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EVE Online Forum » Jita (General) » If a new server was created...

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94 posts found
  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/08/12 4:46:12 PM#61
Originally posted by firefly2003
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by Toxia
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by Toxia

Why would opening another server hurt anybody on another server? I tried the trial awhile back, and thought it was a good game, but everyone is already entrenched, corporations are done already, etc. Much like the OP said, it just seemed like i was walking into something that i could never rise to become part of.

I for one would give it a go if a new server opened for new players.

 

Can someone elaborate on why it would hurt the game just to open a new server? Does one server affect another?

Espescially with Dust coming up, i feel like alot of people will want to see the other side of the setup, in EvE, but that they will hit the same wall.

This thread has been done to death on the EVE Forums, fyi there is another server, the Chinese one, and the only reason that one exists is because the Chinese government doesn't want its citizens to interact in a virtual world with citizens of other (read Western) nations.

Thats all fine and good, nothing to do with my question though...

The whole point of EVE (Everyone vs Everyone) is the idea of a single shard, that everyone lives in and tries to succeed in, you give people two shards to choose from and its not really "Everyone" anymore. If you do something really epic on Server A and become EVE-famous, you might not be on Server B.

Again, how does having two servers affect each other? So what if i'm only known by 50% or less of the playerbase? How does that affect the game, exactly??

EVE is about people being able to affect the world, you make two worlds and you create bubbles for people to live in, CCP doesn't want that, it wasn't their original "idea" behind EVE.

I'm absolutely POSITIVE CCP wants money more than an idea. if it brings new players(RE:new money) into the game, they'd be crazy not to do it.

They want to make a single world where if you do something epic you can be felt. Why have 2 servers where two different guilds are dominant when you can throw them both on one and let them have at each other.

The point is that the guilds they HAVE are so entrenched there is no way to get them out. So for new players with the idea of say, making their own corporation, it is nearly undoable.

My question still stands i'm afraid....Why does opening a new server harm the other server? Why not let a new 350k get their start on the game like the last did?

Sorry, i only played the trial, and not for long, so i don't really know what the effects would be. If a new server opened, are you guys worried people would leave in masse for a new server killing the old one? Please, im trying to understand.

All i see from the responses are 'IF they open a new server, my epeen wont show as much, half as many people would see it'

You obviously only played the trial, having the population segregated would make the game feel completely different, yes the game (at least the most hardcore and dedicated part of it) does heavily revolve around epeen have having your epeen felt. Its one of the few games that do that. If CCP wanted to become a bloated monster like WoW they would have split the game and made it more PvE friendly, they have not. They still covet having that 'unique one universe' perhaps that is their epeen and they want to hold on to it. Because so far they have been resisting this trend toward crowd pleasing and sticking to their core principles about what their MMO should be about, this is why I've been playing loyally for the past 2 years and this is why many core players like me stay for the long run.

I started in 2010 with many 'vets' having years and years on me and I'm doing quite well. Why should we try to make it more accessible for people who come from games that are on easy mode and reward people for logging in, just because you can't harden the fuck up (tm CCP) doesnt mean the game should be made to accommodate you.

The point is that the guilds they HAVE are so entrenched there is no way to get them out. So for new players with the idea of say, making their own corporation, it is nearly undoable.

Why should they "get out"? If they have the organization and skill to stay alive for years that is something to be applauded, why should effort and success be seen as a negative? Because the new guy has a harder time? Shit lets knock down APPLE and FACEBOOK because new guys might have a hard time with them around. This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept? Everything has to be easy and handed to you?

Applause......:D

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Calfis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/15/11
Posts: 350

3/08/12 5:00:57 PM#62
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

  xr00t3dx

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/11
Posts: 282

3/08/12 5:04:04 PM#63
Originally posted by daveospice

How many of you would come back?

I couldn't ever get into this game because everyone I knew was already so rich and had everything they'd ever need. 

I'd play it if a new server opened up though!

You don't even understand the most basic idea of this game if that's why you could'nt get into this game. I for one knowing what I do now and glad you couldn't.

 

  AdamTM

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 1395

I'M PUNCHING YOUR SALAD!!!!

3/08/12 5:08:50 PM#64
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

Well he wont be equal (because of all that what you wrote), thats the whole point, he will just have the same amount skillpoints as you.

Whats there to object to?

  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/08/12 5:09:24 PM#65
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

That's perfectly valid view and I do understand the vets feeling on that.  Your view above is an honest view.  Way more honest than the vets that say "SP don't matter"

If more vets described the reality like this to potential noobies I wouldn't have a problem with it...

On your final point though purchasing a character is already allowed and in fact supported by CCP.  The catch is you can only purchase them by giving an EVE veteran your money basically.  My approach of starting with a normal noob character but actually rewarding your grinding of ISK by allowing SP purchase is much more natural, although it cuts out the veterans from cashing in on their characters a bit...

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Kuro1n

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 778

3/08/12 5:14:41 PM#66
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

That's perfectly valid view and I do understand the vets feeling on that.  Your view above is an honest view.  Way more honest than the vets that say "SP don't matter"

If more vets described the reality like this to potential noobies I wouldn't have a problem with it...

On your final point though purchasing a character is already allowed and in fact supported by CCP.  The catch is you can only purchase them by giving an EVE veteran your money basically...

Yes you give a EVE vet your money or ISK rather, what is the problem with that? He spent time improving his character while you just wanted in fast and payed him money for his character. Is there an issue?

  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/08/12 5:16:39 PM#67
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

That's perfectly valid view and I do understand the vets feeling on that.  Your view above is an honest view.  Way more honest than the vets that say "SP don't matter"

If more vets described the reality like this to potential noobies I wouldn't have a problem with it...

On your final point though purchasing a character is already allowed and in fact supported by CCP.  The catch is you can only purchase them by giving an EVE veteran your money basically...

Yes you give a EVE vet your money or ISK rather, what is the problem with that? He spent time improving his character while you just wanted in fast and payed him money for his character. Is there an issue?

Yeah the issue is you are buying a possibly 100 million SP character right off the bat and didn't earn it in any way either.  My idea allows a player to actually work (i.e. grind) his way to earning ISK in order to speed his SP accrual.  It would give noobs the feeling that they don't have to simply wait for the clock to tick but can actually EARN their SP.

I don't know why vets are so fearful of this.  It would allow a hard working young whipper snapper to actually pass (in terms of skill points) some people who work less and onlly wait for their SP to accrue.

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19400

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/08/12 5:31:02 PM#68
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

That's perfectly valid view and I do understand the vets feeling on that.  Your view above is an honest view.  Way more honest than the vets that say "SP don't matter"

If more vets described the reality like this to potential noobies I wouldn't have a problem with it...

On your final point though purchasing a character is already allowed and in fact supported by CCP.  The catch is you can only purchase them by giving an EVE veteran your money basically...

Yes you give a EVE vet your money or ISK rather, what is the problem with that? He spent time improving his character while you just wanted in fast and payed him money for his character. Is there an issue?

Yeah the issue is you are buying a possibly 100 million SP character right off the bat and didn't earn it in any way either.  My idea allows a player to actually work (i.e. grind) his way to earning ISK in order to speed his SP accrual.  It would give noobs the feeling that they don't have to simply wait for the clock to tick but can actually EARN their SP.

I don't know why vets are so fearful of this.  It would allow a hard working young whipper snapper to actually pass (in terms of skill points) some people who work less and onlly wait for their SP to accrue.

No one really 'fears' this scenario, many new players with more cash than common sense actually try and buy a 100M SP character and all its ships and they end up undocking solo in a Dreadnaught in lowsec space and become wonderful cannon fodder for the lucky corp who stumbles across them.

Another great scenario is when they purchase some veteran charcter that was actually used in the scam of the century and somehow have to try and convince the rest of the playerbase that they really aren't that same person and therefore they and any corp they manage to join shouldn't be hunted into extinction every time they try to undock.

But we've really gone off track here, none of this has anything to do with the OP's question about why there shouldn't be a new server added.

 

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Kuro1n

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 778

3/08/12 5:32:13 PM#69
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

That's perfectly valid view and I do understand the vets feeling on that.  Your view above is an honest view.  Way more honest than the vets that say "SP don't matter"

If more vets described the reality like this to potential noobies I wouldn't have a problem with it...

On your final point though purchasing a character is already allowed and in fact supported by CCP.  The catch is you can only purchase them by giving an EVE veteran your money basically...

Yes you give a EVE vet your money or ISK rather, what is the problem with that? He spent time improving his character while you just wanted in fast and payed him money for his character. Is there an issue?

Yeah the issue is you are buying a possibly 100 million SP character right off the bat and didn't earn it in any way either.  My idea allows a player to actually work (i.e. grind) his way to earning ISK in order to speed his SP accrual.  It would give noobs the feeling that they don't have to simply wait for the clock to tick but can actually EARN their SP.

I don't know why vets are so fearful of this.  It would allow a hard working young whipper snapper to actually pass (in terms of skill points) some people who work less and onlly wait for their SP to accrue.

I dont know why you think this seems like a good idea, to me this sounds terrible and I'm a relatively new player. If you could spend ISK to get SP wouldnt vets with many many billions of ISK just be able to 'buy' SP on alts or their main? How would a newbie benefit from this and did you for one second actually believe the majority of the EVE population would like this change?

You can improve your SP increase though, grind for LP or ISK to buy implants and make a year long plan or such in EVEMon then optimize your attributes for that.

  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/08/12 5:33:56 PM#70
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

That's perfectly valid view and I do understand the vets feeling on that.  Your view above is an honest view.  Way more honest than the vets that say "SP don't matter"

If more vets described the reality like this to potential noobies I wouldn't have a problem with it...

On your final point though purchasing a character is already allowed and in fact supported by CCP.  The catch is you can only purchase them by giving an EVE veteran your money basically...

Yes you give a EVE vet your money or ISK rather, what is the problem with that? He spent time improving his character while you just wanted in fast and payed him money for his character. Is there an issue?

Yeah the issue is you are buying a possibly 100 million SP character right off the bat and didn't earn it in any way either.  My idea allows a player to actually work (i.e. grind) his way to earning ISK in order to speed his SP accrual.  It would give noobs the feeling that they don't have to simply wait for the clock to tick but can actually EARN their SP.

I don't know why vets are so fearful of this.  It would allow a hard working young whipper snapper to actually pass (in terms of skill points) some people who work less and onlly wait for their SP to accrue.

Ok, how about THIS for an idea which combines the grinding/working idea with the vets getting to cash in:

Vets are able to offer "training services" which they can charge at an ISK/skill point basis.  The interesting twist is a vet can onlly offer these services up to say 30% of their total skill points.  For example, a 100 million skillpoint vet can help train another character who is less than 30 million skill points.

This method will force new players to still play but will reward them for playing harder and more often.  It will also award the veterans and will award the longest term veterans the most.  It will also ensure the longer term vets get to keep their advantage since by definition nobody could ever train via ISK their way higher than 30% of the highest skillpoint character.

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Calfis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/15/11
Posts: 350

3/08/12 5:44:35 PM#71
Originally posted by AdamTM
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

Well he wont be equal (because of all that what you wrote), thats the whole point, he will just have the same amount skillpoints as you.

Whats there to object to?

Two things, first very simply, I don't want these kind of people recruited into alliances fighting alongside me (assuming some SP purchase is made to be able to get into insta-action) and actually have to depend on them to know what the fuck they are doing in PvP fleets because 9 times out of 10 your average new guy (including when I was new) knows fuck all about whats going on when pew starts happening between players.

Second the whole SP grind also serves a dual-purose to weed out the 'weak' those unwilling to tough things out or sit thru hard times. Those that quit, we want them to quit. Those that stay despite difficulty and boredom are the quality pilots that will make a great addition PvP alliances. Its kind of like you have to be hazed before you are accepted. 

  Kuro1n

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 778

3/08/12 5:51:58 PM#72
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

That's perfectly valid view and I do understand the vets feeling on that.  Your view above is an honest view.  Way more honest than the vets that say "SP don't matter"

If more vets described the reality like this to potential noobies I wouldn't have a problem with it...

On your final point though purchasing a character is already allowed and in fact supported by CCP.  The catch is you can only purchase them by giving an EVE veteran your money basically...

Yes you give a EVE vet your money or ISK rather, what is the problem with that? He spent time improving his character while you just wanted in fast and payed him money for his character. Is there an issue?

Yeah the issue is you are buying a possibly 100 million SP character right off the bat and didn't earn it in any way either.  My idea allows a player to actually work (i.e. grind) his way to earning ISK in order to speed his SP accrual.  It would give noobs the feeling that they don't have to simply wait for the clock to tick but can actually EARN their SP.

I don't know why vets are so fearful of this.  It would allow a hard working young whipper snapper to actually pass (in terms of skill points) some people who work less and onlly wait for their SP to accrue.

Ok, how about THIS for an idea which combines the grinding/working idea with the vets getting to cash in:

Vets are able to offer "training services" which they can charge at an ISK/skill point basis.  The interesting twist is a vet can onlly offer these services up to say 30% of their total skill points.  For example, a 100 million skillpoint vet can help train another character who is less than 30 million skill points.

This method will force new players to still play but will reward them for playing harder and more often.  It will also award the veterans and will award the longest term veterans the most.  It will also ensure the longer term vets get to keep their advantage since by definition nobody could ever train via ISK their way higher than 30% of the highest skillpoint character.

Well the vets would have to have some disadvantage as well otherwise they could just go skill up lots of their alt accounts to make money with by selling on the bazaar or such. I think the whole idea is bad honestly, to easy to exploit and too much rules would feel out of place in EVE (imo).

EDIT: And yea we should probably not derail this topic anymore... D:

  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/08/12 5:52:09 PM#73
Originally posted by Calfis
 Those that stay despite difficulty and boredom are the quality pilots that will make a great addition PvP alliances. Its kind of like you have to be hazed before you are accepted. 

Maybe this should be their new advertising mantra to entince new players into EVE:  "Come join our community.  After several months of boredom and hazing you too can have fun!" LOL

I of course never said the noob months were necassarily boring.  I mean, there is an element of boredom to the game mainly due to long travel times which never really goes away.  But I always found the min/maxing aspect fun although some complain it is too much like a "spreadsheet" which I disagree with.

But I just hate when vets hide the fact from noobs that you just need to accept yourself as a second class citizen for a really really long time.  Way longer than warranted in my opinion.

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  gainesvilleg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

3/08/12 5:58:24 PM#74
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

That's perfectly valid view and I do understand the vets feeling on that.  Your view above is an honest view.  Way more honest than the vets that say "SP don't matter"

If more vets described the reality like this to potential noobies I wouldn't have a problem with it...

On your final point though purchasing a character is already allowed and in fact supported by CCP.  The catch is you can only purchase them by giving an EVE veteran your money basically...

Yes you give a EVE vet your money or ISK rather, what is the problem with that? He spent time improving his character while you just wanted in fast and payed him money for his character. Is there an issue?

Yeah the issue is you are buying a possibly 100 million SP character right off the bat and didn't earn it in any way either.  My idea allows a player to actually work (i.e. grind) his way to earning ISK in order to speed his SP accrual.  It would give noobs the feeling that they don't have to simply wait for the clock to tick but can actually EARN their SP.

I don't know why vets are so fearful of this.  It would allow a hard working young whipper snapper to actually pass (in terms of skill points) some people who work less and onlly wait for their SP to accrue.

Ok, how about THIS for an idea which combines the grinding/working idea with the vets getting to cash in:

Vets are able to offer "training services" which they can charge at an ISK/skill point basis.  The interesting twist is a vet can onlly offer these services up to say 30% of their total skill points.  For example, a 100 million skillpoint vet can help train another character who is less than 30 million skill points.

This method will force new players to still play but will reward them for playing harder and more often.  It will also award the veterans and will award the longest term veterans the most.  It will also ensure the longer term vets get to keep their advantage since by definition nobody could ever train via ISK their way higher than 30% of the highest skillpoint character.

Well the vets would have to have some disadvantage as well otherwise they could just go skill up lots of their alt accounts to make money with by selling on the bazaar or such. I think the whole idea is bad honestly, to easy to exploit and too much rules would feel out of place in EVE (imo).

EDIT: And yea we should probably not derail this topic anymore... D:

First I'm not saying vets should sell their characters.  They can already do that actually.  I wish they couldn't in fact.

And my idea doesn't implement many new rules other than allowing, for example, a vet to auction skill points for a SP/ISK price where you can only bid if your SP is less than 30% of the auction listers skill level.  Something like that.  Not very complex.

And veterans exploiting?  LOL.  Most long-term vets have many alts that they fund via their main characters massive ISK production.  That ship has sailed...

EDIT:  And I don't think it is off-topic.  The OP wanted a new server basically to level the playing field.  Many said that is a bad idea.  I am proposing other ways to level the playing field a bit while still maintaining the spirit of the game...

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Kuro1n

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 778

3/08/12 6:21:02 PM#75
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Well, vets like to bring up this "entitled" point.  For example your final line above:

"This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept?  Everything has to be easy and handed to you?"

This is all so noble of a thought from the vets to have to "earn" it.  So how did vets exactly "earn" their skill points???  Simply by subscribing for a longer period of time.  PERIOD.  That is THE ONLY factor in obtaining skill points.

I've proposed in the past to allow people under, say 60 million skill points, to be able to purchase skill points with ISK.  Veterans went banana full monkey tilt at that idea.  That idea which, in fact, literally requires you to EARN skill points not just be entitled to them for subscribing longer.  Sure you can buy a veteran character today, but only buy paying EVE veterans money.  Fact is, EVE veterans are the ones being entitled and selfish...

No, its not simply subscribing longer, its sitting thru the bullshit when you didn't have enough skillpoints to join in the the epic stuff and still toughing it out by finding other things to occupy your time, grinding isk, learning game mechanics, politics, while training skills towards your goals (whatever your goals are).

I had to be a shit nullsec renter for a year before I got to join a proper PvP alliance, being a target for pvp roaming gangs and grinding up isk like a serf to help my corp pay for rent. Now I get to be the predator and it was well worth the ~effort~. Why should some noob with too much money be allowed to buy 30 million SP and think he is my 'equal' without having to 'tough it' like I did.

That's perfectly valid view and I do understand the vets feeling on that.  Your view above is an honest view.  Way more honest than the vets that say "SP don't matter"

If more vets described the reality like this to potential noobies I wouldn't have a problem with it...

On your final point though purchasing a character is already allowed and in fact supported by CCP.  The catch is you can only purchase them by giving an EVE veteran your money basically...

Yes you give a EVE vet your money or ISK rather, what is the problem with that? He spent time improving his character while you just wanted in fast and payed him money for his character. Is there an issue?

Yeah the issue is you are buying a possibly 100 million SP character right off the bat and didn't earn it in any way either.  My idea allows a player to actually work (i.e. grind) his way to earning ISK in order to speed his SP accrual.  It would give noobs the feeling that they don't have to simply wait for the clock to tick but can actually EARN their SP.

I don't know why vets are so fearful of this.  It would allow a hard working young whipper snapper to actually pass (in terms of skill points) some people who work less and onlly wait for their SP to accrue.

Ok, how about THIS for an idea which combines the grinding/working idea with the vets getting to cash in:

Vets are able to offer "training services" which they can charge at an ISK/skill point basis.  The interesting twist is a vet can onlly offer these services up to say 30% of their total skill points.  For example, a 100 million skillpoint vet can help train another character who is less than 30 million skill points.

This method will force new players to still play but will reward them for playing harder and more often.  It will also award the veterans and will award the longest term veterans the most.  It will also ensure the longer term vets get to keep their advantage since by definition nobody could ever train via ISK their way higher than 30% of the highest skillpoint character.

Well the vets would have to have some disadvantage as well otherwise they could just go skill up lots of their alt accounts to make money with by selling on the bazaar or such. I think the whole idea is bad honestly, to easy to exploit and too much rules would feel out of place in EVE (imo).

EDIT: And yea we should probably not derail this topic anymore... D:

First I'm not saying vets should sell their characters.  They can already do that actually.  I wish they couldn't in fact.

And my idea doesn't implement many new rules other than allowing, for example, a vet to auction skill points for a SP/ISK price where you can only bid if your SP is less than 30% of the auction listers skill level.  Something like that.  Not very complex.

And veterans exploiting?  LOL.  Most long-term vets have many alts that they fund via their main characters massive ISK production.  That ship has sailed...

EDIT:  And I don't think it is off-topic.  The OP wanted a new server basically to level the playing field.  Many said that is a bad idea.  I am proposing other ways to level the playing field a bit while still maintaining the spirit of the game...

If the vets can simply train up new characters without any disadvantages we would see a huge influx of new characters sold or made created by the vets and who would be the one to gain most again? The vets ofc by far. I'm perfectly content with the slow skill progression, why do you want it to be faster? Try posting this idea on the EVE boards and see what the responses will be.

  Foncl

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 191

3/08/12 6:48:19 PM#76

I would play the game if they opened a new server and made mining botproof, can't stand all the mining bots in highsec, at the same time I can understand why veterans don't like that idea. I really like the game and have played it for 5 months before I stopped, it just feels pointless starting out from scratch now.

As a new player EvE felt very much like a pyramid game where people are sitting at the top with original blueprints, nullsec empires, fully trained characters etc. New players are the slaves at the bottom of the pyramid doing all the boring work noone really wants to do. Sure there are ways to get to the top even if you start now, the effort needed means you can't live your real life though, or you have to spend alot of real money which I'm very much against. It's too bad really because the game is awesome, I just can't be bothered to play it starting at such an extreme disadvantage.

I would love to play EvE on a server that resets once every year or something like that, with faster skilltraining and new starsystem layout after every reset. Imagine the fights for territory after every reset and the fights with everything you have right before the server resets, that would promote alot of action all over the place instead of the boring politics between top players in the pyramid building empires.

  cosy

Newshound

Joined: 9/15/04
Posts: 3306

EvE Rules #491 you should never, ever attack Russians on winter months

3/08/12 9:33:17 PM#77
Originally posted by daveospice

I'd play it if a new server opened up though!

 

but you will still lose in eve while you wait other get game experience and that will make you quit again on the long run and you will wait for 3rd server

PD:EvEisNot4WoWkids
BestSigEver :P

  Kuro1n

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 778

3/08/12 9:49:36 PM#78
Originally posted by Foncl

I would play the game if they opened a new server and made mining botproof, can't stand all the mining bots in highsec, at the same time I can understand why veterans don't like that idea. I really like the game and have played it for 5 months before I stopped, it just feels pointless starting out from scratch now.

As a new player EvE felt very much like a pyramid game where people are sitting at the top with original blueprints, nullsec empires, fully trained characters etc. New players are the slaves at the bottom of the pyramid doing all the boring work noone really wants to do. Sure there are ways to get to the top even if you start now, the effort needed means you can't live your real life though, or you have to spend alot of real money which I'm very much against. It's too bad really because the game is awesome, I just can't be bothered to play it starting at such an extreme disadvantage.

I would love to play EvE on a server that resets once every year or something like that, with faster skilltraining and new starsystem layout after every reset. Imagine the fights for territory after every reset and the fights with everything you have right before the server resets, that would promote alot of action all over the place instead of the boring politics between top players in the pyramid building empires.

Why would i have to care about the big fish? As a small fish i have enough easy prey and as long as I dont try to piss some vet off im probably gonna be left alone. With 5 month worth of skill you should have about 5mil SP which makes you able to do quite a lot of things really, either go PVP in low/null in some corp or go PVE with some friend in highsec (lv 4 missions) you should make quite a nice profit from this and once you are able to get a good ship and make some incursions the ISK aint really that much of an issue anymore. I mean im quite a lazy player and can easily make 50-100mil per day by station trading on two characters which requires maybe 1hour per day of time max.

  dave6660

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2350

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

3/08/12 11:50:58 PM#79
Originally posted by Calfis

I started in 2010 with many 'vets' having years and years on me and I'm doing quite well. Why should we try to make it more accessible for people who come from games that are on easy mode and reward people for logging in, just because you can't harden the fuck up (tm CCP) doesnt mean the game should be made to accommodate you.

The point is that the guilds they HAVE are so entrenched there is no way to get them out. So for new players with the idea of say, making their own corporation, it is nearly undoable.

Why should they "get out"? If they have the organization and skill to stay alive for years that is something to be applauded, why should effort and success be seen as a negative? Because the new guy has a harder time? Shit lets knock down APPLE and FACEBOOK because new guys might have a hard time with them around. This is the kind of attitude and culture people are coming to accept? Everything has to be easy and handed to you?

Bravo!

I'd bet dollars to donuts that if hypothetically the server was reset tommorow (and there wasn't a mass exodus) within a year things would look very similar to what they do now.  The same groups of players would get back together and do what they did before.  The motivated and power hungry players would form huge alliances and control null sec again.  The players who just want to brawl and kick each other in the teeth endlessly (fac war and pirates) would be in low sec again.  The industrialist, miners and mission runners would be in high sec again.  And the people who want to whine and complain about how unfair it all is will have quit already.

 

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  dave6660

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2350

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

3/09/12 12:04:13 AM#80
Originally posted by cosy
Originally posted by daveospice

I'd play it if a new server opened up though!

 

but you will still lose in eve while you wait other get game experience and that will make you quit again on the long run and you will wait for 3rd server

Knowledge in Eve is a huge advantage.  It's something new players don't understand until they've been around a while and fought in a few hundred fleet fights.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

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