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EVE Online Forum » Jita (General) » Would EvE still be a sandbox without PvP?

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36 posts found
  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

7/09/13 12:49:08 PM#21

Pointless question.

Without PvP Eve would not be Eve and it wouldn't matter if it was sandbox or not.It's like asking if a hotdog without a sausage is still food.

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7432

"Really officer, they're herbs."

7/09/13 3:50:46 PM#22
Originally posted by Drakynn

Pointless question.

Without PvP Eve would not be Eve and it wouldn't matter if it was sandbox or not.It's like asking if a hotdog without a sausage is still food.

That is not the question the OP asked.  He asked if EVE would still be a sandbox without PvP and the answer is unequivocally yes.

  uplink4242

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 229

7/10/13 1:31:27 AM#23
Originally posted by Rusque

Horrible premise. PvP doesn't create sandboxes, nor does it define them.

 

Look at what sandbox games are named after . . . sandboxes. They are titled that way because you get the sand, you get the tools (shovel, bucket, whatever else your parents bought you) and you get to play in the sand doing whatever you want with the tools available.

That's it. That's the whole definition of sandbox. Developers give you the game, they give you the tools and let you interact with the world (the sand) however you see fit within the tools parameters.

PvP is not a tool, nor is it sand. PvP is something gamers like to do - some of them like to do it all the time, some of them like to do it none of the time and lots like to mix'n'match.

The reason EVE would suck without PvP is because it's actually a bad game and has very little sandbox to it. Outside of choosing your skills there really isn't much customization in EVE. You can't make up ships by piecing together whatever parts you want to come up with a unique ship. CCP designs and puts the ships in the game. Yes, you can fiddle with how they function in combat, but there's not much else you can do.

You can't affect the game world either. PvP is only an illusion of changing the game world because it's impacting players and their "control" of any particular system. The world is the sand, the players are not the sand. You can mess with other people all you want, but it has nothing to do with sandbox.

Think of it this way, in WoW if a large group of people were dedicated enough they could "control" an enemy faction zone by killing NPC's and camping the area. It's exactly the same thing. No matter how long they stay there, they have not had an effect on the game world, just on other players. Does WoW become a sandbox if a group of players chooses to do that? No.

If players in EVE could develop systems into something, then yes they are affecting the game world and are engaging in sandbox gameplay. As it stands now, fighting over resources is not related to sandbox game player at all. It's just PvP - it can feel a bit like freedom, but it's really an illusion because if you asked the question the OP asked which is "what happens if you remove the pvp?" and you find out that the game fall flat without it, then you didn't really have a sandbox in the first place.

Does minecraft have pvp? I'm sure there's a mod, but it's pretty much a literal version of a sandbox. You get the sand, you get the tools, you go sandboxing.

If you can mess around with the sand, then you're not playing a sandbox. People are never the sand, they are the players. This is why EVE is the biggest myth of MMO's, it's great fun to speculate about how awesome it is, but it's really not awesome, it's a shallow game that requires encyclopeadic knowledge to participate in. Take away the pvp, all that knowledge is meaningless, the game doesn't stand up on its because there is no game.

. good troll 7/10 would read again

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4653

7/10/13 1:52:13 AM#24
Of course it would be....I don't know if many ppl would still play it if you just removed the pvp and left it as is, but it would still be a sandbox. PvP has nothing to do with the term.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3732

RIP City of Heroes!

7/10/13 2:00:14 AM#25
Yes it would stil be a sandbox.  PVP isn't a factor.
  StarI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 807

7/10/13 2:10:07 AM#26

Nop it wouldn't.

It would turn out to be pretty mediocre and grindy pve game which definitely wouldn't earn the title sandbox.

  keenber

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 437

7/10/13 2:10:40 AM#27

yes it would still be sandbox. And actually i would probly still play today if it wasn't PVP.

PVP was what spoilt my 2 years of work after getting ganked when i accidently warped to a open zone with my new ship which almost cost me everything i had after 2 years of play.

Why would i play a game that allows you to have all your hard work  taken away by a few sick idiots?

  Hulluck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/19/13
Posts: 446

7/10/13 3:55:44 AM#28

If they took pvp away it would destroy one of Eve's strongest sandbox elements.  Not to mention ultimately destroy the economy since there would very little  item destruction.  Which would have a huge impact on everything else that could be considered sandbox elements.  Pvp inside the Eve universe brings meaning to pretty much everything a person does, directly or indirectly.

I'm thinking in terms of  value for any given material. It would still have some sandbox elements if there was no pvp. However without mass item destruction or conflict  as well as the meta game there really wouldn't be a reason to do anything. The economy would be stagnant. Which would kill the industry/economy elements. Removing pvp would also destroy one of it's best sandbox features and that's player choice. Freedom to play how a person wants to play  their character. 

  Hazelle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/11
Posts: 773

7/10/13 3:52:10 PM#29

Picture a sandbox with a bucket of water, a pail and a shovel.

If you took the bucket of water away would it still be a sandbox?

Yes, but there would be a reduction in the things that you could do in the sandbox.

PvP in eve is just another toy in the sandbox.

Edit: The proper defintion of a sandbox game would be a game that allows the user to define his own content within the game.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4653

7/10/13 3:58:22 PM#30
Originally posted by StarI

Nop it wouldn't.

It would turn out to be pretty mediocre and grindy pve game which definitely wouldn't earn the title sandbox.

So a game has to be good before we can call it a sandbox ? What does grindy pve have to do with the question ?

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  User Deleted
7/10/13 4:01:09 PM#31
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by StarI

Nop it wouldn't.

It would turn out to be pretty mediocre and grindy pve game which definitely wouldn't earn the title sandbox.

So a game has to be good before we can call it a sandbox ? What does grindy pve have to do with the question ?

A good game has more tools for the player to interact with both the environment and those around him ergo it is closer to a true sandbox.

 

To answer the OP: Sandbox MMOs are split between PVP and PVE, the PVP one is superior to the PVE one because it allows more interaction with the world and its denizens but the PVE one is still a sandbox so the answer is yes it would still be a sandbox but an inferior one.

  furbans

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 884

7/10/13 4:58:11 PM#32
Originally posted by keenber

yes it would still be sandbox. And actually i would probly still play today if it wasn't PVP.

PVP was what spoilt my 2 years of work after getting ganked when i accidently warped to a open zone with my new ship which almost cost me everything i had after 2 years of play.

Why would i play a game that allows you to have all your hard work  taken away by a few sick idiots?

Then don't undock your ship that you cant lose.  That is one of the most basic rules of EVE.

That's like playing WoW and saying "WTF?!?!? No non-consensual open world PvP with FFA loot?!?!?  Fuck this game!!!!"

EVE is all bout the risk of losing everything, and it's not their fault you were the idiot that invested everything into 1 ship and have it all blown up.

  StarI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 807

7/11/13 2:17:07 AM#33

It would be so different no one here can really imagine how different it would be. You may still want to call it sandbox from todays perspective, knowing what it is today. But no one would ever start calling it sandbox from the get go, provided it released as a pure PvE game. Except maybe people who call PvE themeparks, sandboxes.

EvE's sandbox comes out from pvp, enabled and wraped up in a good ruleset of high-low sec, a world where one of your main thoughts always is how to survive and make it through dangerous teritories alive.

Not to be mistaken tho, a good open PvP ruleset (like in EvE) is only skeleton of a real sandbox. If there's no PvE whatsoever the game is esentially nothing but a hardcore fps/moba with full loot.

A lot of good mechanics with a lot of good PvE mixed in is what makes a sandbox better and better. But take away any PvP interaction and you just made a themepark out of mmorpg.

  Malcanis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3202

"A very special kind of stupidity"

7/11/13 4:15:05 AM#34
Originally posted by keenber

yes it would still be sandbox. And actually i would probly still play today if it wasn't PVP.

PVP was what spoilt my 2 years of work after getting ganked when i accidently warped to a open zone with my new ship which almost cost me everything i had after 2 years of play.

Why would i play a game that allows you to have all your hard work  taken away by a few sick idiots?

Why would I play a game where I can only win, never lose and it doesn't make any difference if I play well or badly?

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Mors.Magne

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1425

7/11/13 11:16:39 AM#35

MineCraft is a true sandbox game.

 

Eve isn't a true sandbox, as people have explained previously.

 

"Sandbox" is a term used by advertising companies - probably because it sounds like a cool word and advertising execs haven't really thought about it that much.

  uplink4242

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 229

7/11/13 12:32:03 PM#36
a sandbox is not a game where building is the only focus. stop taking the term so literally. then again, there will never be a consensual agreement on what sandbox means, so these discussions are often pointless. 
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