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EVE Online Forum » Jita (General) » Revival of the space sim genre - tougher times for EvE incoming?

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63 posts found
  Sozza

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/13
Posts: 4

3/24/13 6:32:15 AM#41

I realy hope ccp get som serios competition they realy need it to get there ass out of ...

Star C look nice..

Daoc 00-12,EvE 03-13,and more ...

  Phaserlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/04
Posts: 702

Do you want to improve the world? I don't think it can be done. -Lao Tzu

4/09/13 8:56:28 PM#42
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ

Plenty of people still use a joystick. I myself have a Saitek X52 Pro that I use for games like FSX, Evochron Mercenary, X3 TC/AP, Galaxy on Fire 2, etc. For many space/flight sims it's the preferred controller method. Though I can see how in EVE it wouldn't be, what with the static combat making it unnecessary to use a joystick, as well as having to navigate through the plethora of menus. A mouse would obviously be the better choice.

What do you think about Evochron Mercenary?  I never heard of it until now.  What I read on their web site sounds interesting.
  I have the same flight stick and haven't used it in a while.  I've been looking for a good flight / space game.

Have you tried Vendetta Online?  It's pretty slow-paced compared to a lot of other games qualifying themselves as MMOs these days (downloading War Thunder as I write this) but it definitely works with joysticks.

"To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
Check it out on Steam

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7432

"Really officer, they're herbs."

4/09/13 9:55:55 PM#43

I think EVE will have a wake up call with Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen(and who knows what else is lurking in the shadows  :)  ) and it will be because of one thing.   CCP refuses to do anything regarding avatar play.   EVE has a loyal player base that insist that avatar play has no place in EVE, they are wrong and have been wrong, and that will be EVE's main failing.   

Top that off with the way progression works in EVE(which is all ready a huge factor when it comes to EVE's poor retention rate).  Then add to that, that EVE is a game of numbers and spreadsheets.    This turns a lot of people off.  Now toss in some of the most boring and repatative game play one can experince in a game and people will flock to anything other than EVE.

EVE's greatest strength right now is - is that it is the only real sci-fi game online with cool graphics and ships, and this is all it really has going for it.

If a sci-fi game comes out that offers deeper game play and challenges, with a good mix of ship and avatar game play - EVE will take a beating.

  Malcanis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3202

"A very special kind of stupidity"

4/10/13 2:57:16 AM#44
Originally posted by Teala

I think EVE will have a wake up call with Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen(and who knows what else is lurking in the shadows  :)  ) and it will be because of one thing.   CCP refuses to do anything regarding avatar play.   EVE has a loyal player base that insist that avatar play has no place in EVE, they are wrong and have been wrong, and that will be EVE's main failing.   

Top that off with the way progression works in EVE(which is all ready a huge factor when it comes to EVE's poor retention rate).  Then add to that, that EVE is a game of numbers and spreadsheets.    This turns a lot of people off.  Now toss in some of the most boring and repatative game play one can experince in a game and people will flock to anything other than EVE.

EVE's greatest strength right now is - is that it is the only real sci-fi game online with cool graphics and ships, and this is all it really has going for it.

If a sci-fi game comes out that offers deeper game play and challenges, with a good mix of ship and avatar game play - EVE will take a beating.

 

What do you think of the idea of spinning Incarna/WiS off as a different game, linked to the EVE universe like DUST is? (Probably rather more closely than DUST)

Do you think a Kickstarter project to get Incarna going might work?

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7432

"Really officer, they're herbs."

4/10/13 2:57:31 PM#45
Originally posted by Malcanis
Originally posted by Teala

I think EVE will have a wake up call with Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen(and who knows what else is lurking in the shadows  :)  ) and it will be because of one thing.   CCP refuses to do anything regarding avatar play.   EVE has a loyal player base that insist that avatar play has no place in EVE, they are wrong and have been wrong, and that will be EVE's main failing.   

Top that off with the way progression works in EVE(which is all ready a huge factor when it comes to EVE's poor retention rate).  Then add to that, that EVE is a game of numbers and spreadsheets.    This turns a lot of people off.  Now toss in some of the most boring and repatative game play one can experince in a game and people will flock to anything other than EVE.

EVE's greatest strength right now is - is that it is the only real sci-fi game online with cool graphics and ships, and this is all it really has going for it.

If a sci-fi game comes out that offers deeper game play and challenges, with a good mix of ship and avatar game play - EVE will take a beating.

 

What do you think of the idea of spinning Incarna/WiS off as a different game, linked to the EVE universe like DUST is? (Probably rather more closely than DUST)

Do you think a Kickstarter project to get Incarna going might work?

Spin Incarna or walking in stations off as another game, separate, yet still part of EVE.    Don't think that would work.   Here is why.   It still means my character from EVE cannot leave her quarters.     CCP has all ready prettty much canned Incarna.    They don't want to piss off the loyal part of the fan base that wants nothing to do with WIS - we saw what happened when they tried.    Unless CCP stops messing  with Dust and WOD and concentrates on making EVE better - all of EVE(including avatar play), Incarna will never see the light of day. 

Kickstart?  A successful game company using kickstart to raise funds?  Hmmm...it would work, maybe, if the people that donate got some cool encentives for doing it.   But as for kickstarting Incarna?  No...not as long as it is separate from the main part of the game EVE.   As I stated, the whole premise of Incarna was so we could walk around stations and do things with our characters, if I cannot do that with my EVE character that all ready exist - kinda defeats the purpose.

Then again, CCP has decided to divert resources and money from EVE, away from EVE for the development of Dust and WOD...so them asking the public to kickstart a project when they all ready have money(they could stop funding WOD and put it into EVE - not going to happen though).   No...don't see that working.   I suppose if you get elected to the CSM(which looks like it is going to happen) you could propose such things - but I really do not think it will work for the reasons I stated.

 

  Malcanis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3202

"A very special kind of stupidity"

4/11/13 3:08:35 AM#46

But you haven't really given any reasons. You've just asserted "not going to happen" several times.

The only specific objection you have is that you wouldn't be able to walk your EVE character through stations. But why does a seperate Incarna game have to be structured that way? After all the character creation engine for Incarna already exists. Your character is already an Incarna character, mechanically speaking. A seperate Incarna game has no technical barrier to Pod Pilot Teala walking through the door. The barrier is purely a commercial/funding one: pod pilots will have to pay to walk through the door.

The objection that "FiS" players have to Incarna is not that it exists, but that it sucked a huge amount of resources up at the expense of other gameplay. Basically, they don't want to extend any more "credit" to the project, but that's not the same as being unwilling to pay for the work once it's done.

If they were presented with an Incarna project that was seperately funded and which they had the option to join, that might be another matter entirely. Assuming the project launched and it was successful, I think you'd see plenty of EVE pilots willing to pay $25 or a couple of PLEX to get out of their pods. I would, for sure.

Finding that "credit" - the development resources for a project that lots of people say they want but that the parent company is unwilling/unable to provide in the normal way - for Incarna is exactly the kind of project that Kickstarter is for.

So given that a normal MMO is, what? $60? And you were offered a chance to kick in that amount in return for a sub, $50 worth of AUR and some "founders pack" gizmos, what then?

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

4/11/13 3:18:35 AM#47

I'm 99% sure that sooner or later they will roll in Dust 514 into the PC EvE client.

 

They have the avatar based gameplay tech and content already. Then expand with social features and walking on your ship, planets and space stations.

 

Add fully customizable ship interiors, actually see you cargo on board, enter other ships with FPS style ship boarding action!

Add small fighters which are twitch based / joystick controlled to the EvE universe!

 

there, the best Sci Fi sandbox simulator ever made

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  kadepsyson

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

4/11/13 3:32:07 AM#48
Originally posted by FromHell

I'm 99% sure that sooner or later they will roll in Dust 514 into the PC EvE client.

 

They have the avatar based gameplay tech and content already. Then expand with social features and walking on your ship, planets and space stations.

 

Add fully customizable ship interiors, actually see you cargo on board, enter other ships with FPS style ship boarding action!

Add small fighters which are twitch based / joystick controlled to the EvE universe!

 

there, the best Sci Fi sandbox simulator ever made

They already mentioned plans for spaceship interiors actually, you should be excited!

 

However, the video was posted April 1st.  So clearly your idea is a joke to them and other EVE players such as myself.

 

The joystick controlled anything in space is also a very very bad idea.

El Psy Congroo

  zimboy69

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/09/08
Posts: 351

4/11/13 4:40:21 AM#49
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by FromHell

I'm 99% sure that sooner or later they will roll in Dust 514 into the PC EvE client.

 

They have the avatar based gameplay tech and content already. Then expand with social features and walking on your ship, planets and space stations.

 

Add fully customizable ship interiors, actually see you cargo on board, enter other ships with FPS style ship boarding action!

Add small fighters which are twitch based / joystick controlled to the EvE universe!

 

there, the best Sci Fi sandbox simulator ever made

They already mentioned plans for spaceship interiors actually, you should be excited!

 

However, the video was posted April 1st.  So clearly your idea is a joke to them and other EVE players such as myself.

 

The joystick controlled anything in space is also a very very bad idea.

its not acctual joystick control we want

its more like instant control  where you can weave  and  dodge missiles and  use terain to hide behind

just like what we see when we watch  starwars ,battlestar galactica

it dosent matter if the control is joystick ,keyboard+mouse or  gamepad  its the instant control we need

 

  Malcanis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3202

"A very special kind of stupidity"

4/11/13 9:15:49 AM#50
Originally posted by zimboy69
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by FromHell

I'm 99% sure that sooner or later they will roll in Dust 514 into the PC EvE client.

 

They have the avatar based gameplay tech and content already. Then expand with social features and walking on your ship, planets and space stations.

 

Add fully customizable ship interiors, actually see you cargo on board, enter other ships with FPS style ship boarding action!

Add small fighters which are twitch based / joystick controlled to the EvE universe!

 

there, the best Sci Fi sandbox simulator ever made

They already mentioned plans for spaceship interiors actually, you should be excited!

 

However, the video was posted April 1st.  So clearly your idea is a joke to them and other EVE players such as myself.

 

The joystick controlled anything in space is also a very very bad idea.

its not acctual joystick control we want

its more like instant control  where you can weave  and  dodge missiles and  use terain to hide behind

just like what we see when we watch  starwars ,battlestar galactica

it dosent matter if the control is joystick ,keyboard+mouse or  gamepad  its the instant control we need

 

 

It's a glorious dream, but doing that would be astoundingly resource-intensive. EVE's TQ server works at 1 "tick" per second, and your client extrapolates in the intermediate movements to give the illusion of smooth play. But in reality, you're sending 1 command set to the server every second, and receiving one update every second (assuming a good connection, no TiDi, etc).

To do what you want would require multiplying that by a factor of 10-20.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Ayulin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

4/14/13 12:06:50 PM#51
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
The people that do play eve are pretty entrenched in it and I doubt any of those titles will compare, at least for a long while.

ooh argh never let your developers get away with that complacency.

I can tell you from experience, the EVE community definitely will make it very clear when they feel the devs need to get back on track.

lol yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

"Complacent" isn't a word I would use to describe the core Eve playerbase.  Some of the more "casual' players, maybe. But those who are fully entrenched in the game, as Mike-McQueen puts it, are very vocal when they feel CCP has strayed off course.

 

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2849

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

4/14/13 12:12:10 PM#52

Most gamers like the 'walk in stations' and all that but eve players typically are an.... 'interesting lot' so to speak. Honestly eve will probably be fine as it is as most players to that game have more 'unique' tastes so having those more advanced features and all that will likely not even phase them as being 'oh we need this' or anything to that nature that people will run to play those other games instead.

 

Besides, competition is good, it promotes doing more. So long as it realizes just who its main player base and focuses on changes to promote them, they should be fine.

  Garkan

Gurista

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 544

Thug, Thief, Killer, Pirate

4/19/13 5:10:13 PM#53

Whatever happens both Chris Roberts and David Braben making space ship games again is really exciting for me, those guys are legends. Its like Gods coming down to Olympus again or something, I owned a Commodore 64 as a kid and then an Amiga. Elite and Elite II: Frontier where one of my most favorite games during those times, I was a sci fi fan from a young age and being able to play a game where you owned a Starship and could roam the galaxy doing whatever you could was amazing. 
 
You could be a Han Solo type and roll around in a rickety rust bucket with a perpetually exploding jump drive, you could be a hardened bounty hunter in a well equipped combat ship or even a wealthy merchant with a massively armed super freighter carrying goods into dangerous regions. There where loads of possibilities. 
 
Wing Commander stood alongside games like the Star Wars: X-wing series with its tactical combat and varied missions. Those games where great, I hope both of them can recapture their previous glory. 
 
Hell even if Frontier was just polished up a bit with modern graphics and a bit of tweaking it would still be a superb game today. 

Currently playing:

EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.

  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1040

4/19/13 5:15:50 PM#54
If you have a good amount of time for gaming and like space sims, nothing compares to Eve.  It is the only game out there where you actually can take control of a large portion of the game, control a market or have an army of 5000 real people do your bidding.  It has real politics and a real market.  None of the new sims even comes close.  When I retire, I am going to go back to playing and take over the entire null sector.   mmmuuuuuuaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh
  User Deleted
4/19/13 5:23:50 PM#55
EVE-Online is moving from a single game universe to a multiple game universe, come summer I have a sick feeling (the good kind) that CCP might do something as massive as Apocrypha in terms of exploration which will deepen the Universe immensely and as someone who's watched Dust 514's development with manifest curiosity I can tell you guys this much: my opinion is that game will not only be an arena style shooter in the vein of the Battlefield-series but also feature cooperative PVE between two games (I have no sources and I am going only by scraps of information I've gathered from videos and written material but we could have in the not so distant future exploration sites in low planetary orbit which finish on the surface thus requiring EVE players to carry, deliver and retrieve Dust 514 teams from the surface of planets as well as lend orbital support or possibly even boarding actions on still active ancient derelicts to either disable their defenses or retrieve information from within).
  Malcanis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3202

"A very special kind of stupidity"

4/20/13 1:34:29 AM#56

I think Dihoru is absolutely correct: that CCP intend that the future of the EVE universe is a constellation of different games on various platforms all revolving around the core spaceships PC game. Evidence for this is CCP Unifex aka Jon Lander leaving the Executive Producer role to lead CCP's "mobile platform strategy". What else would that mean but to start developing apps and games that link to the EVE universe for mobile phones and tablets?

Imagine EVE a few years from now where there is a console FPS, a Planetary Interaction tablet game, an iphone/android app for updating your market orders, and a B2P avatar PC game set in the stations, all dynamically interacting in real time with the core EVE game. CCP can add new types of gameplay experience to the EVE constellation without compromising the core game.

EDIT: And that diversity of experience and platform is something that new games like Star Citizen and so on will find very very hard to "kill". Giving the EVE universe not just one but multiple avenues of growth. And every one of those "constellation" games will function as a very effective recruiter for EVE itself.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  bugmeno

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/12
Posts: 87

4/20/13 3:28:56 AM#57

EvE is really cool but if there is a similiar space sim with more avatar gameplay I would hope to get it too in EvE

Please work on the walking in stations/ships feature CCP you know you need to do it sooner or later

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3274

4/20/13 4:19:49 AM#58
I think eve's strength may be its undoing, the majority of games have pve at its core , whereas eve is ofc a magnificent pve game with pvp-but as a 2nd class citizen. So when a great pve space sim comes along all those player sick of the 'carebear' and kill a hulk events will leave, plus you will fail to get new blood joining that are looking for pve without the gate camping crap etc.  CCP are smart though so they may well react accordingly.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5430

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

4/20/13 4:29:41 AM#59
Originally posted by Ukiah

 

So no, I don't think is in any danger of having competition any time soon.

competition can be dangerous, but its a lot better than being the only fart in the wind. Competition brings improvement, changes, possible innovation, etc. to try and stay on top.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4810

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

4/20/13 4:47:14 AM#60

EvE could have been great.

But it got too focused on PVP , and slowly neglected world simulation element.

 

This is why its only suited for PVP minded players.

 

Both Elite and (to lesser extent) Star Citisen , will cater both to pvp players and more peacefull - looking to enjoy trading and crafting.

Plus they will both have vastly superior gameplay -

So yes , EVE will still have seniority , but it will be very challenged.

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