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Visionary Realms | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Development  (est.rel 2017)  | Pub:Visionary Realms
Distribution:Download | Retail Price:n/a | Pay Type:Subscription
System Req: PC Mac | Out of date info? Let us know!

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80 posts found
  blutigfaust

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 94

2/21/14 2:22:06 PM#41
Originally posted by handlewithcare

I bought shroud of the avatar and its already in testing.

pantheon is connected to shroud if people want to fund it and get rewards so I don't think the portelarium team will screw their own crowd funders.

You don't know the power of Greed then.

Current games playing: Archeage-alpha
Games being watched: Repopulation, and Divergence
Favorite played games: SWG, RomaVictor, and Xsyon

  Nirrtix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 180

2/21/14 2:38:36 PM#42
I think it is amazing people think this is a scam... do you guys know who Brad McQuaid is? HE made Everquest, which is one of the main games KiddieCraft is based off of. Everquest was the King of MMO's until WoW came out. The only reason WoW became king was EQ was getting old and SoE changed the games in ways that players did not like, so they tried something new and abandoned it.

Nirrtix
ALPHAs:
-Pantheon
-Shroud of the Avatar
-Camelot Unchained
BETAs:
-World of Warcraft
-City of Heroes
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Saga of Ryzom
-Homeworld
-Starcraft II
-Warcraft III
-Hearthstone
-Star Wars The Old Republic
-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  Nirrtix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 180

2/21/14 2:42:07 PM#43
Originally posted by Fiben

Wait, Brad wants actual money again?? Run away.

Brad makes a wonderful game and should be both employed and well paid for doing just that, BUT he should never be in charge of funds or organization of a major project.  He is just the kind of creative person that should always be working for an actual grown-up, and the restrictions he has previously railed against are what the rest of the  world refer to as reality.

 

Some people just simply work better with supervision, and Brad is one of them.  I'm all for throwing all kinds of money at one of his projects, just please please have a grownup receive and disburse it.

MAybe you should blame the publishers who gave him the money. HE made the game he got over ambitions. Microsoft canned Vanguard and SoE released it basically on life support, when WoW's expansion came out. SoE doomed Vanguard the day they released it on life support. To blame that all on Brad is totally unfair.

Brad made Everquest and it was a financial success... so based on one incident you condemn him?

Nirrtix
ALPHAs:
-Pantheon
-Shroud of the Avatar
-Camelot Unchained
BETAs:
-World of Warcraft
-City of Heroes
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Saga of Ryzom
-Homeworld
-Starcraft II
-Warcraft III
-Hearthstone
-Star Wars The Old Republic
-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4573

2/21/14 2:43:02 PM#44
Originally posted by Nirrtix
I think it is amazing people think this is a scam... do you guys know who Brad McQuaid is? HE made Everquest, which is one of the main games KiddieCraft is based off of. Everquest was the King of MMO's until WoW came out. The only reason WoW became king was EQ was getting old and SoE changed the games in ways that players did not like, so they tried something new and abandoned it.

Yes..that's the only reason wow became king. The 450k people playing EQ left...had hundreds of babies each and they all played wow.

btw, I think there's some space at the top of your post you could jam another kickstarter link in.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Nirrtix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 180

2/21/14 2:44:56 PM#45
Originally posted by Vrika

My guess is that it's a fraud.

In their Kickstarter campaign they are promising the game as one of their Kickstarter rewards, and Kickstarter's terms of use require them to either fulfill that promise to backers or refund the money. Yet, in the same Kickstarter project pages they admit themselves that they can't make the MMO with just 800 000$ even if the Kickstarter were successful.

They only explain that they "will visit other funding opportunities"  if crowdfunding won't get them a lot more than 800 000$, without revealing any more detailed info about what other funding opportunities they have. One would think, that if they'd have other funding opportunities they'd advertise it a bit more so that backers would trust that the project gets finished. I think they don't really know how to get the rest of the funding if Kickstarter doesn't exceed its goal.

If the Kickstarter were successful, and they'd start spending that 800 000$ after admitting themselves that they won't be able to finish the project and deliver the product with just that money, they'd get quickly into a situation where they can't either deliver the sold game nor refund the money as it's spent. That would be against the agreement, and when done knowing that the project has no realistic chance of being successful it would be a fraud.

Hon the kickstarter was never intended to be their only funding... Camelot Unchained did the same thing. Both intend to either get a publisher if they have to or do on-site donations.

I think it is amazing how so many here make assumptions that make no sense.  Of course you cannot make an MMO with $800k they say in the FAQ on the kickstarter they will reach out for alternative funding including on-site funding.

Nirrtix
ALPHAs:
-Pantheon
-Shroud of the Avatar
-Camelot Unchained
BETAs:
-World of Warcraft
-City of Heroes
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Saga of Ryzom
-Homeworld
-Starcraft II
-Warcraft III
-Hearthstone
-Star Wars The Old Republic
-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  Nirrtix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 180

2/21/14 2:48:34 PM#46

That is my signature... do not blame me for having faith in the project.... you are right about WoW and EQ. SoE released changes to the game and people left. Also 1 month prior EQ2 came out and that divided the community some too.

What boggles my mind is that people still play WoW...

Nirrtix
ALPHAs:
-Pantheon
-Shroud of the Avatar
-Camelot Unchained
BETAs:
-World of Warcraft
-City of Heroes
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Saga of Ryzom
-Homeworld
-Starcraft II
-Warcraft III
-Hearthstone
-Star Wars The Old Republic
-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  Buccaneer

Novice Member

Joined: 10/31/07
Posts: 427

2/21/14 5:13:24 PM#47
Originally posted by Nirrtix
I think it is amazing people think this is a scam... do you guys know who Brad McQuaid is? HE made Everquest, which is one of the main games KiddieCraft is based off of. Everquest was the King of MMO's until WoW came out. The only reason WoW became king was EQ was getting old and SoE changed the games in ways that players did not like, so they tried something new and abandoned it.

Dayna you also have to remember he was responsible for VG and the launch of VG has left a bitter taste in lots of people's mouth's.

  Vrika

Elite Member

Joined: 10/03/05
Posts: 2020

2/22/14 3:52:28 AM#48
Originally posted by Nirrtix

Hon the kickstarter was never intended to be their only funding... Camelot Unchained did the same thing. Both intend to either get a publisher if they have to or do on-site donations.

I think it is amazing how so many here make assumptions that make no sense.  Of course you cannot make an MMO with $800k they say in the FAQ on the kickstarter they will reach out for alternative funding including on-site funding.

Camelot Unchained devs were able to promise that they'd have 5 million dollars for the game development if the Kickstarter was funded.

Pantheon devs admit that they need other sources of income, but are unable or unwilling to tell how they are going to get them.

That's why I think Camelot Unchained devs are honestly trying to develop a game, whereas Pantheon devs are trying to commit a fraud without realistic chance of delivering their promises.

  emota

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 325

2/22/14 3:59:18 AM#49
Originally posted by saxifr

It sounds like they have no product, they put a kickstarter up to get paid 800k for some concept art and whatever work they have already done.

 

There is no game or product or anything that results from this kickstarter. People keep talking about "this game" - what game? there isn't any game. 

There is no product or game period.

 

The product they are currently selling since the Kickstarter appears to be kaput is a subscription to a forum to talk about the game they are allegedly making..fair enough.

But even that also seems like a rip-off of how SOE has been marketing landmark and EQN.

 

It's kind of sad at best, and I honestly wonder if it is not an outright attempt to rip people off.

Seriously? 

  shmashed

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/08
Posts: 15

3/18/14 2:23:04 AM#50

Someone earlier in this post said he looks exhausted in the videos so he must be working hard.  Not to troll, but all I could think of is, I wonder if its the drugs he was rumored to be on back in 2006?  I don't know what to believe about this guy anymore.  He reminds me of this genius uncle of mine who is a medical doctor but also happens to be a major addict of just about every substance possible.  When he isn't suspended or high, hes apparently an extremely gifted doctor.  And when hes on his game he can decieve anyone.   But when he isn't, his deception is just as pathetic as this kickstarter.  The whole thing is just one long series of trigger words aimed to pull at the heartstrings of a classic era EQ player:  Group focused, exploration, teamwork, friends, open world, team, grouping, strategy, groups, risk vs reward, groups, group oriented, challenging...did I mention grouping?   Then more talk of fine steel weapons, WTB SoW,  no ! over quest givers, other popular bits of eq culture and common complaints of the mmorpg genre for the last 10 years. It sounds really great.  But then I saw the  3.5 million dollar stretch goal for crafting and all of a sudden I start to worry.  How can *crafting* be a stretch goal 4.5 times as large as the original goal?  Did anyone put more than 30 minutes thought into this Kickstarter?

 

Lets all admit it that either fairly or not, this guy is in the penalty box and subject to stricter rules until we can trust him again.  Hearing he was hired back at SOE in 2012 and working on Vanguard was the first positive thing I had heard about the man since the Vanguard fiasco.  He had a lot of penance to do and I kind of thought this might go towards that.  Instead, he bounces to EQ team and then out after just a year.  I didn't play either game during that time period so I don't know if he accomplished much or not, but it looks as if it were just a simple short term scouting trip.  Then he makes this kickstarter with no actual product to speak of, and has the balls to state the project "has been funded solely from our own pockets."  Project? Or scheme?  The guys who work on the "project" then talk about it for the video....  Except they look like they are reading from a cue card.  They clearly aren't speaking from the heart about this project because there is no project about which to speak.  I've seen better acting on informercials.  Some people in the video are even speaking in past tense as if something has already been created when clearly it has not.  Only one or maybe two guys were even slightly believable.

 

I dearly want to trust every word he is saying.  If I did, I would make a large donation.  But I get the feeling he has reached out to investors and been told hes too big of a risk.  I think he would have been better served by staying with SOE until EQ Next launches.  If EQN launch is deemed a failure (and most mmo are), then EQ fans will capitulate and would gleefully throw money at McQuaid to keep the dream alive.  With that funding he could secure investors.  Since rejoining SOE is likely not in the cards as a possibility, he could maybe stay relevant in the mmorpg scene in some other way.  He is one of the biggest names in the business.  He should have options for employment that would provide him a platform with which he can express his opinions and win people back over.  Because for most mmo fans who don't read the news, the last thing we heard of McQuaid is him disappearing after the horrid Vanguard launch and all the rumors that followed.  Now he shows back up with a few sketches, asking for 800,000 dollars.  Its kind of sad.  He is stuck in a paradox where not many people are willing to invest with him until he actually has a product to show us.  Yet, he doesn't have the money to make that basic product.  This is poor planning.

  Castekin1000

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/22/08
Posts: 38

3/18/14 2:19:00 PM#51
Originally posted by shmashed

 I think he would have been better served by staying with SOE until EQ Next launches. 

 

 

He could not stay with SOE until eq next launches because he got made redundant.  Always be aware no company ever gets rid of their best employees they get rid of their deadwood.

 

  DeVoDeVo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/13
Posts: 87

3/18/14 3:54:07 PM#52
On their website, the donation total has been stuck at around $150,000 for a couple weeks now.  PROTF needs to find an investor or it will be vapor.
  saxifr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/02/05
Posts: 388

 
OP  3/18/14 9:58:23 PM#53
Originally posted by DeVoDeVo
On their website, the donation total has been stuck at around $150,000 for a couple weeks now.  PROTF needs to find an investor or it will be vapor.

Seems like it was never anything more than vapor

RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!

  vandal5627

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/04/12
Posts: 318

4/08/14 12:20:19 PM#54
Originally posted by saxifr
Originally posted by DeVoDeVo
On their website, the donation total has been stuck at around $150,000 for a couple weeks now.  PROTF needs to find an investor or it will be vapor.

Seems like it was never anything more than vapor

With Brad Mcquaid running the show, it's definitely going to be vapor.  This guy should not be running a team and he's running a company?  Aint going to happen.  He should leave these jobs to the big boys and just sit in his corner and code shit.

  tyrancy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/31/04
Posts: 29

Nothing to see here move along.

5/03/14 9:54:37 AM#55
Originally posted by saxifr

It sounds like they have no product, they put a kickstarter up to get paid 800k for some concept art and whatever work they have already done.

 

There is no game or product or anything that results from this kickstarter. People keep talking about "this game" - what game? there isn't any game. 

There is no product or game period.

 

The product they are currently selling since the Kickstarter appears to be kaput is a subscription to a forum to talk about the game they are allegedly making..fair enough.

But even that also seems like a rip-off of how SOE has been marketing landmark and EQN.

 

It's kind of sad at best, and I honestly wonder if it is not an outright attempt to rip people off.

If you believe the latest news from the site and rerolled Brad took 45K for himself for *Personal use Sounds like a personal piggy bank to me.

Keep moving.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5632

5/03/14 10:25:54 AM#56

Short answer is yes, this is a total scam. Charging $15/mo for forum access should have been a good indicator. Keeping the $160k for "website upkeep" should be the clincher.

The long answer is maybe they'll get someone with deep pockets to eventually help them make the game and you'll get to pay again to play it. People with money don't usually throw their money at a company that can't manage their finances though so good luck with that.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Convo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/07/05
Posts: 169

5/03/14 11:01:29 AM#57

From someone who supported this project from very early on, all I can say is in the end, Brad grossly mismanaged this entire thing.   Not to mention he lied and stole.   He's a desperate person, and I don't trust desperate people.  They tend to lie and steal.  Which he did..

 

His behavior is inexcusable and those who defend it because they think they will get a game from this, are only perpetuating the situation and making it worse.  Brad needs to shut this thing down and completely go away.  The community can't afford to pay him to make a game we all want.  He's too irresponsible and selfish. 

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2745

5/03/14 4:27:44 PM#58

Somehow "I/We told you so...." does not quite cut it.

And lol at McQuaid pocketing 45k for himself. When you give someone money with no strings attached, that is what happens.

  tyrancy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/31/04
Posts: 29

Nothing to see here move along.

5/04/14 7:54:17 PM#59

Just posted on the OFFICIAL Pantheon FB Page:

McQuaid received $45k out of the $147k raised with the remainder, plus stock/equity in the company, going to the team (and a small amount to attorneys fees and other incidentals) All had bills to pay, most had been out of work since Sept. 2013, and it was a tough time financially for both McQuaid and the entire team (many took on other part time jobs as well, so while a lot of work was indeed done on Pantheon, it wasn't as much as would have been achieved had the company sufficient funds for an office and full time employees).

McQuaid regrets taking any money out and 'counting his chickens before they hatch'; in other words, until the funding was actually in the bank, McQuaid shouldn't have counted on it and, despite being cash poor, with medical and other bills piling up, should not have taken any money out of the company until funding was in the bank.

 

*****

Embezzlement is the act of dishonestly withholding assets for the purpose of conversion (theft) of such assets by one or more individuals to whom such assets have been entrusted, to be held and/or used for other purposes.

An example of conversion is when a person logs checks in a check register or transaction log as being used for one specific purpose and then explicitly uses the funds from the checking account for another and completely different purpose.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embezzlement

*****

People paid to support the development of Pantheon. People did NOT pay to support personal bills. Brad is asset rich. liquidate personal assets first to pay personal bills. In criminal law, misappropriation is the intentional, illegal use of the property or funds of another person for one's own use or other unauthorized purpose. It is a felony, a crime punishable by a prison sentence.

This is News and these are facts.

Keep moving.

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2745

5/05/14 2:40:30 AM#60
Originally posted by tyrancy

Just posted on the OFFICIAL Pantheon FB Page:

McQuaid received $45k out of the $147k raised with the remainder, plus stock/equity in the company, going to the team (and a small amount to attorneys fees and other incidentals) All had bills to pay, most had been out of work since Sept. 2013, and it was a tough time financially for both McQuaid and the entire team (many took on other part time jobs as well, so while a lot of work was indeed done on Pantheon, it wasn't as much as would have been achieved had the company sufficient funds for an office and full time employees).

McQuaid regrets taking any money out and 'counting his chickens before they hatch'; in other words, until the funding was actually in the bank, McQuaid shouldn't have counted on it and, despite being cash poor, with medical and other bills piling up, should not have taken any money out of the company until funding was in the bank.

 

*****

Embezzlement is the act of dishonestly withholding assets for the purpose of conversion (theft) of such assets by one or more individuals to whom such assets have been entrusted, to be held and/or used for other purposes.

An example of conversion is when a person logs checks in a check register or transaction log as being used for one specific purpose and then explicitly uses the funds from the checking account for another and completely different purpose.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embezzlement

*****

People paid to support the development of Pantheon. People did NOT pay to support personal bills. Brad is asset rich. liquidate personal assets first to pay personal bills. In criminal law, misappropriation is the intentional, illegal use of the property or funds of another person for one's own use or other unauthorized purpose. It is a felony, a crime punishable by a prison sentence.

This is News and these are facts.

Well, you see, none of that means a damn, when the money is "donated" as opposed to invested.

And all of that BS that the boosters of this game kept repeating when talking of "investing in the game" is nothing but hot air.

Of the things you cite, most only apply to money that is actually, legally, invested, where the investors get something for something: shares in a company, rights to a percentage of some kind of revenue, bonds or other negotiable instruments, some quantifiable interest, for the capital they invest. Until something like that happens, no fiduciary responsibility attaches, at all.

When you "donate" money to some effort, i.e. what the people did for this game after the failed KS, you have absolutely no say in what it is used for or how it is spent or who takes it. Nor is McQuaid legally required to do anything, nor is there anything stopping him from taking a big chunk of the donated money as "salary". Or giving out bags of money in the lobby.

In short, nothing he did is illegal, as the money was donated.

So to answer the title is, yes, the whole thing is a scam.

Every dollar donated went to the Brad McQuaid sheep sheering fund, and the people he fleeced were the sheep.

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