My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve.  After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.

I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.

Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous.  When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

I've tried this game at least six different times and failed to get sucked in, but it's not the game's fault.  My biggest hangup has always been that my character is essentially a ship.  If I was able to walk around inside my ships, get out of them and explore on foot and do other things like that, I'd be playing.  Essentially, I prefer the ships were a vehicle and combat tool, rather than the whole experience.

This is how I feel. No disrespect for EVE as a game, but I dont even want to try it because "I'm a ship" - I'd love to see a similar game that has 50% on foot and 50% as ship. I know it's a good game even without trying, just not something for me because of the reason I gave, I just want to be a person first, in the mmorpgs I play, and something else second (ship, town, tank, etc).

Originally posted by Creslin321

My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve.  After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.

I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.

Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous.  When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.

Takes around a month to get your feet wet in pvp (Factional Warfare is great for this: mainly cheap, expendable ship gangs) and do level 3 missions for some initial steady income in my experience.

After half a year I started roaming around in Wormholes blowing up people with much older chars, exploring in lowsec, demanding ransoms, suicide ganking, baiting pirates, blowing up POSses, doing regular wardecs and infiltrating the target corps with an alt account ... also running away from mercenary corps a lot :)

The initial cash I needed for that was made doing mainly level 4 missions. But after some more months the small time piracy and misschief started to pay for itself and I could focus on what was fun.

It does take some time and being in a corp, even if its a small one, helps A LOT. But the time it takes to become efficient and competitive in T1 frigs and battlecruisers and semi-efficient in battleships is very manageable. Also you can of course buy an older character from the bazaar.

In my impression the whole "I'll never be able to compete" idea is kind of a myth. It DOES take some months though, but the scope of the game and your options really grows along with you.

Originally posted by Creslin321

My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve.  After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.

I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.

Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous.  When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.

this combined with the full loot pvp without besically no safe zones is why DF is in the state it's in.

the only reason EvE managed to get those 30/40 thousand subscribers is because it has a huge high safety zone, where people can play without getting constantly harrased by those more powerfull.

hopefully DF 2.0 (if it ever comes out) will address those 2 issues.

1. Learn controls.

2. Join a corporation.

3. Listen to EVE Radio, talk trivia in channels.

4. Do some missions, do a little combat, chill in station.

5. Spend hours watching rocks being mined by lasers.

YOU CAN DO IT!

For me the reason i've never been able to get into EVE (I have tried twice now) is that i guess i cant stand my avatar being a ship, well i know you're a person but you are flying a ship...at least for the most part haha, but anyways, I can understand why many people could love that just for me I guess I like to make up my own story for my character and backround to really get into the game. While yes you can do that for the character that is controlling your ship (and it might be an awesome backround story and all!) i just cant get into it still..I mean i played darkfall and while it has no safe zone I had much more fun i guess. 

op scanning ith 3 probes is ... very difficult. scan with 5, its trivial.

you have to be ultra-pro to scan with 3. there's no reason to. use 5.

Power curve?

The average EVE player only lasts for 6 months.

Play for 7 and you're already ahead of the curve.

this game................

Originally posted by Mackeh

 

I now know why this game does not have millions of subscribers, the learning curve is far too steep for many (not all) of us casuals.

Correct EVE is not for casual players. EVE is for those who wish to crush their enemies,  drive them to poverty and hear the lamentations of their women(slight change from the original).  Also, mostly they want your tears(in game usage applies).

Originally posted by ElderRat

Originally posted by Mackeh

 

I now know why this game does not have millions of subscribers, the learning curve is far too steep for many (not all) of us casuals.

Correct EVE is not for casual players. EVE is for those who wish to crush their enemies,  drive them to poverty and hear the lamentations of their women(slight change from the original).  Also, mostly they want your tears(in game usage applies).

Spend massive amount of time* Join large corperations who can let you remotely live* Win by having more Money*.

If you played for some time, chances are your going to be at top and stay at top. A 'sandbox esque' experience at its... um... finest. You stand no chance unless you get brought in by a big corperation or hit lucky break upon lucky break... or just manage to scam suckers somehow into buying into your little pansy scheme.

Money > Skill in terms of combat, simply put combat there is no skill what so ever behind it, just the goods your ship has. Thats not to say there is no strategy in doing an attack, just after its started its just 'whoever has the best goods wins'. nuff said.

I would rather have a root canal with no anesthesia than play EVE.(does that give you an idea of how frustrating and poorly done  the tutorial is ?)

Thats exactly the message I sent to the company upon leaving.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Creslin321

My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve.  After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.

I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.

Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous.  When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.

Takes around a month to get your feet wet in pvp (Factional Warfare is great for this: mainly cheap, expendable ship gangs) and do level 3 missions for some initial steady income in my experience.

After half a year I started roaming around in Wormholes blowing up people with much older chars, exploring in lowsec, demanding ransoms, suicide ganking, baiting pirates, blowing up POSses, doing regular wardecs and infiltrating the target corps with an alt account ... also running away from mercenary corps a lot :)

The initial cash I needed for that was made doing mainly level 4 missions. But after some more months the small time piracy and misschief started to pay for itself and I could focus on what was fun.

It does take some time and being in a corp, even if its a small one, helps A LOT. But the time it takes to become efficient and competitive in T1 frigs and battlecruisers and semi-efficient in battleships is very manageable. Also you can of course buy an older character from the bazaar.

In my impression the whole "I'll never be able to compete" idea is kind of a myth. It DOES take some months though, but the scope of the game and your options really grows along with you.

Well considering my normal lifespan in an MMORPG is about 2 months...it's a bit too much for me :).  I played Darkfall for a while, but I hated the idea that I needed to just grind for literally months to even try to do any PvP.

I love the idea of sandboxes, but I would like one that doesn't encourage this whole wolves (old players) preying on sheep (new players) idea.

Originally posted by Purutzil

Originally posted by ElderRat

Originally posted by Mackeh

 

I now know why this game does not have millions of subscribers, the learning curve is far too steep for many (not all) of us casuals.

Correct EVE is not for casual players. EVE is for those who wish to crush their enemies,  drive them to poverty and hear the lamentations of their women(slight change from the original).  Also, mostly they want your tears(in game usage applies).

Spend massive amount of time* Join large corperations who can let you remotely live* Win by having more Money*.

 

If you played for some time, chances are your going to be at top and stay at top. A 'sandbox esque' experience at its... um... finest. You stand no chance unless you get brought in by a big corperation or hit lucky break upon lucky break... or just manage to scam suckers somehow into buying into your little pansy scheme.

 

Money > Skill in terms of combat, simply put combat there is no skill what so ever behind it, just the goods your ship has. Thats not to say there is no strategy in doing an attack, just after its started its just 'whoever has the best goods wins'. nuff said.

Ahh...

Well I can tell you that I have played Eve for a long time and I disagree with basically everything you said.  There is a lot of 'skill' involved in pvp.  It's not always who has the most money wins.  Knowing how to pilot a ship (it's optimals, speed, etc), it's strengths and weaknesses, the equipment you are using, the type of ammo to use, understanding the mechanics of how pvp and aggro works....While none of that is necessarily skill, it's a lot more than just money.   In the case of big fights, yeah a lot of the time whoever brings the most wins, but that is no different than pretty much every other game ever made.  The zerg wins.  You can however beat the zerg with excellent tactics and solid FCs.

What does take skill is being a leader, an FC.  Not everyone is cut out for that. 

As far as catching up to vets, no, you will never have the amount of skill points they have.  That doesn't mean you can't fly what they fly, after some time.  Being a vet just means you have more options, whereas a newer character should specialize in something they like at frist.  If you specialize you will be caught up to a vet in no time.  It's not like a vet can fly 10 ships at the same time. 

Originally posted by Boatsmate

I have never played Eve,but I have had lots of friends that do and have read about it for years. From what I can tell it is a thinking mans game and an acquired taste. Like Cognac and foreign movies.  The gamers that play it are fiercely loyal to it, at least they used to be,and some friends of mine wouldn't even play other games if they couldn't play that. It almost has a cult following. I think if may be the "Chess" of MMO's.

"Like Cognac and foreign movies."

Oh man, those damn interwebz.

meh, i have gotten into the habit of not getting into games that are well established. Especially ones with retarded drama, takes the fun out of it. I don't like learning curves that look like this either:

Eve being the black ofcourse:

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Creslin321

My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve.  After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.

I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.

Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous.  When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.

Takes around a month to get your feet wet in pvp (Factional Warfare is great for this: mainly cheap, expendable ship gangs) and do level 3 missions for some initial steady income in my experience.

After half a year I started roaming around in Wormholes blowing up people with much older chars, exploring in lowsec, demanding ransoms, suicide ganking, baiting pirates, blowing up POSses, doing regular wardecs and infiltrating the target corps with an alt account ... also running away from mercenary corps a lot :)

The initial cash I needed for that was made doing mainly level 4 missions. But after some more months the small time piracy and misschief started to pay for itself and I could focus on what was fun.

It does take some time and being in a corp, even if its a small one, helps A LOT. But the time it takes to become efficient and competitive in T1 frigs and battlecruisers and semi-efficient in battleships is very manageable. Also you can of course buy an older character from the bazaar.

In my impression the whole "I'll never be able to compete" idea is kind of a myth. It DOES take some months though, but the scope of the game and your options really grows along with you.

It is not a myth. There is a huge difference between someone who has billions of ISK and 100 million skillpoints compared to someone who has millions of ISK and only 5 million skillpoints. HUGE!

That does not mean that the latter one cannot do stuff but to believe that they are on equal footing is just delusional.

Originally posted by Jakdstripper

Originally posted by Creslin321

My problem with Eve (and Darkfall) wasn't the learning curve, it was the power curve.  After playing Eve for like two days, it became abundantly clear to me that I would never in a thousand years be able to even think about competing with most of the player base that has been there for a long time and has accumulated insane amounts of wealth and skill.

I would always be some stupid pleb miner or errand boy for some corp and well, that gameplay just doesn't appeal to me.

Don't get me wrong, I love progression in games, but at a certain point it gets ridiculous.  When you can just keep getting more powerful and more powerful over years and years of playing a game, it becomes literally impossible for a new person to catch up.

this combined with the full loot pvp without besically no safe zones is why DF is in the state it's in.

the only reason EvE managed to get those 30/40 thousand subscribers is because it has a huge high safety zone, where people can play without getting constantly harrased by those more powerfull.

 

hopefully DF 2.0 (if it ever comes out) will address those 2 issues.

True. If Eve was all low and null sec then it would not have 1/10 of the subscriber base it currently has. Gotta love the irony in that...

When i started EVE online i was working nightshift security where i was so bored i needed something to do. So I leanred every aspect of EVE online without even playing it. Then when i started to play it...it was easy.

So yeah I would not be playign EVE today if it wasnt for my night shift job

Originally posted by Fuggly

meh, i have gotten into the habit of not getting into games that are well established. Especially ones with retarded drama, takes the fun out of it. I don't like learning curves that look like this either:

 

Eve being the black ofcourse:

That image is so funny, because it is SO TRUE!