Originally posted by Nicoli

Originally posted by CyclopsSlayer

Heavy Missiles are losing ~25% of both Range and Damage. iirc it is down from 72km to 58km base.

Missile launchers will now be affected by Targeting Disruptors for a further range reduction.

The ship bonuses are getting 'adjusted', but I don't have the specifics to hand.

 

All-in-all, the premeire missile boats are getting hit like a steel toed boot to the teeth, just before being shoved off a building into a dumpster of broken glass.

It was fairly obvious they were too strong, but I feel the nerfing may be a bit too hard. With what I see coming I wouldn't even dream of a L4 running Drake without using HAMs or something, HML's no longer make the cut. YMMV

Most of that is not happening anymore or at least reduced. I would suggest checking out this thread for the current changes https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread

Ahh! Sorry for the bad info then. 

Simmer down. HMLs are getting a 10% damage nerf and a (I think) 20% range nerf. HML Tengus will still be pretty good, especially as T2 Fury will be getting an explosion velocity boost which will mitigate the base damage nerf. If you had good missile skills already, you'll probably not notice much difference.

More to the point, HAMs will be getting a massive buff (along with torps and rockets), because Guided Missile Precision skill will now work with short range missiles, as will Rigor rigs, as will precision implants. This means that they'll do full damage to almost everything above frigate size. You'll have to fly your Tengu more actively to get within range instead of just drop can, orbit, but you'll be doing Machariel-class DPS.

Fun fact: you can make up a HAM tengu that gets 998 DPS with Scourge Rage

I'm looking at a 980DPS Tengu with 6 HAM launchers, 4 CN BCUs, T2 Rigor rig, T2 Flare rig, T2 Hydraulic Thruster rig that's getting 36Km range with standard HAMs, 54Km with Javs, does almost 800m/s with an afterburner and has the same tank as my old HML Tengu.

If that's not OP enough for you I don't know what to say to you. Saying that "missile skills will be useless" is far from the truth. Tengus will be better PvE boats than ever before, providing you're willing to actually fly them.

Originally posted by Banquetto

 

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Originally posted by Teala
Team Avatar doesn't exist anymore. As per the thread linked earlier our prototype has been shelved for the time being. Please read both my post and the one from CCP Unifex for the full picture on what's happening with WIS development at the moment. The team members are off working on a whole bunch of stuff from the launcher, through to new game features.

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Fantastic news, the whole Team Avatar thing was a colossal waste of development resources, which added nothing to EVE and showed no potential of ever doing so.

Put 'em all to work on Flying In Space, not Walking In Stations.

If they can finally bring some physics to FIS I'm all for it. Start with not being able to fly and shoot through other ships and structures and work from there.

If not, they might just as well continue developing WIS to attract a different crowd to EVE.

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Originally posted by Hekket
Pretty much yeah.

I don't give a damn if they're OP or not, I invested a crap ton of SP, ISK and Real life money into getting them and fitting them and if you think for a second that I'm just gonna be all like "Okay CCP! Sounds good! I can't wait for you to nerf the ever living f*** out my stuff!" then you are out of your freaking mind. No. You are legally insane.

You know what. I wouldn't be all that mad if they would at the very least give me a refund on my skill points. But I think we all know that ain't happenin'

Not that I ever showed up with my bat and ball in the first place anyway. I always was the homely type.

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Be lucky you did not invest in blasters pre-2008. 4 years and they are still shit...

It is the same as with any other game, things are getting boosted and nerfed and your invested time and resource may turn vain in a single patch.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Hekket
Pretty much yeah.

 

I don't give a damn if they're OP or not, I invested a crap ton of SP, ISK and Real life money into getting them and fitting them and if you think for a second that I'm just gonna be all like "Okay CCP! Sounds good! I can't wait for you to nerf the ever living f*** out my stuff!" then you are out of your freaking mind. No. You are legally insane.

You know what. I wouldn't be all that mad if they would at the very least give me a refund on my skill points. But I think we all know that ain't happenin'

Not that I ever showed up with my bat and ball in the first place anyway. I always was the homely type.

 

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Be lucky you did not invest in blasters pre-2008. 4 years and they are still shit...

It is the same as with any other game, things are getting boosted and nerfed and your invested time and resource may turn vain in a single patch.

F2p will one day come " GrassHopper " along with Item shops. It has been written.

WIS was too much for CCP.

Maybe if they had Blizzard resources WIS could be a full fledged addition tot he game.

Fully interaction stations, missions, mini-games, social hubs, personal shops and more.

However they can't do that and I would rather they scrap the idea than limp along taking 10 years to release whats basically meaningless Avatars walking down a hallway.

Originally posted by Elsabolts

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Hekket
Pretty much yeah.

 

I don't give a damn if they're OP or not, I invested a crap ton of SP, ISK and Real life money into getting them and fitting them and if you think for a second that I'm just gonna be all like "Okay CCP! Sounds good! I can't wait for you to nerf the ever living f*** out my stuff!" then you are out of your freaking mind. No. You are legally insane.

You know what. I wouldn't be all that mad if they would at the very least give me a refund on my skill points. But I think we all know that ain't happenin'

Not that I ever showed up with my bat and ball in the first place anyway. I always was the homely type.

 

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Be lucky you did not invest in blasters pre-2008. 4 years and they are still shit...

It is the same as with any other game, things are getting boosted and nerfed and your invested time and resource may turn vain in a single patch.

F2p will one day come " GrassHopper " along with Item shops. It has been written.

Keep on dreaming

Originally posted by free2play

Missile skills are like gunery. You can't say they are wasted because HML are getting a swat with the nerf bat. It's like saying my gunnery are junk because they nerfed medium rails.

That said, HML is getting a punch in the nose. Drake won't survive as a null fleet doctrine any more. It was a High Sec favorite for the exclusive passive tank and capless dps. That won't change. Tengu can always switch out to rails subsytem and will manage to be usefull. it was the Null bear favorite for the sig rad and it was a bitch to scan down.

The only thing I am a bit annoyed about is the tracking enhancers won't influence missiles and I don't think it's a delay. I've seen them do this many times before. I don't expect they ever will and that was a god send to cruise and torp Raven users from old days.

Drakes aren't really a viable nullsec fleet doctrine any more anyway. Virtually everyone has stopped using DrakeArmy since the tier 3 battlecruisers were introduced, because Drakes that get inside Scorch L range are doomed. Nagas can easily operate outside that range and also do more damage.

Drake Army rose to prominence because back in 2010, server lag was a far bigger problem than it is now, and that meant that the disadvantages of missiles were minimised. When there's no lag, it is much easier to just warp off when you see 100 drakes yellow-box you... Now that we have TiDi and Team Gridlock's stirling work on lag reduction, the big advantages of Drakefleets are gone.

It's worth noting that the Hurricane is also getting a nerf, a more direct one in this case. The Myrm and the Harb are getting buffed.

In short: that's EVE. CCP rebalance ships or mods that get too popular (or are unused) in order to maintain diversity. As soon as something starts to be "mandatory" then its days as King of The Hill are numbered. It's a never-ending process, because conditions change, the metagame develops, new doctrines arise. And in the end, that's a good thing. A "perfectly" balanced, eternally static EVE would be dull as hell.

If anyone's :sadface: about their HML tengu, then they should start training Assault Missiles now. They should be halfway to level 5 by the time the server comes up.

Originally posted by Z3R01

WIS was too much for CCP.

Maybe if they had Blizzard resources WIS could be a full fledged addition tot he game.

Fully interaction stations, missions, mini-games, social hubs, personal shops and more.

However they can't do that and I would rather they scrap the idea than limp along taking 10 years to release whats basically meaningless Avatars walking down a hallway.

Nah they could've done it, but the playerbase threw a hissy fit with lots of screaming, crying, and pounding of fists because, "We want our spaceship game! Screw anything innovative or interesting which could potentially attract more players! Screw your vision of making this more than a point-and-click adventure game in space CCP! WAAAAHHHHH!!!".

Sadly instead of telling these babies to go play in traffic (and rightfully so), CCP caved. And the game stagnates. Thanks, EVE vets!

Originally posted by Hekket

You know what. I wouldn't be all that mad if they would at the very least give me a refund on my skill points. But I think we all know that ain't happenin'

That's right, it won't happen because you can STILL use heavy missiles. It's just that they're balanced now. And before you ask, yes, I have those skills maxed aswell. HTFU

Originally posted by free2play

Originally posted by NightBandit

I'm not sure what to think any more they just seem to be trying to fix things but not if you know what i mean. Still have to wait and see how it pans out.

Bandit

EVE is losing ground. You can feel it. You know the game you play, you sense something different. This isn't the same old, same old EVE is dieing again. It's on the decline. CCP want to stop the bleeding, rightly so but they need more than just bells, whistles and smoke and mirrors.

Set aside the missile foolishness, look at all the other stuff in retribution and its a big patch. It's not an expansion though. It's a patch. They need an expansion. Something bigger than Sov for null to build, something for HS to build. There is no motivation in the game right now. All you do is grind ISK and burn it off, repeat and rinse. update skill queue.

Yea, this game needs a new Apocrypha. More Wormholes, more exploration, more reasons to go pew pew on NPCs AND other players.

I'd suggest they start making stable-forever wormholes that appear in different areas of the world which null sec alliances can fight over or even small squads can hold control over. It would definitely bring something new for people to do.

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Yea, this game needs a new Apocrypha. More Wormholes, more exploration, more reasons to go pew pew on NPCs AND other players.

I'd suggest they start making stable-forever wormholes that appear in different areas of the world which null sec alliances can fight over or even small squads can hold control over. It would definitely bring something new for people to do.

They tried to bring more content in Incarna, but they could not pull it through and it backfired royally. Now they are afraid of investing into anything major for their game and just tweaking existing systems (plus their resources have probably been very much tied with DUST).

Which might of course be a wise decision, since there is a lot of tweaking to do. Unfortunately no amount of tweaking will increase EVE's playerbase considerably. It needs something new and by new I mean something like Incarna new, something that is completely different from the current content, not just the same ratting wrapped in a different paper.

In any case, Retribution brings many great tweaks and small changes to existing systems, but it doesn't really bring anything new. I agree that calling it an expansion is a longshot.

Originally posted by Exavus
So Should I be happy I picked Amarr ships?

If you can find the win sauce in Amarr, you can find the win sauce in EVE. Amarr is all about fleets and fleet mates. They are the gank and tank race of EVE.

Originally posted by Yizle
Well I am glad that I let my sub finally lapsed since I am Caldari and liked my missile boats for mission running. Drake was always my favorite boat.

How many damb times?! Short range missiles are getting a massive buff. Now they're actually viable, so you don't have to use low DPS long range weapons, you can have some fun actually flying your ship.

980 DPS HAM Tengu. Do it!

1300 DPS Torp CNR. RAWR! (This will cost you some serious ISK to do right though.... but still. 1300 DPS.)

Jesus man, have you seen what they're going to do with the Caracal!? 4 low slots, ffs. And Light missiles are getting a 10% damage buff, plus an explosion velocity buff. If you fly a frigate anywhere near a new Caracal fitted with Rapid Light Missile Launchers (or whatever they're called nowadays), you're gonna have a bad time.

Even a Rifter :p

Incidentally, there will be 4 new destroyers and the Caldari one will be a missile boat.

The tl;dr is: Retribution is an overall massive win for missile lovers. Just put the HMLs down, I know they were the only missiles worth using for a long, long time but now you can walk in sunlight.

Originally posted by CyclopsSlayer

Heavy Missiles are losing ~25% of both Range and Damage. iirc it is down from 72km to 58km base.

Missile launchers will now be affected by Targeting Disruptors for a further range reduction.

The ship bonuses are getting 'adjusted', but I don't have the specifics to hand.

 

All-in-all, the premeire missile boats are getting hit like a steel toed boot to the teeth, just before being shoved off a building into a dumpster of broken glass.

It was fairly obvious they were too strong, but I feel the nerfing may be a bit too hard. With what I see coming I wouldn't even dream of a L4 running Drake without using HAMs or something, HML's no longer make the cut. YMMV

So, you could say, EvE's devs are wearing doc martins.

Originally posted by Acidon

Originally posted by CyclopsSlayer

Heavy Missiles are losing ~25% of both Range and Damage. iirc it is down from 72km to 58km base.

Missile launchers will now be affected by Targeting Disruptors for a further range reduction.

The ship bonuses are getting 'adjusted', but I don't have the specifics to hand.

 

All-in-all, the premeire missile boats are getting hit like a steel toed boot to the teeth, just before being shoved off a building into a dumpster of broken glass.

It was fairly obvious they were too strong, but I feel the nerfing may be a bit too hard. With what I see coming I wouldn't even dream of a L4 running Drake without using HAMs or something, HML's no longer make the cut. YMMV

So, you could say, EvE's devs are wearing doc martins.

I actually found a pair of doc martins in my closet recently caked with dust on them from almost 12 years ago....

HMLs just got balanced, not the end of the world. Also other missiles where massively buffed.

Also T2 missiles are now viable since they have no drawbacks anymore, and t2 missiles got a damage buff aswell. Overall its a massive buff to missile ships, and caldari specifically. Caldari has been rising lately and getting a ton of very awesome ships in the last years or so, they are a far cry away from the "lol don't train caladri if you want to pvp" they once where.

The new moa also looks delicious, not to mention they are planning something for the ferox aswell. That being said, the tengu wasn't THAT good at running missions anyway ever since they allowed MWDs again. Both my Nightmare and my Macharial outperformed my tengu so much it wasn't even funny, and now with salavge drones ... why would you even want to fly a droneless ship for missions?

Actually NOW with hams buffed as much, flying a tengu actually makes MORE sense since you can close range very fast anyway, still have a decent range and do actually noteworthy dps. That being said i find picking the right ship for missions harder than ever, which imho is a sign that overall balance is pretty good.

P.S.: Good riddance on WiS. That was a thinly veiled abomination masquerading as introducing a new gameplay, being in truth based almost solely around cash shop dependancy. Also it detracted a ludicrous amount of resources away from the actual game, you know spaceships and stuff. Go play second life for now, im sure they will have shirts with spaceships on them, likely for less than actual RL shirts with spaceships on them even unlike WiS.