Originally posted by comerb

But, since the OP seems  upset by the fact that no one has told him why EVE's skill system is the way it is, I'll let him in on the secret.

Ready?

The skill system is the way it is because it's the best choice for a game that allows all the options EVE allows.

You want to gain combat skills by combat, correct? Sure that sounds great! So you hop in a ship and take a mission and fire lasers at NPC's to raise your Energy Turret skills. Kewl. I'm not sure how you skill up stuff like Sharpshooting or Motion Prediction. Maybe just lump all the skills together under "Laser Guns"? Or do you just reduce all the turret and weapon type skills together to "Gunnery"?

Then you'll want to raise your Shield skills. Go find a mission where the NPC's deal EM damage and raise your EM Resistance. Or do all the Shield skills get dumped together too? Actually, why worry at all? Just go somewhere quiet and duel a fellow guildmember and both use lasers! Skills for both of you will be maxed in no time! Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

Oh, wait. No, this is the "Bloodwall" problem that Darkfail ran into. My mistake.

Of course, now the economy is buggered. You gain Manufacturing skills by building stuff. So everyone buys Tritanium and starts making small ammo. The market for ammo is ruined, Tritanium goes thru the roof, manufacturers go broke because it costs more for raw materials than you can get for finished products. The economy ends up like FFXI where people stand in line for the shops to open to buy up all the Arrowwood Lumber to craft arrows no one wants. Or, just sell the lumber for an inflated price.

I can't begin to imagine how Marketeer players would level up. Put stuff up for sale and then buy it back yourself? Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

The OP complains that EVE doesn't reward players for logging in and playing. That assumption is false. It makes the mistake of equating skill gains with rewards. Skills aren't rewards in EVE. Winning a fight for your Corp, cornering the market, or ransoming a transport ship are the rewards. Skilling up is just something that happens along the way rather than being the result of "Kill X Sansha and bring back Y Prisoners", or shooting 100 more rats with your missiles.

That's why everyone says you're doing it wrong. You are.

 

Here's another solid post for the reasons why.  

Just to add to this, when you make a game all about progression (via skillpoints or levels) it takes away from the soul of the game.  It makes the entire game about grinding skill-points or levels, and casts a shadow over the real important gameplay elements.

I play Eve to actually play Eve.  Not to grind skill point or levels.  It's refreshing.

And EVE isn't about levels?  Why does it take a year to get a decent character then?  How are you progressing?  Is that not levels?

Obviously it does have levels, it's just in the form of subscription time.  The people who have a subscription longer to EVE advance more than people with shorter subscription times. 

If EVE was about "playing EVE", they would take the whole time-based skill thing out of the game entirely, but they didn't.  

Also, what do you call the mission system in EVE if it is not grinding?  I guess allowing players to do 1000s of quests doesn't encourage grinding ISK.  

Grinding is in EVE

You play EVE to play EVE, lol..  A game that doesn't even require you to log in for it to work for you.  Sounds like EVE plays for you, you just keep that subscription going, what a worthless MMO

And EVE isn't about levels?  Why does it take a year to get a decent character then?  How are you progressing?  Is that not levels?

Obviously it does have levels, it's just in the form of subscription time.  The people who have a subscription longer to EVE advance more than people with shorter subscription times. 

If EVE was about "playing EVE", they would take the whole time-based skill thing out of the game entirely, but they didn't.  

Also, what do you call the mission system in EVE if it is not grinding?  I guess allowing players to do 1000s of quests doesn't encourage grinding ISK.  

Grinding is in EVE

 

You play EVE to play EVE, lol..  A game that doesn't even require you to log in for it to work for you.  Sounds like EVE plays for you, you just keep that subscription going, what a worthless MMOd

 

It takes 3 months to have a decent character, capable of competing with veteran player.   It takes 2 weeks to be useful.  It's more forgiving than any other MMO in that regard.

Leveling skills isn't "playing" Eve.  Grinding missions isn't playing Eve. Macro mining isn't playing Eve.  Is English a second language for you or something?  Do we need an interpreter to break this down for you?  

Playing Eve is:

Nulsec Warfare, Wormholes, Pirating, Faction Warfare, high yield trading, playing the market, finding an industrial need, scanning down target/anomolies, small gang warfare, Wardecs, monopolizing a market, corp politics, diplomacy, alliances,  spy games, covert ops, low sec hauling, mercenaries,  economic warfare, controlling space lanes, destroying supply lines, etc etc

All that is a hell of a lot more fun than watching an experience bar tick tick tick

Mining in high sec and grinding missions isn't playing Eve.  .  Anyone would have a jaded opinion of the game if thats all they did.

---

Originally posted by comerb
Mining in high sec and grinding missions isn't playing Eve.

---

It is a one of many ways how to play the game, no 0.0 PVP or any other playstyle is better - they are all equal.

It's not that the game sucks i tryed it really a ok game 2 me it's just that you didn't like it so there for it sucks. If i used that reason then you suck to. People really need to do something besides posting omg I didnt't like it so there for it sucks.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by comerb
Mining in high sec and grinding missions isn't playing Eve.

---

 

It is a one of many ways how to play the game, no 0.0 PVP or any other playstyle is better - they are all equal.

your grasping at straws now

---

Originally posted by comerb
your grasping at straws now

---

Not really. You might find such playstyle silly and not experiencing EVE in 'full potential' but that does not make it less valid.

Missions and mining is as vital to EVE as pew pew.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by metalhead980

Give it up already.

You got totally owned in this thread.

The only reason this thread has any heat is because you broke the rules and posted this in General forum.

If you had placed this post in Eve forums you would have been dismantled in 30 posts or less.

You know nothing of Eve, You can't wrap your head around it's mechanics and why people like it.

So give up and dream about your glory days in EQ.

Have fun "Beating" your mmos, whatever that means.

I'm glad Eve turned away another "Power gamer".

 

 

 

Yeah, EVE is just a game for ebayers and people who can't handle real MMORPGs

Anyone who likes a model where you don't even have to log in to advance your character has to be either the ebayer-type or lazy.

Those are the people who like EVE

 

Obviously the people posting here are biased, but I will win this argument regardless because EVE is a broken game. 

Wrap my head around game mechanics? Lol.  Like it takes more than a couple of days to figure out EVE.  An MMORPG like Maple Story has more sophisticated game mechanics than EVE.  

 

someone is bitter because he couldnt "beat eve". QQ more elsewhere, i guess this means you havent beaten every mmorpg you've played.

---

Originally posted by Ginkeq
Why does it take a year to get a decent character then?  How are you progressing?  Is that not levels?

---

EVE would not change much if you got all available skills since day 1 but how would WoW have been if you got max level and access to all available gear since day 1? Not much to do there, I guess.

EVE is not based on character progression or item collecting.

Why having real-time skill system? Because that way you can have different skill sets - unique characters.

Skills, equippment, missions, exploration, pew pew, market trading, mining, manufacturing and research, player interaction - all are instruments to get more ships blown up.

It is up to you to decide how you will 'progress' towards this ultimate goal.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by comerb
your grasping at straws now

---

 

Not really. You might find such playstyle silly and not experiencing EVE in 'full potential' but that does not make it less valid.

Missions and mining is as vital to EVE as pew pew.

No, your just grasping at straws to try to make a point.  A very weak point at that.  My point is if you do something boring... its going to be boring.  Nobody in this thread is saying mining and missions are fun, not even the most hardcore Eve player.  To some players they are an end to a means, but that is an option... and its solely at the discretion of the player.  Anyone who does nothing but mine and mission in Eve is going to hate the game.  All you did was run missions... and don't bother denying it, we'd all know your lying.

Naturally you hate the game because of that.  I don't blame you.  But you never "played" Eve.  Mommy dropped you off in the sandbox and all you did was thrash around and get sand in your eyes.  Try building a castle next time.

---

Originally posted by comerb
My point is if you do something boring... its going to be boring.

---

Only point here is that it is boring to you only.

Considering that majority of EVE players never leave high sec ever, it would indicate that mission running community is quite large.

Found something for you:
Enjoy :)

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by comerb
My point is if you do something boring... its going to be boring.

---

 

Only point here is that it is boring to you only.

Considering that majority of EVE players never leave high sec ever, it would indicate that mission running community is quite large.

Found something for you:
Enjoy :)

So your argument is because people choose to play the game in a boring way... that what?  It shouldn't be boring?

Mission running is popular because it is a low risk endeavor with high profitability.  Not because its fun.  Humans will always take the path of least resistance.  It's the same reason your proposed skill system would degrade the game.  People wouldn't play the game to have fun or accomplish goals, they'd play the game to grind skills... and they'd take the easiest and fastest path available to them.  Thank you for making my point by bringing up mission running.

Most people run missions as a method of funding other endeavors(PvP in some form usually).  They don't run missions for the sake of running missions.  If you run missions for the sake of running missions, you're missing the point.

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by comerb
your grasping at straws now

---

 

Not really. You might find such playstyle silly and not experiencing EVE in 'full potential' but that does not make it less valid.

Missions and mining is as vital to EVE as pew pew.

 

No, your just grasping at straws to try to make a point.  A very weak point at that.  My point is if you do something boring... its going to be boring.  Nobody in this thread is saying mining and missions are fun, not even the most hardcore Eve player.  To some players they are an end to a means, but that is an option... and its solely at the discretion of the player.  Anyone who does nothing but mine and mission in Eve is going to hate the game.  All you did was run missions... and don't bother denying it, we'd all know your lying.

Naturally you hate the game because of that.  I don't blame you.  But you never "played" Eve.  Mommy dropped you off in the sandbox and all you did was thrash around and get sand in your eyes.  Try building a castle next time.

I don't know I have a couple buddies that play so casually that they actually look forward to logging in on a Saturday,running a handful of missions and socializing then logging off.

They love the lore, the games style and fitting mission ships. They enjoy the Corp, making a few million isk and are completely satisfied with their version of Eve.

I'll even go as far as saying they have fun running missions. The other day I was in a conversation about the Eve novel and buddy told me he was more immersed in mission running for the Caldari Navy after reading the book.

Just shows you that people play and enjoy the game different ways. Missions and Mining are apart of Eve so it makes no sense to tell players they arent playing the game if they do those things since most enjoy those aspects of Eve very much.

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by comerb
My point is if you do something boring... its going to be boring.

---

 

Only point here is that it is boring to you only.

Considering that majority of EVE players never leave high sec ever, it would indicate that mission running community is quite large.

Found something for you:
Enjoy :)

 

So your argument is because people choose to play the game in a boring way... that what?  It shouldn't be boring?

Mission running is popular because it is a low risk endeavor with high profitability.  Not because its fun.  Humans will always take the path of least resistance.  It's the same reason your proposed skill system would degrade the game.  People wouldn't play the game to have fun or accomplish goals, they'd play the game to grind skills... and they'd take the easiest and fastest path available to them.  Thank you for making my point by bringing up mission running.

Most people run missions as a method of funding other endeavors(PvP in some form usually).  They don't run missions for the sake of running missions.  If you run missions for the sake of running missions, you're missing the point.

EvE online is no worse for casual play than the Facebook MMOs, login for thirty minutes or so and do whatever. I think only a small proportion of the EvE subs actually play more than 20 hours a week. 

While some people may manage to have fun running missions, it's hard to deny that they could certainly be a lot more fun. Whilst I certainly want EvE to be a PvP-focused game, PvE is obviously necessary. But that's no reason that it should be so boring for the majority that it's effectively a punishment.

Originally posted by Illyssia

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by comerb
My point is if you do something boring... its going to be boring.

---

 

Only point here is that it is boring to you only.

Considering that majority of EVE players never leave high sec ever, it would indicate that mission running community is quite large.

Found something for you:
Enjoy :)

 

So your argument is because people choose to play the game in a boring way... that what?  It shouldn't be boring?

Mission running is popular because it is a low risk endeavor with high profitability.  Not because its fun.  Humans will always take the path of least resistance.  It's the same reason your proposed skill system would degrade the game.  People wouldn't play the game to have fun or accomplish goals, they'd play the game to grind skills... and they'd take the easiest and fastest path available to them.  Thank you for making my point by bringing up mission running.

Most people run missions as a method of funding other endeavors(PvP in some form usually).  They don't run missions for the sake of running missions.  If you run missions for the sake of running missions, you're missing the point.

 

EvE online is no worse for casual play than the Facebook MMOs, login for thirty minutes or so and do whatever. I think only a small proportion of the EvE subs actually play more than 20 hours a week. 

Are you crazy? x'DDDDDDDDDDD

Originally posted by Eridanix

Originally posted by Illyssia

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by comerb
My point is if you do something boring... its going to be boring.

---

 

Only point here is that it is boring to you only.

Considering that majority of EVE players never leave high sec ever, it would indicate that mission running community is quite large.

Found something for you:
Enjoy :)

 

So your argument is because people choose to play the game in a boring way... that what?  It shouldn't be boring?

Mission running is popular because it is a low risk endeavor with high profitability.  Not because its fun.  Humans will always take the path of least resistance.  It's the same reason your proposed skill system would degrade the game.  People wouldn't play the game to have fun or accomplish goals, they'd play the game to grind skills... and they'd take the easiest and fastest path available to them.  Thank you for making my point by bringing up mission running.

Most people run missions as a method of funding other endeavors(PvP in some form usually).  They don't run missions for the sake of running missions.  If you run missions for the sake of running missions, you're missing the point.

 

EvE online is no worse for casual play than the Facebook MMOs, login for thirty minutes or so and do whatever. I think only a small proportion of the EvE subs actually play more than 20 hours a week. 

 
 

Are you crazy? x'DDDDDDDDDDD

No, not at all, I just think if players want to play a mmo very casually, and a lot seem to, they just log on for 30-60 min every other day and do whatever in a game. 

---

Originally posted by comerb
So your argument is because people choose to play the game in a boring way... that what?  It shouldn't be boring?
Mission running is popular because it is a low risk endeavor with high profitability.  Not because its fun.  Humans will always take the path of least resistance.  It's the same reason your proposed skill system would degrade the game.  People wouldn't play the game to have fun or accomplish goals, they'd play the game to grind skills... and they'd take the easiest and fastest path available to them.  Thank you for making my point by bringing up mission running.
Most people run missions as a method of funding other endeavors(PvP in some form usually).  They don't run missions for the sake of running missions.  If you run missions for the sake of running missions, you're missing the point.

---

The fact that you find mission running boring does not mean it is no fun for others.

Considering how grindy and PVE focused most MMO are and how many players they are able to acommodate, your assumptions of dull and repetitive missions being no fun for anyone seems completely way off.

Missions are not much different from any other grinding mechanics thus there is no reason to expect they are no fun for certain EVE community.

Truth is that people are more focused towards PVE content than anything else(not talking about EVE but players in general).

 

Considering how grindy and PVE focused most MMO are and how many players they are able to acommodate, your assumptions of dull and repetitive missions being no fun for anyone seems completely way off.

Your right, I'm must be off my rocker.  Whatever could I have been thinking?  I'll just go back to watching my grass grow, this forum is too intense for me.

Illysia, the Facts contradict your view. See it and make a little of maths.

---

Originally posted by Eridanix
Illysia, the Facts contradict your view. See it and make a little of maths.

---

Speaking for myself as EVE player that logs in for 10 hours per week, I can't imagine using x-fire or similar application/website.
I would say it is pointless for player with such casual gaming time.

When looking at other game stats, you get very similar numbers - 4 to 5 hours play time per day and I don't think those games can be played as casualy as you can play EVE.

Facts are one thing, being able to interpret and apply them is another.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Eridanix
Illysia, the Facts contradict your view. See it and make a little of maths.

---

 

Speaking for myself as EVE player that logs in for 10 hours per week, I can't imagine using x-fire or similar application/website.
I would say it is pointless for player with such casual gaming time.

When looking at other game stats, you get very similar numbers - 4 to 5 hours play time per day and I don't think those games can be played as casualy as you can play EVE.

Facts are one thing, being able to interpret and apply them is another.

I've never met anyone in EvE who used Xfire

Xfire numbers here shows a sample, not a global collect. But it allows to get  more or less the time 2k users are playing EVE per day.

I know people who plays casual EVE & very dedicated players as myself that log on more than 14 hours a week.

I should say that in fact there is a grind in EVE related to ISK, in fact is such a grind as Lineage2 to be able to stand at the level needed to being in a corp and to PvP with some sort of chance.

I should have switched to EQ2 when SOE ruined SWG. x'D (I need a break from EVE right now, because for me it is not casual at all). :/

---

Originally posted by Eridanix
Xfire numbers here shows a sample, not a global collect. But it allows to get  more or less the time 2k users are playing EVE per day.
I know people who plays casual EVE & very dedicated players as myself that log on more than 14 hours a week.
I should say that in fact there is a grind in EVE related to ISK, in fact is such a grind as Lineage2 to be able to stand at the level needed to being in a corp and to PvP with some sort of chance.
I should have switched to EQ2 when SOE ruined SWG. x'D (I need a break from EVE right now, because for me it is not casual at all). :/

---

1) The X-fire sample is invalid, especially for purpose which you are trying to 'argument' with.

2) There is as much grind in EVE as you allow/want.
In Lineage or any other game the grind is elemetal part of the game design. In EVE, ISK is just a resource that can be obtained by numerous ways - grind is only one way among many.

EVE - your time, your choice.

Originally posted by Eridanix

Illysia, the Facts contradict your view. See it and make a little of maths.

I doubt very many casual EvE players would bother to actually use Xfire (or even know what it was) so your point isn't very meaningful I think. If CCP have released figures for the 300K that would be believable. My experience is that I have known players who play EvE very casually and just log on for 30 min a day and do comparatively little.

DAMN!!!

ive read about 50% of these posts and skimmed the rest and honestly i can come to 1 conclusion!

those who think EVE sucks give arguments that fall in the "wrong facts" category

-More skills = better player (WRONG FACT)

argument, what good is fighting with a character that has 40 million SP when 30 million are set in mining and only 10 in combat?

argument2, what good is having the skills for a command ship or  a battleship when in that fight you are a tackler in an assault frigate. I would say a player will use (and im pushing it) about 5 million skill points worth of skills when they take a certain role (capitals and higher end ships excluded)

-Eve players play eve while offline (WRONG FACT)

argument, there is so much to do in eve that we dont bother with the skill training, instead we play the game.

argument2, k you have trained for 6 months offline while playing (insert mainstream MMO) now you think you are half uber and go in because you can fly a command ships with tech 2 everything... good how you gonna aford it? ok buy some plexes... now what you have your goober command ship with goober weapons, lets do some missions! oh right you dont have any standings with any agents... and the new agents wont alow you to use a command ship? oh you mean you need to use a cruiser or lower?ohyou could have done that within the 1st week of play!... ok then missions are not your thing lets go into more dangerous territory becaus eyou have a really nice tech 2 fitted realyl expensive ship, lets go into low sec... (makes the sound of the warpgate jump) whats all those 30 red flashy things... oh a gate camp... no more command ship.

all that could have been avoided, if you would have played the game from day 1 doing missions and get enough isk to buy the command ship. get into a corp that might have taught you how to use those shiny pewpews AND have backup when going into low sec/nul sec so at least you have a fighting chance with those ships.

-eve is boring (WRONG FACT)

argument, mining missioning are boring in high sec , yeah sure, go on to low sec/0.0 and mine the same way, oops, you lost another hulk because you went afk to the bathroom in a solo mining op? maybe you should have organized a fleet to back you up... oh wait you need friends for that you need to create alliances, get into a corp that has the ressources and manpower to actually make those ops possible, in fact they might even have the ressources to replace your stuff if you loose it. ill give that eve is a BIG NO NO FOR SOLO PLAYERS.

-Autopilot is the way to travel (WRONG FACT)

argument, OH GOD NO! you put anything of value in a ship and people will find a way to explode you and take it. Even in High sec. And for the love of god, there is an option that says warp to 0. this will save you ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF TIME!  P.S. concord is there to punish, not to protect.

i know im forgetting alot more WRONG FACTS! but all this false information leads me to believe that those who think that eve sucks either never played past the tutorial (or skipped it and quit after a few hours of wandering around) or have never played it at all.

Play eve for more time, get into a corp and then you are placed to tell people that its boring, but dont come here with what "you heard from eve" or with only a few hours of gameplay.

Edit: OH CRAP WALL OF TEXT! didnt realize i wrote so much!