't listed any reasonable UI modifications in years.

I can only speculate the cause on four things:

(1) Eve doesn't have the talent to improve the UI or else why have they have prioritized by piling on more content features than fixing the UI. i.e. eye candy before practicallity. As the Eve font, and font size is symptomatic of the lack of usability consulting. Some experts in the field of UI font size and font design for graphical accessibility and usability should be on the dev team.

(2) The Eve developers when they first developed the game did something really stupid, like hard code the font sizes in several different places or, even worse, make the layouting engine not able to scale.

(3) Long time / hardcore Eve players who tolerate the UI suffer from cognitive dissonance.

(4) So long as its punters keep paying their subs to play the game CCP just doesn't give a dam.

I'd like to give CCP money via the subscription, and play this game beyond the two week trial, and just making the text bigger would go a long way for me and lots of regular Eve players, say making the font sized so it is at maximum size on the screen is 5 millimeters high would be wonderful.

But the impression I get is that CCP just doesn't care how the UI is as long as it looks the part, and while I'm on the subject. It's not just the font, as I mentioned all the icons become too small too at high resolutions. I wish some of the CCP GUI people could spent a few days playing on a 24" or bigger screen with 1920 x 1200 or higher resolution, and then tell the Eve community how easy it was to read the tiny text on the games UI without getting eye strain and a headache...or not.

Plus a game like Eve should even have the option of being entirely keyboard-driven. But it's pretty much the opposite. It demands a lot of mousing. If any game could induce RSI from using a mouse, this one would be it.


 

Christopher

  User Deleted
2/28/10 10:29:27 AM#43

Every game has pros and cons.

Eve's cons is its Pve even though damn near the entire playerbase runs missions, rats,plex and wormholes.

It must be fun for someone if so many people do it. I mean why do something you don't enjoy?

  Gdemami

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6382

2/28/10 11:05:33 AM#44


Originally posted by Rockgod99

It must be fun for someone if so many people do it. I mean why do something you don't enjoy?


Why do you have a job you do not like?

Sometimes you do things you do not enjoy in order to do think you enjoy.

  cyress8

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/05
Posts: 866

BOOYAKA!

2/28/10 11:10:31 AM#45


Originally posted by Gdemami

Originally posted by Rockgod99


It must be fun for someone if so many people do it. I mean why do something you don't enjoy?


Why do you have a job you do not like?

Sometimes you do things you do not enjoy in order to do think you enjoy.



Umm, maybe since I need food on my table? My bills need to be paid? What kind of comparison was that?

BOOYAKA!

  SwampRob

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/07
Posts: 1009

2/28/10 12:23:42 PM#46

I played Eve for a while, and I think it's a great game, just not for me.    Eve is a PvP game, (which is why I left) but it's a bit silly to say that is a failing of Eve.    For the majority of Eve players, that is it's strength.   If you want to see people quit in droves, remove the open PvP aspect of it.

I had a few minor quibbles with the game.   For as complex as it is, I found the tutorial waaaay too short.   It needs to be about 6 hours imo.    The other part I didn't like was travel times.    Often it would take 10 to 20 realtime minutes to go from one place to another.    That's just dull.

I think for a growing number of fans, Eve is the PvP game.

*Sorry about the large font, my eyes aren't what they used to be.

  User Deleted
2/28/10 12:26:43 PM#47
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Rockgod99

 

It must be fun for someone if so many people do it. I mean why do something you don't enjoy?


 

Why do you have a job you do not like?

Sometimes you do things you do not enjoy in order to do think you enjoy.

I've never done anything in Eve that wasn't fun. if you find yourself doing something thats sucky then you need to back away from the PC and either re-evaluate your gameplay choice or stop playing.

Eve is still a game bro. We play a game to have a good time. I'm sure you can find a way to make isk that's fun for you.

  User Deleted
2/28/10 12:39:12 PM#48
Originally posted by Varny

Not everything has to be made for you.

^^ this

Eve, like Darkfall, is a PvP-focused game. Take away the forced PvP and the game falls apart. I used to play Eve, but as I get older I like PvP less and less, so I stopped playing the game and found one more in-line with my play-style. I didn't incessantly whine on forums about how the game should change to suit me. I moved on.

The thing that drives me crazy is the number of gamers these days that come into a certain type of game and think that it should conform to their play-style even if the game was designed differently. That's like going into a restaurant, ordering a steak, and then forcing the chef to make it taste like chicken. If you want chicken, then order the damn chicken.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

2/28/10 12:46:07 PM#49
Originally posted by PostLarval
Originally posted by Varny

Not everything has to be made for you.

^^ this

Eve, like Darkfall, is a PvP-focused game. Take away the forced PvP and the game falls apart. I used to play Eve, but as I get older I like PvP less and less, so I stopped playing the game and found one more in-line with my play-style. I didn't incessantly whine on forums about how the game should change to suit me. I moved on.

The thing that drives me crazy is the number of gamers these days that come into a certain type of game and think that it should conform to their play-style even if the game was designed differently. That's like going into a restaurant, ordering a steak, and then forcing the chef to make it taste like chicken. If you want chicken, then order the damn chicken.

 

Great analogy and spot on.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  Komandor

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/09
Posts: 246

11/22/10 7:55:12 AM#50
Originally posted by Rockgod99

Every game has pros and cons.

Eve's cons is its Pve even though damn near the entire playerbase runs missions, rats,plex and wormholes.

It must be fun for someone if so many people do it. I mean why do something you don't enjoy?

EVE's pros outweight the cons dramatically imo.

Keep on rockin'!

  Gdemami

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6382

11/22/10 9:02:21 AM#51


Originally posted by Rockgod99

I've never done anything in Eve that wasn't fun.

The point is that all game play choices require ISK but not all will pay out equally :)

  PattMan3000

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 4

12/21/10 3:32:05 AM#52

I think the flight navigation needs to be refined. Rather than double clicking into random space to guide your ship, how about manually controlled via keyboard/joy stick?

I feel that it would be much more interactive with the user to control his/her ship in that manner and also allow for a enjoyable experience. It would be neat someday to pilot your ship via joy stick and suddenly fall into combat. You set your ship on a orbital course and man the guns (via joystick) and from there, your skills of hand-eye coordination come into play along with the skills you have trained.... I think it would be pretty realistic and also pretty sweet.

  Zeroxin

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 2499

My words are not here to sway you,they are here to make you understand.

12/21/10 3:40:36 AM#53
Originally posted by PattMan3000

I think the flight navigation needs to be refined. Rather than double clicking into random space to guide your ship, how about manually controlled via keyboard/joy stick?

I feel that it would be much more interactive with the user to control his/her ship in that manner and also allow for a enjoyable experience. It would be neat someday to pilot your ship via joy stick and suddenly fall into combat. You set your ship on a orbital course and man the guns (via joystick) and from there, your skills of hand-eye coordination come into play along with the skills you have trained.... I think it would be pretty realistic and also pretty sweet.

I was actually thinking the opposite of that, set your guns to attack and man your orbital trajectory because everyone knows you shouldn't fly in a straight line. But yea, I can see them adding something like that later on down the road without changing the fundamentals of the game.

This is not a game.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4705

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

12/21/10 3:44:16 AM#54

OP is actually not to far on this one.

Although EVE holds major interest for PVP players. A game can not survive on PVP alone.

Without equal quality PVE element (or should i call it simulated world) the game relies to much on players to create quality content. And it just doesnt work.

No wonder CCP is trying for past several years to improve PVE side of the game.

  CactusJack

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 400

Facta, non verba.

12/21/10 4:27:44 AM#55

@ChristopherE-

 I had some of the same problems with the font size. I have 20/20 vision, but i'm getting older so I know what you mean. I changed the font to the largest size and it helped. I would say the font is actually what limits my playtime. I can't play for hours and hours now b/c of eyestrain. It might be a good thing actually.

@OP-Your poll is so vague and ambiguous I don't know where to start. PvE in EvE is limited to small/med/large red boxes, and if you want...you can zoom in and look at the ships. There are many different factions, all with different damage types and resistances. I find the PvE is intelligently designed but underwhelming implemented. I could make that same assessment  about most PvE I have done.

@ all the comments about Economics 101 and why PvP is needed.....if  you aren't playing the game, you should keep your comments to yourself. All items in game are crafted by players therefore if you don't lose ships in PvE(rarely does this happen), what happens to the amount of items in game that are created? I really don't feel the need to go over this, but remember...90% of EvE players live in about 10% of the universe. Reread that sentence. Where do the people that live outside of that area get their goods? They get them from people in their corp/alliance or they fly back to empire and jump/fly it out.

EvE is proactive in addressing the economy in changing loot drops from PvE, and a host of other things. CCP is working on it.

 

@ the person upset about getting their Hulk popped and stating that it was griefing.......and to the next poster that defended him...read the EULA.

Learn what griefing means. If I fly through your area and see you happily mining in your little frigate bothering no one...I have a choice. You may not like it. However, that isn't griefing. What is griefing..is if I station camp you in, and won't let you play the game.  Harrassing you in local, bumping you in an asteroid belt repeatedly, etc, etc.

Getting popped once and them moving on is something that you should be mad at yourself for.

Plan better and bring some friends. EvE isn't made for solo players.

 

Playing: Rust and Battlefield 4
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: The Repopulation

  Elsabolts

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 2597

Life Liberty and the Pursuit of those that would threaten It

12/21/10 4:35:02 AM#56
Originally posted by CactusJack

@ChristopherE-

 I had some of the same problems with the font size. I have 20/20 vision, but i'm getting older so I know what you mean. I changed the font to the largest size and it helped. I would say the font is actually what limits my playtime. I can't play for hours and hours now b/c of eyestrain. It might be a good thing actually.

@OP-Your poll is so vague and ambiguous I don't know where to start. PvE in EvE is limited to small/med/large red boxes, and if you want...you can zoom in and look at the ships. There are many different factions, all with different damage types and resistances. I find the PvE is intelligently designed but underwhelming implemented. I could make that same assessment  about most PvE I have done.

@ all the comments about Economics 101 and why PvP is needed.....if  you aren't playing the game, you should keep your comments to yourself. All items in game are crafted by players therefore if you don't lose ships in PvE(rarely does this happen), what happens to the amount of items in game that are created? I really don't feel the need to go over this, but remember...90% of EvE players live in about 10% of the universe. Reread that sentence. Where do the people that live outside of that area get their goods? They get them from people in their corp/alliance or they fly back to empire and jump/fly it out.

EvE is proactive in addressing the economy in changing loot drops from PvE, and a host of other things. CCP is working on it.

 

@ the person upset about getting their Hulk popped and stating that it was griefing.......and to the next poster that defended him...read the EULA.

Learn what griefing means. If I fly through your area and see you happily mining in your little frigate bothering no one...I have a choice. You may not like it. However, that isn't griefing. What is griefing..is if I station camp you in, and won't let you play the game.  Harrassing you in local, bumping you in an asteroid belt repeatedly, etc, etc.

Getting popped once and them moving on is something that you should be mad at yourself for.

Plan better and bring some friends. EvE isn't made for solo players.

 

 This is why new people leave the game. imo

  CactusJack

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 400

Facta, non verba.

12/21/10 4:56:34 AM#57

@Elsabolts..

 

I think you are stating why new people leave is the misunderstanding that they have for what defines griefing and what the EULA states? I hope that you realize these are the people that EvE doesn't want. I'm doing my very best not to sound elitest, but why would I play a game and not read the EULA? Do you go into a restaruant and complain about what you can't order without reading the menu first?

Your comment isn't without merit, but again if new players get destroyed because they are in losec or doing something they shouldn't do, what do you think should happen? I can only give my example..when I started back in 2006, I wanted to mine some new ore. Corpmates told me to stay out of losec. I didn't listen..guess what happened next?

I was angry, and I felt it was unfair. I mean, why did he attack me? I didn't do anything to him. I didn't even have any guns fitted. So now I was faced with a decision to make...should I ragequit and tell everyone EvE sucks? Should I ask my corpmates why this happened and get laughed at? Should I learn a lesson and pay attention?

Your oversimplified response of "that's why new players leave" makes me think...well...maybe I don't want players that don't listen to senior/elder corpmates. Maybe I don't want players that don't read warning messages about jumping into losec because in their last MMO, you could do whatever you wanted.

I have spent literally hundreds of hours, as most vets have explaining hundreds of different topics with rookies. I like helping new players. I was new once...but I didn't listen. I paid a penalty for it. If I  tell you something, and you don't listen...well..you make your own choices and live with them.

Playing: Rust and Battlefield 4
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: The Repopulation

  Jimmac

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/10
Posts: 1662

12/21/10 7:19:20 AM#58
Originally posted by CactusJack

<>

Your oversimplified response of "that's why new players leave" makes me think...well...maybe I don't want players that don't listen to senior/elder corpmates. Maybe I don't want players that don't read warning messages about jumping into losec because in their last MMO, you could do whatever you wanted.

I have spent literally hundreds of hours, as most vets have explaining hundreds of different topics with rookies. I like helping new players. I was new once...but I didn't listen. I paid a penalty for it. If I  tell you something, and you don't listen...well..you make your own choices and live with them.

As far as I'm concerned, most players new to Eve go through an experience like this. Shit, I'm an older player and I still make mistakes like this. I consider this to be a filter, keeping out the people who can't deal with having to be so responsible and dependent on their own decisions. 

The whole "that's why new players" leave excuse doesn't cut it. Some new players leave because of it. Some don't. The ones that stay, awesome. The ones that leave, I'm glad they're gone, because they are the type of players that can lead to the ruin of such a game. 

  noblot

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/05
Posts: 286

Today is a good day to Pwn someone

12/21/10 7:49:48 AM#59

Well I have been playing over an year, and my PvP can be summed up in three events.

Get lured to loc-sec by someone who I though was a friend - surprize!

Shooting at a can flipper, and discovering that can flipper have other ships - shocked!

Ratting in lo-sec and discover my ship didn't align and warp anywhere nearly as fast as I thought it would - stupidity!

Other than that I have mined, crafted, missioned, and traded; all of which were fun (for me) and didn't require PvP (and I'm a great fan of PvP/RvR of War and DAoC). So it perfectly possible to have fun in Eve without the "cost" of enforced PvP (and also being in a Corp).

Having said that, a good Corp does raise the game to another level (even if you find it hard to find time to join in Corp/Guild events like me).

I would agree that Eve fall short on the interface, and scable fonts; and that keyboard short cuts are really a must (although there is small movement in this area, and a release next year for more shortcuts) - personally I have been using and loving Gamepad like the Logitech G13 and their like for years in MMO, and the only use I have found for them in Eve is enguaging Drones and stopping ships :)

  VikingGamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1187

The strong are sometimes wrong but the weak are never free.

12/23/10 10:52:00 AM#60

I would like to see something a bit more like L2s PvP flagging system in EVE. You can still PvP anywhere anytime but because the penalties are much more immediate and lasting, actual ganking is rather rare.

PvP is essential to EVE and its economy, not random ganking, just like war in the real world has a way of driving the economy that supplies the munitions but don't forget that the only reason WW2 was a great thing for the American economy is because the US didn't get attacked on its soil. We had the only significantly intact economy at the end of the war, everyone else took years to rebuild.

Likewise, EVEs wartime economy depends not only on PvP generating the demand but also on relatively safe areas for supply to be produced, be that tightly controlled null-sec or high sec. Business does not thrive where it is not safe. Business loves war, but only if that war is happening somewhere else.

Safety, however, costs money. Lots of taxes and fees go into keeping the nice parts of town nice. So any region in EVE that developed a more draconian approach to crime in its systems should be a more expensive place to live and do business. Surely these systems would have staggering gate tolls and sales tax. But that is the choice a businessman has to make. But that is fine, it is a sandbox game after all, let people choose their level of risk and reward.

The Law of Conservation of Stupidity:
For every Fan there will be an equally vocal Troll with the opposite opinion.

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