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Ultima Online Column: Top 5 MMOs That Need Remakes
At 12 years of age, the MMO genre can now safely dive into the vaults and start remaking the games that got us all hooked. This week, we count down the five games we think are sorely in need of a re-imagining.
By Dana Massey on October 06, 2009
On September 25th, the MMO industry turned 12 years old. In 1997, Origin launched Ultima Online and while it wasn’t the first multi-player RPG (MUDs) or even the first one with graphics (Meridian 59), it was the first commercially visible game to hit the market and set off a chain of events that led to more half assed, poorly translated imported MMOs than anyone can possibly imagine.
So, at 12 years old, the MMO is now fully potty trained (bad launches are no longer tolerated, let alone expected), developed its own unique personality (namely fantasy, level-based MMOs) and, through a stroke of great luck, become financially independent (World of Warcraft).
Along the way, hundreds of games have come and gone, but the sequel (as we explored last week) has always been frowned upon. No one wants to mow through their own audience like an escaped circus cannibal.
But make no mistake. MMO years are not like human years. A 12 year old game is collecting social security checks. So what happens when a game that was once glorious no longer has an audience to cannibalize? Do you make a sequel? Do you update the graphics? Or, do you just let it die?
Here at MMORPG.com, we vote remakes. It’s time for a modern, fully featured reimagining of the games that got us all started.
So far, we’ve gotten a few attempts. NetDevil is working on Jumpgate: Evolution and NCsoft has Guild Wars 2 on the way. They also gave us Lineage II and Square Enix is about to kick in Final Fantasy XIV. Of course, SOE became the poster child for audience cannibals with EverQuest II and there was also the debacle Turbine’s Asheron’s Call 2, but generally, sequels/remakes should be a bankable proposition.
So, in today’s MMORPG.com List, we count down the five MMO remakes we don’t just want, we demand.
;)
#5 – Asheron’s Call
Yes, they already made a sequel and yes, it bombed worse than an Eddie Murphy movie, but Turbine has learned a lot since they sullied the legacy of one of the grandfathers of the MMO genre.
Launched in November of 1999, Asheron’s Call has already lived years beyond its sequel. There was a time, believe it or not, when for all intents and purposes the “MMO industry” consisted of three starkly different games: Ultima Online, EverQuest and, of course, Asheron’s Call. It was always the weaker sibling, but that’s kind of like being the least talented Staal brother (Canadians will get this joke).
Why It Was Awesome
AC employed a kind of hybrid advancement system. Players earned experience points and could spend them on what they want. It was a very smart hybrid between the “you are what you do” of UO and the “you are who you pick” of EQ. What’s more, while AC has levels, they are not the be-all and end-all as they are in pretty much every other game these days. It’s just a way to quantify how far you’ve progressed and what skills are available to you.
The game also had a legendary stance towards PvP. Darktide anyone? AC’s PvP server is easily the most hardcore and legendary ever put into action. Darktide players could routinely gnaw on the bones of even the most grizzled Darkfall fans.
The land of Dereth was also awesome. It was an open world, refreshingly populated by original ideas. MMOs are not only pigeonholed in Fantasy, they’re pigeonholed by bastardized Tolkien fantasy (or, as Turbine would later discover, actual Tolkien fantasy). AC is a unique world, with unique races, unique history and a truck load of originality. It’s something worth expanding upon.
Story is also the number one reason Asheron’s Call was awesome: Live events! No one does them well anymore. They’re too corporate, too planned, and too stuffy. With a truly unique MMO IP like Asheron’s Call and the help of modern technology, this could be the perfect commercially viable vehicle to truly tell stories in a virtual world.
Why The Old Game Isn’t Good Enough Anymore
See the screenshots? I’m sorry to people who play it, but it’s just been too long.
A simple graphics overhaul is always a bad idea. It pisses off those guys still shelling out money for the old game and really just polishes a turd for the rest of us. No one wants to dive into a game that old, that ingrained. We want a new experience and as we approach the game’s 10th birthday, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that someone give it a try.
Some Ideas To Make The Remake Shine
Obviously, they need to capture the essence of what made Asheron’s Call awesome, but there has to be some new ideas too. There are things that could make AC’s remake a hit.
The first is the use of modern server technology to create the first non-space, single-world MMO. The biggest hindrance to MMO storytelling is that everyone plays on different servers. With one big world, AC could get around it. The technology is out there, someone just needs a reason to use it. AC is that reason.
The second idea is to finally deliver on the promise of the game’s magic system. It isn’t like other games. It’s complicated, it’s cool and with modern UI and graphics, it could actually be done. The original idea was to have a complex system where users created their spells. It was dangerous, and has more in common with the idea of spell weaving – think the Aes Sedai in Wheel of Time – than “click to cast” as MMO magic has become. They never made it happen in the original AC, but it doesn’t mean it cannot be done.
Bottom Line
A story driven fantasy MMO in a single world with a unique character advancement system, a totally new take on MMO magic, and some of the most hardcore PvP areas online… Turbine, you’ve got some work to do.
;)
#4 – Anarchy Online
Let’s go back to the summer of 2001. Funcom, now better known for Age of Conan, launched the first real science fiction MMO. The initial slate of MMOs were fantasy themed, and say what you will about its launch, at least someone had the balls to try a new genre.
As far as terrestrial science-fiction MMOs go, there still isn’t all that much out there. Star Wars Galaxies has a well documented history, and Tabula Rasa is the Waterworld of MMOs.
Yet, along comes Funcom’s Anarchy Online. The quirky Norwegians have continued to develop and expand this game over its eight years of commercial operation. And while they have their hands full with Conan and the upcoming Secret World, maybe they should go back to the game that got it all started?
Why It Was Awesome
Anarchy Online took all the cool bits of the MMO genre and wrapped it in a snazzy, futuristic reality controlled by a shady corporation.
Players choose from a variety of really exciting classes: Adventurer, Agent, Bureaucrat, Doctor, Enforcer, Engineer, Keeper, Martial Artist, Meta-Physicist, Nano Technician, Shade, Soldier, and Trader. While most of these have some kind of fantasy MMO equivalent, their names alone were enough to get me drooling back in 2001.
This is also the game that invented instancing, love it or hate it. They have dynamic missions tailored to the characters involved, which are a popular part of the game.
Why The Old Game Isn’t Good Enough Anymore
The problem I always had with Anarchy Online is that while it promised so much, it never really delivered for me. I wanted the experience of being a Bureaucrat and when I read that, I thought I’d be embroiled in cut-throat sci-fi politics. Turns out I was actually some kind of weird combat class.
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i agree with all except City of Heros... no thanks
you need daoc in there too
AC was pretty much "remade" and it failed
honestly, sometimes things are better left alone, and most of these mmos would never fly in the new markets without being noobified which means they'd suck
It helps if you read the list before trashing it ;)
DAoC is #2 and AC2 is addressed.
I thought AO was getting a Graphics update sometime in the future...they were going to use AOC engine
I’m not surprised to see UO as number 1
What about Warhammer Online??
UO truly deserves the number 1 spot, I am sure there are some secret plans inside EA about that game.
Well, you put AC in there but there was AC2.....if you put them in might as well put in EQ as it has EQ2...and Vanguard to an extent.
Hmm, Champions Online is somewhat of a CoX part duece.....but under a different publisher but still the same original developers, Cryptic.
Personally, I want to see a new EQ so I can make a Beastlord!!! I also want to see a SWG pre-CU.....that would be the bomb!
They could remake SWG and just update the graphics, fix the bugs and wham....new game ready for launch.
There is no game out now that has really captivated me.....if there was I wouldn't be posting nonstop on this forum.
I have two Aion accounts but just cant seem to log in.....I have CO as well but again, just cant seem to log in. I am actually thinking of reopening EQ2.
I really hope SOE does another EQ type game but I am sure it will be for the console and for the WOW crowd, which means simple, easy and single scope in concept.
....remake a game from 2008...
I also enjoy hockey.
Some good stuff on there, except for CoHs really.
I'm surprised, I would have actually though that Shadowbane would be in here as well. With the proper technology, that game would have rocked the PvP market. It had great potential for both the system and the graphics but at least the graphics would need a rework and better servers so city siege could go smoother and be much more enjoyable.
I would like to disagree on City of Heroes, I don't think a revamp would help it more. The game has already got a sequel that remained in the same style and I think NCSoft can push updates to keep the game going and change it.
In my book :
#1 - UO
#2- Asheron's Call
#3 - Anarchy Online
#4 - DAOC
#5 - ??? COH dont belong there.
Would love a DAoC remake as I think it would be epic. The rest I could care less about really although UO would be solid as well.
I think a redone Anarchy Online would be a big hit.
Also, DAoC would do well too....three factions, that would definitely work well. I only played that game for a short while but it was nice when I did.
Shadowbane, the guy who got me to play CoH used to preach about SB all the time....that was his favorite. I did buy it and log in but that was about it........However, the PvP was well done, from what I heard, wasnt just killing ppl.
I think you missed swg (or at least a remake of the concept), but the list was fun to read. Good article.
An UO remake... I completely agree on your #1.
How the hell no one has copied it, and how the hell EA hasn't decently remade it (sure, there were several attempts, all canceled before release) baffles me. It's like they don't want the MMO genre to stray away from the Themepark and to go back to Sandbox, because that's what a decent UO remake would cause to the MMO genre.
One of the cool things about SciFi is guns - plasma, laser, phaser, lightning, BFG, etc. The crappy thing about every SciFi MMO is guns. The problem is that when I whip out a laser pistol and shoot a parrot, I expect to create instant fried chicken, a puff of feathers, or a puff of smoke. Instead, SciFi MMOs make you pewpew the frakkin bird from across the map until it's next to you poking your eyes out before you get it to corpse status.
Planetside had a similar expectation problem. If I stick a chain gun into your bellybutton and pull the trigger I really don't think I'm going to miss over your shoulder, but that was how the Planetside chain gun worked. What moronic creatures would create such a useless weapon, much less actually try to use it in combat? A brick would be more effective.
The gun problem just blows chunks and basically pushes me to skip SciFi MMOs.
Honestly I don't think any of these games need remakes. We like to wax nostalgic about the games of yester-year and remember how good they were, but really they were only good then because that's when and how they happened.
Remakes would end up being great for a little while, but they would be too changed from the original (because of technical or gameplay improvements made over the years) to hold the former players for long. You might get new players, but there would have to be enough throwback to the old game that it might intimidate new players.
Plus some of these games already have remakes in the form of sequels. It would be hard not to argue that Champions is a remake/sequel of CoH.
If anything, I'd say we need to remake games that had potential but failed. Remake Vanguard, which had so much cool stuff but a dev team that was more interested in sniffing crank than following through. Remake Asheron's Call 2 which did a lot of new and interesting things (I mean come on, I could throw bees at people ) but never really seemed to catch on. Remake Auto Assault which brought new and cool ideas into the genre, but again had a dev team that couldn't pull it off. Remake Planetside, which had plenty of potential with the idea of battle for territory and epic wars but failed to hold attention for long. Heck remake World War 2 Online but switch it to modern day a la CoD4. CoD4 as an MMO? Hell yeah!
I will have to stand behind you on UO in the #1 spot.
Another EA blunder I would like to see remade and that is Earth & Beyond. I was just getting into the game when EA hit it with the Out-of-NoWhere-Axe-of-Banishment for OVER 9000!!!
Heck and to a lesser degree, Motor City Online.
forget CoH & put Shadowbane in there. That's a game that worth redoing big time. How come none of these guys ever mention it?!
Star Wars Galaxies need to be remaked! Why not a rollback to pre-cu and apdate the graphics lawl
I TOTALLY agree with UO, AO, and DAoC. There are, arguably, the best MMOs of their time, but in serious need of updating. I'd resub to any of the three should they get revamped.
PS: For the love of all things holy, breaking this tiny blog entry down into 3 pages just to get more hits/ad revenue is a slimy tactic. There was enough content for ONE page, not three. Please don't be slimy.
I'd put DAoC first. If they do ever remake it they will likely screw it up, but I would like to see them give it a shot. I would like to see fewer over powered abilities and gear, less tedious crafting, and more focus on RvR instead of 8v8.
I would also have SWG on the list. I was never a Star Wars junkie or anything, but that was my favorite game to just hang out and do nothing but listen to music in the cantina, decorate my house, go shopping for good deals on gear, or just play with my pets.
If they remade and re-modernised UO from the ground up . . . . it would never feel as good as the original did back in its day.
I would still give it a shot tho purely for the sake of it.
I say that not only as Chriswsm but as Lysandar Threat of Trinsic.
Needs more EQ and Shadowbane
In no particular order
Auto assault (good game but launch shadowed by WoW iirc)
Planetside
EvE online (maybe something realtime and physics based this time around?)
UO!
That is pretty much what I was going to say. Want to know why UO has never been properly remade? two little letters... E.A.
I also second the vote for Earth & Beyond. Although the genre is being flooded a bit, back then it was one of few games to delve into outer space. If someone took the IP and developed it the way it should have been from the beginning, I would go back to it without a seconds thought...
I also fully agree with AO, and no I don't think the engine upgrade is going to be enough. Though I am really not sure that they are willing to pump more into it what with AoC out and TSW in development now.
We don't do it to be slimy, we do it because at nearly 4,000 words that thing would be an epic scroll bar and it's very easy to lose your place in an article like that.
Generally we break pages every 1200 or so words, which is normally not an issue since most articles run 1200 or less.
UO and DAOC, obvious choices. In that order.
It's amazing that no one's made a sandbox that's as much as a sandbox as the original. We've had a few others, but really, even the big ones like EVE and classic SWG are themeparks compared to UO.
And DAOC, a few have tried to borrow the RvR idea, but they always muck it up by changing it too much. It's like RvR, except only two realms? Or RvR, except without the well developed PvE? Or three realms, but they're all thrown together Gaheris-like? Wth?
The other three? Meh, whatever.
Excellent article, i was actually having a talk with some people just yesterday on why they havent made a UO sequel, amazes me too.
Asheron's Call is a definite remake for me. I'd pay good money to play Asheron's Call with some updated graphics, sounds, etc. It was my first graphic MMO and the first MMO that I had any responsibility in (GM).
There already making planetside 2.
I agree with you. Replace CoH with SB. It is still going and was truly epic in its prime. It deperately needs a serious graphics overhaul and class balancing instead of new classes that imbalance everything (good game pre-vamp).
I played all the games on this list. UO got me hooked, AC (true love) and DAoC kept me for 5 years. AO was fun but the graphics make your eyes bleed no matter how much you love content over graphix.
Good article. Not many worth reading here usually, but this one got my attention.
Pre-CU SWG should have made the list somewhere but only if it was remade by somebody other than SOE.
Great List And for those who mention AC2, It really was nothing like the original AC. It was more like SWG and the NGE, a completely different beast altogether. The magic system in AC that was mentioned was a journey itself. At the beginning you would find tons of people standing around reagent vendors just spamming combinations trying to discover spells. I do wish they were really able to implement the "the more people using the spell the weaker it becomes overall" Idea. I'm not sure if they did or not, I never noticed a lowering in power, but if it had been working there probably wouldn't have been all the spell creation calculators out there and people really would have hoarded their spells.
There already making planetside 2.
I'll believe it when I see it. Its not even past the design stage yet.
Makes some interesting points, my one confusion is why is Mythic being spoken of as if it were still its own entity? It was purchased by EA and merged with Bioware specifically to handle the server needs of ToR.
It's a good list. I really want to see an AC1 and DAOC sequel. Turbine and Mythic both have the capabilities to make true sequels of these 2 games, I don't know what it'll take to get them to do it.
And no, AC2 wasn't a true sequel to AC1, WAR isn't a true sequel to DAOC, just as EQ2 isn't a true sequel to EQ1. Please MMO developers, we want original gameplay but with better graphics, better engine, and updated features. When you change the gameplay too much, it becomes a totally different game. Kinda like movie directors that change sequels too much from the original and end up bombing at the box office.
I'd pay quite a steep subscription fee for a remake of Shadowbane.
Play to crush bitch.
Good article, Dana. I really enjoyed reading it.
I would, however, have included Guild Wars in the list.
Yes, I know all about Guild Wars 2, and it sounds like it's going to be a great game. BUT... while Guild Wars 2 is a "remake" of Guild Wars, it is a remake that -- very sadly, in my opinion -- cuts out the single best feature of the original Guild Wars game: customizable henchmen that you can use when your friends and guildmates are not online or that you can use to complete a party if you can't find enough people for a particular dungeon or mission.
I would really like to see a quality party-based MMO (Atlantica Online is totally not it!) in which you can play with a small group composed of either NPCs, players, or any combination of both.
Only Guild Wars had a feature like this; I really felt the concept still had a lot of life left in it. :(
On the horizon, GW2 and SWTOR offer 1 henchman apiece, which is ... OK, I guess, but this is not nearly as good as what Guild Wars had to offer. STO, alone among the upcoming MMOs, offers anything close to a feature like this, with its customizable NPC crews.
Good article I pretty much agree. UO remakes have been tried twice, bottom line the idiot money-men murdered both of them in the crib. Loved AC back in the beginning, would love to see that re-done without the massive changes they tried and failed with in AC2. Lot of potential out there for a company with intelligence and courage, both unfortunately very much lacking...
I completely agree with UO as #1, I remember being so excited when they announced a remake of the game and so disappointed when it got cancelled... I too have always wondered why no one ever stole the basic idea of UO and used it in another MMO... The fact that you could basically do anything you wanted in the game was just amazing to me and frustrating... I always loved being in a dungeon fighting a demon or dragon, and seeing someone pop up next to me and start attacking only to find out my Black Pearl was gone and I couldn't teleport out or even fight back magically since BP was needed for most of the offensive spells... :) I played that game from day one and tho I don't play anymore every once in a while I sign up for a couple of months just to experience it again...
I would also like to see them redo Earth and Beyond, I really did enjoy that game and was sad when it ended... The day it opened I got my copy by UPS at 8am loaded it (I had been playing the beta) and logged in... For 15 mins I was the only one in the universe... Until a guild mate finally signed on and we went hunting...
It helps if you read the list before trashing it ;)
DAoC is #2 and AC2 is addressed
In a previous mmo forum they said they are thinking of revamping the DAOC mmo so do not be thinking it will never come to be DAOC 2 is going to for sure it was and is a game they rules all mmo’s IMO .
Go for it MYTHIC get on the ball we need DAOC back these otherr games are not cutting the mustard!
I havent had the fortune to play most of these but I have played COH/COVand making a charactor was for the most part more interesting than the actual content which I call "THUG BASHING" which to me felt very grindy and repetitive and definatly did not feel very heroic I wanted to rescue people from burning buildings stop an astroid headed for the planet hell even getting a cat from a tree lol.
********
I might also put STAR WARS GALAXIES in this list everyone knows of its EPIC FAIL I think that if sony really got serious and steped back and look at all the errors and really addressed all the issues in a remake that it could be a big scifi contender.
get away from all that procedural crap and the generic spawn generators and make quests and content relevant and immersive and the players will come. dont dumb it down! dont say your adding a spece expansion and then players find out its a glorified x-wing arcade! have some balls (on my little pet peeve you didnt need to drink WATER on tatooine it was only used for medicine??? bleh! my example of crafting as an afterthought to the world.
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next on my list would be EVE ONLINE this game has its little nitch ind is prety serious at the economy but its still old and lacking in many reguards its planets and systems are nice but procedurally generic there for the most part just scenery and have no play in the game no fighting to claim them, no ground battles or orbital bombardment and no planetary resources (the commodities are abstract creations) the universe is lager 5000 + 2500 systems now i think but there is no insintive to explore if anything its far too lethal to even try because they have HARD CORE FREE FOR ALL PVP which is a casual players NOMANS LAND
My suggestion would be to update and improve the solar systems and add semi unique space objects overhaul their painfully stark misson system,, and limit PVP so casual players have more freedom EVE2 would probably exceed 1 million players in a month or so. the biggest reason im not playing EVE right now is that PVP is not how I want to enjoy eve and you cant excape it ieven in empire space they will "WARDEC" on non-combat corps which effectivly destroys them in short order.
there has allready been a mass exodus from EVE into LIMBO and when STAR TREK ONLINE goes live if its half as good as players expect the current EVE population will drop by as much as 1/3 or more leaving the hard core PVP jerks to go play with themselves.
no lastly a game that only bairly made it out of the gate SEED had a great story idea but bitterly TERRIBLE development
the story is that you wake up on a crashed teraforming coliny ship your ship is seriously damaged many things need repair, and you have no idea what awaits you outside this theme has so much potential it really needs someone to give it a real effort
you can spend the first part of the game just keeping the ship from exploding and getting life support working, finding food stores and equipment and getting the lights to stop flickering, then if that isnt enough you have several possibilities build an outpost, try to salvage the teraforming gear decide to bake a base underground, go exploring the number if mysteries and unknowns is enormous not to menton if there are anamals or aliens or even other colonies,, not even the color of the sky or planets or the climate is known its a whole new world to explore sounds fun to me!
the list was good, and it does really surprise me that UO hasn't been remade or EA hasn't churned out a sequel.
aren't they the company of the sequel? i mean look at the madden 200X games, i saw madden 09 next to 10 a few weeks ago.
yet they aren't going for churning out UO2 for extra money to make another sequel to make another sequal? very weird
as for Daoc, i think they should do a sequel, but just take all the stuff that people liked about daoc(the setting, the classes, the RvR, the builds) and just upgrade the graphics and maybe make clustering for everyone.
heck i'd play Daoc now, but there is only like 2500 people playing and it started to die when i started.
i would go for an eq revamp, new models, better spell effects, and updated server systems.
if sony wouldn't feel the need to destroy what made the classes fun, i wouldn't mind them changing some things.
as for SB, i have to really ask why people liked it?
i didn't find it the least bit interesting and the concept of player-run cites seemed only good on paper and never worked in practice
i've heard the horror stories from when the game started and how basically it basically turned into one guild controlling the server.
thats besides the hacking that went on, it was almost as bad as darkfall.
Shadowbane isn't on the list because it's already been remade. The remake is called Darkfall.
As to the article well yes thats a pretty good list and some decent reasons for doing it. Job well done really.
An actual SB sequel would be absolutely tremendous. I would instantly purchase a lifetime subscription. I would probably quit my job and become a hermit.
SB had such great character development and group PvP, it's a shame that people even equate DF with SB. The only features that are similar are FFA PvP and sieging.
UO, DAoC and AC would be also be on my list.
Darkfall isn't nearly the game Shadowbane was. Not by a long shot.
Sign me up for Asheron's Call 3!!!!!!
Lots of reasons players, at least thoughtful players, loved Shadowbane.
The character creation and development was the best in the history of gaming. Period. Not close.
The "world" PvP was good in and of itself. It had meaning. It was harsh, but not that harsh, really. You were always hunted by - or hunting - other players.
The siege system was unique. It still is actually. Nobody else has done it so well.
The player created politics were unmatched.
The mines, hotzones, rune-droppers -combined with experience gain through PvP - all of these were new in the market and worked well to generate conflict.
There were other great things about the game, and yes, quite a few bugs - especially early on. Still, I've played everything major and most things minor since UO - including all of the games on this list, (although never AC in its heyday) and nothing - nothing - comes close to Shadowbane. I'd play it now if I could. And I'd pay well for it.
I'm going to guess you didn't play very long at all. The learning curve was remarkably high and I suspect you didn't make it far ennough to understand or really participate in some of these things.
Lots of reasons players, at least thoughtful players, loved Shadowbane.
The character creation and development was the best in the history of gaming. Period. Not close.
The "world" PvP was good in and of itself. It had meaning. It was harsh, but not that harsh, really. You were always hunted by - or hunting - other players.
The siege system was unique. It still is actually. Nobody else has done it so well.
The player created politics were unmatched.
The mines, hotzones, rune-droppers -combined with experience gain through PvP - all of these were new in the market and worked well to generate conflict.
There were other great things about the game, and yes, quite a few bugs - especially early on. Still, I've played everything major and most things minor since UO - including all of the games on this list, (although never AC in its heyday) and nothing - nothing - comes close to Shadowbane. I'd play it now if I could. And I'd pay well for it.
I'm going to guess you didn't play very long at all. The learning curve was remarkably high and I suspect you didn't make it far ennough to understand or really participate in some of these things.
In his defense, I must say as someone who did make it far enough to explore the other concepts of the game, I (and many others), found far more flaws that hindered the short list of good things that you mentioned.
I will admit though, the character creation was one of the best part about SB.....but was that a good thing?
My List =)
5. Ultima
4. Everquest (I don' consider eq2 a remake)
3. Pirates of the Burning Sea
2. Planetside (don't care if there are rumors they are making a second one)
1. Horizons (aka Istaria)
Pretty good list Dana with the exception of CoH in my opinion, that doesn't belong on there. I'd swap in SWG instead of CoH.
I would slaughter an entire planets worth of babies and orphans if it meant Asheron's Call would get remade, especially if they fixed the magic system up a bit. That game was more fun to me than should be legal. So many awesome adventures getting lost in various dungeons...
*sniffle*
"Ultima Online is now 12 years old and technically the genre has not only long since technically passed it, it’s lapped it a few times."
roflmao
Horizons would be at the top of my list. Probably Matrix second since it is such a good IP for an MMO but they kinda missed it horribly witht he game. I'd really just want Horizons.
Planetside all day baby.
I never played AC (although friends have) but I did enjoy AC2. Specifically the unique classes. Throwing bees at people, rolling big boulders at people, building turrets and walls for your team to hide behind, and buffing classes that really made a difference. I understand that AC2 wasn't anything like AC besides a little bit of lore, but I'd definitely play an AC remake if it incorporated some of the great classes from AC2!
AO was another one to have some unique classes. Awesome pet classes, and the mechanics of the Trader. How cool and unique was the Trader? And the implant system was an incredible idea. But yes, the graphics, even when it first came out, were a bit off. Beautiful world, but the PC/NPCs just didn't do it for me. The random mission system made me fall in love with the idea and every game after that I have hoped and begged the higher powers to implement.
E&B with it's 3 types of experience was a great concept that definitely could have been even greater. Combat was fun and exciting, trade routes were slightly addictive, and spaceships. C'mon, spaceships man.. in SPACE! That right there is grounds for awesomeness. STO sounds like it could have some great features, but I'd love to see E&B2. Without EA. Cuz EA bites and kills anything that's good and wholesome.
DAoC I totally agree with most of what people have said. I think DAoC was the game that actually got me to enjoy PvP. Roving around with a group of friends, trying to sneak up on other roving groups. That's entertainment! The current games seem like it's either just 1 on 1 gankfests, or ZERGfest. Not to say that didn't happen in DAoC, but it seems overly prominent in recent games. I also like some of the class mechanics, although nothing was really a breakthrough like AC2 and AO classes. Still fun. The one thing that killed DAoC for me was the PvE questing... But then maybe WoW spoiled me and everyone else in this world.
I saw someone mentioned SEED. Man, what an awesome concept. It's a shame it never got further along.
Was amazingly diverse character creation a good thing? Well yes. It was. I'm not a fan of the "choose 1 of 4 archtypes ... now choose 1 of 3 skill trees ... now choose 8 of 30 powers ... now grind items" format. Shadowbane simply had the most diverse character building I've ever seen, and by a long shot. Was that too complex for your average gamer? Yes. Shadowbane didn't appeal to average gamers and I don't think it would have been a better game if it did.
As for the "short list of good things [I] mentioned," well, those things are huge features either never offered before, some even to this day - and others never done so well - in any game. Again, there were bugs that "hindered" the game, especially early on. I note you didn't list any of them, but it doesn't matter really. There were a few significant ones (sb.exe) and they were trivial next to the ground the game broke and the sheer fun and freedom it delivered.
Just my .02
on the point of the Game DAoC ... it was dinamic in the aspect of that you could rove in brute squads as we used to call them...
pimped out gear of one party a Unit, 2 healers a tank off tank and a CC mezzer a nuker or AoE'r and so on but the beauty of DAoC every one in a brute Squad knew their Job and did it ! Zerging was still in DAoC but in a unit such of 1 or 2 groups fast pace moving around the frontier looking for prey to jump mezzz and destroy ... also i loved the crafting and campaign for your set armor even though it was not great armour it looked sweet ! ! !
i trully miss the old school DAoC ! if they can make a new engine and revamp it and have the same lands just better GRFX and have the same weapons +some new ones but different skins on the weapons it would look great...
PS : Forgive the typos. :)
#1 New Age of Camelot
Dana, I really don't get your articles. They show a certain level of.. disconnect with the genre.
City of Heroes?
How about:
Star Wars Galaxies - Awesome game at start, bugs aside. Could use a revamp. Guess it's the old republic?
Everquest or Everquest 2 (new engine is all it needs, and maybe refined combat with chains and such). One of the more underrated games out today.
The rest of your list is ok...
Like Hell...
Tabula Rasa, Neocron.
/thread
Gimme back my one of a kind MMOs!
The two obvious choices were WOW and FFXI.Square is basically by their admittance making FFXIV so the FFXI fans have a better looking game.Blizzard? umm they are just collecting money,waiting to make a few changes and calling it it an expansion and will again rob the blind,collecting more money.
EQ2 has already made some recent changes to make an already decent looking game even better looking so they squared up.
Ultima Online i guess is another,but like DAOC i have no interest in anything related to PVP.
I agree on that one, it is the top of my list.
Rent in some guys who actually worked on the Warhammer RPG game to remake the mechanics of the game and keep the engine and graphics. Add an actual endgame and some better RPG mechanics and youll get a huge game.
A remake of UO could be great but it could also fail miserably. The question is also if todays gamers would like it.
Didn't Champions online count as CoH2? The name and world differs but besides that are they close enough.
Everquest should be in the list too, preferably instaed of CoH. EQ2 isn't really a remake of EQ, and even if you think it is it came far too soon. But now should be a good time for a remade EQ.
However it is my opinion that remaking old games isn't the right way for the MMOs to go. We need new fresh ideas, not more of the games we already seen. If you want a good RvR game then my bet is on Guildwars 2 instead of DaoC 2.
Arenanet are working hard to evolve the MMO genre, Mythic havn't made much new stuff in a long time and while Daoc was a great game for its time i don't think a version with modern graphics could compete with GW2.
Completely agree. I would play DAoC 2 in a heartbeat....it was why I was so excited, then ultimately let down by Warhammer Online.
I hope Mythic is reading this...
Everquest 2s engine is actually quite ok, since they updated it for multi core processors, put a lot of the workload on the GPU and updated the shader it actually look pretty good.
They could still inplement those new character models they have been talking about for years but besides that it is still one of the better looking games out there. Not in class with AoC or AION but besides them it is in class with pretty much all modern MMOs. Try a trial again and youll see.
Chains in the combat could add some fun but it actually isn't that much better. A better AI for monsters however would be a good idea.
As for EQ I am all with you.
Id be interested in a ultima re-vamp! loved the game - pvp was amazing for its time.
Agree with them all except CoH. How about a DDO remake instead?
Funny....I never played any of those MMO's, with the exception of I played City of Villians for a short time. I started with EQ and stuck with it for fours years. Which BTW, to the person who mentioned EQ... there is yet another EQ in the works as we type, Everquest Next.
I'd like to see Freelancer done as a full scale MMO instead of just a single/Multi-player game. LOVED the comms chatter (Added to immersion), missions, etc. If they redid EVE with some features from Freelancer it might actually be more enjoyable. A Space MMO that actually added the ability to dock at stations and leave your ship to do missions within the space station, visit the bar, mingle with other players, buy/sell with vendors would be awesome. Even the ability to enter planet orbits and explore the surface...even if limited would be a breath of fresh air (No pun intended).
EVE is suppose t be adding station venturing, but I don't know to what extent. Not sure on Jumpgate Evolutions features.
Love the write-up. I feel that some games do need the overhaul, but some should be left as is and perhaps a new games released under the title (UO for instance). Why not Ultima Online 2? Expand upon it and move forward.
UO had awesome "remake". It was called Wish.
The owner of the company desided he wont get rich fast with it so he sold the games assets to highest bidder, which unfortunately led to disaster called Irth Online.
I betaed Wish from the start and I'd sell my soul to devil if Wish was resurrected.
While people seek remakes they seem to forget these games are still great games. In fact DAOC is the best of its genre' to date and why i still play it. I spent years and dollars looking for a game that was half as good and i never found it. Newer isn't always better. People that refuse to play a game do to age are really missing out. With that being said i would reverse some changes made to the game over the years namely removing New Frontiers and replacing it with Old Frontiers and i would also get rid of in game maps, teleporting between keeps, etc, etc.
Remove City of Heroes (a mindless and repetitive pve-game = awesome? come on) and add PlanetSide to that list methinks :).
SWG is clearly a missing candidate for remake. I've never seen another game with such a devoted fan-base from the earlier versions. I never played it, but it looks like SOE buried it alive to try to compete with WoW. Can't say that worked, did it? ~grin~
Ken
Mortal Online = UO remake.
In MY book...
1: Asheron's Call.
2: DaoC
3: Everquest
4: UO
5: SWG
oh yes! remake UO with a modern engine and I would definitely be there. I played almost every MMO out there, but I mised UO (was into Underlight and The Realm at that time).
I think this is an awesome list and agree with all your picks. You are right about DAoC particularly. I am not usually into pvp but the RvR in DAoC swept everyone up to defend their realm :) Spent many happy months there..
One of the elements I particularly enjoy (as a break from fighting mobs) is the crafting aspect and this has been good, bad and indifferent in so many games.. whatever the remake give us good (and useful) crafting!!
I would really love to see a Neocron remake.
But I guess it could only happen if Black Prophecy is going to be a success and even then it isn't too probable.
As much as I enjoy playing CoH, in my opinion it does not belong on your list. I'm sure a remake of it will be interesting if they do it right but it hasn't yet reached a point where it's been put out to pasture and needs a remake and it certainly shouldn't be higher on the list than AC.
I disagree strongly with remakes, so far I have not seen any successfull one both in subscriber numbers as in quality and gameplay. On the contrary, they tend to split the remaining playerbase in 2.
An example of how it should be done is of course EVE Online. Sure they still have alot to do ( fix and improve the sound system for example ), but overall they really have EVE Online 2.0 in terms of graphics and gameplay.
LOTRO is also on the right track. And I guess WoW is not doing bad either.
Others realise this is the way to go, like Ankama, who are making Dofus 2.0 http://www.dofus.com/uk/mmorpg/dofus2.0
Everything can be changed and improved, there are no limits, it only has to be done gradually in small steps.A complete or large gameplay revamp in 1 patch can be a disaster ( see DAoC New Frontiers ). Also completely redisigning the fundamentals of an mmo is a no-no ( see SWG CU and NGE ). But regular cosmetical upgrades, and free content additions, that is the only good way to go with mmo's imho.
To me It is obvious, the games I mentioned are one the few that stil grow, I wonder how come others do not realise this.
DAOC and the original AC are the only 2 I would care to see remade. 2 games I spent many enjoyable hours playing.
Everquest 2 is FAR from a remake of Everquest.
I have played MMO's since 1998 and more than anything, I wish there would be a new Everquest based upon the first title (style, dungeon crawling, non instancing, etc.) With a few upgrades of course, like a more interesting combat system for non casters, and a robust PvP system, not just a PvP server option that is worldwide.
EQ was hands down the best MMO in my book and there are many former (and current) players like myself that have been hoping for 5+ years that a new Everquest based on the original game and mechanis would be developed. EQ2 lacks the community that Everquest had, and it truly was a game that revolutionized the MMO market more than anything released in the past 4 years.
<3 EQ
Sometimes I dream that DAoC2 would come out... and then I wake up :(
Great list, although I agree with almost everyone in this thread that COH does not belong. It is easily replaced with a remake of Star Wars Galaxies or Shadowbane. Surprised neither were on your list, SWG especially!
To anyone that makes the error that AC2 has already been made just shows your ignorance. AC2 failed because Turbine tried to make a EQ clone. It was nothing like AC at all. Most AC1 players did not like it at all because it was so different.
#1 - THE MATRIX ONLINE
At least in my opinion, such a better job could have been done with this IP. If ever there were an IP that worked amazingly for an awesome MMO... and tyet it was poop with terrible game design and pretty much terrible everything.
A MUCH better treatment of the IP is needed.
Best thing about UO was the PvP. I played a GM Theif and for once, I had a skill where I could be a jerk to those that ganked me out in the world while fishing. *Bank! Guards!*
I played COX for 2+ years and am currently trying Champions. But I strongly agree that COX needs a remake: Champions is not any really different from COX. COX is dead as it's currently become a game where everything that concern the playes is the visual customization of your hero; no serious gameplay ideas have been implemented in the last 2 years. COX is currently only a levelling and grinding fest: you roll an alt, you grind it to 50, you grind if you want it to spec it with uber sets (read "gear") and then you start anew. No epic level content after level 50. It was so in Issue 6 when I started in 2006 it's still that way now after 3 years.
COX never addressed its lack of endgame content, epic battles between heroes and villains were never on the plans of the devs, the fastest pvp I had the chance to experience was "rebalanced" in Issue 13 but nothing has been done afterward. Base raids are still buggy and don't get any love (nor I think they will get it in the upcoming Going Rogue expansion) neither zone pvp will get any new ideas in the next future; maybe that's because COX players aren't interested in pvp, or maybe because balancing pvp in that game is really hard.
Anyway, I agree with Dana: that game does not make you feel heroic (or villainous): you can't create your evil plot, you cant' fight the evil and see its effect in the world. You cannot have your "real" nemesis, your real "hated" supergroup or villain group and invade their base, steal their things, destroy their base, foil their plans. You just level as usual gaining some powers but when you reach the top you don't have anything epic to do.
You cannot fight a global threat and see that your fight has an effect in the world, you cannot help an evil power and see the result of your actions in the world.
And then, regarding customization, Champions did not deliver on the "create your powers" side: you only have a long list of powers from which you can pick, you cannot really create your own (anybody remembers Freedom Force? that was the way!); I am even so bold to say that the current COX can deliver on that promise more than what CO will ever do.
I completely agree!! Star Wars Galaxies should be on the list! But I would personally love to see a new and improved Anarchy Online!
BTW, does anyone know what is going on with Star Trek Online?
While i like the idea of a DAoC 2 i really like to see a Tribes3.
1. UO
2. AO
3. DAoC
4. AC
5. SWG Pre-cu Made by anyone other than SOE
Being pretty sure a City of ... 2 is in its early development stages I don't think a remake would be a wise decision, now that Champions Online is basically nothing else than CoX 2.0.
My list:
- The Dark Age of Camelot
- Planetside
And there it ends. I'm hoping for some new original IPs with virtual worlds.
Good article, with a lot of great points.
Again, as stated, couldn't agree more with your #1 and #2 choices, UO and DAoC.
Everyone who ever played DAoC knows why RvR was awesome, and they keep repeating it. Then Mythic ignored it with WAR to make it a bastard child of WoW and DAoC that no one really wanted.. Where are the destructible keeps? The perssitant battlegrounds? Free-moving siege? Did you guys completely forget everything you learned from DAoC for t his crap?
As for UO, well, I like many others could spout on for hours. Come back after what is now 12 years, and see how many people still at least occasionally play their current MMO. You'll never find a higher degree of customer loyalty.
As a side note, I also noticed, what is it about Trinsic that makes people so loyal? It's the only city mentioned in message boards with any connotation of citizenship....Yeah, Trinsic is awesome. My entire guild was focused around that city.. I've been resubbed for about a year or so now to UO.. I've spent well over 90% of my time there, crafting, working up skills, getting houses closer to the city gates, demolishing, repeating.. Sadly, all by myself... But since I"m in Trinsic, it's like I don't care!
100% on in regards to daoc - and I've been there since 2002 roughly - and last night :) But, what else is there to play? :/
My list.
1) Asheron's Call: Pretty much new graphics, more skills that are useful and reign in the levels a bit more. That is one of the reasons I don't go back to AC, my highest (even if I could remember the password) was only in his late 30s/early 40s back when I left, high level now is like 162 (or higher). Who wants to start at the bottom when most of the people playing are well past that point?
2) Anarchy Online (The first MMO where I was the guild leader). Needs some better animations, lose the expansions and get back to the core of the game, Omni v Clan. Open up some new skill lines (like diplomacy for bureaucrats) and instead of completely dynamic missions, make the missions dynamic, but leave the buildings static. It was a real immersion kill when I walked into a building in OT to find that it was the inside of a dead snake... Or some random hole in the wilderness that is a subway station. Also, where are all the people who were supposed to be working in those facilities? Those are some areas they could really improve upon. Last thing here is levels, make leveling slower, but make fewer levels. It is really easy to lose scale (especially in a PvP world) where you have 100+ level spreads.
3) Shadowbane: Fix the hacks, fix the UI (probably the worst thing in that game), open up the ability to cross 'shards' as they had originally planned (which would allow for more... interesting expansions where new shards are found), I'd like to see some serious upgrades in city building (ability to build larger cities, multi guild cities, roads, the ability to expand 'laws' to surrounding territories, etc). And for a finally, they had the best lore I've EVER seen for a custom IP MMO, incorporate that into the system better.
Dana, I really don't get your articles. They show a certain level of.. disconnect with the genre.
City of Heroes?
How about:
Star Wars Galaxies - Awesome game at start, bugs aside. Could use a revamp. Guess it's the old republic?
Everquest or Everquest 2 (new engine is all it needs, and maybe refined combat with chains and such). One of the more underrated games out today.
The rest of your list is ok...
I think you answered your own questions. With SWTOR on the way, SWG would be a silly suggestion. No way it's happening. And EQII is a bit too recent, plus they did Vanguard too.
CoH was admittedly the weakest one on the list, but I have my reasons ;)
LOL - Given I (and a couple others here) worked on Wish, I can say you have a slightly distorted view of what happened at the end of Wish. Trust me, no one misses that one more than I do, but it would be a giant conflict of interest for me to toss that on there given I was the Co-Lead Game Designer for it ;) Plus, I was only counting launched games. We already did the canned list.
Isn't Mortal Online basically a remake of UO?
Also instead of city of heroes I think Runescape should be there... nexgen runescape playstyle would be intresting to see.
I would sub for UO AC and DAoC remakes all at the same time, would be worth $45 a month.
I still play AC but I would (and I'm sure everyone else still playing) love it to be redone with modern graphics and a more enhanced skill tree. I know there's a couple people who said the old cliche of "They already did that, AC2." But those same people obviously never played either game. Although AC2 did share the name it was only because it took place in the same world, it wasn't a sequel in the way that EQ2 is. It was an entirely different game, and I think the goal for that was to have to games out in the same world that wouldn't steal players from each other. So no AC2 wasn't really a sequel, it was a truly different game and not one that stuck.
UO I've tried to go back to a few times but I agree with your statement on it, you start playing and it just feels old. And that turns you off for whatever reason and you leave it again.
I've never tried to go back to DAoC but I doubt I could even try that one without some modernization to it.
This article should be displayed once a month on this site and sent out in email form to the respective developers. While I would only be interested in an AC or UO remake in the mold/manner discussed in this article, I'm sure their are plenty of fans of all these games who'd love to experience a new look and new adventures in these worlds (and by all means these were worlds, not the trivial "games" that are 90 day wonders that are predominantly made today).
Good write-up Dana.
id really like to see AO remade (not just a graphics update)
AO still stands out for me as one of the most indepth and fun MMO games ever
Ofcourse i still dream back to the SWG glory days too but that will never be realised
Solid list, though like others...I agree CoH could easily be replaced by EQ, SWG, or Matrix Online (for varying reasons). But personally (and I am one of few), I want Tabula Rasa remade with more content...not too many sci-fi mmos, and it's content was great (till it ran out).
I would love to see some of them remade just to try them out in 'new' glory, since I missed out on a few (though EQ & AC I did have a bit of fun with). I just hope the current MMOs in the works (some spiritual successors or close to remakes) are on paar with the void in the industry (or so it seems) of reusing ideas for the good, and not for the ease of duplicating :/
Note...I did say Tabula Rasa, I must be insanely bored or crazy or both.
the NGE should be "remade" back into pre-cu.
but since this has inexplicably failed to appear as #1 on your list or even top-5 for that matter i trust it will appear on your next week's "top 5 epic fail remakes" column on the #1 position as it deserves.
I don't know if it counts as an MMO but I'd like to see NWN 2 get a sequal or "Remake" I suppose. The ability to make your own world and populate it yourself with NPCs, treasure, storyline and quests can far beat out any premade set in stone MMO.
Personally I'd put LOTRO at the top simply because I've always been a huge tolkien fan. Turbine did an ok job with LOTRO until the release of Moria but from then on its all downhill imo.
I'd love to see another company give Middle Earth a shot because I know it could be done much much better. Graphics arnt everything and thats about all LOTRO has going for it. Not including character model graphics of course...lol
How the hell has this not been redone yet?
Seriously? I am baffled.
Whoever's in charge of making decisions regarding the development of UO must be one dumb sob. What were they thinking when they decided that slowly turning this one of a kind game into another dumbed down themepark MMO is the right way to go? Or maybe the better question to ask in this case would be: WERE they thinking at all? It's almost as if they're trying to deliberately run the game into the ground and ruin its reputation along the way.
A few people have mentioned UO2, but you have to remember that it, too, just like all of the latest expansions, was supposed to feature a themepark type experience. It's a real shame those money grubbing bastards at EA fail to realize what gem they have on their hands, and that they for some reason (probably stupidity) believe that stealing crappy ideas/features/systems from other games and incorporating them into Ultima Online is somehow going to bring them money.
I'd really like to see a remake of the original game some day, but I doubt it's ever going to happen. It just makes too much sense. Hell, an oldschool ruleset server (or a few) would bring a lot of people back, but they won't even do that. Even though it could probably be done in a few days...
Don't even get me started about MO. It should be obvious to everyone by now that the people involved in the development of that game don't know wtf they're doing and are going to fail miserably.
Yeah right... This *is* EA after all...
If they had any intention of doing UO2 they would have long since done so.
I would like to see a new CoX, though I am interested to see Marvel, the other super hero games look lame. Make CoX into a sandbox type MMO way off the beaten path of the other Superhero MMOs. Maybe take all of the PreCU SWG ideas and make a superhero game out of that.
I'd like to see planetside on that list - or at least something with real time combat and 3 factions.
UO
AC1
DOAC
EVE
ShadowBane
AC1 remade not ac 3... AC2 was a diff. game,
wow would need a model and graphic update
OK, since it keeps coming up, you're getting my answer as to why I left SWG off. There were a few reasons:
#1) SWTOR - No one is going to remake a game when someone else is making another game in that universe. Probably not even legally possible.
#2) You're not talking about a remake, you're talking about a reversion. If this was the top 5 games that got worse over time, then you'd have a good argument. This wasn't what I was writing about. Although, that might be a future list, and I assure you, SWG would be in the top 2 ;) (UO would have an argument too)
#3) Generally people only remake successful games. By their own standards, every game on this list was successful. SWG, by its standards, was not. That's why they did the NGE. I realize it's not popular, but people often forget that the game was in such a state that the company felt compelled to totally redo it midstream. A bonehead decision? Sure, but they didn't do it just to piss you off, they did it because they felt that's what they had to do to ensure the future of the product.
#4) Lastly, SWG only came out in 2003, which makes it newer in it's original state than 4 of the 5 games on the list. The only newer one, CoH is already getting me some flack for having it on there... and as I said, I have my reasons. SWG, as it exists today, has only existed since 2005. And visually - one of the main reasons to remake something - it is not really outdated.
I agree with everything on the list except COX. I'd play them all if they were remade.
One that you left off that I'd love to see resurrected is SWG... (yes, I know its still out there)
I agree with Ultima Online as well. It just baffles me that no one has even tried to rip it off and make a new game.
Also, nobody probably remembers this, but a Battletech MMO would be nice. I can't remember who was working on it originally, but it got tanked because of rights issues.
I agree with UO. Hell I'm back playing it now. Still the best but needs an overhaul. However, you need to try the new Stygian Abyss engine, much better than KR...
UO is still the best sandbox and PvP....
On a further note... for a remake of UO, I would keep the isometric view and add zoom and camera rotation functions, kinda like in Neverwinter Nights. That way you can zoom in up close and look at battles or scenery or whatever... and then zoom out for a more functional view.
Eh, I could go on and on and on... but I won't.
I wish SWG was in the list but I agree, UO deserves a remake. The new SA beta client is a dream come true as far as making the old game more enjoyable but most of the graphics are still in 2D, which I kind of like since I'm nastalgic like that.
I totally agree with everything except CoH.
I believe a super hero MMO is more than enough.......now we have 3 (and another one in the making Marvel Online).
What's the point of a new one when CoH is not exactly obsolete either?
I would have put in the list a decent EQ remake............sorry but EQ2 is not what I mean.
What I am talking about is a heavily centered PVE game with a strong focus on community interaction and group play, none of that solo bullshit.....there are already too many MMO around who cater for solo players.
But the thing I cannot agree more with Dana is the UO issue.
How on earth nobody ever even tried to rip off the concept of that game and update it with modern technology is beyond my comprehension.
Yes I do agree it is not a game for everyone, but still I believe that now there is a new big market for that kind of game that wasn't there 10 years ago.
Look at the hype around Darkfall Online, and that was made by an unknown indie dev.
Can you imagine if UO is made in aAAA format by a AAA developer?
Lol EA is sleeping big time there.
Of course the new UO will kill the old one but if they do it the right way, they could get 10 times the subscribers they have at the moment.
City of Heroes has a sequel its called Champions Online. Its the same developer and the game was designed to be the sequel to COH. This isn't up for debate, they remade COH and its called Champions Online, end of story.
How sad is it that a writer made it to the front page of mmorpg, who didn't even know NCSoft was a PUBLISHER. They wern't even a good publisher, they canceled Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa... I don't trust NC Soft with any game, they want to suck it dry and then forget it ever existed. Richard Garriot the man behind Ultima Online and Tabula Rasa is suing them now after they canned his last game.
As far as where I would like to see sequels. I agree Anarchy Online and Dark age of Camelot. While I wish I could say Warhammer was a sequel; it was a game built with the spirit of a sequel, but in the end failed to compare.
Games not on the list I would love to see remade include Earth and Beyond, and Planetside.
Why put CoH on there? It's still a great game and they are still constantly making improvements on it all the time. The game will probably receive a graphical update with the new expansion "Going Rogue" and they are constantly adding new game systems and new gameplay features to the game.
I do kind of hope they make a CoH 2 eventually, but as it stands now CoH is still a good fun game that can easily compete with the new games on the market.
Planetside! oh wait, they're already making another =P
Excellent list.
My personal order would have been:
5-Shadowbane
4-Anarchy Online
3-DAoC
2-Asheron's Call
1-Ultima Online
I feel Asheron's Call and Ultima Online deserve higher places because of the 'classless' approach to their advancement, and their more free form approach to loot drops. Shadowbane deserves a spot because of its rich lore, its fantastic advancement system,and its then unique approach to city development (for an MMO). (Not to mention picking out advantages and disadvantages at character creation was alot of fun.)
Asheron's Call 2 was definately not a worthy successor to the original AC. Take a classless, open world game and turn the sequel into a class based game with a very linear world... yeah, some people just don't get it.
OK, since it keeps coming up, you're getting my answer as to why I left SWG off. There were a few reasons:
#1) SWTOR - No one is going to remake a game when someone else is making another game in that universe. Probably not even legally possible.
#2) You're not talking about a remake, you're talking about a reversion. If this was the top 5 games that got worse over time, then you'd have a good argument. This wasn't what I was writing about. Although, that might be a future list, and I assure you, SWG would be in the top 2 ;) (UO would have an argument too)
#3) Generally people only remake successful games. By their own standards, every game on this list was successful. SWG, by its standards, was not. That's why they did the NGE. I realize it's not popular, but people often forget that the game was in such a state that the company felt compelled to totally redo it midstream. A bonehead decision? Sure, but they didn't do it just to piss you off, they did it because they felt that's what they had to do to ensure the future of the product.
#4) Lastly, SWG only came out in 2003, which makes it newer in it's original state than 4 of the 5 games on the list. The only newer one, CoH is already getting me some flack for having it on there... and as I said, I have my reasons. SWG, as it exists today, has only existed since 2005. And visually - one of the main reasons to remake something - it is not really outdated.
1) Correct me if I am wrong, but Warhammer was in development after being a scrapped project from another company. Also there is a Warhammer 40k game being developed while Warhammer was also being developed? So it seems like it is somewhat possible to what you claim isn't.
2) True about revision, but it would be nice to see another decent sandbox game get a sequel. Not that I am complaining, because you covered most of what I would have voted for with UO on the list, which I think would make a better sequel than swg.
3) SWG was a very successful game. It was the second most popular and populated western mmo on the market for a good deal of time. Maybe swg wasn't successful enough when compared to wow, but I'm positive there are many many games post July 2003 that would kill to have subscriber numbers that SWG had.
4) 6 years old still makes SWG one of the oldest games on the market.
Totally agreed - Dana has a complete understanding of what is going on. Now why in god's sakes does the industry turn a blind eye to such obvious logic? It's as if they do NOT want to succeed.
You misses Planetside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"On September 25th, the MMO industry turned 12 years old. In 1997, Origin launched Ultima Online and while it wasn’t the first multi-player RPG (MUDs) or even the first one with graphics (Meridian 59), it was the first commercially visible game to hit the market and set off a chain of events that led to more half assed, poorly translated imported MMOs than anyone can possibly imagine."
What about the original NWN on AOL which is considered by some people the first MMO?
http://www.bladekeep.com/nwn/index2.htm
Loved DAoC and a revamped game based on the original design would be very cool. I would use a little less mass control spells though as i doubt people will put up with standing around mezzed these days. One other thing designers have to be careful with is making expansions that make characters over powered and destroying what made the original game great!
AoC is another game that was really cool and revamped would make it great again.
1) Correct me if I am wrong, but Warhammer was in development after being a scrapped project from another company. Also there is a Warhammer 40k game being developed while Warhammer was also being developed? So it seems like it is somewhat possible to what you claim isn't.
2) True about revision, but it would be nice to see another decent sandbox game get a sequel. Not that I am complaining, because you covered most of what I would have voted for with UO on the list, which I think would make a better sequel than swg.
3) SWG was a very successful game. It was the second most popular and populated western mmo on the market for a good deal of time. Maybe swg wasn't successful enough when compared to wow, but I'm positive there are many many games post July 2003 that would kill to have subscriber numbers that SWG had.
4) 6 years old still makes SWG one of the oldest games on the market.
1) Fantasy and 40k are different licenses, and the other Warhammer was never launched or in operation. It is likely that Lucas licenses Old Republic separately from regular Star Wars, so I suppose you have a point there, it is somewhat possible. The question is, would Lucas (or anyone else) want not one, but three competing Star Wars games out there? My suggestions kept in mind cannibalization. LA is not going to start another major MMO project when they have one on the market and another huge one coming down the pipe. So, yes, legally it may be possible, but realistically it would be bad idea.
2) Right, so we agree here. Revision and remakes are different things.
3) I agree, it had lots of subscribers, which is why I said "by its own standards." SOE and LA never seemed to think it lived up to their expectations of how big a Star Wars MMO "should" be.
4) Right, but at six years old, does it justify a remake? CoH was on there for a few reasons, but a major one is to keep their IP relevant against increased competition. I don't think you can apply that logic to Galaxies.
Bottom line, the whole NGE debate is a subject for another article and trying to shoe horn it into this one is distracting from the core point, when you yourself admit that you want a reversion, not a remake. That's like going to Burger King and demanding a BigMac. I'm sure it would be nice, but it's not what that's about ;)
No matter what game I picked, I knew someone was going to one up me on the origin date ;)
We can debate this forever. I picked UO because, in my opinion, it was the first major, commercially visible graphical MMO. Arbitrary? Sure, but it's where I'm measuring from... and it's my article ;)
This is exactly why I've never been able to get into a sci-fi MMO. Sci-fi single players (kotor) aren't usually so much of a problem with immersion. Giving someone the opportunity to single shot (counterstrike Awp) someone/something else in an MMO makes that class very overpowered.
No matter what game I picked, I knew someone was going to one up me on the origin date ;)
We can debate this forever. I picked UO because, in my opinion, it was the first major, commercially visible graphical MMO. Arbitrary? Sure, but it's where I'm measuring from... and it's my article ;)
HAHA... I feel soo proud of my mmorpg.com forumteammates :-)
we can one up anyone :-)
This is exactly why I've never been able to get into a sci-fi MMO. Sci-fi single players (kotor) aren't usually so much of a problem with immersion. Giving someone the opportunity to single shot (counterstrike Awp) someone/something else in an MMO makes that class very overpowered.
Planetside is full of instakill moments. Mostly If you do something wrong. Say... tanks sells can kill infantry, wisp (air) too, light tanks can be killed by a single shot too. Other stuff can really damage most people. Snipers don't instakill, but the next shot will.
UO and DAOC would be awesome remakes. Problem for me would be I don't have enough time to play them both, so I would have to choose!!!
Man I would kill someone to get an updated/remake of AO. That game was incredible. Yeah the launch was horrible. But once it aged some and got stable it was awesome. Great game world, lots of non-combat things, a great skill/character progression system and cool classes. Man, I would really like to see that.
DAoC 2 would be a good one.
I just wish someone would make a Shadowrun MMO. Or even Battle Tech would be something different.
remade daoc??!?!?!?!? count me in
Because Shadowbane had serious problems: It's own community. A remake won't fix that. When one guild "owns" a server meant for thousands, there's a problem. This happened on many of the servers. Human nature sucks. It's hard to code around it.
It's the same with DAOC. People seem to forget that the PVP sucked unless you were on the side with the most people. 3 sides vs 2 sides doesn't mean anything. ONE side will always be more popular, and even when its 3 sided, that side will win most of the time. DAOC and Planetside both showed this in spades.
UO gets viewed through rose colored glasses so much these days, people forgot why the game folded like a house of cards once EQ1 came out. Sure, if you macro'd all the time, it was "fun", but who's playing the game? You or the macro? Then the PVP caused most people to flee (By Raph's own words was something like 200,000 of the 400,000 they had left because of PvP, even before EQ1 came out). Some people think PvP MAKES a great game. I see it in reverse: it BREAKS a great game. MMORPG's just are not suited for PvP and human nature.
Gameplay and the community doesn't even enter into it, in that case, for me. The Shadowbane setting needs to live on because its fabulous lore deserves to live to a much better fate. I don't care if it's a single-player linear RPG. Bring it.
I didn't admit I wanted a revision of SWG [which I don't]. I agreed that you correctly pointed out that someone else was asking for that. I would love to see another star wars game set in the timeline of the original trilogy and don't really care if it is modeled of SWG or not.
Personally I don't think TOR is a remake of swg, because the storylines are so different. It feels more like a multiplayer remake of KOTOR to me.
Also I think SOE/LA were very happy with the subscribers in SWG until another game broke the market wide open. Prior to that they sure seemed happy to talk about the success that SWG was.
I don't want to discuss the NGE either.
It is just as easy to look at the first real "massive" online game and point out the flaws it had. There simply was no model to follow and origins was flying blind into uncharted territory. It is hard to hold it to the same standards as current games for that reason.
I think a large assumption in any post here is that some of the major issues in the older games would get addressed and some of the better aspects of the older games would get enhanced.
Ultima had a lot of great aspects in it like open character templates, boats, housing, player run economy. It also had great structure for community building.
I didn't admit I wanted a revision of SWG [which I don't]. I agreed that you correctly pointed out that someone else was asking for that. I would love to see another star wars game set in the timeline of the original trilogy and don't really care if it is modeled of SWG or not.
Personally I don't think TOR is a remake of swg, because the storylines are so different. It feels more like a multiplayer remake of KOTOR to me.
Also I think SOE/LA were very happy with the subscribers in SWG until another game broke the market wide open. Prior to that they sure seemed happy to talk about the success that SWG was.
I don't want to discuss the NGE either.
Yeah, sorry about that, I responded as if you were the original poster and continued the conversation. I see now that you were not ;)
AO is currently getting a makeover. Visit its homepage to see some photos of the new engine.
Isnt UO 3d now since a couple of years back?
My top list of games I want to see remade is:
1. Anarchy Online
2. Everquest 1
3. Asherons Call
4. Ultima Online
5. SWG
EDIT: Ohh i forgot DAOC :)
1) Correct me if I am wrong, but Warhammer was in development after being a scrapped project from another company. Also there is a Warhammer 40k game being developed while Warhammer was also being developed? So it seems like it is somewhat possible to what you claim isn't.
2) True about revision, but it would be nice to see another decent sandbox game get a sequel. Not that I am complaining, because you covered most of what I would have voted for with UO on the list, which I think would make a better sequel than swg.
3) SWG was a very successful game. It was the second most popular and populated western mmo on the market for a good deal of time. Maybe swg wasn't successful enough when compared to wow, but I'm positive there are many many games post July 2003 that would kill to have subscriber numbers that SWG had.
4) 6 years old still makes SWG one of the oldest games on the market.
Yes, I completely agree!!! SWG was a very successful game at the time with a huge following. WoW has completely skewed our view of what is a success and what is a failure.
I agree with the UO and DAoC remakes most. Both have the potential to be unbelievably awesome :) I had a lot of fun with DAoC, even on the PvE side. Their character classes are just so fun. And the epic storyline for each class that goes along with the mythology of the realm (which may not have been in past the first few levels until Darkness Rising, I don't remember) was pretty amazing. I really liked the instanced wings of dungeons they added in as well. Added a great explorer element to things, and the fact that they scaled to party or solo was nice as well. I would also like to see a true EQ remake though. No, not WoW in Norrath, an actual EQ with updated graphics that hasn't been watered down by fifty thousand expansions. EQ's lore and group-oriented gameplay (especially in the earlier years) were great. The closest I've come to getting my EQ fix since PoP has been FFXI, which is still insanely different from the way EQ was; the biggest similarity though, and the biggest reason I want to see an EQ remake, is the group-dependent / group-supportive gameplay. I feel that the WoW-esque quest systems so prevalent today that make everything but instances soloable have really watered down community interaction. Sure, I can group for the occasional instance, but those get old quick. I can group for regular quests too, but then things just get ultra easy. I want the old, team up and take down the difficult baddies feeling that EQ gave you. And I want it to be un-instanced.
EDIT: Oh, and I also think it would be great to see a remake of Horizons: Empire of Istaria (Now Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted). It never really got big because of bugs at launch and the fact that it was passed around between different developers / companies like a hot potato. But a new Horizons with updated graphics from a stable company would be amazing. Horizon's class system, crafting system, player-built cities and dragon layers, monthly events from the devs, including cities being seiged by the Withered Aegis (at least, for awhile; the most recent devs seemed to have canned this) and dragons as a playable race/class were absolutely incredible ideas that need to pop up again.
You are describing Vanguard during beta. Post Launch they added so much solo content to ruin the group dependancies.
Excellent article. UO, AC and AO would definitely be my top 3. I don't have any strong contenders for 4 and 5, and the arguments for remaking DaOC and CoH are good even if I wouldn't play them.
I'm fairly sure there will be a spiritual successor to UO eventually. The concept is so simple, and so many people want to play it, that when someone finally gets it right, it will be a success. There have already been a few attempts, and there are a few in the works. Unfortunately all by indie companies. I have nothing against games made by indie companies, but the chances of such games surviving long enough to build reputation, become profitable, and then become successful enough to get the polish an UO successor deserves, are slim. My current top contender for making it is Dawntide. Mortal Online borrows a lot of ideas from UO, but even if it becomes a successful niche game, I think the first person twitch based gameplay will alienate too many of those looking for a successor to UO.
As for AO and AC, I would love to see remakes, but I doubt it would happen. They are both, in my opinion, too complex to be big hits, and streamlined versions would take away from what made the originals so good. Many would point out EVE as an exception, but after all EVE launched in 2003. If it had come out today, in a similar state, I doubt it would have lasted. Both Funcom and Turbine are in positions in the market right now where they couldn't justify launching a game unless they thought it would draw several hundred thousand players, so both AO and AC using the original concepts would be high risk projects. Too high risk for other major developers to pick up the ideas too, so once again it comes down to hoping an indie developer gets lucky. I find that less likely than an UO inspired game getting a break, though, simply because more complex games need more polish for people to stick with them through a rough start.
Nice one Dana, however I have to disagree with CoH though being in the top 5.
Ultima Online - Most Definitely (A lot of rumors in the past with a Ultima 2, just never got the push it needed)
Star Wars Galaxies - Short lived and deserves another chance (pipe dream though, since TOR is coming)
Anarchy Online - Most Definitely (However has AoC really put a damper on Funcom).
Dark Age of Camelot - The game that revolutionized RvR!
Asheron's Call - Its Short lived counterpart AC2 doesn't count, we need another AC.
No particular order here.
I can guarantee if any of these titles were remade, we would have a huge HYPE METER on every single one.
Of course this is just my personal opinion.
Funny how WAR was a bit hyped up to serve as DAoC 2..... lol yea right.
Hopefully Mortal Online can serve as a successor to how great Asheron's Call was (hybrid skill, sandbox, full-loot, housing, etc.). AC2 was fun for a bit but it didn't last long because they cut out pretty much all the elements that made AC1 great.
@ Dana. None of those 5 games "redone" would make it in 2010.
Industry evolved too much. People were served better meals.
I like what you say about DAoC PvP and War and Wow though "... as War and Wow showed a 2 faction PvP doesn't work...".
More people play WOW PvP than any other MMO. And "it works" so well they are even on ESPN. You can log in at 04.00AM and you have your pvp within 1 minute. How is that "not working" ?
Typical mmorpg.com nostalgia and bombastic reasoning.
I bet there are thousands of people wanting the original Donkey Kong of 1982. But it will not sell in 2010.
Let me guess... you are playing Aion right now and think it's an mmorpg.
Right.
people want and buy remakes if they are well done. Well they buy them even if they are not well done (i.e. movies especially). They pretty much did remake the old Donkey Kong with Mario vs Donkey Kong and it is a great game.... Virtual Console games aren't even remakes and people still buy them. Old games kick ass whether or not they are remade.... Fallout 1+2(hell even Tactics) are completely superior to 3.... So are the old Castlevania games.... Metroid is kind of a different story all of them are terrific but 3 and Prime I are the top.
Well, redone implies updated. Think of how movies are re-made, that's what I had in mind.
Take the elements that made those games fun and make 2010 quality games using those core ideals.
As to WoW, you're right, I may have over simplified it, but WoW has some holes in that area. Specifically the open world stuff in Wintergrasp. Two factions have been shown time and time again to not work in any kind of open PvP. In instances that control population, it's less of an issue, of course.
With Aion... I have no earthly clue what you're on about. Although if you want to bring it into the PvP debate, there's a good reason they add the NPC balancing faction.
I would love to lead a team to remake Ultima Online. Someday perhaps...
I wonder how many of the people that want a remade UO have taken a serious look at Mortal Online?
FPV and FPS aside.
Yeah.
UO.
Good article.
I disagree with a lot on your list because it is based on nostalgia, rather than practicality or even fun gameplay.
City of Heroes just got the remake you asked for, and even mentioned, in the article. It's called Champions Online. That is the closest thing you'll ever see to a City of Heroes remake. The secret identity idea sounds cool, if you're making a movie. But practically, in a game, secret identities would be very boring for players. "Hey look, I'm a regular Joe who has no powers right now!" Does that really require a game? Wouldn't it be easier to just turn off your computer and go to work? Ah, the game we fondly call Reality!
Asheron's Call and Anarchy Online MMOs could work with huge overhauls. So these first two on your list were the most practical targets for remakes. But these remakes couldn't compete in today's market if they were too true to form of the originals. It's not 2002 anymore. You have to make a game that can compete with WoW if you want a blockbuster, and even that's not a guarantee that your title will be popular or sustainable.
I know it's been years, but Dark Age of Camelot really doesn't need a remake yet. They need to let WAR burn off some more steam and crank through some more expansions before being truly capable of pushing out a worthy Dark Age of Camelot remake.
As for Ultima Online, a remake would simply require so many changes that it would fail to be an Ultima Online remake. You wouldn't be able to call it that. You would have to call it, "A game based on ideas from Ultima Online." If you really re-made Ultima Online like you're saying, it would fail faster than Tabula Rasa. This pick on your list was a pure nostalgia pick. There's a reason nobody has copied UO.
Well, to this day I still am a fan of UO (that is I still play MMORPG's looking for the next UO), it is the MMORPG that started it for me and many of my friends as well as our almost 12 year old Guild now, and we played it the longest from any other, too (5 years)...since then, only SWG was able to keep us playing form more than 6 months or a year, and that is of course Pre-NGE, which many of us called UO2.
I agree with UO being #1 on this list.
Not sure about City of heroes, really In the list thought, the rest has merit.
With today's technology thought, a true UO2 could really be a blast, with a trully huge Britannia, vast wilderness, forests, plains, deserts, Silver Spine Mountain Ranges and Beautifully Crafted Thematic Cities, and Virtue Shrines, not to mention the Oceans and Islands.
With the ability to construct Houses and Towers and Castles, so player run organizations can create their own Cities, full of adventure seekers, warriors, and many and various artisans, from shepperds to carpenters cookers to alchemists, tailors and blacksmiths, bards and town cryers!
A Gate system connecting all Britannian cities just like the original would be great, that way people always have the option of quick or slow travel through the dangerous wilderness.
Player owned Vendors and Shops are a must just like the original.
Ships like the original, would be great only that this time it would be in 3D and the Oceans can really be vast with many various types of Ships that can be armed for some interesting Naval battles.
Chat bubbles all the way, no general chat or even a chat box (guilds could have guild voice) for a trully regional feeling of immersion, plenty of emotes, and public ereas where people can stage plays or form dancing or music bands, set up shop for player run Bazzars (just like we used to do in the original).
Great, dark mysterious and dangerous dungeons.
Added to that Dimensional Portals that can transport the player to different landscapes through the aetherial void could be a nice Addon Bonus.
I would just love to see places like Britain, and Vesper and Yew and Serpent's Hold, and many others.
Just a few ideas that are still fresh after 12 years :)
Oh yeah one more thing...Full Loot Death PvP has to be part of it (with the appropriate economy as the original..no 8 hour grinds to make a sword like some games today out there), however...NO Twitch First person Implementation (Darkfall proved to me it will just not work it is also why I am not looking forward to Mortal Online)...Twitch is good for Space games and Flight Simulators...for an MMORPG 3rd Person with Dice rolls is the only way in my opinion (actually I would go as far as say implement the core combat mechanics of WoW, it was the only good thing of that game for me).
Sometimes I wonder if developers are just afraid to remake UO and risk sullying its divine status. Have the courage to try it :)
Yes there should not be any fear there!
Actually they can use some of the best elements of the most successful Themepark game out there (WoW) and make the best Sandbox game there can be :)
My list:
1.) UO - no doubt.
I am in total agreement with you on that one and wait/hope for the day it happens. It's a UO thing. If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand. What more needs to be said.
2.) AC - another one I agree with.
AC and UO were/are my two most favorite MMO's of all time. For those saying AC already had a re-do. You obviously have played neither game to make such a statement. The only thing similar about AC1and AC2 was the name, and the setting/lore. Other than that, they were nothing alike, and I mean nothing. No two games could be at such opposite ends of the spectrum like AC1 and AC2 were.
3.) AO - would love to see this one as well.
The game was an absolute mess at release without a doubt, but eventually turned into a great game once Funcom got the issues worked out. Just a sidenote to the OP, Keepers and Shades were added with the Shadowlands expansion, much after the original came out. I'm sure you know that, but the article struck me as suggesting they've been there all along...yeah, slow night for me if that's all I can nit pick about, lol!
On a sidenote while I'm talking about Funcom. I am really looking forward to The Secret World. Funcom seems to have the vibe on the Post Apoc, CyberPunk, Sci-Fi genre.
Those are the 3 I'd like most to see redone modern style.
Honorable mention for me:
SWG - bring it back to where it was shortly after release, pre-holo-grind.....it all started going down hill after the whole holocron crap IMO. Before that was some of the best next gen sandbox gaming I have been a part of. The crafting to this day was the best I have ever seen in an MMO.
Realms of Torment - no really! Had that game been able to deliver what it had promised from the beginning it would have been an awesome game. I think it could be pulled off today by a decent developer. Leave anyone even remotely related to the development of the original far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far away from here and the new development though, lol.
As for the OP's other picks.
DAOC- For whatever reason I was never able to get into this game. I tried multiple times. The PvE character progression seemed boring to me after UO and AC1, and the PvP paled in comparison to AC's Darktide. Personal opinion of course.
CoH- never got into this game or even tried. It just didn't interest me. That being said, the game seems fairly young to be on this list IMO.
Anarchy Online has been getting facelift in the works since before AoC came out, but haven't seen much status of it in awhile. So no telling with those guys what's going on. they showed some video footage on their main website before, which looked really nice. But i think it would be much better if they just re-designed the game with a good physics engine, UI and overall graphics engine it would be awesome.
Ultima did have a new MMO coming out a long time ago, but the game got canned for whatever reason... It was being made with the latest Unreal engine etc... supposedly a little bit real time. Guess Tabula Rasa was more important lol.
All i know is i'm still waiting for the REAL Asheron's Call sequel.
Oh and don't forget that Asheron's Call is awesome also because it uses a Tinkering system on items in the game rather than a crafting system. So you can modified random items found in the game to make them better. I really think that system is way more fun than any modern crafting system.
Great list, especially agree about Asheron's Call. It has an amazing world which actually feels alive unlike the theme parks churned out these days. You could write several novels on everything that has happened in the AC world in the last decade, most MMORPGs feel so static and flat by comparison. It also has the most addictive loot system I've come across. To be honest if it wasn't for the fact that A) it looks so old now and B) it's empty of, you know, people - I'd still want to play it.
Yes AC2 failed but AC2 strayed alot from what made the original so unique so in the end not only couldn't compete with it's competitors but couldn't even compete with it's predecessor.
A true sequel/re-make/whatever would be brilliant and even my gamer friends who hate mmorpgs these days would likely sign up for it.
I’m actually somewhat shocked so see so many DAOC2 supporters. Mainly because it was such a niche game and it existed before the big MMO rush. Most people I talk to in WoW and WAR have only heard of it or tried it once. I think the big thing that also made it appealing was that it was 1.Indie at the time and 2. Didn’t cater to laziness. You remember the long waits for teleporting when you’d be forced to talk to strangers or lost in the housing district? Sure some people would think that is a waste of time...but in the scheme of things it made of kind of…appealing. I think the ability to set your own time tables as an indie company also helped Mythic.They didn't have to cater to laziness! They didn’t have to cater to all age groupss and market their game to “get rich quick” mentality. On the big business side you do. The more wide its appeal the more dumbed down it will get. Everything is instant gratifications which = more profit. I bounce between WoW, Age of Conan, WAR, and Lotro just trying to recapture a little bit of that nostalgia that made Dark Age so alternative. My list:
1. UO
2. Daoc
3. SWG
4. AC
Wrong. DF is nothing like SB --lightyears apart. Only simularity is open looting and even that is different in both. Try again.
What game did you play? Or should I say, did you play it or not since you contradict yourself here. Sb is nothing like Darkfall. That comparison shows me you have no clue. I have heard the loch ness monster exists so it must be true (insert eye-roll here).
Shadowbane was by far the best adrenaline rush I've ever had playing an MMO. And yes the player run cities worked well in the game. You built your nation from the ground up, made alliances and had to be vigilant for threats from your enemies, allies who could turn on you, and spies from within. The game had the best political intrigue of any MMO...it was never static. Something wild was always going on.
Yes it had bad problems from the dreaded SB.exe error to duping and other exploits were rampant, but the game is now runnning under new management and most of the old problems (finally) are history. The game is well past it's prime, but needs a sequel and should be represented.
good list. However, I'd rather play a DAoC 2 than a UO 2. I know it sounds blasphemistic (is that even a word lol?), but I could only ever get that "Keep Burning", "Tree-huggin hibbie slaughtering", "CC is OP!" rush from one game, DAoC. No other game has even come close. I'm more suprised that someone hasn't come out with another 3 realm pvp game. Everyone always seems to only do two...and as the list says, it just doesn't work out well.
Don't get my wrong, I loved UO. Perhaps a UO - DAoC mix, with the sandboxiness (another made up word lol) of UO with the 3 realm mass combat of DAoC...uh oh, I think I just wet my self!
That was a pretty decent list and I've tried most of those games. While I've never played UO, the amount of posts I hear from ex-UOers longing for a game to be a decent inheritor of their game makes me wonder why there hasn't been a UO2 yet.
However, with all of the MMORPGs out there now and out of all of them that I've tried, I don't think any remake will be any great success unless it offers something NEW! All of the games out there contain the exact same mechanics. Combat consists of pulling a mob, burning its health down, healing your group's health. Basically...that's it! And combat is 80% of what players do! How about walking down a dungeon with your group knowing that mobs maybe be waiting in the shadows ahead UNSEEN ready to ambush you?
Tradeskilling? It's usually crafting which consists of getting some ingredients, putting them in their slots, pushing a button and repeat ad nauseam. It's not actually "crafting" but merely just "producing" (Horizons may be different, idk).
Character customization = making your eyebrows longer?? lol Gimme a break! How about character customization like "Obesity: +5 str, +20 charge, -10 speed" and balloons your avatar's middle? Or "Claustrophobia: -5 to all skills in dungeons" that gives you extra customization points to spend on gaining other skills. How about a Read skill that lets you read signs in cities or read that scroll that your group found in the dungeon telling you about the poison pit in front of the next door?
I'm ranting now so I'll stop. My point is that no MMORPG will be a breakout game or WoW killer or anything more than a mediocre success until it BREAKS FREE of previous games instead of just REMAKING them.
after reading your cry fest about not understanding the crat lass in ao im left with nothing but confusion.
as an editor on this site, im just dumbfounded about your bits on anarchy online. you went normal wow laden mmo fanboy on us.
boo hoo. i dont like that they called one of the pet classes (and a damn good one at that) the same name as a politician.
wow dude, after reading your articles for years. you lost all credibility with me on that one.
mental note, take everything dana writes from now on with a grain of salt.
seriously.....
Couple of things:
“Bad launches are no longer tolerated?” Replace that with every launch is now a Beta but that’s what players have got used to.
To the last poster Bureaucrat’s are not politicians they are administrators. You could describe a politician as bureacratic but then you could describe a receptionst as bureacratic too.
My list:
1. AC
2. UO
3. DAOC
"its planets and systems are nice but procedurally generic" new overhaul in less then 2 months
[the planets are] "for the most part just scenery and have no play in the game no fighting to claim them" "no planetary resources" new planetary system comes in H2 2010 with territorial control and resources
"no ground battles or orbital bombardment" DUST 514 expected late 2010 early 2011
EVE doesn't need a v2, since its evolving faster then new sequel could be developed from scratch. It's getting new graphics every 12 months, new game aspects every 6 months.
What I want is UO2. I want, I Want, I WANT, I WNAT!
Nice list and while i haven't played UO or AC i did try AC2 for a bit but didn't like it much.
Currently i have 3 active accounts in anarchy online and one in everquest, compared to WoW or AoC no quest markers all over the place is very nice for a change, not sure a remake would work though, for me everquest is my first mmo and that makes it very special, AO i started playing back in mid 2001 then took a year long break, i play it on and off and enjoy it as it is.
I know that a lot of people may agree with you on a few of these but just like a bunch of the comments say here - What were you thinking by putting City of Heroes up there. I thought you made a list of games that were so great they should be remade to today's standards. CoH had some fun decent graphics but doesn't belong in that list at all. Definitely would of put UO as #1, the rest is a little blurry for me but honestly would of put Shadowbane in that list. Their character building system along with the skill tree system allowed you to create characters in a lot of different ways. I see a lot of systems that copied or tried to copy or make similar systems but fell far from it. You didn't mention everquest as one of them. There was everquest 2 but that was their attempt at making something new versus trying to keep the same formula and keep the hardcore epic feel and just updating it better graphics - if the systems were to be updated, i'd update them with very very small changes so that it doesn't lose the feel of the game. I've never played AC after reading what you wrote it made me want to try it atleast. Daoc - played it for a long time - i'd put it at about the end of the list or not at all considering there are others that are much better suited to be there (like I said shadowbane and everquest). Blizzard is working on Diablo 3 but they are changing a lot about the game that made diablo 2 so fun to play. That was more of an action game but came before a lot of others and played like an RPG and still to this day has tons of players still playing it - The character building system in that has always kept it fun and fresh even so many years later, would love to see that remade, revamped, redone graphically but not so much on the actual game system changes. Just my opinion.
Why bother with remakes? I loved AC when it first came out. Played it for years. I don't want to play it again. I played it already. I played M59 already. I played all (well, most of) these games already.
Come up with some new goddamn ideas and make them for fun before profit. That's what made these good in their day and what makes some of them persist where garbage like Warhammer and Conan crash and burn before their year anniversary comes along. Remakes are for uncreative d-bags and people who can't let go of their teddy bears.
That aside, it's not like bad launches aren't tolerated; hell, every game that comes out anymore has a trash launch and there is a legion of frothing supporters making excuses and justifications - where AC, one of the oldest games on this list right here, had a more or less flawless launch by comparison to damn near anything released in the last couple years.
I didn't like Anarchy Online so I have no credibility? Seems a bit extreme.
I'll admit flat out that I played it a bit around Beta and launch, never got hooked, and never went back for any significant, non-professional amount of time.
The fact is, AO is one of the rare games out there where I had an organic experience that is actually vaguely representative of what real people do. I wasn't covering it, I had no professional responsibilities in it. I think I worked at IGN at the time, but not on AO in any way and I was probably 16/17 years old ;)
So I picked it up out of my own interest and with minimal research based likely off banner ads or minimum amount of looking at fansites/official sites. If they don't like a game early or it disappoints them in some way (and yes, the Bureaucrat thing may be harsh, but it was what went through my brain at the time), they don't come back.
It's why there is limited value to improving a game over the years post launch, or even upgrading them entirely. You need a proper launch to get a lot of people to think about you a second time.
Please see Anarchy Online's launch.
Any game that did what they did these days wouldn't have survived. They slowly turned it around, and it still hurt them for years, but AO went on to be a successful product despite one of the worst launches on record.
no, more like because you write the most biased, one sided, fluffed up articles to meet your own views and ignore all the rest. You state you worked at IGN? I sure hope it was in the mail room. As a professional in the Journalism field I'll say you are much more suited to letters to the editor writing then real articles. :P
Please see Anarchy Online's launch.
Any game that did what they did these days wouldn't have survived. They slowly turned it around, and it still hurt them for years, but AO went on to be a successful product despite one of the worst launches on record.
Yup, its launch earned it its Nick name : Anarchy Offline!
For Those that wonder why an UO2 was never made since it seems from many fans that it would have been a hit.
The answer is that Origin systems did start the devellopment of UO2, but EA shut it down saying that they would rather concentrate on 1 MMORPG..and not split their customer base.
You can find some Preview videos of UO2 on Youtube as testimony of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWumht6AuZo
There is also a Wikipedia article about it.
So yeah...nothing is impossible, I just hope the stars align for this one.
Like many, I agree with everything but CoH. I don't feel that it can draw again if it were remade.
I'd gladly play any of the other 4 though it they turned out the way you wrote them up. I'd probably end up playing a remake of DAOC the most though.
Mortal Online draws quite a bit of inspiration from Ultima Online.
Though I never played UO, I do like the feel of Mortal Online. So for anyone who hasn't read about MO but really liked UO, you might want to read up.
My Problem with MO is that it is First person...
While it may have the Sandbox element of UO, it does not have the RPG element of UO, just like Darkfall.
And UO was not only Sandbox, or only RPG as an MMO, it was a combination of both with agreat Lore that preceded it and the sence of Adventure. UO was a World not only a game.
To any1 who said SB doesn't belong here. First of all, Shadowbane was the first player grave looting, player city building MMO. Player cities worked very well in practise. Shadowbane in its dying days was the best city siege game todate. I say this, because many changes were made to make the sieges more balanced & many people left Shadowbane very early on, before guards balance, siege spires , city grids & all that.
the horror stories you've heard are for the most part true, but there was also a lot of shifting. There was guilds that controlled a whole server through cheating, but that forced the other players to get better, come up with better builds, better strategies & for the most part that made for better gameplay. These guilds also didn't last for long most of the times.
here, we're not talking about hacking & cheating. We're talking about game concepts & Shadowbane was truly 1 of the best pvp game concepts out there & the character class/race diversity was something else. How many solid templates of a templar can you come up with in a game. How many different type of succesful group compositions? I myself came up with a few original templates of my own & i tell you, no better thrill than some1 calling you a gimp & you going out rolling him & his friends on your own with your new "gimpy" character.
Best politics game ever.
Bottom line, no other game has kept me on my toes like SB has. Smarts, skill & a cool head really counted. There's no other game a lvl 29 guy could kill some 10 or 20 lvls above him or a single guy defeat a whole group of people, or disrupt a whole guild, not through cheating.
No it was not, UO was the first, and actually Shadowbane drew inspiration from UO, it combined a Level based system inspired from EQ (which quickly became apparent that it was a mistake for a PvP oriented game) and the Sandbox element of UO specifically designed for Conflict and Empire building ...
UO had Player Cities and Free for all PvP with full Loot way before SB.
The OP said it best, no one up to today has actually duplicated UO, many have made games inspired from it, but none did it the UO way nevertheless.
wow has made it on advertising, most mmo's dont have tv spots.
WOW is a joke, it had its part in mmorpg's, a sad part but let alone its part. I dont see people sticking to a 1/2 retard game in the future.
Games will progress just as tech. must.
When the morons playing wow are intro. to real game play that creates great communities and challenge, they will jump ship.
Just as pot smoking has come back, so will a eaningful playing exp. in a mmorpg.
lol how can ac not compete? besides graphics, its beyond anything wow has...
To be honest everything in AC is what most players want.. you can solo or group.... u get better exp in a group... you get exp from being in a guild... they have a open pvp server... you get good drop items... you can get exp from crafting... its a vast open world with free content every month.... lol .. you can make your own class.....player housing...emotes lol
wow is the big boats of the 70's, the market will come back to its sences... all they need is a sweet show car...
city of heroes??
i can agree a little... been playing COH since beta and a "COH2" would be nice, but COH can be fixed without scrapping completely..
NC2 has been improving the game over time, things once said impossible are becoming possible...
what is needed is more content... more zones... hopefully going rogue can correct some issues, and maybe others fixed down the road....
Do you even know what you're talking about? CO is not the sequel of CoH. Yes, CoH was originally developed by Cryptic who then sold the IP to NCSoft, in which pretty much the whole dev team stayed with NCSoft. There studio was called NC/Norcal or something, but now they're called Paragon Studios.
So, yea NCSoft is a publisher, but if you haven't noticed they are developers too. Look at Lineage I/II, Aion, and now CoH. About Tabula Rasa, it was an unfinished game and was a huge mistake revamping the entire game in the middle of development.
I completely agree with Ultima Online as being #1. Being a long time player of from the beginning I have long awaited a remake of it. They attempted UO2 several years back and it failed before even entering any real testing. Then again they were also trying to go more sci-fi/fantasy merge with it. Asherons Call I agree with being on the list but for me would have been in the #2 or #3 spot. I for one have never had as much fun PvP'ing as I did in AC (besides UO before the split of course!). The other games listed never got my attention, thats not to say that they were not good games, just not my cup of tea.
Oh the good old days before the abomination of WoW entered the scene and attracted millions of zombie freaks that need linear, easy and casual play with big shiny pointers to get them to where the xp/loot is.
Unfourtanetely that crap worked and almost all MMORPG developers are still trying to copy WoW and cash in on the $$.
Those that try anything different are few and far inbetween and usually end in disaster (like Darkfall).
A Re-make of UO would be awesome... and for those who say that it cant be done without introducing some changes, you are right, but that wouldn't alter the essence of the game. All you need to do is to introduce a mayor conflict in the game to encourage ppl to grab a sword or shield or axe and to pick a side.
Skills can be developed without turning away from the original UO.
My guess is that nobody wants to do the remake because they are afraid of the ppl who actually played the original game to go against this new version because is not the same with up-to-date graphics.
UO all the way. I am really EA needs to step up it's game. Once Bioware finishes launching SWTOR get some of them and Mythic on UO and do it.
I don't think UO would be any more than a niche hit these days..its way too hardcore and an unfriendly experience for new players and the casual crowd, and whether we like it or not we are not the majority anymore. The only game on that list I would play in a new engine would be AO and that is mainly the setting.
not more than a week ago I was giving my gf a long explanation about why I enjoyed playing uo and all the great memories and stories I had from the game and its nice to see some other people miss that game style
Although I've only played a couple of these games on this list, one that should NOT have been added was City of Heroes. With all the updates (issues), incredible changes to the game, and an incredible Dev team that actually listens to the players (although PvPers might counter that), this game is not a game that should be remade right now.
Maybe in 2-3 years, start developing CoH2? Sure. Right now? Pfffft. Going Rogue is the next expansion and will do well for adding new material, zones and powers to the game.
UO.
If it was remade following the same core design decisions.
DAOC, AO, AC deserve remakes as well.
City of Heroes dont, its a joke of a game and I spit on it.
Unmentioned games that deserve remakes as well: The original SWG and Shadowbane.
Both games had yet unmatched characteristics.
All those games, with the technologies available nowdays and the near future would be huge successes.
What about PLANETSIDE?
One of the most unique MMO's ever created! A sequel to it is just about a 100 times more interesting than a sequel to City of Heroes (CHAMPIONS ONLINE IS ALREADY OUT)
Seriously, when are we going to get a decent spiritual successor to Planetside?
"While it may have the Sandbox element of UO, it does not have the RPG element of UO, just like Darkfall."
That is an enormous mental and illogical leap to take. So just because it is a first person game, it can't have RPG elements? Developers of MO have said it will be focusing a lot on RPG. So take that as you will.
Nice list and it would be a dream come true for me as I didn't get into mmo's until much later than most of these and my transition then was even slow my first mmo being SWG I had never even heard of most of these games until long after the NGE when I then began to look more into mmo's hoping to find a game to expand on the mostly good times I had in Galaxies. COH I played and mostly hate to say that the game mostly ran it's course for me with a DC and a Marvel game on the horizons and Champions just released I think that those games would have more to offer fans of both mmo's and the super hero genre than COH 2 would. And AC is a bleh for me after knowing what Funcom has achieved with both it's first and second mmo release and after not being dazzled by anything else the've ever done I'm sternly of the mind that they have much to prove to be able to gain my gaming dollars, there are just far too many grey areas where they are concerned and the biggest blow from them to me is their playing fast and loose with the communities trust they have made far too many interpretive statements to really be a force int he industry right now hopefully that will change but right now they haven't even begun to do that. The other three though in a perfect world would be great to see happen.
WWII ONLINE tops them all. We do not need rehashed remakes of failed fantasy crap MMOs.
Sorry Zzulu, all games consider themselves as MMORPG's that does not mean that they actually succeed in having RPG elements in to them.
Darkfall views itself as an MMORPG..tell me please, where is the RPG elements in it really? It doe snot even have a a Local chat, not to mention Chat Bubbles to foster RPG interaction.
It has no tools, whatsoever for players to build communities, it is but a game of destruction appealing to community destroyers, and community destroyers cannot be expected to build a vibrant community.
UO was a game of Creative Construction, communities flourished along with the villages and towns that they built and then went forth to interact with one another share and learn from one another.
As a player you could meet up with people in a player town near Trinsic, and then some other people in a player town near Britain and have two completely different experiences, because each town was customised with own traditions and ways of doing things according to the vision and goals of the players that built them.
In Darkfall the only experience you will have when you approach a player town is getting attacked and killed. no tools for RPG interaction whatsoever (you can't even sit on chairs with your character around a table with friends), let alone build a community.
So it goes to show that what people claim and how things are in reality can be two very different things in many cases.
Attacking City of Heroes is a good way to attempt to bump your article post count, but it doesn't make you very well informed or any more of a shock media jock.
City of Villains is/was CoH2. It was put out a couple of years ago. CoH:GR will be in beta soon - that will be COH3. So you are behind the learning curve on CoH. As you don't have a grasp of the game, you are hardly one to post on how or why it needs changing. The players of the game post ideas to the forums every day that are 100x better than yours an the DEVs do implement many ideas that are introduced by players.
Regardless if you can get a travel power at level 1 in some other game - you can get a travel power at level one as well with the help of a good Super Group - and there are many in City of Heroes.
With all the lame MMORPG's out there, you could have picked a far better one for a remake. Honestly, I was not impressed with WoW when I tried it, so as far as I'm concerned it needs a remake far more than the City does.
Yeah, City of Heroes IS a great game, and it HAS been improving with FREE updates (we call them Issues - think comicbooks) that occur multiple times a year. You can go to the website and check out the information on the most recent update Issue 16 - and the info on all the previous Issues. And when you are looking and seeing what has been added for FREE, you will understand that the game isn't stagnant - it is constantly in flux and improving itself with every release.
So before you go writing another article with erroneous information, get your facts strait or is that all just shooting-from-the-hip opinion?
---
Oh, I forgot. I could care less about the Signature characters in any game. Some people do. As far as I'm concerned, my characters and other player characters are far more important in a game than any of the Signature characters.
What do they do anyway?
Try to stand around and be cool?
Who cares.
Player characters actual get things done.
EQ 1 would be worth a remake over some of them other ones
last time i read any of your post lol
in the end u are crying about what?
What about the old Sierra game "The Realm"? Great 2d scroller game that had some really interesting features, ie. the rogue class could actually steal things from other players as they walked by, at lvl 100 you could become an ingame GM or you could choose to keep lvling with no lvl cap, etc. A lot of people may not remeber it but think Leisure Suit Larry style graphics with a fantasy setting and quest grouping. Was a great game for 10+ years ago.
Those issues really just caused population to decline slowly as winners won and losers lost. The way to deal with this world conquest reality in a game as intense as SB was on folks is to simply recognize that servers have a useful life. Call the end of this useful life a set of "winning conditions," which would trigger a catastrophy - a server wipe - new cities - new aliances - new conflict. A new start. That's what Shadowbane really needed to deal with the issues you rightly identify.
That is a great idea. Have a race to win then restart with maybe new content that can only be used after specific goals are met.
Excellent post Dana. You have gained my respect.
That is a great idea. Have a race to win then restart with maybe new content that can only be used after specific goals are met.
The focus group, and evernually most everyone else, went round and round on this, including what you are suggesting. The best idea I heard was alternating rulesets on the new server - after winning conditions were met, with maybe a weekend break between. It would have gone somethig like Lore ruleset>ARAC pre ROC ruleset>AQRAC post-ToO ruleset. Could have been anything really. Regular wipes would have been the only key. It would even give guilds, nations, groups of friends and solo players an opportunity to sit out a cycle if they were burnt out or had RL issues without worrying about falling prey to the voracious appetite of SB seiging.
The loudest objectors to the idea were those players who loved their items, cities and pixels in general too much. They didn't realize that in Shadowbane the journey really was the entire fun of the game. Not the destination.
lol how can ac not compete? besides graphics, its beyond anything wow has...
To be honest everything in AC is what most players want.. you can solo or group.... u get better exp in a group... you get exp from being in a guild... they have a open pvp server... you get good drop items... you can get exp from crafting... its a vast open world with free content every month.... lol .. you can make your own class.....player housing...emotes lol
wow is the big boats of the 70's, the market will come back to its sences... all they need is a sweet show car...
You overestimate the popularity of open worlds vs. guided experiences. In your opinion, EVERYONE wants an open world MMO. Now that might be true for 90% of the people who frequent this site, but for the vast majority of people who actually play games (MMO or otherwise), it's not true at all.
WoW's subscription numbers are pretty good evidence that this is the case. Publishers aren't going to back your niche game. They want money. Your niche game isn't going to sell, though it may be your favorite game in the world. That's just how it is.
If any MMO more than any other needed a remake, then it's PlanetSide, and as posted above, fortunately it's getting one!
Lol i thought i wrote that myself, that exactly the same here, thinking bout EQ2 or EVE maybe cuz CO / AION don't cut it too much :(
How in the hell can Neocron and EQ1 be missing from this list? CoH??? WTF? yer kidding.
DB
No surprise that UO was at the top of the list but I would point out that there has been attempts at games like UO but they have never gotten the backing of a major developing house. The reason we haven't seen another UO is because of Everquest, Everquest was so much more successful that UO was forgotten by the giants. Then came WoW and cemented that belief without the theory that levels and classes are better having been properly tested.
It took 5-10 years but eventually the fans got tired of waiting for Ubisoft, Blizzard, EA, Sony or anyone to make a game like UO so small projects started popping up. The names that come to mind right away are of course Shadowbane, Dark & Light, Darkfall, SWG and my favorite Wurm Online.
Personally I don't want a remake of UO I just want a game like Darkfall or Mortal Online to truly live up to their potential. Maybe now after the massive failures of games like WAR, AoC and other WoW clones some big name company will be willing to put 50 million dollars on a game like Darkfall or Mortal Online.
I'd love to see UO redesigned and updated! I remember how excited I was when the game first came out and PvP'd for the first time! Talk about gankers back then! The orginal game was great but it ended up suffering from constant remakes and the housing problem of people being able to build a house anywhere, which, clogged up everywhere you tried to go.
Great game though-love to see it redone to todays technology!
I didn't like Anarchy Online so I have no credibility? Seems a bit extreme.
I'll admit flat out that I played it a bit around Beta and launch, never got hooked, and never went back for any significant, non-professional amount of time.
The fact is, AO is one of the rare games out there where I had an organic experience that is actually vaguely representative of what real people do. I wasn't covering it, I had no professional responsibilities in it. I think I worked at IGN at the time, but not on AO in any way and I was probably 16/17 years old ;)
So I picked it up out of my own interest and with minimal research based likely off banner ads or minimum amount of looking at fansites/official sites. If they don't like a game early or it disappoints them in some way (and yes, the Bureaucrat thing may be harsh, but it was what went through my brain at the time), they don't come back.
It's why there is limited value to improving a game over the years post launch, or even upgrading them entirely. You need a proper launch to get a lot of people to think about you a second time.
so why didnt you write that in your article? it would have seemed more honest. lets revisit what you published.
Let’s go back to the summer of 2001. Funcom, now better known for Age of Conan, launched the first real science fiction MMO. The initial slate of MMOs were fantasy themed, and say what you will about its launch, at least someone had the balls to try a new genre.
As far as terrestrial science-fiction MMOs go, there still isn’t all that much out there. Star Wars Galaxies has a well documented history, and Tabula Rasa is the Waterworld of MMOs.
Yet, along comes Funcom’s Anarchy Online. The quirky Norwegians have continued to develop and expand this game over its eight years of commercial operation. And while they have their hands full with Conan and the upcoming Secret World, maybe they should go back to the game that got it all started?
Why It Was Awesome
Anarchy Online took all the cool bits of the MMO genre and wrapped it in a snazzy, futuristic reality controlled by a shady corporation.
Players choose from a variety of really exciting classes: Adventurer, Agent, Bureaucrat, Doctor, Enforcer, Engineer, Keeper, Martial Artist, Meta-Physicist, Nano Technician, Shade, Soldier, and Trader. While most of these have some kind of fantasy MMO equivalent, their names alone were enough to get me drooling back in 2001.
This is also the game that invented instancing, love it or hate it. They have dynamic missions tailored to the characters involved, which are a popular part of the game.
Why The Old Game Isn’t Good Enough Anymore
The problem I always had with Anarchy Online is that while it promised so much, it never really delivered for me. I wanted the experience of being a Bureaucrat and when I read that, I thought I’d be embroiled in cut-throat sci-fi politics. Turns out I was actually some kind of weird combat class.
now specifically lets look at what you said about "Why The Old Game Isn’t Good Enough Anymore". you very clearly stated it was all about how one of the pet classes had a name that didnt resonate with how YOU would have designed the game. your argument you replied to me with doesnt even resemble what you posted.
you never mentioned the game's major strength. a massive skill based system and and item equipment and tradeskill system unlike any other game, even today. i dont play ao anymore, and havent in years but i stopped for very different reasons and i could give its pluses and minuses based on my experience.
sorry dude, but your review doesnt come off to me as anything less than someone who played the game MAYBE for a month. and even that is debatable.
so why didnt you write that in your article? it would have seemed more honest. lets revisit what you published.
Let’s go back to the summer of 2001. Funcom, now better known for Age of Conan, launched the first real science fiction MMO. The initial slate of MMOs were fantasy themed, and say what you will about its launch, at least someone had the balls to try a new genre.
As far as terrestrial science-fiction MMOs go, there still isn’t all that much out there. Star Wars Galaxies has a well documented history, and Tabula Rasa is the Waterworld of MMOs.
Yet, along comes Funcom’s Anarchy Online. The quirky Norwegians have continued to develop and expand this game over its eight years of commercial operation. And while they have their hands full with Conan and the upcoming Secret World, maybe they should go back to the game that got it all started?
Why It Was Awesome
Anarchy Online took all the cool bits of the MMO genre and wrapped it in a snazzy, futuristic reality controlled by a shady corporation.
Players choose from a variety of really exciting classes: Adventurer, Agent, Bureaucrat, Doctor, Enforcer, Engineer, Keeper, Martial Artist, Meta-Physicist, Nano Technician, Shade, Soldier, and Trader. While most of these have some kind of fantasy MMO equivalent, their names alone were enough to get me drooling back in 2001.
This is also the game that invented instancing, love it or hate it. They have dynamic missions tailored to the characters involved, which are a popular part of the game.
Why The Old Game Isn’t Good Enough Anymore
The problem I always had with Anarchy Online is that while it promised so much, it never really delivered for me. I wanted the experience of being a Bureaucrat and when I read that, I thought I’d be embroiled in cut-throat sci-fi politics. Turns out I was actually some kind of weird combat class.
now specifically lets look at what you said about "Why The Old Game Isn’t Good Enough Anymore". you very clearly stated it was all about how one of the pet classes had a name that didnt resonate with how YOU would have designed the game. your argument you replied to me with doesnt even resemble what you posted.
you never mentioned the game's major strength. a massive skill based system and and item equipment and tradeskill system unlike any other game, even today. i dont play ao anymore, and havent in years but i stopped for very different reasons and i could give its pluses and minuses based on my experience.
sorry dude, but your review doesnt come off to me as anything less than someone who played the game MAYBE for a month. and even that is debatable.
I wrote "The problem I always had with Anarchy Online is that while it promised so much, it never really delivered for me." I thought that was pretty clear without adding 500 words to the article. I am smart enough to know that sometimes I don't like something that other people do like.
Given my personal history, yes, AO was the least favorite entry on the list. I write these for a general audience and knew that would be a pretty big omission, so I worked it in.
This wasn't meant to be a review of AO any more than it was any of the other games. It was a list to raise discussion and you actually appear to agree with the point I was making. And I freely admit I didn't play AO more than a month and not in a very long time. There are 350+ games on our list, there is no way any single human here can have extensive experience in them all. If I'd written a review on AO, you'd have a valid argument. One entry on a list aimed generally at humor/entertainment, shouldn't require thousands of hours of gameplay logged.
So, if I missed why AO was good, the point of the comment thread is for you guys to debate these choices and say what about each one would make a good remake.
Dana, just for the record, I understood what you were saying about AO without having you write three more pages explaining it. I loved the game too, but not enough to beat someone up over it.
I initially enjoyed UO, AC, AO and DoAC. I left them all for different reasons.
I left UO because of non consensual pvp and roving gangs of griefers. That said, I could deal with it, until UO trashed my main means of escape, the portal rune system. Also, Lord British gets pvp'd and bans the murderer? How childish and so against the whole UO philosophy. Finally, I suggested that building ownership key duplicates be degradable to discourage stealing of said duplicates and crashing someone's house. My suggestion was removed from the forums in less than 12 hours. That was the last straw. Goodbye UO.
I left AC because of the pain in the ass overpop of aggro npcs. It was nearly impossible to travel from place to place overland.
I left AO because the crafting system was too complicated for the dubious rewards of crafted items.
I left DoAC because the pve was too short lived and watered down. However, I did like thier random drop system of special items.
cerebrix states that he is an editor on this site, yet speaks of "crat lass" ( meaning crat class). He can't even edit his own post! LOL
Please see Anarchy Online's launch.
Any game that did what they did these days wouldn't have survived. They slowly turned it around, and it still hurt them for years, but AO went on to be a successful product despite one of the worst launches on record.
Yes, I know about AO. So what? Has absolutely nothing to do with the articles statement that crap launches are no longer tolerated.
edit:
Let me elaborate by saying their launch issues have nothing to do with that statement because it's both an entirely different landscape and that yes, that game would have survived. It would have survived for the same reasons COH survived. The devs busted their ass to fix the game and keep the players happy and interested.
SWG had horrible launch issues. It was and is a terrible game, from design and technical perspectives. It's still stumbling along like a zombie, somehow. I simply cannot see where you can validate that statement you made other than to admit you fabricated it from whole cloth to beef up an otherwise pointless and empty op-ed.
WHY ISN"T STAR WARS GALAXIES ON THERE
Yes, DAOC 2 Please.
Kthnx
As a member of Ultima Online since 2001, there would be many reasons that they still didn't go toward a 3D graphics game. Mainly, many of the players are on free private servers, such as myself. Since it's free, we don't have to many anything for an old game is quite normal. The second point, you can make your own server if you want, as myself, I know how to make whole maps for UO and I could be a GM without any problems. Since it's in isometric 2D, it is more eazy to build and decorate too. Thus, im a heavy roleplayer and I play on french servers only; UO on the main servers might not intertest me like the privates ones. As long as the heavy RP ones need consistant coaching for the RP and animations to keep the world 'alive'. Also, having a new world, not only OSI, as their only maps does quite the job to keep and have an active server. But even with saying all this, I think UO does need a makeover toward a full 3D graphics. Since this sand box style on skills, is still the best one ever in MMO's.
Because they are going to try and tell us that SW:TOR is that sequel...I am not convinced.
I agree with you that SWG should have been in place of CoH.
Ok I've been going through the comments and only just got to around 100+ and if I missed someone's post I am quite sorry. BUT, UO did ever so briefly have a sequel and it was in closed beta for a bit but then they ditched that to focus on UO. I am sure there must still be some screen shots out there someplace for folks to see what UO2 would of been like.
And I found this link to a UO2 trailer from back in the day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EGWBSjHVGI
I don’t care what SOE tells me or how well they integrated Superman into the missions. He’s cooler than any hero I create and always will be.
For me I think the idea of playing with one of your favorite superheros (Green Lantern) is awsome.As long as they balance how heros/villains help/assist you in the game/quest, it should be fine. One of the better rumors I heard about dcuo was how they were going to deal with PvP Ganking/Grieving. Cant remember where I read it, but basicly: Say Said hero was getting ganked by a higher level villain, after to many times of the Villain killing the Low B a NAMED superhero (or villain if the role was reversed) would come in and kick his ares or chase him off. Honestly it would be humorous to boot..."You just got pimp slapped, by superman, AHhaha".
DITTO!!!
Now that companys have seen how big mmo's can get with a big enough player base; I would love to see an swg pre-cu remake with alot more money put into the project allowing them to make the world and enviroments look better and more movie accurate. If they were to do this but include a mandatory pvp standing when aligning with one of the factions this would be the best game of all time.
I completely disagree BY FAR THE MOST IN NEED OF REMAKE GAME ON THIS SITE!!! Is runescape. Runescape's skilling system, and pvp system is the ultimate fun of the early 2000's I dont care if u want to troll or flame this post, but i believe it is seriously one of the founding MMO's that brought alot of ideas out for other MMO's. The drop on death pvp was insane fun and special moves on dragon weapons added a new touch to the stat generated random damage and let you suprise people, That and a new Runescape would just own to rub into the faces of the idiots who dislike the game PURELY because of its outdated graphics.
I would also love to see a pre-cu remake of SWG or any game really with the economy set up of SWG where you build player built fortresses and guild owned towns with tax and with energy refiners and oil pumpers and ore refiners and stuff like that, to me thats what made SWG such an amazing game
1) Ultima Online - strive to make the best skill based character non-class system MMORPG that's fantasy based in a complete sandbox world, using everything learned from gaming up to this point. Earns my #1 spot.
2) Dark Age of Camelot - strive to make the best 3 faction PvP fantasy game for a fantasy MMORPG using everything learned from gaming, including newer and deeper pve questing, raiding, and dynamic "quick action" PvP options on top of normal battlegrounds, open Contested zones with keeps and linked dungeons available solely to those in control, etc. Gaming magnificence here. I expected this with Warhammer Online, and the ball was drop kicked into the sewer instead.
3) Anarchy Online - strive to make the best 2 (or 3) faction PvE with some well planned out PvP MMORPG based on science fiction and cyberpunk themes, along with some limited interstellar travel. Use everything learned from gaming up to this point, and the game couldn't possibly help but draw attention to gamers that aren't into fantasy.
I would agree with some other picks that other people have mentioned, but those would be the very top three games I would like to see redone. I suppose I'd also like to see someone make a great Superhero / Supervillain game that oh, I dunno... has some real freakin' THOUGHT and TESTING put into just two things. Just two small, tiny things.
ENDGAME. And PVP. You know... the things that people start to care about when their character reaches max level and wonder what they should be doing... besides making a brand new character to level up. Cryptic couldn't find the answer to either of those parts of a game if it was taped to their butt and they had a friend helping with both hands free to search.
I just think that UO would never be remade into a fully 3D game because they want it to still be the oldest and longest running MMO title (Guiness Book of Records) So if they were to remake it into a 3D mmo. The old UO will crumble and probably shut down. Sad because no other game will be like UO. The copycats just doesnt have a hold on people as much as it would with UO.
Dana,
Good article. You have generated 23 pages of interesting conversation (so far), so your article succeeded admirably.
Of course after complimenting you I still have to say COH doesn't belong on your list!
See what I mean.
--S
Funny how OP and so many replyers think you get that feeling back by remaking these mmo's it won't happen 100% sure it will never give you that feeling you had when you back then enter those worlds and was amazed and hooked for years to those games.
It would be a bad dicision making those old games again as remake.
I rather see new original ideas for mmo's like AC did and make a mmo's in style of those but completely original world and races.
Or all of you want your whole life playing same game but remake with better grahfics?
What boring thought playing same over and over again NO THX.
But if i choose my list:
1.AC
2.Daoc
3.Shadowbane(Darkfall way better then SB so its already done in away)
4.UO
5. No other i can picture on this spot.
I think a UO 2 would be better with a top down view with todays graphics. The top-down view is kind of what made UO's mechanics unique. Making it a third person 3d world would make it a typical MMO experience in my opinion.
I also agree with AO 2, DAOC 2, AC 3, and I'll add Planetside 2 to it, even though it is rumored to come to life.
Darkfall was actually made by the same DEV who made UO, from Origins.
a remake of AO would be awesome that was my 1st major MMO. i heard it funcom is redoing the engine but only time will tell.
I 100% agree on UO.
Shadowbane should be on that list! Nothing comes close to the gameplay of SB.
If you could mix the skill raise of UO, with the content of WoW, and the open PVP/Stat distribution of SB.....what a game that would be.
FYI) Im not bothering to use search or read 24+ pages and I will most likely never return to this forum.
Remakes allways fail. There has never been a "Part Two" that has kept any kind of fanbase.
1) UO did get redone. It was UO2 that never made it past the "in development" video. Also there was Darkfall - nicknamed Darkfail (yeah Part Two failed again).
2) DAoC should never be re-done. How many sword swining/spell slining MMOs can you play before you cry yourself to sleep at night?
3) CoH got it's part two with CoV, and guess what... City of Rogues is comming soon... RESEACH is key for an opinionated post like this. Also I shouldn't have to mention that pretty much most of all the CoV servers are empty. (need I say fail again?) - Oh forgot to mention that yes I know CoH/CoV are one game now, they did not start that way though just FYI.
4) AO I can't even begin to comment on, due to the fact that other shooter based MMOs like Tabula Rasa made such a BIG impression... on the pavement as all the servers were shutdown quickly after shuch a short lifespan.
5) You said it yourself AC2 was released... why make an AC3 when part two failed so miserably? Also Turbines other "huge hit" DDO was so vastly popular that its now a Micro/Free MMO. Also you forgot to mention that it was a Microsoft product.
I'm not going to try and offend you here but Im sure this might hurt your feelings a little... the $10 they sent you for the writeup is overpaid. This was just a horrable read. I'll chalk this horror up to the fact that its mid October...
PS) I was there for all the launches and I've played them all and more. I have also kept up with the buisness side of things.
EA like any big company are only able to ruin unique games. The only thing that such companies can do is to make commercial craps.
Good article, seems to hit on all the right notes. I have a different opinion on the order but it was a good read none the less.
ShadowBane isn't that bad to be remade... But I guess it would be a #5 like DAoC
Nice headshot, Druz.
Spot on.
replace CoX on the list with vanguard and you have yourself a fine list :]
That there is a pretty decent list. Although why does CoX need a remake? We already have that and in my humble opinion wasn't that great, ok it was but it isn't now since they ramped up the difficulty to a point of insanity, anyway CoX will be getting it's shiny new expansion soon enough. I'd switch that with Auto Assault because unlike all the others (Except AC maybe no familiar with that one) Auto Assault is gone,well maybe not gone but shutdown (And NCsoft keep refusing to sell the source code). Another thing since I don't really know AC I'd replace it with Tabula Rasa another good game by General British.
I don't agree with CoX in the list: not a remake, but making another update with more variety to the missions. That would breath new life into our beloved super hero mmog.
If you want a UO remake, Mortal Online is the one:
www.mortalonline.com
The guy who started this has said the best gaming years of his life happened in UO and he wants to recreate that.
Didn't EA try Ultima Online 2? Or at least it failed to develop.
Runescape - good call
Everquest 1- good call tho EQ2 is most likely the answer
Legend of Mir
Meridian 59
Who wouldn't play World of Warcraft 2 with updated graphics, etc.
DAoC remade using Mount and Blade type combat - I'm there! Add siege machines and destructable walls...OMG gimmee!
Seems to me that in order to have a remake, the game itself must be fairly old. SWg, while old is rather new compared to Ac1 and UO. CoX is also a "next gen" game compared to the old school games.
The only games that would really fit the bill are anything before ... and including ... DAoC/AO. AC1 and UO are the best bets since the game play style is so different than the DIKU MUDS like WoW, Aion, EQ etc we have today. Remake AC1 and UO and you have something both old and new. Remake anything else and its just another EQ clone with different features.
Those asking for SWG pre-cu remake, check Fallen Earth...it has most of the things that made pre-cu SWG great...minus the jedis! ...well, most people dont really see that as a minus!
"On September 25th, the MMO industry turned 12 years old. In 1997, Origin launched Ultima Online and while it wasn’t the first multi-player RPG (MUDs) or even the first one with graphics (Meridian 59), "
Why does everyone say Meridian 59 was the 1st graphical MMO? Especialy if you are writing an article you should put in the effort to look these things up.
From wikipedia:
"Meridian 59, the first commercial, 3D massively multiplayer game, was developed by Archetype Interactive and published in September 1996 by 3DO."
"The Realm was launched in March 1995 for Windows personal computers. It was designed in the tradition of graphical MUDs, before the popular usage of the terms "massively multiplayer" and "MMORPG"." Refering to Sierra's The Realm Online.
Meridian 59 was not the 1st graphical MUD, it was the 1st 3D MUD. The Realm gets no respect, sigh.
MO has only 1st person style though and that will drive many ppl out of it, and a mmorpg to to survive and succed you need big numbers of ppl playing it from start otherwise it will have financial problems and thats bad for every game's future.
UO was my first, and I've never forgotten her. Over the years I've played em all, well almost - never got much into the sci-fi ones other than SWG. I can tell you though, anyone who played that game and allowed themselves to really dive in, still thinks about going back, and what it might be like. Just this month I cancelled my account for the first time, ever... and I started playing back in 97.
I sincerely hope they have plans of redoing this game, BUT with many cautions in place. If you try to change too much of this game, it will fail, and it will fail more quickly than Warhammer and AiC (if that's possible for AoC). If there are any stabs at remaking this game, you must keep it simple. The game survived for as long as it did with a VERY limited amount of content compared to what's out there now, and they did it by keeping things simple.
Off the UO topic for a sec though, I would love to also see an attempt at EQ again, whether it be a remake or an EQ3. Try to make this one have the addiction factor of EQ1 though plz ;) Content overload is killing these games, too much space equals empty areas. No one wants to play solo all the time, and if you do, why are you paying $15+ a month for something you could do on your 360. The social factor is what promotes competition, and it's competition that drives addiction - That's what the next great remake should be based off.
LOTRO...LOTRO....and....LOTRO
I agree with the premise, and those are worthy candidates. But how could you omit EverQuest? EQ was bigger than all of them - before WoW it dominated the genre. EQ is the template on which most of the later games were built. There's a lot of folks out there who played EQ who would love to see a remake - with updated graphics, and based on the classic game - the first three years, when the original dev team were in charge. This one is top of my "I can't believe they haven't done it yet" list. :-)
You wrote:
On September 25th, the MMO industry turned 12 years old. In 1997, Origin launched Ultima Online and while it wasn’t the first multi-player RPG (MUDs) or even the first one with graphics (Meridian 59), it was the first commercially visible game to hit the market and set off a chain of events that led to more half assed, poorly translated imported MMOs than anyone can possibly imagine.
You are wrong. The first graphical mmo was Neverwinter Nights for AOL. It was released 4 years before Meridian 59.
Get your facts straight.
I even played The Realm, you're right I should have mentioned it there, but the larger point is moot since that's not where I was counting from.
Sorry, M59 still appears on our list, The Realm has long since disappeared as far as I know. I simply forgot it when sorting by age.
Nice article. However too bad my favorite is not there.
I am willing to pay a 50$ monthly subscription for working remake of original Shadowbane.
MO has only 1st person style though and that will drive many ppl out of it, and a mmorpg to to survive and succed you need big numbers of ppl playing it from start otherwise it will have financial problems and thats bad for every game's future.
In regards to a MMO requiring big numbers of people playing from the start to make it I believe you are incorrect. I have been playing EVE since 2003 and that game started as a very small game and we were a very very small community (~20K.) The game has done great and been a huge success, growing a lot every year (~300K.)
I would say for a large company like EA or SOE you are correct in that it needs huge numbers at the start to make it. But for indi companies it is much better to grow the game with the playerbase. And this is much more important in a game like EVE, UO or MO that has so many sandbox aspects to it.
CCP did it right with starting EVE small with a small community, it is to be seen how Star Vault will do with remaking UO with MO. I hope MO turns out great as it is time for a game like that.
For MMO's, I am looking for a new or fresh experience rather than I remake of a game I no longer play.
I played DAoC long after release. At that stage the company was updating the game to:
If an old game is still making money, maintaining a game so that it is still playable is one way of extending the income stream and may be a better option than risking venture capital on a complete remake.
City of Heroes is a great game. Don't be put off by some of the above posts that discount the game because it does not match their preferred game style.
MO has only 1st person style though and that will drive many ppl out of it, and a mmorpg to to survive and succed you need big numbers of ppl playing it from start otherwise it will have financial problems and thats bad for every game's future.
Yea I'm a huge UO fan but these 1st person view wannabe remakes are really turning me off. The top-down angle is one of the reasons I loved UO. I think someone above here said it best in that another UO would have to be top-down view with todays graphics otherwise you just have a mediocre MMO trying to come off as "hardcore". UO never had any kind of hardstance on "this is a hardcore game BRO" it was just a sandbox MMO that allowed the community to run the end game.
These Darkfalls and this MO game is nothing like UO if only for the fact that it is in the 1st person view.
The Realm was pretty fun, it would be interested to see it remade into 3D.
Shadowbane should definitely be on the list. The depth of character customisation was incredible. Haven't played a game in which I could make the same class in so many different ways, or play the same spec group in so many different ways. This depth also resulted in incredible PvP as you were always adapting and adjusting your spec group and strategies based off who you were fighting (and if you were on Lore, one fight would be versus a Vampire Necro spec, then a Centuar Prelate spec, a Mino Polarearm or a Dwar Chucker spec... There was incredible variety.) which brought an amazing challenge, especially if you were the one leading your group.
I would pay a hefty fee to play Shadowbane on a better engine with a good population.
I cant say I read this through entirely, simply because I am not conversant with all of the games covered.
I do think its an excellent article with a very good and strong point.
From my perspective, there are too many games out there vying for our time and attention and too many of those are either outright rubbish (rubbish beyond any influence of any objective personal opinion) or are merely a flashy graphics front end pasted on top of old, outworn, poorly implemented ideas and game engines that are so simplistic as to baffle their description as MMO.
Strangely enough, one game that you would have to consider as being worth a remake would be Conquest Online. Pretty poor on the graphics front, with and extermely simple class and combat system, its nevertheless a great game for both group and solo play.
As for those you mentioned AC was a game I never really liked and maybe a spruce up of the graphics and general game mechanics would result in a decent hack and slash.
UO maybe once had some sort of glory, when people were actually there to play with, but I cant say I ever saw that, and, tbh, the hard to see graphics and eye frazzling colour contrasts put me off it almost immediately. Stick Baldur's Gate quality graphics on it and maybe it would be worth some attention.
Perhaps, in some ways, Wurm Online is the remake of UO, having a 3D environment with gorgeous graphics and complete freedom to pursue whatever skills you are interested in right up to the point where the buildings and items you construct are repsresented as part of the landscape. This game is well worth a look if you like Ultima Online.
As an original player of EQ, EQII and AO, I look back with sad nostalgia to the days when the servers were packed with eager, fun loving players in games where team work was an ultimate requirement to success. The same can be said of the revivified DDO.
All of these games, in spite of looking slightly aged with respect to their graphics are games that have eternal appeal, simply because the games themselves are incredibly well written, well balanced and have that immersive quality that any good MMO must have to be recorded in the annals of the glorious.
However, it is not any datedness or inadequacy of these games that would suggest a remake, or necessarily that any of them need any sort of remake, since what makes a game great is not it graphics but its playability.
What really needs a rethink, and all MMO's really have to consider this issue, is how they are marketed.
With the advent of WoW we saw a type of self destructive, predatorial marketing that encourages people, especially younger players, to focus on uberism, soloing and deemphasis of what actually gives an MMO lasting appeal to all age groups, ie the social group play aspect that causes the game to be more than just a computer program but a leisure passtime that is as fun and fascinating as any other passtime that involves interaction with other people.
Its the people that lend the dynamism, fun and excitement in the longterm. No people = no game.
The younger players grow up. They want more from a game than an online solo FPS/RPG in a huge environment. When the game has become too focussed on solo play, the players are inhibited from creating the social environment that would keep those players as they begin to want more from the game than just personal achievement .. as they begin to want the achievement of working well with others.
Those players then leave the game they played to try to find a game that offers that missing something but, all games suffering from that migrational inclination in a market where there are almost more games than players, the market as a whole actually starts to lose players, driving them away with its own cheap marketing policies, with the end result that every game currently, good or bad, is suffering from depopulation.
The solution, perhaps, is not for the games that led the way and are still the best to be revamped, but for those games to be recognised by us for what they always were and still are .. the most playable games on the market.
In return, the companies running those games need to do two things. They must ensure that their player population is not split destructively across multiple servers.
Every game has an effective minimum population which seems to be about 75% of what the developers estimate as the maximum population which the servers at the time could handle.
All the games mentioned are old and were developed for much less powerful hardware. Were each of the companies responsible to invest in more modern servers, capable of twice the population load, and then merge the populations of the current servers so that the new more powerful servers ended up with between 75% and 125% of that initial maximum estimate, then all their servers would be sufficiently highly populated to make the game attractive to new players looking for other players to play with.
Assuming, our hope, that those games then attracted more players, their servers could then be split at around the 150-175% population mark to create new servers to handle incoming population.
Remember that all those old games were written in times when the computer at home was much less powerful, when our internet connections were much less capable. Client side lag, which was a common cause of frustration in the past, should be nearly non-existent in those games now. Similarly, there is no reason for there to be server side lag in older games, given that today's server hardware and internet connections are also to the order of seven times more capable.
Running servers that can cope with twice the initial estimated maximum population should be trivial. Thus consolidating existing populations to make games that much more attractive to new or returning players should be, more or less, simply a matter of investing in servers capable of doing so.
Anarchy Online, 156 Fixer <Famous Last Words>, RK1
Dungeons & Dragons Online, 13 Fighter <Knights of Shadow>, Keeper(?)
EverQuest, 56 Shaman <Miraj>, Venril Sathir
EverQuest II, 55 Assassin <Cult of the Dragon>, Splitpaw
Lord of the Rings, 50 Guardian <Thorin's Shield>, Snowbourn
World of Warcraft, 46 Hunter <The Way>, forget server
Another game in desperate need of revisioning is Diablo3.
It's not even released yet, and I can already tell it will not live up to the standards of the hardcore diablo fans.. It has the look and feel of a diablo game, but none of the key character customization features that made the previous games so enjoyable. It is going to be a major letdown if it ever does release, since for me Diablo&D2 were and still are my top favourite RPG's of all time.
Don't know if it was mentioned, but didn't they kind of try to re-do Ultima Online with Ultima Online Worlds and Ultima X? Not sure of how much money was wasted on those two ventures, but with the market as flooded as it is now with MMORPG's I don't see it happening any time soon unfortunately.
Exactly how is it that people forget the past so quickly? Meridian 59 is listed as an afterthought to UO when talking about the first MMO? Meridian 59 was old and grey by the time UO went into Beta.
Even worse, nobody seems to remember the other original MMO, NeverWinter Nights.
(And somebody stick a sock in the mouth of the first noob that pipes up with "NWN isn't an MMO, and it only came out a few years ago"... FFS. And here I was starting to get the impression that most of the online gaming community were getting to the age where nobody bothered to card them anymore....)
For those who don't remember: NWN (now known as ONWN in light of the new, less impressive games) was an old-school D&D Gold Box game, but online and in a massively (for the time) multiplayer, persistant world. (I think the popcap at that time was 250, later raised to 500? Which was actually damn impressive for the early 90s.) Like M59 it was hosted by an internet service (in this case, AOHell... back in the day when it cost $2.50 an hour to be logged in... Ouch!) There were GMs and farming, level grinds and PvP. There was even epic gear that had to be purchased with live event and PvP ladder rewards. It had virtually all of the trappings of the modern MMO, but with an oldschool graphics engine.
Like a lot of older gamers (man, am I really using the term 'older'?...) I actually kind of apreciated the low end graphics to a certain degree as it fostered more imagination which in turn gives the game more immersion and flexibility. Until graphics and content bloat can catch up to the capabilities of the mind (not to far off with the level of customization we're starting to see in some of the next gen games), the old games still have that one thing going for them. :)
As for a remake of ONWN? I think DDO kind of nailed that one. I actually started playing DDO (this year, after it had had time to mature a bit) because of it's nostalgia value from ONWN.
I played UO from Beta to late 2003, and I have to agree with the op. If they took the game back to it's original roots and update it a little in the graphics department, I'd come back.
UO was and still is the most original MMO ever made.
Awesome. However I think I would put DAoC as number one. I loved that game so much... really brought MMORPG's to the forefront of my gaming time.
Asheron's Call "the lands of Dereth"
One super gigantic unzoned world
No classes
No non human races
AC2 only connection to AC 1 was it was 1000s of years after AC1
When you remake a game you need to keep fun elements of the original game, not throw the whole game out make a brand new game.
This list was pretty good. I agree with pretty much all of them.
COH is a good game. But even in its heydey, its fans wanted more from it. This was supposed to be Champions Online. But IMHO, they changed the formula too much and didn't make as good a game as COH. So the world STILL needs a COH remake.
Great article and ideas.
I have always wondered why companies did not do this instead of making a never ending parade of awful MMO's.
I would agree that this is a real opportunity for some of these companies and yet it goes untapped.
I would support any effort if it was done on the right terms. By remake I would stress it would have to be just a remake. They should remake the engine and return to launch mechanics and begin anew and nothing more. Anything more and they have serious risk of failure. Complete failure. They should get the idea from everyone that cries about classic servers and begs to return to the original game and just do it simply. Remake the original game and nothing more.
AO for #1! Go away with AoC, I want AO2 :))
I wholeheartedly agree about UO, or at least a game similar to that. As you said, it's amazing that no one has tried to rip off the concepts of UO like they did EQ ( WoW and everything else, though EQ ripped off DIKUMud).
I think I know the answer as to why no one has attempted it, and that is it's just plain hard to do right.Star Wars Galaxies came close in many ways. IMO the parts of the game that worked were the sandbox UO loike parts.Player housing/cities, the deep crafting system, exploration.Where they totally screwed the pooch was their crappy take on classes, unfinished or broken skill trees,etc.., and their total failure at making you feel like you were actually playing in the Star Wars universe. And the whole fiasco about how they introduced and handled Jedi into the game really pissed a lot of people off, including me.
i think they are going to revamp AO with AOC graphics.
Ultima Online is - hands down - the best game I ever ever played (and still playing for more than ten years). And hitting 37 in a couple of months, believe me, I played hundreds (if not thousands) of games since the early 80s.
Would I have to rate UO on a scale from 1 to 100 where UO is getting the 100, the second place would not even get above 50.
UO still - in its current state - wipes the floor with all those wannabe MMOs out there.
Personally: I consider all other MMOs out there totally crap (although I can not speak for Eve Online).
Sure, there are some nice games out there, e.g. Vanguard, Darkfall Online (do not believe the bad rating of that game), Mortal Online somewhere in the future, but all of them come not even close to UO. Theres great crafting in Vanguard, but where is the PvP? Darkfall Online as being a copy of UO has not implemented all parts of UO: where is the taming? Where is the stealing?
I honestly doubt that there will ever be another game with the same game depth as UO.
The Realm was launched in March 1995 for Windows personal computers. It was designed in the tradition of graphical MUDs, before the popular usage of the terms "massively multiplayer" and "MMORPG". You may of had to zone ever screen.. but the fights were fun, the quests were fun and I think it is what lead to EverQuest's success!.. until Wow came along..
I'd like to say, since I was a part of this eon, that the above show's clearly Merdain 59 was almost a full year after The Realm launched.. Even to this day I don't feel that Ultima Online held a candle to it.. Don't get me wrong I loved the Ultima RPG series, However, Ultima Online had way to many short falls, throughout its whole life..
The Realm Online will always be the Father of MMO's, at least for me!
IMO, which isn't worth two peanut hulls !!!
I must say UO being on top was no surprise. They ended up killing that game by adding more and more nonsense and making things easier to appease the instant gratification wants of the younger generations.
I would be inclined to ask the staff here at mmorpg.com to get an interview with some of the EA staff and grill them on why they have turned their back on a game that could literally line their pockets with gold(and a pack llama). While their are at it invite me to the meeting so I can grill them on AOS, KR, neon colored half aprons and ninjas....
i think they are going to revamp AO with AOC graphics.
They already revamped the engine.........which doesn't mean that AO will get new graphics though.
Someone was left in fel without a stone a few too many times....lol