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Ultima Online Forum » Britannia Tavern (General) » Classic Shard is under consideration by EA staff

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47 posts found
  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

2/24/10 10:07:46 AM#21

I'm sure this has been mentioned but I just wanted to agree with it if it had.

 

The problem with classic shards, of any game, is that people have these found memories that have grown as time went by about how amazing their first (or early) MMOs were. You give them that same situation back and they will play for a month and then realize it's not how they remembered it to be and leave. The shard would quickly become a ghost town.

 

This is the same for any strong memories of anything in life, They are so strong because you can't revisit them in real life, but when you do it is always a let down because the mind improves the memories as time goes by, making them greater then the actual events were.

 

Games have tried classic servers before, it never works, people never stay. Just keep the memory of how great UO once was in your head and be happy with that.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12280

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

2/24/10 10:18:29 AM#22

I don't think the people who want a Classic Shard have ever really thought through their idea beyond the first hour or so of gameplay.

 

There were flaws and exploits that needed to be fixed. Do you leave them ingame or do you fix them. In fixing them, do you go the same path as the existing servers went oro try a new path? If you try a new path, doesn't that always open up new bugs and exploits?

 

In the end, you wind up with one of the following:

  • a static and stagnant server that most people will grow tired of within a month or two (see: most emulated servers)
  • an updated server that eventually falls in line with the existing ones (but lags behind them in tech)
  • an updated server that diverges on another path which eventually no longer offers the 'classic' experience in one way or another for most of its players

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

2/24/10 10:21:59 AM#23
Originally posted by Loktofeit

I don't think the people who want a Classic Shard have ever really thought through their idea beyond the first hour or so of gameplay.

 

There were flaws and exploits that needed to be fixed. Do you leave them ingame or do you fix them. In fixing them, do you go the same path as the existing servers went oro try a new path? If you try a new path, doesn't that always open up new bugs and exploits?

 

In the end, you wind up with one of the following:

  • a static and stagnant server that most people will grow tired of within a month or two (see: most emulated servers)
  • an updated server that eventually falls in line with the existing ones (but lags behind them in tech)
  • an updated server that diverges on another path which eventually no longer offers the 'classic' experience in one way or another for most of its players

 

 

I disagree with that being an issue (the issue I think for why this wouldn't work is above your post).
 

 

Most people who want a classic shard, left because of the changes. I left once the Red/Blue/Grey crap went in game. Before that yes the world was stagnant but it was a fun world. You'd be walking through the woods and some guy would pick pocket you, emerge form the shadows, and run off. You'd spend 10 minutes trying to chase him down and kill him. Or a couple guys would jump out of the woods and try to kill you and you'd run for 10 minutes trying to lose them. It was a fun exciting place. The changes are what killed the fun for me.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12280

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

2/24/10 10:43:13 AM#24
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

I disagree with that being an issue (the issue I think for why this wouldn't work is above your post).
 

 

Which is the first of the three issues I listed.

 

You are forgetting the cheese exploit, leather female armor, blackholing, server boundary dupes, the 32k bank bug, alignment iexploits and well, hundreds of major issues that would need to be fixed or updated.

 

More importantly, what is YOUR definition of Classic server?  To some, it's pre-T2A, to others it's pre-AoS. In each group there are people that disagree on what should be fixed and what was good to keep in place.

What's your stance on the harm wands? Teleport rings? Faction? Order vs Chaos? Aggression timers and the many different incarnations of the thieving rules? Stat loss PvP vs murder count vs perma red Dreads?

 

How about boat ownership? House keys? I ban thee?

 

A 'Classic Server' is good in theory, but that falls apart once people actually revisit it and the clamouring for changes begins.

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  KiDBlaiR

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/08
Posts: 9

2/24/10 12:41:36 PM#25

Honestly I would still play pre T2A or even Beta.. bugs and glitchs are in every game and people will always find more..as long as people arnt running around one shotting people ill be fine with it...

I know a server isnt gunna happen anyway so this is all pretty much pointless...

Currently play MO Beta

Global Agenda

Age of Conan.

Currently still hate WoW and everything about the carebear leapfrog pillow hugging bullsh*t game.

  KiDBlaiR

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/08
Posts: 9

2/24/10 1:19:12 PM#26

 

  PhilipBanks

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/10
Posts: 1

2/25/10 3:16:43 PM#27

http://www.uoorigins.com/

 

Pre t2a shard...still new but lots of nostalgia. !!

  brieen

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/03
Posts: 60

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.

2/25/10 3:28:49 PM#28

Please go to the link below and join the Bring back classic Ultima Online group Thank you everyone who has joined.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=317849071900       

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Brieen - UO,DAOC,WOW,SB,EQ,EQII,EVE,LOTR,D&D,Rift,FFXI and some others I dont care to list......

  TuxedoSLY

Ultima Online Correspondent

Joined: 10/29/06
Posts: 93

Blessed be the lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

2/26/10 9:17:01 PM#29

I never thought about it, but there are some great points here.

 

What is a classic shard? How can you make a classic shard to appeal to the masses when everyone has their own particular time frame they loved?

 

For me, classic is anything before Trammel. Or, at the very least, before item properties and lower reagent suits. Back when all you needed was reagents, or a simple exceptionally crafted sword, and you went out and just did things.

 

But that's not everyone's cup of tea. What would start as a noble idea would turn into a shout fest and outcry from people who feel slighted because of certain things making it in and other things not returning.

 

You can't do a classic shard because it won't please everyone. There will still be complainers and there will still be people who, as said before, will remain on their MMO because it speaks directly to them.

 

Look, I'm the biggest UO supporter you'll find. My first article was basically condemned as propaganda for the game. I would shed a tear if I could step back about 10 years ago and relive my first MMO with fresh eyes. But those eyes have been seen so much now in so many different worlds that it could never be the same. I truly yearn for the way I felt about UO when I first started playing, back in a time before there were even death animations. I fished and sold fish steaks to the tavern for enough gold to buy a little kitty cat from a tamer in town.

 

But those days are gone. Nostalgia is not reality. UO, as it is now, is still a good game. Simplifying it, and that's what it is because most of the mechanics that made it great are still in game, won't change the minds of the player base that exists now.

 

We were a different breed back then. We're old men now. Our time is gone. We cling to memories and hope for the next best thing that constantly disappoints us, like Darkfall and Mortal.

 

Substitutes, but never replacements.

  vaultbrain

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/09
Posts: 123

2/27/10 3:42:23 AM#30
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

I disagree with that being an issue (the issue I think for why this wouldn't work is above your post).
 

 

Which is the first of the three issues I listed.

 

You are forgetting the cheese exploit, leather female armor, blackholing, server boundary dupes, the 32k bank bug, alignment iexploits and well, hundreds of major issues that would need to be fixed or updated.

 

More importantly, what is YOUR definition of Classic server?  To some, it's pre-T2A, to others it's pre-AoS. In each group there are people that disagree on what should be fixed and what was good to keep in place.

What's your stance on the harm wands? Teleport rings? Faction? Order vs Chaos? Aggression timers and the many different incarnations of the thieving rules? Stat loss PvP vs murder count vs perma red Dreads?

 

How about boat ownership? House keys? I ban thee?

 

A 'Classic Server' is good in theory, but that falls apart once people actually revisit it and the clamouring for changes begins.

 

 


 

Clamoring for Change or Clamoring for Fixes? The two are not synonimous. If players dont want to play the Classic server and want "Change" Then they are more than welcome to go back to the post AOS servers and get a big dose of reminder of what change and EA can do.

The Old UO didnt need change as you think of it. Yeah, a new land mass here or there, perhaps some new dungeons, that would have been fine. But the "changes" that were made completely ruined the game.

What you, and many who post your argument, seem to forget is, players have already experienced change to UO, and look at it now. Its a husk, a shell, a souless attempt to copy the EQ mainstream trend.

As for the old glitches you mentioned those can be, and were at one point, fixed. It The solutions were already found, they just need to be reapplied. It should be too hard for EA to just follow the word someone else did, I mean, they've built their whole company on being rip-off artists, this should be like breathing to them.

Addressing the issues of what a classic server is, thats easy. T2A. It was the best balanced era. It had its problems, but thats were simple patch fixes come in. All of those major glitches you mentioned can be quickly fixed because, like I said earlier, it was already done years ago. Copy, paste, complete. Someone already did the thinking for them, all the developers would have to do is follow some instructions.

The other "problems" you listed were trivial at best. The theiveing rules? As someone who played a theif in T2A, they worked pretty well. You get caught stealing, you fail at the attempt, the person you're stealing from gets alerted, you go grey, you got killed. You steal successfully, the victim remains unaware, you slink off and no one is the wiser. Get caught in town...... youre a pin coushion for the guards. It was a simple system, and it worked...what more could you ask for?

Chaos and Order guilds, those were always fun and they played in with the lore. Factions....no one really ever played them to begin with, so, why bother with them at all? If I recall correctly, they were nothing more than a ploy to get people to come back to Felucca after the split, and it failed. The PvP centric players knew that no one would be interested in it. It was more fun for people to stay in Trammel and be mouthy little jackasses then actually back up their trash talk with some brawn.

Stat loss... I believe that was taken out not long after it was put in, so.....probably a bad idea. Perma-reds? Hey, if you cant do the time, dont do the crime. But even then, any penalties inflicted on Reds is moot because players can just log on other characters and move about with impunity. So, they should just do it the way it was done in T2A. You kill one person, you go grey for a while, you kill two people, you go red. Keep killing people with reckless abandon, youre perma red. It worked. I played Catskills back then, at peak hours, solo, and I came across a red once in a while. I hit the dungeons, roamed the forests on my lumberjack, and had a good time. Sure, I got  PK'd, especially when I started out, but then I learned, got better at the game, and before I knew it, I had 3 7x GM characters, and I was happy with them.

Boats, house keys and I ban thee...... T2A. It worked.

But, as anyone knows, this is all moot. EA wont make a classic server, and not because of trivial reasons like these. No, its more of a matter of arrogance and ignorance on their part. Practicality has nothing to do with it.

  vaultbrain

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/09
Posts: 123

2/27/10 4:06:28 AM#31
Originally posted by TuxedoSLY

I never thought about it, but there are some great points here.

 

What is a classic shard? How can you make a classic shard to appeal to the masses when everyone has their own particular time frame they loved?

 

For me, classic is anything before Trammel. Or, at the very least, before item properties and lower reagent suits. Back when all you needed was reagents, or a simple exceptionally crafted sword, and you went out and just did things.

 

But that's not everyone's cup of tea. What would start as a noble idea would turn into a shout fest and outcry from people who feel slighted because of certain things making it in and other things not returning.

 

You can't do a classic shard because it won't please everyone. There will still be complainers and there will still be people who, as said before, will remain on their MMO because it speaks directly to them.

 

Look, I'm the biggest UO supporter you'll find. My first article was basically condemned as propaganda for the game. I would shed a tear if I could step back about 10 years ago and relive my first MMO with fresh eyes. But those eyes have been seen so much now in so many different worlds that it could never be the same. I truly yearn for the way I felt about UO when I first started playing, back in a time before there were even death animations. I fished and sold fish steaks to the tavern for enough gold to buy a little kitty cat from a tamer in town.

 

But those days are gone. Nostalgia is not reality. UO, as it is now, is still a good game. Simplifying it, and that's what it is because most of the mechanics that made it great are still in game, won't change the minds of the player base that exists now.

 

We were a different breed back then. We're old men now. Our time is gone. We cling to memories and hope for the next best thing that constantly disappoints us, like Darkfall and Mortal.

 

Substitutes, but never replacements.


 

Well, theres where you make youre mistake. Youre assuming that the goal here is to please everyone. A classic server's purpose wouldnt be to please everyone, it would be to try and recapture as many of those niche players UO once had. The new school players will more likely than not stay on their post AOS craptacular item fests and continue to suckle at the teat of item whoreage, trying to suck every last bitter drop of neon tokuno dyed pixleated crack they can.

However, there are a great many players out there, spanning the clone army of WoW, AoC, LoTRO, and all of the other rip-offs who would leave their "next-gen graphics", so called seiges, horribly malformed crafting systems, and come running back if EA had the basic logic to listen and make a classic server. Are these great many players "everyone?". Hell no. But are they a greater quality of player than what polutes the game now? Are they the old guild mates we lost touch with after they said "Blue Neon Elves!? They're adding in Blue Neon Elves!? WTF?!" or "You meant to tell me I cant wait for that mouthy little jerk off over there to leave town then kill him and humiliate him because theres no PvP on Trammel?" and quit? Are they the ones who with us took those first steps on our first dungeon crawls? Yes, they are.

They have seen what is out there, what the MMO market has to offer, and you know what? They would love NOTHING more than to come back to the game with the decade old graphics, simple 2d sprites, and play again. Because despite that, old UO still offered a better quality of game play than every fancy next gen MMO out there today.

Its not nostalgia that makes people want for a classic UO server, its fact that the players know what they want. EA has been told as much since Renaissance, but they pressed on with 3rd dawn, then LBR, then AOS and all the other ugh "expansions" that have brought us to today.

UO today: A freaking ghost town full of uber item buffed cheaters, hackers and gold farmers that all crowd into luna bank and spam all day. Woo hoo, oh yes, thats a great game indeed........ not. So, no, there is nothing good about UO anymore, unless youre one of those item buffed cheaters, hackers, or gold farmers.

Youre right that making classic servers wouldnt chance the mindset of the playerbase now. But the point is, the classic server wouldnt be made for them. To hell with what they think. They've had close to 8 years of getting their way, and look at what it did to the game. Nothing good I can tell you that.

 

But, whats the point in even talking about it. EA will NEVER do it. And not because its impossible, because if some moron from the ass end of nowhere working at foot locker can find the time and money to set up the servers on a practically nothing budget, it would be a breeze for EA to make it happen. They could have done it years ago when people first started calling for classic servers. So, unless someone manages to pry UO from EA's greedy talons of incompetance, hope for a good quality game is a fools endeavor.

 

RIP UO.

  MacroPlanet

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/05
Posts: 1033

Astronomy, art, games, and a cup of coffee.

 
OP  2/27/10 8:03:30 AM#32

There are some really decent points in these posts. 

 

I agree with TuxedoSLY about the classic argument.  What is classic?  To me classic could be UO: Renaissance.  To some classic UO could be just anything before AoS.  And to others it could be UO: The Second Age.  Hell, some might want UO: Beta with all the bugs, glitches, etc still intact.  

 

It would be very hard for EA to decide where to exactly pin point classic UO.  Of course you're still going to make some people upset because it is not the original game.  I however think that *if* EA does this, I think they will recreate a UO where there is no Trammel, mainly due to the fact that current UO already has this feature.  I think the most popular time line in UO history is probably with the Second Age (T2A), so I believe it would be the best choice to relaunch this UO classic shard at this point.

 

I started playing UO between The Second Age and Renaissance, probably a couple months before trammel was introduced etc...  So it is kind of hard to really say what I would want, because I was introduced to the game right when changes were happening.  I do know, however, that if this classic shard were to actually happen I personally would like it to be place before there was Malas, before the Age of Shadows.  LBR was not my favorite expansion with all the steam punk, but I did enjoy the virtue system.  The game still had the Vanquish, Runic...etc...item.  So if EA were to launch from the LBR time line, I would have no problem.  I do know others would have a fit.

 

I guess what we are trying to discuss here is what is a classic UO game to you?  Is it Pre-Trammel or is it Renaissance?  Is it UO Vanilla, or did you like The Second Age?  As much as some of you doubt this to ever happen, I highly hope it does.  I want to play an official UO that has been recreated from ten years ago.  And no, free shards don't count because for all the right they do, they also do twice as much wrong.

Best MMORPG:
Ultima Online
EVE Online
World of Warcraft
DayZ

  MacroPlanet

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/05
Posts: 1033

Astronomy, art, games, and a cup of coffee.

 
OP  2/27/10 8:08:08 AM#33
Originally posted by vaultbrain

Boats, house keys and I ban thee...... T2A. It worked.

 

I agree with vaultbrain.  The Second Age would have to be my first choice.  I loved the horses, houses, boats, chaos & order (hated factions, not even as fun as C & O), I ban thee, stealing.  The Second Age, when I started playing, had to be Ultima Online in it's golden time.

Best MMORPG:
Ultima Online
EVE Online
World of Warcraft
DayZ

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12280

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

2/27/10 8:24:14 AM#34
Originally posted by vaultbrain

 

Clamoring for Change or Clamoring for Fixes? The two are not synonimous. If players dont want to play the Classic server and want "Change" Then they are more than welcome to go back to the post AOS servers and get a big dose of reminder of what change and EA can do.

 

Again, you are missing the actual point which is that what needs to be fixed in classic differs from person to person. Of the small but vocal group that wants a classic server, there is too much fragmentation as to what needs to be left 'classic' and what needs to be 'fixed'.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Azureal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/06
Posts: 242

2/27/10 8:40:14 AM#35
Originally posted by MaeEye

Vaultbrain, do know that EA has been involved with UO since the release.  Origin System has been a part of EA since 1992, when EA acquired them.

 

Also just so you know Richard was as much part of UO's decline as EA was.  He was only a part of the whole Trammel thing, but I do agree that what messed up UO the most when AoS released.  

 

You say you wish Richard would come back and save Ultima.  I say I doubt he would even be able to save UO.  He couldn't even create and save his game Tabula Rasa.  Now he's out developing social games for Facebook and the likes.  To me he sold out.  I'm sure he is going to make a killing on some of those mindless games.

 

There used to be a day when I would doubt EA on anything.  Hell, they ruined and had some of the worst games ever.  But I can't say the same anymore.  With the release of the Battlefield series (especially BF:BC2), Dead Space, and their support behind some of the greatest companies out there, ei Valve, I've learned to almost trust them again.

 

Sure They will never have my full trust and I'm not going to believe for a second that they would actually bring back a classic shard, but just the fact that they actually acknowledged it and stated that they are thinking about it gives me that slight reason to hope.

 

Ultima Online, next to WoW, is still one of the best MMO's out there.  The only problem with it for me is that it has been so very long since I've played the game that I feel so left behind.

 

Lets just hope that EA is smart about UO again, and not just pulling our chains......again.

 

 

OMG. A moonstone. Remember when they started dropping before Tram/Fel was released, and the massive amounts of speculation regarding what they did/did not do?
 

Theres an entire generation of gamers out there that would look at that small drab screenshot and have no idea what took place in that wonderful, beautiful world.

 

Thats the saddest part.

PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12280

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

2/27/10 8:42:59 AM#36
Originally posted by MaeEye
Originally posted by vaultbrain

Boats, house keys and I ban thee...... T2A. It worked.

 

I agree with vaultbrain.  The Second Age would have to be my first choice.  I loved the horses, houses, boats, chaos & order (hated factions, not even as fun as C & O), I ban thee, stealing.  The Second Age, when I started playing, had to be Ultima Online in it's golden time.

 

That's my personal favorite also. I'd miss the house creation, treasure hunting, deep sea fishing and a lot of the newer changes that were added but the gameplay of T2A and earlier worked well for me.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Azureal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/06
Posts: 242

2/27/10 8:44:50 AM#37

Fishing  >

SoS Bottles  >

Treasure Maps  >

Fun.

 

 

PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO

  TuxedoSLY

Ultima Online Correspondent

Joined: 10/29/06
Posts: 93

Blessed be the lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

2/27/10 8:49:23 AM#38

It's cool that so many UO vets gather here to discuss this, and sad that all we seem to do is depress ourselves with it :)

  Azureal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/06
Posts: 242

2/27/10 8:52:43 AM#39
Originally posted by TuxedoSLY

It's cool that so many UO vets gather here to discuss this, and sad that all we seem to do is depress ourselves with it :)


 

Ive found the MMO industry becoming more and more depressing as the years go on. Maybe its just me, and Im getting older and more cynical.

PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO

  MacroPlanet

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/05
Posts: 1033

Astronomy, art, games, and a cup of coffee.

 
OP  2/28/10 9:01:03 AM#40
Originally posted by Azureal
Originally posted by MaeEye

Vaultbrain, do know that EA has been involved with UO since the release.  Origin System has been a part of EA since 1992, when EA acquired them.

 

Also just so you know Richard was as much part of UO's decline as EA was.  He was only a part of the whole Trammel thing, but I do agree that what messed up UO the most when AoS released.  

 

You say you wish Richard would come back and save Ultima.  I say I doubt he would even be able to save UO.  He couldn't even create and save his game Tabula Rasa.  Now he's out developing social games for Facebook and the likes.  To me he sold out.  I'm sure he is going to make a killing on some of those mindless games.

 

There used to be a day when I would doubt EA on anything.  Hell, they ruined and had some of the worst games ever.  But I can't say the same anymore.  With the release of the Battlefield series (especially BF:BC2), Dead Space, and their support behind some of the greatest companies out there, ei Valve, I've learned to almost trust them again.

 

Sure They will never have my full trust and I'm not going to believe for a second that they would actually bring back a classic shard, but just the fact that they actually acknowledged it and stated that they are thinking about it gives me that slight reason to hope.

 

Ultima Online, next to WoW, is still one of the best MMO's out there.  The only problem with it for me is that it has been so very long since I've played the game that I feel so left behind.

 

Lets just hope that EA is smart about UO again, and not just pulling our chains......again.

 

 

OMG. A moonstone. Remember when they started dropping before Tram/Fel was released, and the massive amounts of speculation regarding what they did/did not do?
 

Theres an entire generation of gamers out there that would look at that small drab screenshot and have no idea what took place in that wonderful, beautiful world.

 

Thats the saddest part.

That's exactly why UO is so amazing.  A stone, that eventually opened a portal to another world.  You had no idea what could be on the other side.

 

It's sad because you used to be able to find them anywhere.  To be honest, when I played in 2008, I don't remember really seeing any at all.

Best MMORPG:
Ultima Online
EVE Online
World of Warcraft
DayZ

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