EVE Online Forum » Jita (General) » the ONLY reason EVE sucks

So after playing for about 5 months, I trained up a mission runner and just started doing level 4s.  This is supposed to be where I start raking in the ISK, which I guess I am...

But how is this different from grinding in any other MMO? 

After doing some research, T2 BPO owners make billions of ISK per week with little to no effort, while I max out at maybe 30mil per hour grinding.  

Why do I care?  I accept the fact that losing pvp fights costs money, but if the value of that money is different to different people, then the cost of losing a pvp fight is different for different people, this I cannot accept.

Invention has tiny profit margins, risk, and is vastly inferior to the ISK made by T2 BPO holders, in fact, nothing compares to the ISK they make, and nothing ever will until more T2 BPOs are released, which they never will be.

A ship loss for me results in hours of work to recoup losses, a ship loss for them is a rounding error, What's the point of a sandbox if other players have a massive unfair advantage?

I love the idea of EVE, and if not for this huge cancer to the economy, I would still be playing it.

2 ISK for your thoughts

I never played EVE, but that doesnt sound like an unfair advantage. After all, those people have all been in your shoes once. They worked hard to get to where they are (I would assume). They persevered, and so will you have to, if you want the rewards they are having.

just my 2 cents, I dont have any ISK =)

Grinding missions is a pretty low-level way of making ISK. It's the EvE equivalent of being on welfare: anyone can do it, it's just enough to keep you going, it's mind numingly boring, and you'll never get rich... but really it pays more than it really should so people think that it's a viable way to survive.

There are many, many other ways of making ISK. See if you can think of some.

I currently have about 10 bil in investments, ships, cash, other capital and the bulk of it came from t2 invention. (i have not ground missions or ratted substantially for quite some time)

I do not have any T2 BPOs but know some owners.

No more T2 BPOS will be added. Slowly the number of active t2 BPOs decrease both through direct loss (not often but it does happen) and owners becoming inactive.

Anytime someone trades a T2 BPO the purchase cost can not be recovered for many many months, sometimes years of continuous manufacture and sales. Getting every cycle of production out and to market without saturating a market requires joint efforts so the prices don't crash in one region. This splits profits over multiple players/accounts. Usually this means that T2 BPOs are corp level assets where the returns are invested more widely than in one individuals PvP fleet.

There is more demand for t2 goods than can be supplied by the T2 BPO holders. This inequity will only increase as the game expands.

All of this together means that while they do have a substantial effort on the market and what i choose to invent/build there is enough pie to go around.

---

Originally posted by chikinhok
Invention has tiny profit margins, risk 

---

Oh boy...You better watch your words.

You can do quite ok in L4 missions with 2 weeks old toon, just my 2 cents.

Wasn't there just another post about why Eve sucks?

So to be clear your complaint is that people who have played the game longer have more resources and can handle losses easier than someone just starting out in the game. You seem to also imply that after 5 months you should be on par with someone that has played for 5 years.

Seems to be a bit unrealistic to me. In pretty much every game out there more time in the game equates to more experience, more money, more abilities, etc. For example in WoW a level 80 that has been around for 4 years will have mounts and gold and probably be a bit bored but they didn't get there in 5 months. In any game this is pretty normal.

The issue in Eve Online is not that you can't catch up to the people that have played for years because to a certain degree you can't but can you be effective? Can you have fun? Can you contribute to your corporation? Yes and quite easily and with in a few weeks you can be up and running and contributing or working towards market domination. Its all up to you and how much effort you want to put into the game. Eve isn't a game for everyone or even every 10th person and it does have some serious design issues but this isn't one of them.

My thoughts are worth more than 2 isk, make me a better offer.

fail. mission running in eve is like doing your daily quests in wow. it gets you a little cash and some standings, but the big bucks comes from trading.

do yourself a favour, give a fresh alt 200 million and send them to amarr, buy named mods, so fleeting warp scrams, ddo target painters, cl- shield boosters etc, and then resell them. in a week you should have doubled that cash with ease.

Invention has been very good to me, with enough cash on-hand you can make a bunch of ISK with minimal time spent on trips picking up materials.  Just don't rip yourself off by selling in Jita, people will pay more for the convenience of not having to go there.

Invention is for the small to medium sized producer, so don't try to go head to head with the T2 BPO holders.

---

Originally posted by chikinhok
So after playing for about 5 months, I trained up a mission runner and just started doing level 4s.  This is supposed to be where I start raking in the ISK, which I guess I am...

---

Isn't that actually a reason why you suck, not Eve?

scnr..

---

Originally posted by M_Vex
Invention is for the small to medium sized producer, so don't try to go head to head with the T2 BPO holders.

---

Had you done your homework, you'd know that in the most profitable market niches bpo holders only have a tiny market share and tiny profits.

The people making the money are the moon holders.

---

Originally posted by batolemaeus
Had you done your homework, you'd know that in the most profitable market niches bpo holders only have a tiny market share and tiny profits.

The people making the money are the moon holders.

---

I don't want to nitpick much but about 1/3 of T2 items are produced from BPO. It heavily depends on what BPO you have and how CCP is scre..balancing the ships/modules but couple of people around me got those luxery BPO and it is no pocket change they make out of it.

Far better than R64.

Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

---

Originally posted by M_Vex
Invention is for the small to medium sized producer, so don't try to go head to head with the T2 BPO holders.

---

 

Had you done your homework, you'd know that in the most profitable market niches bpo holders only have a tiny market share and tiny profits.

The people making the money are the moon holders.

The only reason a T2 BPO holder would have "tiny" profits would be if they were paying down costs for buying the actual bpo.  I don't need to do my homework cause I pay attention in class  :p

---

Originally posted by M_Vex
The only reason a T2 BPO holder would have "tiny" profits would be if they were paying down costs for buying the actual bpo.  I don't need to do my homework cause I pay attention in class  :p

---

Originally posted by chikinhok

So after playing for about 5 months, I trained up a mission runner and just started doing level 4s.  This is supposed to be where I start raking in the ISK, which I guess I am...

But how is this different from grinding in any other MMO? 

After doing some research, T2 BPO owners make billions of ISK per week with little to no effort, while I max out at maybe 30mil per hour grinding.  

Why do I care?  I accept the fact that losing pvp fights costs money, but if the value of that money is different to different people, then the cost of losing a pvp fight is different for different people, this I cannot accept.

Invention has tiny profit margins, risk, and is vastly inferior to the ISK made by T2 BPO holders, in fact, nothing compares to the ISK they make, and nothing ever will until more T2 BPOs are released, which they never will be.

A ship loss for me results in hours of work to recoup losses, a ship loss for them is a rounding error, What's the point of a sandbox if other players have a massive unfair advantage?

 

I love the idea of EVE, and if not for this huge cancer to the economy, I would still be playing it.

2 ISK for your thoughts

 

 

So you call people who have been playing the game for years a "cancer to the economy"?

Originally posted by M_Vex

Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

---

Originally posted by M_Vex
Invention is for the small to medium sized producer, so don't try to go head to head with the T2 BPO holders.

---

 

Had you done your homework, you'd know that in the most profitable market niches bpo holders only have a tiny market share and tiny profits.

The people making the money are the moon holders.

 

The only reason a T2 BPO holder would have "tiny" profits would be if they were paying down costs for buying the actual bpo.  I don't need to do my homework cause I pay attention in class  :p

Or, you know, if they could only manufacture from a single blueprint, greatly limiting their total production rate to a fraction of what an Inventor/Manufacturer can produce? BPO holders gain on margin, lose on volume.

I'm not clear on how much ISK a T2 BPO owner makes but lets say your point is valid OP in which it might be. Well,  its most likely possible to trade for a T2 BPO. So that makes it fair in a way. It's just an extremely rare resource

Additionally, think of it this way. Normally, the more ISK you make- the more expensize and exotic your tastes become. I'm sure these rich guys you speak of were probably flying around in T3 ships when they first came out and cost 1 billion. These are probably also the same guys floating around in caps. So the loss to their wallet is perhaps equivalent to your losses to your personal wallet if you look at it on a percentage basis

I know if I was rich, I'd just fly the most expensive and high performance ship I could find. This way I protect my investment into my implants (cause if I was rich I'd just pvp with +5s on instead of +3/+4)

Get out of mission running and get into wormholes.

With very casual playing I've made 3.7B ISK since 9/24.  Some folks can easily make far more with more playtime or higher class wormholes (I hunt in class 4's)

Might not equal the revenue of BPO or moonholders, but I don't waste time envying others on how much they make, I work hard trying to figure out ways to enrich my own holdings.

In addition my WH OP's, I have 17 datacore agents which brings me in about 3.5 Billion ISK a year as well.  Not a fortune, but it comes in whether I play or not.... free ISK for the most part.

If the only way to make money was lv 4's, I would quit Eve.

Guess what? There's dozens and dozens of other ways that can actually be fun.

If something is boring you, don't do it.

I remember being in the same situation as you,  getting to level 4's and sorta getting bored with eve.

I quite for 3/4 months trying other games, when I came back I hit the level 4's again, I was able to do the faster and faster each time, but again I got bored and un-subbed.

The next time I re-subbed I thought.. RIGHT, this time I'm going force myself to do something different and join a 0.0 corp.  I made my first billion within 2 weeks and had more fun doing stuff together with a corp then ever before.

It didnt last VERY long, once I had made lots of money there didnt seem much more to do.. again, unsubbed for a 3/4 more months.

I dont know what it is but I keep coming back to eve, lol.  The next time I came back to eve I tried Faction warfare!... Whoa.. now that WAS addictive!...

I still go back to highsec and farm levels 4's every now and then for the money though =)

Now, with the next expansion I think I might look for another 0.0, pvp orientation corp.

I think what im trying to say is that, once you can solo level 4's, you ALWAYS have a money income, not matter what happens you always have that to fall back on.. so its time to spread the wings and venture out.  Its really the start of your Eve experience.  Fly safe o/

thanks for all the replies guys, i have a few questions if u dont mind

are good wormholes only reachable from 0.0?  or can profitable ones be found in empire?

Is it possible to get into an 0.0 corp with sub 10 million SP, and only Caldari ships trained?

how do i get cargo containers to show up while probe scanning?

And to the guy who said "So you call people who have been playing the game for years a "cancer to the economy"?

I was talking about T2 BPOs, not the people who own them

You don't really make big money in wormholes unless you live in them at a POS, so find yourself a good WH corp and join their operation.  Regarding entry, I've never gone through 0.0 to gain entry to our hole, however sometimes I  have to go through a few hops of low sec and 2 or 3 WH's to get there.  Once in a great while we get a direct exit from our hole into empire. (we usually close them quickly to prevent raiders from showing up)

Yes, you can get in many 0.0 corps with about 5M SP's and Caldari ships are great for ratting so no problem on that score.  Everyone in 0.0 loves Caldari for ewar/ECM and many a Raven pilot have successfully hunted in 0.0.

Never really looked for cargo containers when probing, but if they can be found it would be with combat probes.

Be warned, we view anyone using combat probes in our WH as a hostile act and we will kill you without pause if we catch you.

LOL..anyone using combat probes at any time is considered a dead man.

you cant probe out cans.

wormholes appear in highsec, lowsec and nullsec.

5 million is the general recuiting limit for most nullsec corps, however theres always a few exceptions. for the most part these exceptions are pretty poor, but may serve as a stepping stone for you.

Originally posted by chikinhok

thanks for all the replies guys, i have a few questions if u dont mind

are good wormholes only reachable from 0.0?  or can profitable ones be found in empire?

Is it possible to get into an 0.0 corp with sub 10 million SP, and only Caldari ships trained?

how do i get cargo containers to show up while probe scanning?

 

And to the guy who said "So you call people who have been playing the game for years a "cancer to the economy"?

I was talking about T2 BPOs, not the people who own them

 

All wormholes are profitable to different degrees, The higher class wormholes can only be accessed from 0.0 and other wormholes.

As for the whole T2 BPOs believe it or not every T2 BPO holder I know does invention as well for the same item that he has a BPO for. Problem with the Ship BPOs which is the rstriction to how many you can build.  Most T2 Ship inventers can produce more T2 ships per month then a BPO by itself.

" Why do I care? I accept the fact that losing pvp fights costs money, but if the value of that money is different to different people, then the cost of losing a pvp fight is different for different people, this I cannot accept. 

A ship loss for me results in hours of work to recoup losses, a ship loss for them is a rounding error, What's the point of a sandbox if other players have a massive unfair advantage?"
 

I think that is the point of a Sandbox game. Its more like real life. Competitive and unfair. Dedicated players in EVE can grow powerful with money, influence, politics, system control, type of ships, etc...

Its not a theme park mmo where everyone is 'equal'.  It has a distinct hierarchy

For me, its the biggest draw to EVE. To bad I suck at pvp. But I have learned to make enough isk to compensate for losses. And there are ways to make 10's millions with ease in EVE. You just have to figure out how. Again, thats Sandbox to me.

If you want a level playing field, EVE is not it. But noobs can compete with veterans from day 1.

I respect your post though.