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EVE Online Column: The Top Five PvP MMOs
In this week's list, MMORPG.com contributor William Murphy writes this look at what he feels are the top five PvP MMOs from both the past and the present.
By William Murphy on January 06, 2010
It occurred to me as we start 2010 that I’ve spent more time playing MMOs over the past 10 years than I spent reading, writing, drawing, watching TV, riding my bike, or any other one of my hobbies. I tried to think about why I would feel inclined to spend so much of my leisure time in imaginary worlds clubbing giant rats. After vowing to ride my bike more and actually read something other than quest text in 2010, I realized one of the main reasons I like to spend several hours a week in online space is the people... and sometimes more accurately: killing them. I love questing, but the competitive streak in me loves a good fight with human opponents. Keep in mind that this list is my own, and your mileage may vary, but here then are my top five PvP MMOs.
#5 WORLD OF WARCRAFT
This game’s version of PvP may get flack for being the big daddy in the MMO world, and for pretty much screwing things up entirely back in the early days of the Honor Systems inception, but I have more memorable moments fighting other players in Azeroth than I do in any other game. Back before the Honor System was ever introduced, I spent countless hours fighting the Horde at Tarren Mill, and advancing on the Sepulcher just to see how long we dwarves, elves, gnomes, and men could hold off the enemy. Today, WoW’s PvP is more about E-Sports than open-world warfare, but for that it deserves plenty of mention. Blizzard has a knack for creating games that spawn an entire culture of competitive play, and WoW was no different. Something tells me we’ll be talking about Alterac Valley and Arena Scores for years to come.
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#4 WARHAMMER ONLINE
Say what you will about WAR’s failings, unmet potential and corporate controversy, but no one can deny that what WAR does right it does well. Right from the very get go the game herds players into the ongoing conflict between the Order and Destruction armies. It’s still the only game that has ever made me want to PvP (or RvR) right at level one and do nothing else to advance. This is in part because of the lackluster PvE game, but also because of the sheer fun had in playing WAR’s Scenarios and tackling objectives in the RvR Lakes. Nothing beat the feeling of pounding players twenty feet through the air with a shield bash and into the lava, or just how epic it felt when a small band of guildmates held off a horde of attackers from taking our keep. If only the end game of city sieges had felt as good as the lower levels did, WAR would be higher on my list.
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#3 ULTIMA ONLINE
While today’s Ultima Online bears little resemblance to the game launched in 1997, it still holds a special place for me as one of the first true online worlds I ever set foot in. And contrary to the popular modus operandi of today’s games, Ultima Online was a wide open player-run world more than a theme park. I’m not condemning either style, merely pointing out the difference. The reason Ultima is on this list is because of the Wild West atmosphere it brought to the MMO. There were murderers, roving bands of brigands, neighborhood watches… all player-driven. It didn’t have a “PvP System”; it just had people in a world where imagination drove the events. It’s been over ten years since I last played around in Ultima Online, and perhaps youth and nostalgia cloud my memory, but there is simply nothing like the early days of Ultima Online.
#2 DARK AGE OF CAMELOT
Trials of Atlantis aside, Dark Age of Camelot is my number two PvP experience for the simple fact of “Realm Pride”. There are three warring sides in Dark Age of Camelot, all vying for control of the land in the wake of King Arthur’s death. Having three factions might be the very thing that made the Realm vs. Realm conflict work in DAoC. When one side would be dominant above the others, alliances would be formed, subterfuge enacted, tactics thought up and tested. It was like a never-ending battle scene from Braveheart… if Mel Gibson had had the foresight to put in dwarves, kobolds and half-ogres. In World of Warcraft these days you can pay a fee to change your faction. In DAoC, no one would have ever thought twice about doing so. When you chose your side, you stuck to it. Hibernia for life.
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#1 EVE ONLINE
While this is actually my least favorite game on the list to actually play, I can’t help but marvel at the player-driven world and conflicts within EVE. Hosted on a single shared server, EVE’s player-driven economy is the cause of all conflict in the game, and proof to this gamer at least that money is the root of all evil. Corporations (guilds) fight over resources. Players back-stab, blackmail, and coerce each other in order to get what they want. Over the course of nearly a year one Corporation actually spent the time and energy to infiltrate another in order to virtually assassinate the CEO and steal that corporation’s property which they had gained access to. The equivalent of roughly $10,000 was lost in the crime, as was the victim CEO’s expensive starship. The craziest part? This is all sanctioned and allowed within the game’s rule set. It’s definitely telling of the nature of man, but at the same time I find it inherently cool that a game and more so its players could enact such a scheme and story of such grandeur.
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What about shadowbane, DAoC and AO:Notum Wars?
Darkfall? Same rule set as EVE online and have more features now from EVE at launch. Still EVE is better than Darkfall after all those years of tweaking and polishing. Can't argue that.
Ohhh, and for instance lovers: 3 top have open world PvP :P
EDIT: Yeah, what about Shadowbane?
When I first read the list I couldn't believe you actually had the gall to include WoW as a PvP MMO. After thinking about it though, I do have many fond memories of fighting for hours and hours at TM. I kinda miss City raids too :)
I won't be a blind WoW hater, maybe WoW deserves to barely be on that list at #5, and maybe not. But WAR? /facepalm You've got to be kidding me. That MMO has some of the most bland PvP I have ever witnessed. Replace it with something like Shadowbane. I'm sorry but you have low ass standards if WAR is on your top 5 list of PvP MMOs.
now that's a great top ! Finally something usefull for those in search of PvP
No Darkfall? What a joke.
No Shadowbane? The game didn't have much else to offer, but it did do pvp very well.
Good call on the DAoC. Best RvR/PvP I've found. It's what brings me back to that game over and over again.
I can see eve being number one as the entire game is open pvp in 0.4 space and lower.
The other games I barly played.
I totally agree. The fact that an incredibly bland game like WAR can appear on a top 5 pvp mmo list goes to show how lacking mmos are for decent pvp games. WoW isnt even a pvp game and it gets a place........and Ultima Online is 10 years old. Then again I knew the list was going to be terrible before I even clicked on the link.
This article simply proves that we need more pvp based mmos. Hopefully this will change in 2010
Brought the same memories to mind for me, as well. :) It was really cool to be able to go back to TM when I was a higher level in order to hang around and defend the L20s that were questing and leveling in the area.
good list, the only one i'd disagree with would be WAR to be honest. They didn't really do anything special in that game as far as pvp goes imo. WoW should be at least higher than WAR, but from the sounds of it you're basing all of the ranks on open pvp and considered arenas e-sport which I guess is pretty accurate. No doubt in my mind that warcraft arenas are the most competitive pvp aspect of any mmo to date and justly on the list.
The list also brought up some good memories of DAOC :) I didn't play EVE long enough to fully enjoy the pvp, I tried the game for the first time about a month ago and just felt like I was way to behind other players that could of possibly been playing for 6 years.
AO: Notum Wars isnt a good choice to be listed in here since its nothing but twink fights. There is no great challenge in there. The more creds you sink in your twink, the better it is. That is all.
I wonder if Planetside should be in the list.
WoW is on this list, but Darkfall isn't? I don't think any serious MMO PvP player is going to take this seriously. WoW is like the laughing stock of the PvP community. Hell Warhammer is practically on life support and has more crowd control that any other game. I'd rather see Lineage 2 or maybe even Aion over WAR.
True, mileage may vary...
DaoC is a given, as its realm fighting is some of the most fun things in existance that has never been copied.
EVE, absolutly. Amazing PvP even to the point of completly destroying whole guilds and stealing all their possesions. Nothing can compare to that freedom.
Ultima Online... also a given. The first true PvP centered game and also with amazing freedom in both character creation and character freedom.
But... But... a few games springs to mind...
Planetside?! ONLY PvP and all about PvP? And some amazing PvP with vehicles and ariplanes as well? No...? Really?
Wait... World War II Online?! All PvP, only PvP on a scale map of the whole of Europe?! Oh yes, with vehicles, airplanes and antivehicle and antiairforce equipment? Complete and utter freedom? no...? not?
Or is this not about MMOs but about button skills instead of actual fighitng skills? Then I understand
And even if I disagree with WAR as Top anyhting PvP... I agree that Darkfall should be out. 5 fan bois not a right make.
I personally think this list is laughable and the very fact that you omit Darkfall from even being nominated reaffirms my belief that the people running this site are biased against it.
Darkfall is THE BEST PVP GAME, bar none.
It was THE BEST new game of 2009.
It was the most improved game of 2009.
Darkfall is offering one of the best MMORPG experiences currently.
Edit: The title should read, The Top 5 MMO's with Meaningless PvP, or Top 5 MMO's with Arena PvP.
I very respectfully disagree. If you want to know what the top PvP MMORPGs of all time are, you should look at the games the top PvP guilds flock to for serious competition. As someone who has played PvP MMOs and on PvP servers since the genre started, there are certain games that these guilds hold in high regards.
Ultima Online, Shadowbane, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call (Darktide), EVE Online, possibly Guild Wars or Lineage 2, and Darkfall.
I have played with and against some of the most prolific PvP guilds in the MMO genre, and believe me when I say Darkfall is a game where many of them have a presence for the last year. Whether you like the game or thinks its a piece of crap, doesn't matter. Whether the game has 11 million subscribers or 30,000 doesn't matter. The list shouldn't be based on sub numbers because PvP and hardcore PvP is a very niche part of the genre. Follow these guilds and you'll find the best PvP MMOs, and right now Darkfall is one of them. No game requires more situational awareness and personal skill at the controls in the genre than this one does, despite whatever other flaws there may be.
I have a question for you, did you bring enough of that DF Koolaid for everyone? You know I cannot comment on the PvP much in others games cause of this very quote, it was meaningless it seemed. EvE however being called Arena or Meaningless in it's PvP shows either a moron or someone that has never played EvE.
The PvP in Eve can go so far as to effect noob players at time in it's outcome. The entire game is PvP not just the combat but the economics as well.
And this is why I don't play Darkfall. The whining and complaining constantly from them in every single thread remotely related directly represent the community of Darkfall. Grow up or shut up.
Back on topic, interesting read and I mostly agree with the list.
Vanilla WoW is a classic and the first 6 months after release was epic in regards to open world pvp for me since I rarely felt safe as a wee lil' troll.
WAR is still quite fun to play every now and then as a freebie and offers insta pvp rather than most games requires mucho time invested to pvp with any substance. I like this mode greatly.
Ultima online was a game that actually made me nervous walking around by myself. Quite an achievement in and of itself.
DaoC is my number 1 pvp game, bar none.
I never played Eve, although I can't disagree with the OP since I never actually gave it a shot. I never had any interest in open space pvp or whatever it is.
lol EvE, UO, DAoC I can agree with but WoW and War definitely do not belong on that list lol.
DFO - One of the first MMO's to truly give that balls to the walls war. In the first month of DFO you had one large alliance attempting to conquer the whole of Agon which forced other alliances to form and wage war against them. There were ship battles, sieges, sneak attacks, traps, spies, espionage, sabotage, it was war and an epic one at that. The server war at DFO's launch is something that has never been seen in an MMO. Politics played a huge role, public opinion and support was something the major alliances fought for on a daily basis. Good will missions took place. The battles were truly bloody and epic. While you can say many things in regards to how bad DFO is, there is simply no denying what DFO has brought to the PvP MMO scene.
Aion - While some do not like Aion, there really isn't any denying that it has brought some of the fastest paced PvP to date into the PvP scene. While you are flying or even simply running on the ground the combat is very fast paced. Being a PvPvE MMO with flying are other unique things it brought to the table.
Shadowbane - One of the greats from ages past. Shadowbane laid the foundation for siege warfare. Some epic battles were had in Shadowbane and the mechanics made from some interesting options when you had beef with another guild. Shadowbane much like UO had a great deal of influence on the games we play today and without Shadowbane many of the great siege mechanics that many of us enjoy today would likely not exist.
WoW and War both fail in comparison to any of the above mentioned games. WoW and War both failed to deliver on one integral element in making a good or even decent PvP MMO. They failed on delivering a sense of purpose or meaning to it all. PvP'ing in those MMO's really did not make it feel as if it meant anything. You didn't feel like you had any impact on the world around you at all. You really didn't. The world and the community simply chugged along as if you never existed and what you had done never happened. Not to mention neither really brought much unique to the PvP scene. War while herald as a PvP MMO did bring some innovative things to the table in regards to PvE but failed really to deliver anything new or innovative in PvP. WoW's PvP faired no better and it's focus was always centered around "My gears better".
WoW and Wars PvP are compairable to Age of Conans and many others that simply never understood what PvP was about. Without ever grasping that concept you simply can not deliver. Not only is PvP about competition, its about making what you do have an impact on another. WoW, War and Age of Conan are prime examples of developers simply not understanding what it is that makes PvP worth doing. There has to be some trophy that you can take away from it all that has some meaning or value.
It's fun to compete with others, but it simply gets blah if theres nothing more to gain than the right to say I won this time... see you next time. There truly has to be something to compete over.
In Aion while it may not seem like it even there you are fighting over something. The Abyss is open to all, capturing a fort opens access to special recipes, stigmas, gear, etc. and not only that but your fighting for control over the land it'self. Hard to PvE in an area where the enemy race is killing you lol. So even Aion manages to give meaning to it all to some degree.
Why you would add MMO's that simply did PvP wrong on this list I have no idea. There are a slew of other MMO's that did things very well and or brought something new and unique to the table for PvP.
WoW and War simply did neither of these things. Nothing new to the PvP scene and they certainly did not manage to capture the essence of PvP.
Sad list. I dont disagree (because I dont pvp much), but the first 3 ranked games are old. Hey devs, look at that list and change it ;)
DF and sb blow wow away even with their shortcomings. Aion blows wow away. Aoc has better combat then wow. Planetside, wwII online.
I am sorry wow does a lot of things well but pvp is not among them.
Even the fact it is the largest mmo does not give it a right to be on this list.
Warhammer i guess it could fly maybe as #5
Not sure I could possibly disagree with you more. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on what makes good and bad PvP. Speaking for myself I enjoy the competition for the sake of it and I really wouldn't care if they ever handed me some pretty lil trophy for doing it. I also very much hate it when it turns into a big epeen or flamefest. So games like Warhammer, DaoC and others where you cannot talk to your enemies, sign me up.
Not saying you are wrong and I am right. Just saying you are wrong to automatically assume your version of what makes good PvP is the holy grail of all opinions and everyone else is wrong because they don't see it your way.
Well he said its his personal list of PVP games.
He probably never played Darkfall and Shadowbane.
In terms of best PVP game out its Darkfall, and will be for a long time (MO being designed more for RP supposedly).
Might aswell have Tabula Rasa at number one since everyones going to have there own opinion and say its wrong anyway...
That's a damn good point backed by some pretty solid reasoning. I think you hit the nail on the head, Paragus, when it comes to 'hardcore PvP' however the OP's list is PvP as a whole. In that light, it's really hard to come up with a Top 5 since WOW is probably number 1 at battlegrounds, DAOC is probably number 1 at realm vs realm, UO probably number 1 for solo and small group PvP, etc etc... Darkfall, EVE, WAR, Shadowbane... each one is a contender for number 1 in their particular type of PvP.
Forgot to say I agree with this so soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much.
Why when so many people agree the 3way war in DaoC was great has no one else done it?
Completely unrelated why when so many of us loved the original setup in SWG has no one else ever done something like that again?
Game companies are too busy watching each other and not innovating. Reminds me of our big three car companies here who completely lost touch with the consumer because they were too busy watching each other and worrying over and copying each other.
My list =p
1. Dark Age of Camelot
2. Eve
3. Planetside
4. Ultima Online
5. Star Wars Galaxies
Can't believe nobody mentioned Age of Conan. It has the best pvp combat out there, bar none.
In my humble opinion, WAR and WOW shouldn't even be mentioned up there
I agree the combat is good, but beyond that AoC's PvP was pretty lame when I played it. There's no real reason to do it beyond item rewards. Sort of like WoW. And WAR.
How can Darkfall not have made the list? Even massively.com rated it as the best PvP of 2009, nevermind top 5
AoC's combat was done better in Aion. Pace is just as fast, the "combos" are present but flying has been added and the whole PvPvE aspect as well. Combine this with the fact that there is no PvE server you end up with Aion > AoC in regards to PvP.
What little AoC did good Aion did better, then went further. AoC's biggest failing in regards to PvP was there was just no point in it. Aion also addressed this issue somewhat.
WoW? hahaha, as if ...
And i'm suprised GW isn't on the list, it has the most extensive PvP system i've came across
GW would have been another excellent choice for a Top 5 list.
I cant belive Lineage 2 is not on that list. The game is one of the few that was built around PVP and has real PVP that affects everything that happens in the game.
As I said earlier there were a slew of games that were more approriate for a top 5 PvP MMO list lol. L2 is another example. It had partial looting of players as well didn't it?
GW would have been another excellent choice for a Top 5 list.
No worries, Guild Wars 2 will have great pvp and will probably be only 2nd to Eve in that category.
No worries, Guild Wars 2 will have great pvp and will probably be only 2nd to Eve in that category.
Meh personally I am expecting GW2 to be a bit shallow PvP wise in comparison to GW. It sounds like it will be a much better PvE game though. Nothing wrong with that, it really seems hard now days for devs to do a MMO that does both PvE and PvP very well. One or the other seems to always be the focus. I am hoping GW2 surprises me though.
Warhammer had terrible PvP, the balances were crap, the bgs past tier 1 were terrible, open world pvp was weak. Truly shouldn't be on the list at all.
UO and DAoC were good choices, I think all my best pvp memories come from those two games.
This list is a sham with out Planetside. It is the only true PvPMMO out, the rest are just "Who has more numbers".
AoC's combat was done better in Aion. Pace is just as fast, the "combos" are present but flying has been added and the whole PvPvE aspect as well. Combine this with the fact that there is no PvE server you end up with Aion > AoC in regards to PvP.
What little AoC did good Aion did better, then went further. AoC's biggest failing in regards to PvP was there was just no point in it. Aion also addressed this issue somewhat.
I completely disagree, at least in regards to the combat. I much prefer AoC's combat to Aion.
For the best PvP game? To me it's without question Guild Wars. However, I did enjoy Warhammer's pvp as well.
Edit: forgot to mention Planetside as well, very well done pvp there as well
I have a question for you, did you bring enough of that DF Koolaid for everyone? You know I cannot comment on the PvP much in others games cause of this very quote, it was meaningless it seemed. EvE however being called Arena or Meaningless in it's PvP shows either a moron or someone that has never played EvE.
The PvP in Eve can go so far as to effect noob players at time in it's outcome. The entire game is PvP not just the combat but the economics as well.
Sorry, I was referring specifically about War and WoW. Arena PvP games need to go in another category.
Darkfall is the fantasy Ying to EvE's space yang.
I genuinely believe that WOW was included for shock value. Things have been relatively quiet on this site over the last couple of days. At least that's what I've noticed. This thread will surely increase the traffic around here.
If Darkfall can't be included in a "top five pvp mmo" contest on a site dedicated to mmos, then how seriously do you think this site will be taken? Maybe they have a beef with AV?
No skin off my ass though, in the end it's the credibility of the website that is damaged.
I completely disagree, at least in regards to the combat. I much prefer AoC's combat to Aion.
For the best PvP game? To me it's without question Guild Wars. However, I did enjoy Warhammer's pvp as well.
Edit: forgot to mention Planetside as well, very well done pvp there as well
There essentially the same combat system lol. AoC's is more like the rough draft and Aions is more like the final draft.
AoC to do a combo, you initiate the combo then hit the arrow sequence needed to complete the combo. Aion's chain system is essentially the same but instead of hitting arrows your choosing the next part of the combo. It's also a bit more fleshed out as even casters in Aion have chains where as only non casters in AoC have combo's.
Aions system allows for more on the fly customization. Do I use the dmg skill next in the chain or would it be better to use the stun? Should I slow them or debuff there defense?
A chain in Aion allows for a lot of versatility in how you use it. Age of Conan's combo system is a pretty linear thing. You have a stun move all it will do is stun.
To me Age of Conans is just to simplistic and results in the usual shot rotation style of play anyways. While it was innovative, it had a lot of room for improvement. Aion really has fleshed the idea out and improved on it turning it into something that results in a lot more than a rotation.
I mean seriously... Age of Conans combo system is basically DDR for your hands lol.
Where is Darkfall?
WOW is fifth? Lol
Fail
pool was pay
I completely disagree, at least in regards to the combat. I much prefer AoC's combat to Aion.
For the best PvP game? To me it's without question Guild Wars. However, I did enjoy Warhammer's pvp as well.
Edit: forgot to mention Planetside as well, very well done pvp there as well
There essentially the same combat system lol. AoC's is more like the rough draft and Aions is more like the final draft.
AoC to do a combo, you initiate the combo then hit the arrow sequence needed to complete the combo. Aion's chain system is essentially the same but instead of hitting arrows your choosing the next part of the combo. It's also a bit more fleshed out as even casters in Aion have chains where as only non casters in AoC have combo's.
Aions system allows for more on the fly customization. Do I use the dmg skill next in the chain or would it be better to use the stun? Should I slow them or debuff there defense?
A chain in Aion allows for a lot of versatility in how you use it. Age of Conan's combo system is a pretty linear thing. You have a stun move all it will do is stun.
To me Age of Conans is just to simplistic and results in the usual shot rotation style of play anyways. While it was innovative, it had a lot of room for improvement. Aion really has fleshed the idea out and improved on it turning it into something that results in a lot more than a rotation.
I mean seriously... Age of Conans combo system is basically DDR for your hands lol.
The combos are no way near similar. You weren't bothered by the animation root in Aion? It was a killer for me. Yes I adapted to it but I hated it. AoC's combat is a lot faster paced, I enjoy that. Aion felt like drudgery.
For those of you who laugh at wow being on the list, have you actually played the game within the first 2 years of its release? Yes i admit the pvp now in WoW is a complete joke. However back in the old days before the AQ patch even. I absolutely LOVED AV. i still remember 8 hour long battles in AV where neither side could see victory, just back and forth of pure slaughter. In my opinion, blizzard should make another server to just allow old gameplay and none of the new crap they put in the game.
There essentially the same combat system lol. AoC's is more like the rough draft and Aions is more like the final draft.
AoC to do a combo, you initiate the combo then hit the arrow sequence needed to complete the combo. Aion's chain system is essentially the same but instead of hitting arrows your choosing the next part of the combo. It's also a bit more fleshed out as even casters in Aion have chains where as only non casters in AoC have combo's.
Aions system allows for more on the fly customization. Do I use the dmg skill next in the chain or would it be better to use the stun? Should I slow them or debuff there defense?
A chain in Aion allows for a lot of versatility in how you use it. Age of Conan's combo system is a pretty linear thing. You have a stun move all it will do is stun.
To me Age of Conans is just to simplistic and results in the usual shot rotation style of play anyways. While it was innovative, it had a lot of room for improvement. Aion really has fleshed the idea out and improved on it turning it into something that results in a lot more than a rotation.
I mean seriously... Age of Conans combo system is basically DDR for your hands lol.
The combos are no way near similar. You weren't bothered by the animation root in Aion? It was a killer for me. Yes I adapted to it but I hated it. AoC's combat is a lot faster paced, I enjoy that. Aion felt like drudgery.
You mean like how casters are rooted while casting in Age of Conan? Nah doesn't bother me as it isn't on every skill only those that have long animations and thats generally only noticeable with the slow 2 handed weapons. Combat in general is a lot faster paced in Aion because while your waiting on your combo to come off of cooldown I can be doing a second chain with the same starter. In AoC I ran into a lot of situation where I would have to manage my cooldowns carefully or end up relying on auto attack until ones ready. The same isn't true in Aion for very long. You can pretty much sit there and fire off ability after ability the whole fight without having to wait on cooldowns. So it looks like we will simply have to agree to disagree. You find Aion slow in comparison, I find AoC slow in comparison.
What you guys have to realize is this is a subjective list, not a factual list.
This is the top 5 games that this columnist had the best experiences in or respected the most. If you think that Darkfall or Planetside should be the end all be all PVP game there ever is and get that recognition, then make your own website and put that opinion on it.
Don't complain about other people's opinions, because it's useless. It's like arguing whether a cloud looks like a rabbit or a train, it just depends on how you look at it.
No Planetside either? wtf
Anyone that thinks Aion is a great pvp game is really out of their mind... Aion pvp is nothing more than the old crap WoW honor system that rewards more playtime, bigger zergs etc. Fortress sieges are nothing but a race to kill a pve mob, I mean hell you can even farm pve mobs to get pvp gear? WTF?
Lineage 2 was a better pvp game than Aion hands down, castle sieges actually meant something. The game promoted a lot of clan v clan wars and alliance v alliance wars.
Guild Wars was a better pvp game than Aion also, I just picked these two games since they are both NCsoft titles.
I totally agree. The fact that an incredibly bland game like WAR can appear on a top 5 pvp mmo list goes to show how lacking mmos are for decent pvp games. WoW isnt even a pvp game and it gets a place........and Ultima Online is 10 years old. Then again I knew the list was going to be terrible before I even clicked on the link.
This article simply proves that we need more pvp based mmos. Hopefully this will change in 2010
Honestly, the only reason I'd even say WoW should be on that list is the older version of Alterac Valley. It turned what was just a pvp instanced map into a real war-zone. It was actual warfare instead of the horrid zerg it is today. You had to collect drops, save people, and struggle to gain the upperhand. If you were lucky, you could unleash hell with the uber summons that both side had. If you managed to drop them? Got some nice gear then. If not? Well its a train speeding right towards your main base, and no brakes attached.
As for today, PvP is the number one reason why several classes got gimped in PvE in WoW. Ret pallies got nerfed to hell and back because they were working as intended according to GC, Death Knights had cooldowns smacked around because they lowered damage taken. If this was a top 10 list, sure, give WoW a position for what it once was, maybe near 9 or so, but 5? No. Darkfall deserves a spot on this list, even if its a 5.
before anyone says anything, I do play WoW, I haven't played Darkfall. If they had a trial system I'd give the game a go.
Yes I played WoW and no I didn't like it lol. You spent 8 hours in a PvP match to get what? And how does that compare to a 2 month+ long war that was waged in DFO where one large alliance was attempting to take control of the game world by conquering it? Where politicians mattered, crafters mattered, soldiers mattered, spies mattered, sabotage mattered, recruiters mattered, strategists and tacticians mattered, economists mattered, salesmen mattered, peons mattered, public speakers and public image mattered?
While you can talk about an 8 hour PvP match I will talk about the months long war that was waged on land and on sea, where many cities were destroyed, many clans crushed and assimalated or disbanded, where gaining the favor of the public was important, were hundreds of players were clashing blades and firing canons in all corners of the world, where multi prong attacks to divide and conquer your foes was a tactic commonly used. Where flanking the enemy wasn't some skill you bought from the trainer but something you actually had to do.
I mean your saying those that scoff at WoW just don't know, but what you don't realize is the reason we are scoffing is because you and some others just don't know lol.
I'm glad you enjoyed your 8 hour long arena fight... but understand why I view that as something meh. It just doesn't compaire to a virtual War. I mean for the first time in the history of MMO's the Goons were on the side of good lol. They had to be or they too would have been swept under the might of Hyperion. They rose to the challenge though and led the charge against Hyperion.
Your saying don't bash WoW I had a great 8 hour arena fight once, while I'm sitting here wondering why that arena was even considered PvP due to the experiences I've had in many games.
In UO we regularly had 100+ vs. 100+ wars, granted they weren't as epic as DFO's, but they were still epic. In Shadowbane War was waged, not some little "Haa Haa I pwn'd you in an arena". Were talking large scale battles that actually can only be reffered to as Epic.
I mean thats like calling a VW Bug one of the best trucks on the market... sure it has an engine, wheels, doors and even runs on gas, but it isn't a truck. You can haul groceries in it, but your not going to be hauling building materials around in it.
Darkfall fans attacking the article and preaching the awesomeness of DF is about as surprising as this:
I agree with the list. Might switch the order of #4 and #5, or kick WoW out and put WAR in #5 and Shadowbane/Planetside/whatever in #4. But #3, #2, and #1, I agree with.
Want to know a little Secret? I don't play DFO anymore I'm an Aion fan :P
I quit DFO when Aventurine decided to try and charge NA players twice for the same game, regardless of stating at the time of purchase that players would be able to create 1 toon per server and told all the NA players that they were welcome to play on EU launch and that they would be able to transfer or start a new char on the NA servers when it launched.
So... unless Aventurine gives control of DFO over to another company I won't be playing again. Aventurine sucks, big time.
But that doesn't change facts, DFO is sadly one of the best PvP MMO's out.
Edited to Add: Heres another funny little side not, I think FE is crap... but I herald it as having one of the best crafting systems ever in an MMO.
In a nutshell this sums it up for me.
To those that say it's their site, and their opinion, fair enough. But I personally believe that a site as popular as this, should be a little more responsible when doing top5 or top10 lists. It is amazingly foolish to put WOW on a list like that. And yes I played WOW shortly after launch, but I still do not agree at all.
Do you think I'll be clicking on another thread like this on this site? No way. It wouldn't matter anymore to me. I'm sure I'm not alone.
uhhh... GUILD WARS should have been in there amongst top 3 definetly... the only PvP that I played that requires skill and not button bashing which seems like thats what u posted here... exept for EVE....
I liked the old 8 hour AVs but it is still instanced PvP with no consequences upon death.
Sigh, no one reads I guess, from the OP:
"Keep in mind that this list is my own, and your mileage may vary, but here then are my top five PvP MMOs."
Note, it is not the offcial MMORPG Top 5 PVP games list, he doesn't say he's played every PVP game out there, so maybe he didn't experience Shadowbane or Planetside. (I missed the latter one)
This is his opinion, and like another poster said, some PVP games are better at one thing (full loot, FFA combat) vs a more controlled, balanced PVP environment (i.e. WOW arenas and BG's)
We all have our preferences on how we like our PVP, and none of us would ever come up with the same top 5 PVP game list.
Myself, I would have left WAR off, but I'm sure there's many WAR players who would disagree with my choice.
But of course, since the OP said EVE was #!1, I'm in complete agreement with him.
It also doesn't exist anymore. Probably why it's not there, you think?
Not a bad list in my opinion, but still i'm very suprised that Guild Wars isn't on the list, well of course in Guild Wars it's not about the gear or numbers you have, but the skill so it would become also an odd one in the list.
Yeah I read that, if he had put it in the title of the article it would have been better received. Instead he stuck in inside the article and wrote the title to read "The Top 5 PvP MMO's" which does over ride any disclaimer inside the article considering it should be a known fact that the majority will read the title then skim through the rest of the article.
A better received title would have been "My Top 5 PvP MMO's" or something similar.
I'm surprised that there has been no mention of Darktide on AC; a classic open pvp world. Not that I played it much, but it the type of pvp that many are always clammoring for. Its funny how those that are always begging for *real* pvp, don't continue to support a game that provides it after all the easy-to-kill players have been driven off. Its no wonder that there aren't that many pvp only mmos that survive.
Not a bad list. Obviously there will be some people who had an amazing experience in games that haven't been listed such as darkfall and aoc, but I don't think it discounts the relevance of the writer's top 5. Honestly, for that "type" of gameplay, the FPS Pirates, Vikings and Knights blows it away in every aspect except the fact you don't have to level up or anything.
And, I'm one of the people who don't believe WoW is a "great" pvp game however, it has international tournaments -- so it'd be absolutely retarded not to include it. And as dumbed down the overrall pvp is in it, the small scale arena matches are great and the fluidity is unmatched.
Funny list! This was definitely not written by any PvPer that I've ever known.
Ken
how the heck could you not have planetside on the list?? heck how can it not be #1 or #2. It was/is a great game and it's all PvP, with epic scale battles.
Nice article OP, although I disagree for the most part with your list.
I would certainly not have WAR on there as I find the PvP in that game horrible, and WoW only had "good" PvP back before Battlegrounds came out.
Ultima Online - absolutely
Dark Age of Camelot - absolutely
EvE Online - probably yes
However, I think you're missing some very important ones: Shadowbane, Planetside, and in my opinion the MMO with the best PvP by far: Darkfall.
Either way, we're entitled to our opinions and you have yours, so I'll have to respectfully disagree.
LOL, while i know you clearly stated that this is your list and my mileage may vary, i have never before been unable to find one in a list that i could agree with.
wow, lol, and i cant stop loling. nub mmo nub pvp, nub nub nub. it is shameful that this game still gets press of any kind and i avoid grouping with ppl in other games who make it known that they have played this one. those who state proudly tht they ruled in wow are extra fail when they come play competitive pvp games. this game is a marketing success, not a gameplay success. i dont hate blizzard, i think its great that they introduced millions to online gameplay. but this is not for gamers.
warhammer...really?
ultima online? i have more fun playing ultima's 1-6 [and i actually still do when i feel nostalgic about stealing goods from behind npc vendors and getting greedy to the point the guards come and pwn me] than i ever did in this online adaptation
daoc, cough, excuse me i just threw up in my mouth. i had a fun 30 minutes in daoc one day
eve online...while i dont especially hate anything about eve, its pvp didnt really engage me, nor the rest of the game for that matter.
your mention of UO being your first leads me to assume u've been around the mmo block a few times so it saddens me that these were your choices
The only game on the list that should actually be there is EvE online. I can't believe there's no mentioning of L2 and Darkfall either.
Asherons Call 1 on the Darktide server was the best FFA PvP experience in any MMORPG, period. The fact that you havent got that on your list shows that you are fairly new to PvP in MMORPGs.
Also, Eve may be a good FFA PvP game but I did alot more PvP in WAR than I do in Eve, and I live in 0.0 space. Reason? The death penalty in the game is so high that the game is more about ganking than just straight up PvP. Rarely do you get even remotely even fights or fights where both parties actually want to fight. So it is very bad to encourage new people that likes to do PvP in MMORPGs to Eve, the game is only for the nische people of the PvP crowd. Mostly the ones that likes extreme death penalties and assymetrical warfare (i.e. uneven fights).
I am fine with the list ... except, Warhammer ... its doesn't belong anywhere remotely close to the top five. And I speak as someone who waited years for that game, beta'd it, and hung in there with it for 9 grueling months. Mythic totally dropped the ball with that game, and are incapable, or unwilling to save it.
They should have just remade DAoC with a new engine and updated graphics, and they would have had a number 1 hit on their hands.
My apologies to Darkfall fans ... I've never played that game, so I can't comment.
DAoC was my favorite MMO, also my first. Great game all around, not just in PvP either. The community was the best.
But I think WWII Online should be on that list ;) It's only PvP hehe. That's the other game I can never put down.
I think SWG before the NGE should be number one but I agree DAoC should be number two, I haven't ever played EVE though
Do us a favor and never write a list again.
No Darkfall?
No Shadowbane?
No Asheron's Call?
Gtfo...
Good call on DAoC.
Bad call on WoW and WAR.
No Darkfall, really? Really?
Asheron's Call, wasn't a PvP game, just had a PvP server, so good call on that.
Shadowbane was a miserable failure, despite having some interesting ideas. So good call on that.
But Darkfall?
What does that mean that Asherons Call wasnt a PvP game just had a PvP server? WoW is not a PvP game either then, neither is DAoC since the PvP was restricted to certain areas on the PvE servers.
Asherons Call on the PvP server Darktide, was the best FFA PvP game ever made.
And Darkfall is a POS MMORPG. The game was released, buggy as hell, has an outdated GFX engine and terrible sound and also had a very small playerbase (and still has). Also the PvP combat was crap with little variation. So that game does not belong on any top list.
Hey folks,
As others have said, this is purely a list of MY OWN favorite games that had PvP in them. I'm betting plenty of the staff at MMORPG.com would have their own different top 5 too. But yep, these are the best times I've had PvP-ing myself. To those who wish their game was on the list (Shadowbane, Darkfall, Planetside, etc.), I've played a LOT of these games over the years but I only felt comfortable listing those games I spent enough time in. I played Planetside a bit, but never Shadowbane, and not Darkfall (yet).
Hope that helps ease some of the tension or confusion at my list, and you're still totally free to completely disagree with me. :)
There you have it folks, the voice of reason has spoken. We can all go home now. And as an added plus, I now know that I like POS games, thanks for the heads up.
What does that mean that Asherons Call wasnt a PvP game just had a PvP server? WoW is not a PvP game either then, neither is DAoC since the PvP was restricted to certain areas on the PvE servers.
Asherons Call on the PvP server Darktide, was the best FFA PvP game ever made.
And Darkfall is a POS MMORPG. The game was released, buggy as hell, has an outdated GFX engine and terrible sound and also had a very small playerbase (and still has). Also the PvP combat was crap with little variation. So that game does not belong on any top list.
You just lost all credibility with that opinion.
What does that mean that Asherons Call wasnt a PvP game just had a PvP server? WoW is not a PvP game either then, neither is DAoC since the PvP was restricted to certain areas on the PvE servers.
Asherons Call on the PvP server Darktide, was the best FFA PvP game ever made.
And Darkfall is a POS MMORPG. The game was released, buggy as hell, has an outdated GFX engine and terrible sound and also had a very small playerbase (and still has). Also the PvP combat was crap with little variation. So that game does not belong on any top list.
Your opinion I guess.
Also, yes, DAoC is a PvP game, the entire game revolved around the fighting between realms, that's through and through a PvP game, it was the main focus.
As for Darktide... that's one server. Every MMORPG has a FFA server, guess we should just could every MMORPG ever as the best FFA PvP?
Asheron's Call was a PvE focused game, with a small niche of people playing on a PvP server. Same story as EQ, DAoC, and Vanguard. All the same stuff.
Darkfall, however, like DAoC, the entire game revolves around the fighting between realms and clans, and has far far more advanced combat and PvP systems than most games on this list. Have your little hissy fit about a game you haven't played all you want, but know that you're off base.
This occurred some time ago I'm afraid.
haha follow your own logic there big boy "so good call on that"
If you only counted MMOs that said they were PvP MMOs you wouldn't even get a top 5 - Every MMO that were designed only for PvP are miserable failures. Asheron's Call DT had the perfect mix and yet even more dangerous and bloodthirsty than EVE with its "high-sec" protection.
How is DAoC somehow more of a PvP game when the real battles don't even start until max level? Somehow having FFA from level 1 doesn't qualify? You're delusional.
Neither Darkfall, AC-DT or Shadowbane are on this list.
WoW is on this list, a game where pvp is a imbalanced sideshow attraction.
FAILURE.
I can see why WAR would make the list for one reason. Its the only game I can think of that lets you progress through PVP and strictly PVP. It did a lot wrong in terms of repetative gameplay. However it did bring PVP to the forefront without hiding it under other features, IMO even EVE does this. Darkfall is one of the only games I can think of besides WAR that takes this form of approach to PVP. Why are devs ashamed to make PVP games?
haha follow your own logic there big boy "so good call on that"
If you only counted MMOs that said they were PvP MMOs you wouldn't even get a top 5 - Every MMO that were designed only for PvP are miserable failures. Asheron's Call DT had the perfect mix and yet even more dangerous and bloodthirsty than EVE with its "high-sec" protection.
How is DAoC somehow more of a PvP game when the real battles don't even start until max level? Somehow having FFA from level 1 doesn't qualify? You're delusional.
DAoC had 3 PvP servers. So I guess that makes it 3x more awesome than Darktide, Nice try.
Would have had WWII Online on my list of top PvP games. In fact, it would be at THE top of my list. PvP based entirely on the individual player's real life skills -- none of the bs gear/level/trait dependencies of most PvP games.
That's another one I've never had the pleasure of diving into. I always see it mentioned, and then when I go to find something new it evades me. I think I've got to write it somewhere and stick it to my monitor for the next time I want to go game-hopping.
Liked it or not, WoW has multiple ways to PvP and tons of people love it.
I agree with the list though I always found Eve pvp bland. 0.0 is 24/7 zergfest and higher sec duels are just watching two ships do merry go around while exchanging colorful rays of light.
Eve has great forum pvp too. One corp throws a taunt "Corp this and this EXPLOITS!!" and the alliance of the taunted party attacks the corp with direct damage while the taunter gets buffed by backpattings from their alliance. This drama-pvp usually ends in mod deleting half the forum in response which then ends to "EVE MOD XXX IS IN CORP XXX's PAYROLL!!!" post in the taunter corps forum.
I agree with some games, i cannot do it with other but i'm really astonished about 5th position: World of Farmercraft? This is not a true PvP or RvR game, it's only a PvE title with some PvP servers where people doesn't do free PvP. If you really like PvP there are a lot of games better than WoW (one of my preferred is a F2P game: RF Online: Three realms, a lot of free RvRvR zones - all mid/high lvls zones are RvRvR and a crap reason in order to do PvP /RvRvR: central mine And, yes, a lot of fun).
And my number one is still DAoC (EVE is great, but too hard to play for a newbie).
I like when you said EVE is your least fun to play and you put it at number one and how you've had the most memorable PVP memories in WoW and put it at number five.........
Editorial quality will always suck here.
I've played every mmorpg out there and WoW is the only one to have fun combat. It is the most popular and lots of people have fun with PVP in the game and level up purely to do PVP and it's because it is the best. If these other games were so great then they'd be more popular but the fact is they aren't. Warhammer Online for example has a horrible combat system and it just doesn't flow and it ain't popular because of that.
For me combat makes PVP and WoW by far has the best combat, just a shame the killed World PVP.
Would like to see 2 categories.
One for open world PVP where more time means more powerfull toon.
One for arena based PVP.
Meh, nvm. I only consider Guild Wars to be a true PVP game. The only MMORPG I know of that offers PVP on a levelled playing field. The others dont prove a challange, because you only have to get part of the larger group and get better gear. That completely washes out any opposing playerskill.
I agree with you about the appeal of level playing field PvP, although it's fun to be able to vary it a bit. Winning as the underdog (and losing as the favorite) are part of gaming also. I may be the only guy here to have played it, but the ship combat and Port Battle systems in Pirates of the Burning Sea consistently generate great PvP (well, and ganks and crap, too, but still) that is RvR-relevant. People I spoke to who played both said Pirates came in a close second to GW in PvP.
I get the appeal to others of full-world, or realm, or FFA or whatever other type of extended PvP, but it's not my cup of tea. I like to have good fights more than I like to win. I also think that over-penalizing PvP is regressive, and the penalty is grind (of some kind or another). As for the objection to "Arena PvP" - hey, gimme a break. It's ALL Arena PvP, we're just arguing over where the arena walls are.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
The fact that darkfall was not on this list has made me lose faith in MMORPG.com.
I will most likely never come back to this site again.
pretty good list! I would put shadowbane or lineage 2 in over WOW though. If you want to give the wow style of PVP some love then at least go with EQ2, which allows people to go rogue and kill anyone they want no matter which faction.
L2 was actually my number 6, as I did play it before WoW... maybe I should have opened the list to 10 so not as many people would be upset with me? :)
Thanks for yet another entertaining "list".
Even though I don't entirely agree with some of the choices, I can hardly sit here with a straight face and, with any seriousness, tell you that your personal choices are entirely wrong and have no place in an opinion piece.
Anyway, the subject alone promised a quick and dirty derailment from the word go. No amount of indemnification on the OP's part would have changed that.
I actually really enjoyed WAR's RvR despite the clunkiness of its early days. A lot of this list is fueled by personal preference and experience nostalgia, while still other parts are fueled by game mechanics and the communities that drive the PvP. I hear Darkfall has a fantastic PvP community, but I've not had the chance to play it yet. I hear the UO comparison a lot with Aventurine's game, so one day with time and money I'm going to have to check it out.
I've seen some awful top XX lists on this website, but this one takes the cake.
Here's a better list:
1. Shadowbane
2. AC - DT
3. EVE
4. UO
5. DAOC
3-5 could really be in any order, but the best 2 PvP games of all time weren't even included in this POS list. It makes me wonder how old the writer is.
I know the list was a personal opinion.....but NO Darkfall?? C´mon!
The wole game is designed around old school FFAPvP. And WoW beats it in a PvP list???
For people not understanding, what if Darkfall would beat WoW in a quest content list? Then would also sit wit open mounths and wonder what the hell just happend.
I cannot comment on the other games but I find PVP in EVE done well. In eve there is nowhere that pvp cannot occur.
One game I would have on my own list for PVP is SFC2:OP If you have played it on the dynaverse you will know what I mean by PVP. If you havent then explaining it would be cumbersome. But long and short
- 3v3 duels possible in instanced area
- up to 16 factions can vie for control of the galaxy
- pvp and pve events change status of sectors of space
- have fought duels that last hours
- I have yet to see another pvp game that has the options in combat and teamwork that SFC has
I genuinely believe that WOW was included for shock value. Things have been relatively quiet on this site over the last couple of days. At least that's what I've noticed. This thread will surely increase the traffic around here.
If Darkfall can't be included in a "top five pvp mmo" contest on a site dedicated to mmos, then how seriously do you think this site will be taken? Maybe they have a beef with AV?
No skin off my ass though, in the end it's the credibility of the website that is damaged.
It's true that if someone new to the mmorpgs was looking for a PvP game and looked at this list, he would be misleaded. Not mentionning planetside (since he also talks about oldies) wwiionline, darkfall or guildwars in this kind of frontpage list is really strange.
It's like listing the best electronic music groups and forgetting to mention "Justice" or "Daft Punk" and publishing the list on the rolling stones magazine website (or whatever). "But I've never listenened to those groups before" is not an excuse.
No Planetside? o_o
Sure I can get the reason people would jump to games like Darkfall for example of PvP. But I'd have to vote Planetside to be one of the best if not the one if only for the fact that PvP is all they do, and they do it hard.
I mean seriously, the game lacks in just about all other ways, but the plethora of weapons, vehicles, gadgets, and the extra abilities, items, and tools they've added since launch, in addition to it being a three way war (occasionally four) with unique options given to each faction to differentiate one another without being overwhelming or imbalanced, makes Planetside a little slice of PvP combat heaven unrivaled for the most part by even most modern shooters.
Yes, there is in fact things I still think Planetside did better than even Modern Warfare 2, the upcoming Bad Company 2, or any other modern shooter for that matter.
What Planetside did was make one of the first, largest, and nonstop glorious tactical frag fest any proper PvP fan can only beg for more of.
Which is also why I'm still waiting for them to make a friggin' Planetside 2!
EDIT: I also agree that Asheron's Call should be here, even if just for the Dark Tide server. Nothing quite like dodging volley after volley of spells and arrows as I chased down people with my life dagger like a lunatic.
Same regard really for the servers in DAoC too. You don't know PvP until anyone and everyone you meet is both equally likely to help you and kill you at any given moment. If some one wants to include DFO, then they really should be putting up AC on there, because they nailed all the reasons DFO works as a PvP mmo, ten years before, and offering a whole host more of things to do in the process.
It's your 1st post in 6 years ? .... I'm not the smaller poster of mmorpg.com after all.
As much as i enjoyed pvping in WoW, i dont consider it a pvp game. I also dont think War should be on that list. Shadowbane needs to be on there somewhere even if it was a train wreck of a game.
I liked the old 8 hour AVs but it is still instanced PvP with no consequences upon death.
Two very good points, some peoples like PvP with no consequences, they want to kill real players for fun and rewards but dont want to loose their gears ect.. and on the other side, some people like to play PvP with the stress factor to loose everything and that's their fun.
We have to respect that and the list, I believe, should have reflect those differences by including DFO.
William Murphy you fail on your list, were is Shadowbane and Darkfall? I guess there just to hardcore for you.
i can understand shadowbane but no DAOC. Suprised WoW made it but i guess I can see it at number 5. War really doesn't belong on the list but the top 3 makes sense at least.
Darkfall isn't very good. Thats why it isn't on the list but shadowbane or daoc should be.
I believe the writer has already stated that he has not tried Darkfall. I'm sorry you don't think it's very good, but thanks for letting us all know.
darkfall vs sb
Shadowbanes classs ystem far surpased darkfalls really crude skill system. lots of combos.
The grind in SB was perfect for a pvp mmo.
Sbs point in click combat vs df real time.
DF world is far better
Both have rather shitty pve but df i think is generally better.
DF is smart not to have flying classes
DF siege mechanics are alot better. You don't spend a month building something only to have it destroyed in one night.
DF had shitload less bugs
SB had a lot better lore.
all i can think of right now at work
Darkfall isn't very good. Thats why it isn't on the list but shadowbane or daoc should be.
Take the nostalgia away people have with SB. Darkfall i think wins out. Only by a little. But still df is far more solid of a game, even with its short comings.
I agree with the placement of #3, #2 and #1. (Ultima, Dark age, and Most definately Eve.)
Agree with Ultima because everything you did pretty much revolved around PvP and whatever roles you decided to take in-game. Open world. It was fun...10 years ago lol. Good times.
Agree with Dark Age of Camelot. All about the Realm pride and giving your all for the benefit of your realm! :P
And the one I agree most with is Eve being #1 in terms of being a PvP Structured game. Everything revolves around PvP, Wormhole safety, Player owned Stations, What ship class you will train, Fleet formations, Corporation owned Systems, Corporation War Declarations, Alliances, Ore/Minerals...hell, even the market revolves around PvP... Current Example going on now is that a specific type of mining ship is being hunted and destroyed, this is driving the market price for that mining ship higher and higher. The corporation behind that will probably benefit greatly from it now seeing as they probably manufactured many of them. There's also the Zephyr Blitz that's going on... *Not gonna take his Zephyr out of station* >:3
As for Wow and War, I don't believe they should make the list because PvP doesn't really do anything important except give you extra items and on occasion, bragging rights...Which doesn't mean much when most of the server acts like 13 year old asswipes. PvP in war was fun though, and like OP said, kinda diminished as you got farther :(.
I also agree with the rest of the forum, Darkfall definately was a good contender for PvP with it's free skill choices and modifications. I never played it but the way it handled PvP and how much of a core concept it was to the game would have made it a great contender.
Guild Wars too... if you could find a good team that knew what it was doing... *Nightmares*
Lineage 2 is a good one. I never got far in that game, don't remember why but I do recall working in a small team for some PvP, then for some PvE after. Its was interesting.
Not sure if anyone mentioned FFXI, although not heavy in PvP, the alliance that does win in that area gets extra minor bonuses and its downright fun in many reguards if you played your class correctly AS A TEAM D:! (kept in balance by making it slightly harder to win next time but it is possible)
Like the OP said, its their opinion. OP's top 5. Not DEFINATE TOP 5 OF ALL TIME...FACT! Lol. Its funny how serious some of you took it. Thank you for your time :P
Edit: Wish I could say something about Shadowbane. never played it D:!
"Say what you will about WAR’s failings, unmet potential and corporate controversy, but no one can deny that what WAR does right it does well."
WAR does little or nothing right.
No Darkfall? This list is complete fail.
Just a couple things Bill:
1. EVE does NOT run on a single server, certainly not physical & not logical in practice either (that's why you zone from system to system). It's about as single-server as GW & I prefer the way that handles 'zones' much better anyway (districts + international servers where you can all meet if you so choose).
2. the correct quote, if people must quote the Bible, is "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil".
Your "WOW!" example for EVE is also the best example of what a sociopathic mmo with very little real consequence for your crimes is like. Red-headed stepchildren running around ganking the weaker players with impunity. Yeah, sure, call us carebears, whatever. EVE is not the best, but rather the WORST example of how a mmo should handle its PvP. Just a whole lot of asshats trying to ruin everyone else's day (if you're in the 5% minority trying to just play an empire building game with some modicum of 'honour', I obviously don't mean you, but my apologies anyway. Good luck with the crushing disappointment when you realise just what EVE is & you leave with the taste of skunk in your mouth :). Game over.
Whats with all the Crap P2P games
Best PvP game ever in my opinion is RF Online. Three races going for it on mass three times a day plus raids, defense 24/7 thats PvP imo.
also Guildwars has awesome PvP while limited areas it still flogs most P2P games with it GvG.
What a horrible list the only game worthy of being on it is EVE...Clearly you are not a PvPer and should not be making this sort of list...games where u piss off the wrong ppl means you cant play anymore(like Lineage 1 and 2) should be on it also considering they have more players then all but WoW. really MMORPG has been going down hill recently with late info on games and horrible lists...it's sad to see.
Darkfall online should be on the list as well. It may be not the greatest one, like EVE which is first place no doubt, Darkfall is very much about pvp and its good, harsh, adrenalin experience.
regards
Number 2, darkfall online
Number 1, Even online
Fixed
This
I was up with the list until I saw Shadowbane passed over for WAR?!
AFAIK, Shadowbane was one of the first MMOs to have massive world driven PvP. And by world drive I mean world driven, there was like no point to PvE other than to get your toon to max level and gear, after that you were in pvp-bliss. You fought, took control of or defended sections of terrority where your guild or alliance of guilds (nations) built massive cities, and you could plan your city. Want more defense at the expense of space and less NPC vendors? Go for it. Want more NPC guards and less physical defense? Go for it. Massive battles of laying siege to cities, hundreds of trebuchets firing off flaming boulders at city walls whilst the enemy comes pouring over the side of a hill..
It was the perfect MMO. Sure it didn't have 100% loot like DF or UO but it was pretty close. And the class/race system was the BEST I saw, ever. Why?
You had a shit ton of combos. Want a big meaty Minotaur melee? Make it. How about a human thief? Make it. Human Mage? Go for it. Dwarf priest? Suuuure. And like every build had POTENTIAL. Sure there were cookie cutter specs, but you had room to experiment, come up with something different and come to find out it could still work pretty good in pvp.
The entire servers were ran by guild politics too. Who controlled what, who took over what. It truly was live by the sword die by the sword style of playing, no gm's, no rules (other than obviously no hacking), you couldnt go crying to a GM if someone was spawn camping you or griefing you. IT WAS ENCOURAGED
And yea, it had some bugs and issues but even after the game went free, they were still ironing out bugs, fixing stuff and even adding to the game. Sadly, Ubisoft had to pull the plug :(
Heres to hoping Stray Bullet Games (were a lot of the developers of Shadowbanes dev team Wolfpack have formed) comes up with their next great pvp mmo
PLAY TO CRUSH!
In terms of how wide spread PvP affects the Eve universe. Its #1. I would also have it as #1 for all of it's complexity and teamwork required.
As for your #1 point, they say it does. Hard to imagine, I too have my doubts, but there is no solid proof to say against it. Its a bunch of nodes working together to produce one ongoing server or something like that. Although, What -is- true is that what you do may affect others several systems/zones/whateveryoucallit away. Especially the market. :) kekeke ...unless your a teeny tiny miner who logs in for 1 hour each day or a high sec("Safe" Zone) mission grinder. Eww. (Although I am quite annoyed at the amount of lag that has risen from the new expansion, hope it gets fixed. Soon.)
As for your #2. The only good side of your post(not the argument though...), even if your being picky. Good catch to correct the saying to where it's origin came from. Although hes probably just quoting the colloquial term we all would know (Silly masses. Stop catering to them and go learn yourselves a book :D *sarcasm off*)
As for your "Lol @ WOW example". There is no way he could know of every little PvP occurance going on in Eve... That would be like summing up everything that happens in DAoC, Darkfall, or Ultima with a small short paragraph people wont tl;dr (impossible). He chose one of the largest "backstabs" ever done in the game (hell...It even got news coverage XD) as an example. (Albeit a good example for the general mass because of it's publicity, not a good example for the every day of Eve.) Anything else would be too minor or would experience rattling Eve jargon many wouldn't understand without crappy explanations)
Still, nothing in your argument about PvP. Just a bunch of whining, cheap shots and slight racism. (in-before-welcome-to-the-internet!) Sorry dude :P
People should be posting their own personal top 5 in this thread instead of whining.
5. Aion
4. Age of Conan
3. World of Warcraft
2. Dark Age of Camelot
1. Lineage 2
No, it's not fixed. It's YOUR personal opinion.
As my personal opinion would still have #1 EVE, even though I've stopped playing, but I know how big it is. And my #2 would still be DAoC because it was, and still is monumental unrivalved fantasy fun.
One thing I was/am baffled about is WAR being there. On paper it might make it in to the top 5, but it certainly fails to step up in reality.
Again, personal opinion.
Oh and, die treehuggers!
Sure is a lot of complaining about Warhammer in this list. It was my 2nd most enjoyable pvp experience, right after Guild Wars.
I've played every mmorpg out there and WoW is the only one to have fun combat.
Highly doubt that, sorry bub. PvP in WoW is just far too limited compared to all the other games listed so far.
Here is my own personall list based on games i have played.
1. EvE online - its main focuss is on all forms of pvp be it 1v1 1v10 1000v1000 or even 1vmarket. Also this is the most developed pvp mmo with 6 years of content and treaking and ballancing. and best of all a newbie could expect to compete very quickly. And being on a SINGLE node based server means you cant hide your past as well [ so if you are a ganker and guild thief for example you will be found out if your guild leader checks up on your past via the employment history tab].
2. RF Online - not completly a pvp focussed game it did need you to pve in order to compete in pvp. It does however have a nice and fun risk free pvp system with effects on the wider world.
3. DAOC - a bit of a classic here need i say more?
4. Neocron - now i personally hate this game but it was pvp based. also your Avatars stats was not as big an issue as can be found in level based games, it had factions and it had a consiquence to death.
5. Darkfall - it is still undeveloped the graphics and animation is average at best. they have billing problems and it has a problem with its communit. But.....it is a pvp foccused game [probably more due to dev resources than by design] with player made factions with cities. Sadly tho its skill system is flawed [eve tried the same system where you leveled skills by using them but it was to easy to abuse].
Some herethat were mentioned but not on my list and why.
Shadowbane - True it had pvp but it no longer exists.
WoW - great pve focussed game easy to get into but its pvp was an afterthought and it shows [still who knows this may one day get fixed].
Guildwars - not a MMORPG as ITS stated by the games devs its a CORPG. and this is a list of MMO'S
lol, guess people haven't tried the new WoW Battlegrounds with mounted tanks and other cool stuff. And Alterac Valley is fun as hell. There is a lot of PvP in WoW that comes in different forms. What Darkfall has to offer? A possible gank right at the beginning and a barren boring world that has PvP once in a blue moon.
lol you writers at mmorpg.com really shouldnt bother writing lists. It always ends up with what we have here, pages and pages of people chest beating about why their favourite game isnt on the list.
LMAO!!! Warhammer, WoW? hahaha...
Top 5 pvp Game.
1: Asheron's Call.
2: Dark Age of camelot
3: Shadowbane
4: Mortal Online ( yet im in beta!)
5: Darkfall.
Top 10..
6: Ultima Online
7: Everquest ( Rallos Zek server)
8: Age of Conan
9: WoW
10: Lord of the ring Online/ Warhammer
It show that the one who posted the top 5 really had no idea of what pvp is :P
I know right? I mean how dare he share his opinion on what his top pvp games and what he enjoyed playing the most. In fact there should be no articles at all on this website or any other gaming site because they are all opinions.
Look chief, not everybody has the same preferences as you do. It's amazing people get so bent out of shape when someone doesn't share their opinion.
I know right? I mean how dare he share his opinion on what his top pvp games and what he enjoyed playing the most. In fact there should be no articles at all on this website or any other gaming site because they are all opinions.
Look chief, not everybody has the same preferences as you do. It's amazing people get so bent out of shape when someone doesn't share their opinion.
Dan Quayle has opinions too. It's fine, as long as all of his articles are clearly signed with "Dan Quayle", so everyone knows the value to give to the article and to his list of the 5 best laws in the USA "by Dan Quayle".
Maybe it's time to look for other valuable mmo sites. Anyone has a link to share ?
This list is utter bullshit, eve on number one? and no darkfall... i don't even play darkfall ( i used to) but you don't need to pla darkfall to know that its one of the best PVP MMO's... -.-'
the list FAILS
I know right? I mean how dare he share his opinion on what his top pvp games and what he enjoyed playing the most. In fact there should be no articles at all on this website or any other gaming site because they are all opinions.
Look chief, not everybody has the same preferences as you do. It's amazing people get so bent out of shape when someone doesn't share their opinion.
Lmao, sarcasm much huh it doesn;t change the fact the op didn't know what he was talking about or really had no taste in pvp game. The fact UO is in and not asheron call, there's something wrong already.
I looks like you can't have a discussion about pvp without all the Darkfall fanboy nutbars coming out to take a whack at you if you don't proclaim it the king of kings and bow down to their God King Tasos. This is whats called an opinion piece. The OP's opinion may be different than others and more than likely he never played DF or Shadowbane or whatever else. Kind of hard, not to mention dishonest, to say such and such game has the best pvp if he never played the game.
My top 5 would be:
1. Pre-nge swg, primarily playing as a BH and killing Jedi, I liked the 1v1, non-zerg aspect of it.
2. EVE
3. Pre-BC WoW
4. Planetside
5. Hmmm...can't think of a 5th, the rest of the mmo's I've played, LOTRO/D&D Online/WAR/ etc., have had pretty crappy pvp.
really supprised that darkfall was'nt there and that WoW was
PvP list with WoW in it? Ummm ...I'll have what he's drinking. IMO... And I play all five throughout the year.
5. Planetside
4. EvE
3. Guild Wars
2. Shadowbane
1. DAoC
I used to love world PvP in WoW. There used to actually be people grouping together to raid against towns of the other faction, now you are lucky if you can find a group to get the achievement for killing the opposing factions leaders.
Now you hop in and out of battlegrounds or arenas if you want to PvP.
Sure, you could always go around ganking people who are trying to level but that's not PvP, its harassment at best and boring at worst.
WoW killed off their PvP as far as I'm concerned when they introduced BG's, arenas, and the honor system.
They should only have gotten an honorary mention at most.
Is there any reason I should care what this person's list of favored PvP MMOGs is as opposed to what any other random internet person's list is? Unless you actually have something to say don't just throw a random list out there like it matters to anyone. Make a point for Pete's sake. You might have just as well wriiten an article about "My favorite kind of pie."
This made me laugh a bit. So in your world view, harassing players ranks above boredom? As in the worst thing a PvP system could be is boring, but harassment might be fine? Sorry, I'm not trying to troll or flame you, I just found this spectrum of player satisfaction odd.
LoL at all 10 of the Darkfall shills trying to hype their game onto the list. Guess what, you can't include a game on a list when no one plays it, no matter how good it's PvP is. Warhammer should probably be subbed with GW but other than that, there is nothing wrong with the list.
Never played DFO but this story reminds me very much of what happened in eve with the first war between BOB and goons. Similar thing with one alliance claiming they want to own all of 0.0 and eve splitting in 2 basically on who's side they where. hell that war is still technically going on today.
One other thing to say, while I'll never play wow despite the fact that every person i know in rl plays wow and they keep asking me to start playing and join their guild I sorta see why it's on the list. My friends have shown me plenty of videos of coompetitions with proffesionals vs'ing in arenas and whatnot which seem to outshine anything I've seen from any other mmo.
The other reason I can see it being on the list is that each game had a different reason for being on the list. havn't played some of these so just guessing from what I've heard.
wow - zerg funclub swarm
war - pvp at any level
ultima - player run pvp
DAOC - 3 sided constant war, RP loyalty
EVE - epic empire building pvp.
with this reasoning DFO didn't make the list purely cause it had the same reason for being on the list as EVE. I mean how boring would a list be if it was made up of only 5 epic empire building pvp games cause that's the best type of pvp (not that we have 5 of them.
1. DARKFALL
simply the best pvp game I have ever played
2. EVE
its all about math here
Where's Lineage 2?
Granted, the game was a huge grind, but the thing that excelled at,PvP, was far better than WAR.
Each server was a community, all clans/alliances knew each other and messing with the wrong guy would mean a forceful delete on your character because you wouldn't get out of towns too much.
There was drama, a fully open world with arenas, gate duels, world PvP, harsh death penalties(not so much now, but back then you could lose weeks worth of 8h+ gameplay/day if you were unlucky enough) and one of the best siege system ever done in MMOs.
I respect people's opinion, but when you put it up there, in a special section such as "News Discussion" you'd expect that the writer was a little bit more informed.
This made me lol hard due to 2 reasons;
Wow is on the list (LOL).
L2 is not on the list (LOL AGAIN).
mkay?
@ the LoLing about WoW being in the list. Vanilla WoW (pre-tbc...) was AWESOME.
for those who remember good old Alterac Valley, massive battles on the field of strife ;D loved it,
at the moment its more like 'RUSH TO CAPTURE GY = WIN' which unfortunately is.. =(
It was made as a PVE game and it sure is a PVE game... Theres no fun pvping in wow imo, tried it and left it. (Went back to L2 which is superior when it comes to PVP).
OK, you said the TOP FIVE. WAR doesn't belong on any list unless its the bottom five. If it was a TOP FIVE game it wouldn't be on the verge of shutting down after it was only 3 months old.
Anyone mentioning Darkfall needs to go play some pvp MMO's to see how bad Darkfall is. The game has potential, but has miles to go yet. The community is without doubt the worst I have seen in a MMO too.
Also hard to include Shadowbane, was far too buggy to be ever called a good game.
Pvp is highly dependent on individual tastes, hard for anyone to make a list that encompasses everyone.
Dont be dissing Forumfall. Though it has definitely fallen into a slumb as of late, the community has always taken pride in its cut throat attitude.
Dont be dissing Forumfall. Though it has definitely fallen into a slumb as of late, the community has always taken pride in its cut throat attitude.
"Forumfall" Needs a bit less swashbucklin, hyping and defecating on other forums and try to help the developers improve the game. The graphics are sub par, some balance issues need tweaking, and the community wipes their ass on pretty much everything.
Darkfall Its a good idea and already has a base plan set down, but it still needs work and appropriate feedback from the players to work out the kinks. If you don't, then don't expect your game to go anywhere at the mercy of your beloved "Cut throat attitude".
As for all of the LOL UR LIST IS WRONG that's going on this forum....its a damned opinion. Geeze... OP Might have never played any of the other games. Its kinda hard, near impossible to get a taste of -each and every- game start to finish. You would have to play 2 or 3 MMOs at a time unless you got powerleveled. (Which isn't fun anyway :\. at least for me.)
I actually really enjoyed WAR's RvR despite the clunkiness of its early days. A lot of this list is fueled by personal preference and experience nostalgia, while still other parts are fueled by game mechanics and the communities that drive the PvP. I hear Darkfall has a fantastic PvP community, but I've not had the chance to play it yet. I hear the UO comparison a lot with Aventurine's game, so one day with time and money I'm going to have to check it out.
The problem with Darkfall is it is crap.
You can have this amazing PVP system in place but if the gameplay isn't fun they it is all worthless.
GUILD WARS DAMMIT! that game was MADE for PvP and it has been completely ignored. /pissed
I think one of the biggest points about a games pvp can be made in relation to this post, and what the OP said about wow.
When a game is first released, and people have no idea What the fuck to do, they don't know the best skills, specs, talents, they just show up to play. They are not there be end level and gank lowbies because "it's their right, because they can, blah blah blah".
Open world pvp before and just after the honor system came out was some of the most fun I had in PvP. It wasn't about trying to get epic gear, or unlock some content, or capture some stupid fort. It was just about being better than the other team/side/player. People weren't concerned with "Oh, I can't fight now, because I need to go farm/level/grind/raid" or something. They showed up to fight as a low level, they fought against high levels. They had lots of fun. It wasn't about my game is the best, or your game sucks. People didn't care about anything else but fun. Now it's much more, let's do our ten games of arena a week, and no other pvp outside of maybe a BG or two.
When guild wars first came out, it wasn't set specs/makeups/skill sets. It was eight random people with random spells trying to work together to win HoH. Now you are bad without having those skills/spec/build all the time.
Anyways, I'm out the door, or I would write another ten paragraphs. Basically, everyone has their "flavor" of PvP they like. Some like the I can kill someone anywhere, some like the total loot, some like BG only, and some hate pvp all together. Your opinion is just as valid as the nexts.
2 comments...
To not have AC1 in top 3 is a disgrace, that's all I have to say.
And WAR's RvR was horrible, especially the endgame RvR gameplay. If you've only played T2-T3 RvR, it may have been entertaining. But things quickly fall apart in T4.
100% Agreed - GW offers amazing pvp for both the casual players and very competitive players!
Lets just replace "meaningless" with "scarce" for Eve then, as any meaningful PvP pretty much only takes place with the mega corps, the rest is just roaming ganking. Eve just goes to show you can take a great concept, great graphics, and make it completely dull by making everything impersonal (The only persistent "you" is a 80x80 avatar) and make it completely unpalatable by making the primary goals in the game basically A: greed B: get your fun by making other people miserable (griefing). and before you say "baww carebear etc" ask ANYONE what they play Eve for, and why its fun for them, and 90% of the time you get back the same answer "its fun listening to people whine after I kill them."
Large scale purposeful warfare, fine. The fact that outside of that rare and in between thing the game is centered around basically griefing and grinding in a game world that consists of jump points and empty space personally kicks Eve down considerably. Especially since even the large scale warfare comes down to A: who has more isk/ships laying around and B: who metagames more with their numerous alts and forum exploits which is the most ridiculous thing I find about Eve.
/rant off. *Raises shields for the inevitable response from the Eve faithful who are too heavily invested in the game to see any wrong.*
Relating more to the choices in general, the fact that WoW and WAR are on there shows that PvP in games at the moment is completely pitiful. DAoC and UO are the only ones that didn't make me cringe. As for Darkfall, I could see it being maybe #5 for pure mechanics of PvP, but the community absolutely blows and is aboute as mature as you would find on maplestory. Enjoy alliances controlled by raging manchildren. Guild wars I don't even consider an MMO, so I'm glad it didn't make the list.
Unfortunately, I don't see this list getting any better next year either the way things seem to be headed.
I've played every mmorpg out there and WoW is the only one to have fun combat. It is the most popular and lots of people have fun with PVP in the game and level up purely to do PVP and it's because it is the best. If these other games were so great then they'd be more popular but the fact is they aren't. Warhammer Online for example has a horrible combat system and it just doesn't flow and it ain't popular because of that.
For me combat makes PVP and WoW by far has the best combat, just a shame the killed World PVP.
I was away from home and any kind of PC for some time, so sorry for delay. WoW has (had for me, i stopped to play this game from a lot of time) a nice combat system or a newbie proof one? IMHO is right the second one. DAoC has a cool combat system and, unlike Blizzard game, is not (a lot) gear based. I think that gear based games (such as WoW, LOTRO and all the PvE-based games) are not right for PvP. I've two dreams about MMORPGs:
1) a UO like game (skill based, players can be adventurers, killers, cookers and so on) with a modern interface (and, maybe, a modern graphic)
2) a PvP game without any kind of drop (or, at least, only a "legendary armour" such as DAoC classic) and a lot of PvP or RvR zones. For gears crafting must be enough.
But are only dreams, mostly players like to be like a chinese one: farm, farm, farm.
I believe this top 5 list is just based on the writers own personal preference. I'm sure there are many people including myself who's top 5 list would have been very different. I've played all 5 games, although I only played Eve for about 15 minutes before uninstalling it,,, that game just wasn't for me.. Anyway, out of those 5 games, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind DAOC should be named as the best pvp game of all time, followed by Ultima Online then Shadowbane.. However, I'm sure people would argue stating Ultima Online deserves the crown, and some would say Shadowbane deserves to be #1.. But, there's no way I feel Eve should be mentioned in the same category as traditional Fantasy themed MMORPG's..
What no Asherson's Call Darktide server? Come on now.
Well count me as part of your 10% who didn't play Eve for "Hearing people complain after I killed them." Because honestly I sucked at killing things. :p
Now while I am an "Eve Faithful" I do fully acknowledge that Eve has faults. Personally I don't find the 80 X 80 avatar being one of them since my ship is a perfectly good Avatar for me. (When I played)
I'm glad EVE is number one, and as far as I'm concerned I can't think of a single game that PvP can have as major an affect on well EVERYTHING as it does in Eve. Your Random Griefing/Ganking is correct, it happens and it's also a part of the game. As a Miner it was my job to get past those goons or hire guys to protect me from those guys to get the goods for my Corp. So on the one hand it can be called ganking and on the other it is "Comerce Raiding." Attacking your opponents supply lines is completely valid.
Oh granted that's putting a fancy face on what is essentially random griefing but it is all part of the game and completely valid. There are very real consequences to the PvP in EVE and that's why it shoudl be number 1. It's not XP Loss, or temporary "control" of an area (though there is that) but it's a bottom line attack on other player's livelyhood and "bottom line." :)
As I said earlier there were a slew of games that were more approriate for a top 5 PvP MMO list lol. L2 is another example. It had partial looting of players as well didn't it?
Wasn't really looting per se, so much as you could drop a number of random items upon death, including gear. Way back when it first launched, this led to *a lot* of people basically running around spending all their time trying to mob-train and gank other players, purely to get their stuff. It was rather disruptive and distracted a number of people from the core point of the game.. which was to become powerful, fight other clans, siege castles, etc. I didn't play much during that period because it was so ridiculous to me.
As time went on, people got higher in level and gear became more valuable and more difficult to obtain and replace, it sorta rendered the whole "gear dropping" thing incompatible. Reason being, L2 is a very gear-centric game, which just doesn't sit well with "full drops on death". When you've spent weeks getting the materials to craft an item - that has a 40% of failing - and then you happen to die due to something out of your control, like say a game crash or lag spike or something.. it's not very pleasant to come back and find that gear gone.
So, what NC did is basically reduce the chance of dropping gear to a very specific situation... basically, if you have at least 5 PKs racked up and "go red" another time, if someone kills you, you're going to "pop like a piñata", as we call it.
So yeah.. those who are dedicated to being "villains" in L2 have a busy life of PK'ing, then "washing" the PKs - watching for any would-be killers - to make sure they don't lose anything. You'd be surprised how many do just that, though, on a daily basis.
No Guild Wars? Are you kidding me?
Hm.hmmhmmm, heh, ha, haha, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm going to go throw up now.....
My words exactly. I guess the author hasn't played it.
ok srsly, no L2? :)
GW isnt exactly a MMO so maybe thats the reason
No lotro? Fail.
*giggles* =P
Well I agree with the list if you look at the games in their glory days.
Actually, I would set DAoC at number one, with EVE at 2 and then everything else.
DAoC Pre-ToA-NF was the greatest, but honestly, the realm pride you speak off has since then been long gone. Due to various mistakes that Mythic made along the road, and the final deathblow : clustering servers with no realm timer, so you can switch realms instantly and join the winning side.
Also SWG had some nice PvP, I really like the overt / covert system.
Anyway, just wanted to add that DAoC lost the number 1 sport a long time ago.
After Mythic realized their mistake with Battlegrounds ( err Scenario's :p ) and boosted world RvR, the world RvR had it's moments, just enough for me to want to play DAoC pre-ToA-NF again.
Even tho WoW is included, it seems the auther made a list of real MMO's, not advanced Diablo clones :p
Besides WoW, each of the mmo's had meaningfull PvP one time or another.
Of course he did. But do you seriously think half the knuckleheads responding to this thread actually read and comprehended that part or the entire thread at all? Heck no. They look at the numbered bullets to see the game names and then get their undies in a wad and hit the "reply" button screaming for respect for their opinion or game but not willing to give any respect themselves.
Of course he did. But do you seriously think half the knuckleheads responding to this thread actually read and comprehended that part or the entire thread at all? Heck no. They look at the numbered bullets to see the game names and then get their undies in a wad and hit the "reply" button screaming for respect for their opinion or game but not willing to give any respect themselves.
That is so true.
Guildwars!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, this article seems about right. There is not very many good PvP games out there right now and the only memorable ones were in the past.
Of course he did. But do you seriously think half the knuckleheads responding to this thread actually read and comprehended that part or the entire thread at all? Heck no. They look at the numbered bullets to see the game names and then get their undies in a wad and hit the "reply" button screaming for respect for their opinion or game but not willing to give any respect themselves.
QFT on so many levels.
QFT on so many levels.
Wouldn't be a problem with the article and have half the number of complaints if the title of the thread simply read "My top 5 pvp MMO's."
First of all, do not say you've played every MMORPG, because I know you certainly haven't.
And it's the most popular because it's the best? No, sorry, it's the most popular because Blizzard found a great way to attract millions of casual players and carebears.
And by your logic, AOL was the best internet service provider for years because it had the most users, when anyone who knew anything about computers knew that it was horrible and avoided it like the plague. *eyeroll*
Fact of the matter is, there are plenty of other MMOs that have or had much, much, much better PvP then WoW will ever be able to accomplish. Most have already been listed so I won't list them all again, but the fact that you think PvP combat in WoW is better than, say, PvP combat in Darkfall, just makes me laugh my ass off.
Even tho WoW is included, it seems the auther made a list of real MMO's, not advanced Diablo clones :p
Besides WoW, each of the mmo's had meaningfull PvP one time or another.
In what way shape or form is GW a diablo clone? and what is a real MMO?
lol "Hibernia for life."
murphy has a sense of humor
finally a list i can agree on.
Albion forEVER!
Dem Hibbies?! Dem Albs?!
Screw that. Midgard or death!
We never let them take us, our realm we will defend...
This is an early april fools joke right?
any top pvp list that includes WoW and excludes Shadowbane and Darkfail has no credibility.
WoW is a carebear grindfest for magpies.
A game has to have real consequences to be considered a PVP game IMO.
How can you possibly put Eve ahead of Dark Age of Camelot ? Did you even play both games?
Sorry, any list that doesn't have Ultima and DAoC listed one and two doesn't deserve to be posted on a site that wants to be the number one MMO source.
As others have said.... learn to read. Nowhere does it say something like this is MMORPG.com's official view on the matter, and these are the top 5 PVP games according to the company itself. It says right in the first couple lines of the post that it is his own personal view on what he feels are the best. its a little something called a personal opinion... everyones got one, including you. If anything, instead of crying "your opinion sucks, my games are better" with nothing to back it up, at least have the sense to say why your choice is better than his. Why is Ultima PvP so great? Why DAoC? Id be willing to bet if you did that and actually analyzed the specifics between your games of choice and other games, you wouldnt be so quick to jump on others for liking a game. Sure you may have enjoyed the PvP in a certain game more than others, but that doesnt actually make it the best or mean that it has the best PvP mechanics, it was simply your opinion of fun at the time.
As others have said.... learn to read. Nowhere does it say something like this is MMORPG.com's official view on the matter, and these are the top 5 PVP games according to the company itself. It says right in the first couple lines of the post that it is his own personal view on what he feels are the best. its a little something called a personal opinion... everyones got one, including you. If anything, instead of crying "your opinion sucks, my games are better" with nothing to back it up, at least have the sense to say why your choice is better than his. Why is Ultima PvP so great? Why DAoC? Id be willing to bet if you did that and actually analyzed the specifics between your games of choice and other games, you wouldnt be so quick to jump on others for liking a game. Sure you may have enjoyed the PvP in a certain game more than others, but that doesnt actually make it the best or mean that it has the best PvP mechanics, it was simply your opinion of fun at the time.
It's on the front page of their website. Chill out fanboy, when it's one of the first things someone sees at their website than it should be considered as the sites opinion.
He posted the top 5 PvP MMO's, obviously it is his opinion of the games he has played. Yes, I disagree with his list and I'm glad you decided to jump in and flame me for having a opinion. DAoC and Ultima PvP is clearly the best because I said so and there shouldn't be any question to that. Since when does someone have to back up their opinion on this site?
FOR HIBERNIA
In my opinion WWII Online Battleground Europe is one of the best PvP-MMOs. Its World War 2, pure, brutal PvP, no safe zones, one big zoneless world, cities can be captured and one side wins, one side looses. Like a soccer match. Player action counts.
This game is nothing but Pvp, it was the first virtual battlefield where first-person shooter, tank, flight and ship-simulations came together in one big online massive-multiplayer-world!
I'm guessing he's never played GW, hands down better pvp than any game he listed.
Of course he did. But do you seriously think half the knuckleheads responding to this thread actually read and comprehended that part or the entire thread at all? Heck no. They look at the numbered bullets to see the game names and then get their undies in a wad and hit the "reply" button screaming for respect for their opinion or game but not willing to give any respect themselves.
Or more likely they read the title reasonably and expected that when a large gaming site publishes an editorial opinion of "the top five PvP MMOs from both the past and the present," the defacto expert might have, you know, actually played the big-boy PvP games before vomiting his opinion as to the best of all time.
If the clown hasn't even played games like Shadowbane and AC-DT, then he doesn't have a clue.
Shadowbane > Everything else on that list.
UO is second place to me, and DAoC Mordred (not the RVR crap) is distant 3rd.
ya well i cant say that this list is uncool as i tend to be seen ALOT on eve servers :) however i dont understand why people cant just say hell yes eve has the best pvp there is in any game atm. the thing behind any combat in eve is so masiv its hard to understand.. and you actually loose all ship and weapons etc when u die.. that in some cases can be months of hard work.. but thats maybe why some hate it... you actually loose all, so theres a major risk in pvp. not like the other child games out there where u risk nothing.. pvp is dangorous and it should be in all games.. why even bother to pvp if u do not ruing the other players day :P "sarcasm"
ah well. eve can be a hard game to start playing but when u first learn it wich takes a few days you will never leave it.. heck theres players from 2003. and yet they get kicked in the behind by players who has been on the server for a few months AKA goonswarm :)
its all major fun.. especialy the great alliance warfares.. epic combat with 1000 players in the same system fighting each other. now thats a mess....
the link below is epic 1500 mann fight... go see it lol... i dont know but could this happend in any other game plz enlighten me as i dont play anything but eve..
www.youtube.com/watch
Or more likely they read the title reasonably and expected that when a large gaming site publishes an editorial opinion of "the top five PvP MMOs from both the past and the present," the defacto expert might have, you know, actually played the big-boy PvP games before vomiting his opinion as to the best of all time.
If the clown hasn't even played games like Shadowbane and AC-DT, then he doesn't have a clue.
Or, maybe they need to learn to read past the title Where the author states in plain English that it is his list and that you, the reader, may disagree and have your own.
People not reading the "whole article" is, unfortunately, representative of one of the many parts that is wrong with human kind in general this day and age. That and we've only been through like 20+ of these articles in the recent past and in many of them the author states it's their opinion and that the point of the article is to get people to discuss their own lists as well. No, instead the jack-holes of the world seize the opportunity to show their collective ass.
Details on Eve Online that lend itself to quality pvp:
Truly massive
Some fights have over 1000 humans involved A recent fight had over 1300 pilots, roughly split evenly.
55,000 is the max logged in at once in the one instance that is Eve Online.
Player organization sizes run from 1 man corps to 5,000+ man alliances. Coalitions of alliances can number in the 10,000-20,000 member range.
Eve does not coddle the weak
If you die, everything you had in the ship can be looted by anyone close enough to reach the wreck, friend or foe. If they aren't friends, you can shoot them, so justice is in the player's hands, not the game.
If you die without a clone, you can lose a month of skill training time.
Eve does not try to discern good people from evil for you, if you fall to a scam due to carelessness or being naive, lesson learned and move on. (exploits etc are bannable, I am talking about gullibility scams)
Eve takes time to do things on the biggest scales
To fly the largest ships in the game takes REAL YEARS of skill training to qualify, you cant peak character development, ever, much less a couple of months of grinding.
Nothing has the big stakes for losses that Eve does
The largest ship can be lost in several minutes if the pilot is very unlucky or slightly careless, just like the smallest ships.
The largest ships in the game could be bought illegally through isk buying. One such case a few months ago had a guy spending $10,000 (real dollars) for his new ship. It was destroyed by hostiles in less than a week.
There was a battle last week that had a RL cash value of ~$31,000 in ship and structure losses (the one with 1300 pilots involved)
Players can work for months to construct an Outpost (space station that is a permanent new part of the game) and lose it in a week or two to someone stronger.
Semi-Myth about Eve
"New players can never catch up". You can't, really... But that doesn't mean you can't blow the oldest player in the game up with a month old player. Ship type, tactics and circumstances matter far more than skill levels.
You can be good at something fairly fast, but you will need to be part of a group effort. Eve does have solo pvpers, but the real game comes with fleet fighting. All skill levels have a place in a fleet where they can excel.
Eve is a hard game, made for people who like a challenge. They embrace the philosophy that challenge is what keeps players interested for the long haul, and I believe they are right. Eve is achieving the ideals that early Ultima Online chased, until they made Trammel without giving value to Felucca. In Eve, the 'Felucca type space' (0.0 space) is where the money flow begins. The power struggles are for control of lawless space, and it can get crazy violent.
Lastly, Eve is made by CCP, easily the coolest developer on the planet. Each year the devs informally make a video to show the players who make the trip to Iceland for the annual fan fest. Here is this year's superb effort, for those who may have missed it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q
Have to disagree with WOW being on there. AC darktide, Shadowbane and even DF is better pvp than the no risk uninspired pvp of WOW. DAoC I think should have been number 1. Also L2 or Lineage wasnt on there which is surprising since they are pvp games. Hell Aion pvp is more interesting than WoW.
Played them all and Darkfall should have made this list before WOW. Nothing against WOW it IS the best PVE MMO
Or more likely they read the title reasonably and expected that when a large gaming site publishes an editorial opinion of "the top five PvP MMOs from both the past and the present," the defacto expert might have, you know, actually played the big-boy PvP games before vomiting his opinion as to the best of all time.
If the clown hasn't even played games like Shadowbane and AC-DT, then he doesn't have a clue.
Or, maybe they need to learn to read past the title Where the author states in plain English that it is his list and that you, the reader, may disagree and have your own.
People not reading the "whole article" is, unfortunately, representative of one of the many parts that is wrong with human kind in general this day and age. That and we've only been through like 20+ of these articles in the recent past and in many of them the author states it's their opinion and that the point of the article is to get people to discuss their own lists as well. No, instead the jack-holes of the world seize the opportunity to show their collective ass.
It doesn't matter whether this list comprises the opinion of this author, you or your little sister.
It's an absolute piece of shit. It's based on apparently limited experience and it omits games that are obvious top 3 PvP games.
In short, no, the readers here are not idiots. They recognize that the list is some jackass opinion by some jackass who wrote an editorial. We just think his opinions are absolutely worthless.
Jackass.
Or, maybe they need to learn to read past the title Where the author states in plain English that it is his list and that you, the reader, may disagree and have your own.
People not reading the "whole article" is, unfortunately, representative of one of the many parts that is wrong with human kind in general this day and age. That and we've only been through like 20+ of these articles in the recent past and in many of them the author states it's their opinion and that the point of the article is to get people to discuss their own lists as well. No, instead the jack-holes of the world seize the opportunity to show their collective ass.
It doesn't matter whether this list comprises the opinion of this author, you or your little sister.
It's an absolute piece of shit. It's based on apparently limited experience and it omits games that are obvious top 3 PvP games.
In short, no, the readers here are not idiots. They recognize that the list is some jackass opinion by some jackass who wrote an editorial. We just think his opinions are absolutely worthless.
Jackass.
So your saying its wrong for the author to state his opinion after telling us, the readers, that this is his opinion and it can/will differ from out own. Grow up.
Like many have said before EVE, DAoC and UO are PvP games but WoW and WAR?
I assume the author of the article just has limited experience with PvP MMORPGs? What about WW2online? Planetside? Shadowbane? And my personal favourite DFO?
I understand I'm not going to like every game he lists but I don't consider WoW a PvP game, more like a PvE with some carebear button mashing rock/paper/sicssors arenas on the side. As for WAR? Well I suppose it could've been worse, he might have put AoC at number 1!
something stinks here....
Darkfall deserves some recognition as its currently the best PVP option on the market. I wouldnt even consider WoW to have real PvP, its more like a mini game. no real consequence to any of it. DAOC had decent PvP 6 years ago, its hardly one of the best though. i'm cool with EVE being there it's offering something unique. Ultima, i dont think i have to say anything here we all know that deserves a spot. Warhammer ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? hmmm .... hmmmm .... well i guess this does make sense considering how many EA sponsored banners this site has. but this is basically WoW, so i don't have so say why that shouldn't be there.
so what does all this come down to.....
well my friends it comes down to Darkfall :D
Dear William Myrphy,
This article was named "The List: The Top Five PvP MMOs" NOT "My List: My Top Five PvP MMOs". So you see, you didn't stick to the topic.
Opinions are great, but an article that deserves my time for reading, without making me go ballistic for the fact that it ignores convention of English words like: The List: The Top... have me wondering now about your ability to judge quality PvP at all. This is not an attempt at demeaning you whatsoever, but does call into question your clarity on the topic.
Would you care to try again? I mean, don't you think a better attempt is in order?
Please base the evaluation on certain criterion that can be reasonably argued vs. stinky buttcrack opinions. In my opinion, opinions are overrated. But in fact, opinions are highly valued thoughts that stem from situational awareness perspectives that have stirred emotional responses.
These opinions may be meaningful between friends; laying the foundation and reasoning in advice giving for selecting certain choices in life. Drawing them nearer to each other because social conformity plays a major role in the forming and shaping of communities.
Now, since I don't know you personally and I do not truly value your opinion by necessity, could you please be a little more scientific in your approach? I mean give me something to work with because I near completely disagree with your opinion for this list; especially from a scientific perspective.
Don't try to qualify your point of view to me. Quantify it. Beat me down with so many good points that I can barely lift my head off the ground to utter useless whispers of denial.
Sorry but you lost me at "Keep in mind that this list is my own, and your mileage may vary, but here then are my top five PvP MMOs" when in fact the assignment was "The List: The Top Five PvP MMOs".
Thanks,
Carrara
# 1 Shadowbane
I would agree that WOW pvp was not that great but in Warhammer all you do is PVP. War might have failed at PVE but the PVP was awesome!
I would swap WAR out and Guild Wars into it's place. Then I would say that is a pretty fair list. I would possibly consider bumping WoW off of the list for something else. WoW's world PvP is fun, but the arenas are too unbalanced to be taken seriously.
Of course he did. But do you seriously think half the knuckleheads responding to this thread actually read and comprehended that part or the entire thread at all? Heck no. They look at the numbered bullets to see the game names and then get their undies in a wad and hit the "reply" button screaming for respect for their opinion or game but not willing to give any respect themselves.
This, half of the mmorpg community is filled with a bunch of idiots sadly...
especially the Darkfall ones..did you notice that i would say close to 80% of the pro DF pvprs used terms like LOL, FAIL, etc....where as those who interjected for other games wrote nice descriptive sentences with their reasons? I thought it was pretty humorous...
While I hate Darkfall, I cant see how the trash called Warhammer Online can get in list, and DF dont. WTF UO doing here? It had some nice PvP in the early days, now there is almost none. Only thing I agree is EVE at #1.
PvP now is much more developed in WoW, then during vanilla days. Huge community around Arenas, constant tournaments with $$$ prizes, lots of PvP superstars, thousands of PvP movies. Lots of people dont give a shit about raids or quests, playing only arenas.
WoW is not really a PvP game but arenas and great class balance gave it the biggest PvP community among all MMOs
you put wow and war but no lineage 2?
lineage 2 was epic pvp. sure there were major class imbalances, crappy combat mechanics and a huge grind but you could pvp from day one for hunting spots. the clan wars and sieges were epic and spawned huge amounts of drama in an ever changing political climate which is only rivaled by EVE.
peopel talked about sieges for days afterwards, and could spwn epic wars, grudges and what not. i myself even had duels in the middle of the battlefield, 400 players between the two sides and me and one other guy zero in on one another to settle a rivalry which never really did end. after each siege we'd talk in PMs for hours about the seige, giving each other a pat on the back and giving tips on how to make the next encounter even more thrilling.
world pvp was common and ranged from one man gank runs, to gank squads roaming the country side to organised 9v9 faceoffs to impromptu epic 100v100~ battles.
every bit of progress we undertook was aimed at becoming more viable in pvp. we powerleveled rerolls to gain mreo strong pvp classes, bought second accounts for buffers, fueled billions of adena into crafters for better gear. fought for raid bosses for rare drops, mats and crystal upgrades.
the winners got nothing but glory, the right to the hunting spot or a five minute window in which to take on the raid boss. the losers lost 1-4% of their exp and were humbled. it was the golden age of pvp for me, and while i did have fun in wow, it was never as epic or as intense as lineage 2.
My top 5 (not you'rs)
5. World of Warcraft. -based on the sheer number of net logins participating in pvp on a daily basis. Also, the design of battlegrounds and pvp rewards system
4. Ultima Online -I would rate it higher, but honestly it had flaws
3. Shadow Bane
2. Lineage 2
1. Eve Online
see, I made a list. Just like the rest of you can. There would be just as many people flaming my list as the writers list. Just like I would flame you for making a list that difers from my list
Maybe he should have made a top 10. probably would have had less flames :P
As far as those games I have played - I agree, this and EVE. Note to Darkfall fanboys - I have never played it and so am not commenting on it. Buy me a free month and I will try it. Same for DaoC - though I have heard many good things about. Shadowbane was great though - Just farming mobs one had to bring a team - some of us farmed and the rest of us kept a watchful eye for raiding partys. I always was afraid when out soloing. I also remember at least one 36 hour session defending our City. Great game - wish they would make another. EVE - in Space no one can hear you scream. Even noobies are not safe.
The other one that I loved besides DAOC and EVE believe it or not was EQ dark versus light pvp Tallon ZEK server. (this was the first 2 years before $oe broke it) Having to work your way into enemy territory to complete quests and your anywere any time looking over your shoulder was great. Sigh,then $oe took over end of all good things.
World of Warcraft
This game’s version of PvP may get flack for being the big daddy in the MMO world, and for pretty much screwing things up entirely back in the early days of the Honor Systems inception, but I have more memorable moments fighting other players in Azeroth than I do in any other game. Back before the Honor System was ever introduced, I spent countless hours fighting the Horde at Tarren Mill, and advancing on the Sepulcher just to see how long we dwarves, elves, gnomes, and men could hold off the enemy. Today, WoW’s PvP is more about E-Sports than open-world warfare, but for that it deserves plenty of mention. Blizzard has a knack for creating games that spawn an entire culture of competitive play, and WoW was no different. Something tells me we’ll be talking about Alterac Valley and Arena Scores for years to come.
I second this sentiment. There was a lot less ganking after BG was introduced, but it also kind of sterilised the gameworld. Some of the best fun I had in WoW was dodging gankers.
Me and another gnome flitting through Darkshire using our gnomish compactness to hide inside shrubbery to avoid a level 60 Tauren shaman and get our quests done.
Or the time in Lakeshire all us little nooblets ganged up on an Undead warrior who'd been ganking around the zone. We caught him on the road north of the bridge and while he killed about half of us, we nailed him and he didn't come back.
Or creeping through enemy territory for the first time with each character to get new teleport points or do class quests.
And I'll never forget the first time I popped a Fellhunter to sniff out a rogue. He had no idea we could all now see through his stealth and were about to pound him....
Good times :)
I must mention JumpGate (original) as it was the most adrenaline pumping I've ever experienced.
I also think PlanetSide should be in the list as it was indeed a PvP only game and quite popular in its day.
I haven't experienced DFO but from what I read, It looks like it should be in the list. Same goes for Shadowbane and Guildwars but I wouldn't remove any of the other games in there.
So all in all I'd simply compile a list with 9-10 games (throwing AC or SWG in there) instead of the current 5.
Lastly, I must say that, despite hating WOW, the fact that some 5 Million people play it for the it's "PvP side", tells something... The earlier vanilla period of open world PvP was good though.
as many on the first 2 pages have mentioned (didn't read the rest) this
list is a sham without any mention of Darkfall
Aion should defiently be on the list. Small group rifting is some of the most fun I've had pvping in a long long time. I give Aion until about mid 2011 to be one of the top pvp MMOs out.
GW not even on the list ?
I'm not sure you're qualified to talk about PVP.
Well, the first and only one King of PvP MMORPGs is:
MMORPG.com's forum discussions about PvP
Great itea. Someone wants a PvP game browses the top PvP games list, chooses for whatever reason to try Shadowbane only to find out after 10 mins later that it no longer runs...
I very respectfully disagree. If you want to know what the top PvP MMORPGs of all time are, you should look at the games the top PvP guilds flock to for serious competition. As someone who has played PvP MMOs and on PvP servers since the genre started, there are certain games that these guilds hold in high regards.
Ultima Online, Shadowbane, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call (Darktide), EVE Online, possibly Guild Wars or Lineage 2, and Darkfall.
I have played with and against some of the most prolific PvP guilds in the MMO genre, and believe me when I say Darkfall is a game where many of them have a presence for the last year. Whether you like the game or thinks its a piece of crap, doesn't matter. Whether the game has 11 million subscribers or 30,000 doesn't matter. The list shouldn't be based on sub numbers because PvP and hardcore PvP is a very niche part of the genre. Follow these guilds and you'll find the best PvP MMOs, and right now Darkfall is one of them. No game requires more situational awareness and personal skill at the controls in the genre than this one does, despite whatever other flaws there may be.
Confirming that Darkfall should be there. The title is "top 5 PVP MMOs" - if you want to define "top" as "best, highest quality, requiring most skill" then Darkfall should be there. If you want to define "top" as "most units sold" then WOW would be first... the criteria for "top" in this list doesn't seem to hold any water, seems more like "here are the only 5 PVP MMOs I have ever played".
imo the only half working pvp enviroment was givin in UO pre trammel.
And trammel was born out of a quite shitty playerbase that made life miserable for alot of ppl, and not
of getting more atractive to a more casual playerbase .
As for today theres only 1 title that comes into my mind that offers good and stable (fair) PvP and thats EVE .
Good point. I don't think the OP has even tried it.
Good point. I don't think the OP has even tried it.
You're right, he didn't. In fact, he even stated a few pages ago, that he hasn't tried it yet.
Read the list again people. This is a list of HIS favorite games to PvP in. It's not the top 5 PvP MMOs, it's ~his~ top 5. If someone made another list and added Hello Kitty to it, that still only makes it their favorite. Has nothing to do with any of you. Move on and troll elsewhere.
I will agree however, that the title of the post is misleading and should be modified to state to obvious if only to save on the unabashed stupid going for *checks* almost 24 pages now.
He must live in a closet
i think we can safely insert "that paid to be included" into all the title of all future list articles.
Yes, yes, and yes. I still haven't met anything that comes close to DAoC's PvP system. Apparently they call the style Realm Vs. Realm now I guess. Regardless I haven't played in about 6 years, I hope I can get my account back hahaha. I had 6 max level 50's and quit right before they did their whole PvP system revamp. I want to go back, the 3 realms fighting is where it's at.
As you said, this was your personal list and you did not claim to have surveyed the entire field of options. Thus, thanks for the well written and reasoned article. I enjoyed reading it. However, I felt it was my duty as a diligent reader and forum commentator to add –
xxxxwtf!!!111 No DARKFALL wtfxxxx
What's the point of this thread when 95% of you nub's never played Asheronscall Darktide.
Todays pvp generation makes me sad
/agreed Darkfall is the most amazing game I played for PvP, although I still think the twitch melee pvp needed some work. Best times in a game ever with DF though
Uh, what has age go to do with it?
Everyone that has said WAR shouldn't be on here is dumb as shit, pardon my language. The game should NOT be number 4, it deserved at least 3 on the list. Also, I have played EVE, and there is no point even TRYING the game. There are so many people that have been playing since it came out, and the control the whole game. Also, WAR has totally open PvP that lets the factions control sectors.
To even have WoW in top 5 PvP shows this writers lack of MMO and PvP experience. EQ2, Darkfall, Shadowbane, EQ1 (Rallos Zek, greatest pvp server of all time ok), Neocron, hell even Vanguard, all had crap tons better PvP. The only reason WoW is in there is total lack of a death penalty which keeps the carebear crybabies comin back for more.
Darkfall is a very small niche game that appeals to a very small audience. They would have a hard time getting 25th on the list. More pvp occurs in Wow in one day then in a month in Darkfall not to say pvp in Wow is anything great. It also has a major issues such as no skill cap. So it in no way belongs on this list.
WAR is very right in that list. It even deserves a higher place. The author mentioned the unmet potential but beside all the bad things about this game it has a very very important feature: it is possible to pvp in this game and do nothing but that. I just played it again for a month and indead created a toon and went to rvr. Naked, lv 1 - works.
It was often announced to be the "next-gen" pvp game. We all know it was not. But the ideas and concept were. No other game was designed to include pvp right from the very start with content for all levels.
I think the list is quite fine.
WOW for beeing the big mainstream hit
WAR for Concept
Ultima for beeing a pioneer
DAoC for beeing the most fun, replace it with you most fun game like DF, SB or GW and the list is still fine
Eve for having the most complex pvp world
And MY List:
1. EVE
2. Aion
3. WoW
4. Fallen Earth
5. um.... didn't get to play it but guess I'l have to include... Ultima Online
Yeah I missed out on that last one ..couldn afford a computer back in those days and I know those days were and will forever be the best!
This list is mainly "of those games I actually played.
Eve is overrated
Eve and Uo are the only mmo worth mentioning anyway, and pvp or not have nothing to do with it in fact.
I wonder what his list looks like this year.. However, putting WoW up there based on "history" and not the current game.. While leaving games like Darkfall and Aion off the list, which is my opinion are far better PvP titles makes one think, " Why the Bliz and War promo?" Hell I would evern say STO deserves a spot on that list, and that is really stretching it Last time I played Planetside, it has far better PvP then WoW and Warhammer