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Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Forum » General Discussion » Old School Gaming - Whats the same, whats new and differant?

3 posts found
  User Deleted
OP  2/22/14 2:40:27 PM#1

So far I came up with these, but I have alot of questions yet before I dive fully in.   Most of these old systems have changed with modren gaming because of something that made them change.  I really want to know how we address the problems of some of these systems to make the game last long term.


1)     Focus on group play -  Will there be an ability to solo anything when there is no one around to group with, how do you advance when there is no one around to group with?


2)     Tank, Healer, Dps - Liked this in old school games.  Biggest problem was never finding a healer or tank, so I think alot of games are starting to get rid of  this system.   What can you do if you cannot find a tank or a healer to party with?  Whats the incentive to be a tank or healer?


3)     Slow Levels -  Leveling will be really slow like in past games.  in EQOA levels used to be 1-50 taking a month to achieve of solid grinding.    The problems that always arose from this type of slow leveling depending on group play was the fact that if your 23, and no one your level range was around to group you might have to wait days just to get a party.   FFXI fixed this problem with level sync, while other games fixed this by allowing solo playing to max lvl.  What would Pantheon do to avoid someone getting stuck at a level range without others to group with?


4)     Max level AA's - Advancment points, in EQOA we called these CM.  How long will it take to max this AA system out and will it take 3 years like the CM system in EQOA and Will players who max them out be so far superiour then a noob max level character,  that will in turn result in others passing up the noob max player,  FFXIV has a huge problem with this feature of the game in the form of gear, some games have this problem in AA points like EQ2,  where there will be a requrired AA for people to join raids and do things.   How will the company allow noob max level characters join the same content as a maxed AA player?


5)     Reptilian, T'jinn, Revenant, Ogre, Human, Halfling, Gnome, Dwarf, Elf.   Not much on this one, but where is the Troll, Dark Elf, Hobbit, Barbarian, Erudite? Also, is a Hobbit considered a halfling, a gnome, or a dwarf?


6) Crafting relevant and part of social atmosphere -  I'm glad to hear this, but how is it a very important part of social interactions, is it through making the best gear, crafters have to obtain multiple craft drops from group play to earn a living like in eqoa, in what way does social interaction play a key role in crafting?


7)     Once most peoples characters are maxed out, there will be expansions -   What kind of expansions are you hoping for,  new dungeons, raids, new camps for group gameplay?


8)     Class base teleportation  wizard and potentially pet class  -  Shouldnt this really be the ONLY form of travel allowed?


9)     Mounts - varied speeds and tiers -   Are Mounts really nessecary?  Exploration of the game world via speed buffs and on foot would give a much more imersive gameplay I always thought.    Nothing ruins exploration worse then being on a mount and having to mount and dismount when ever you see something instresting to kill or interact with while you are exploring.


10)     Fighting into the depths of a dungeon can be perilous and require strategy, preparation, and skill to overcome difficult encounters  -   I really loved the fact we could journey atleast an hour into dungeons and really feel this.   How long will dungeons be, will it take longer then 15 min speed runs, or 30 mins regular dungeons?   Exactly how long will they be, and how many bosses in each dungeon?


11)     Brad was also a founder of Verant Interactive and its Vice President. After Verant's acquisition by Sony Online Entertainment, Brad served at SOE as Vice President of Premium Games responsible for the hit games EverQuest, EverQuest 2, EverQuest Online Adventures, PlanetSide, and Star Wars: Galaxies. In addition, Brad was the company's Chief Creative Officer.

Personal Question:  When Brad was Chief Creative Officer of these games,  whos decision was it in SOE to allow almost all of the games on the list to not be updated on a regular basis, and not have constant expansions that would have kept these games end life last far longer then they did?    I great example would be EQOA, and how we got Frontiers Expansion but it never got updated, and we had camps on mainland that never got updates for 3 years straight, and when new camps were added to the game it was to the mainland and not to the newest content of Frontiers Odus, Why?    Was that because of Brad?


12)     take today’s tech, take what you’ve learned (good and bad, from your successes and failures), and bring us a new MMO that gives us the same feeling and memories your earlier games did.   


What will be new tech that is added to this game, is it updated graphics like ESO has?  

Will enough of the game stay Old School gaming enough for people to pass up new games like ESO for it?


When I look at new games like ESO and go, thats what I dreamed of an EQOA 2,  how can old school games compete with these kind of new games now coming out.    If Pantheon Project was started about 3 years ago, A VERY lot of people would have thrown a kickstarter to it.   Myself included.   So now I got to ask myself,  will it be as good as ESO, which is my EQOA Next?   Or will it have the same mistakes as old school games had, and fail to be updated, given expansions when needed,  will there be fixes for problems like lack of groups to play with?   All questions i still have for this game.   I might not fund it right now, but if it does get released, you can bet I will buy it,  as a old school gamer who wants to see more old school games.    Maybe someday an interviewr can ask these questions for me before I think about throwing money or playing the game.   Wish it the best of success,  I'll be there when it happens.



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Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2064

2/22/14 10:17:28 PM#2

1)  You can solo in pretty much every single old school MMO, but it was highly dependent on your chosen class (for example pet classes could typically solo very well), your gear, and getting necessary buffs from nearby classes in order to do so.  These games encouraged you to group and if you were serious about progression you typically grouped the entire time.  Pantheon will allow solo play, but it won't likely be as effective as grouping.

2)  It was actually easier to form up groups in old school MMOs because of their larger group sizes, less elitism about DPS and certain classes, and set roles for support and CC.  On top of that the games being group based meant there were ALWAYS groups going on for just about any kind of content.  As for the incentive for being a tank or healer it's the same as any modern MMO with the trinity, you get groups near instantly due to demand.  Pantheon has at least a 6 member group size so this shouldn't be an issue.

3)  I'm definitely in favor of apprenticeship/mentorship/level sync to help alleviate this problem as it is a problem; however slower leveling means less people will be at endgame so it's usually easier to find groups at lower levels than in other MMOs.  No clue if this will be the case in Pantheon.  They said they might include the Brotherhood system from Vanguard, but it's not the same as level sync if your friend doesn't get in on it with you from the start.

4)  Typically in Everquest the average player never reached capped AA points because it took just as long as a normal level to acquire them and you need something like 500+ (more with more expansions) to cap.  Only a few who used leveling exploits that were later fixed (like Bard kiting in Halls of Honor) actually reached the cap.  As far as "noob" max level players joining raid content with maxed out AA players, why should they?  There will be guilds that casually raid that accept those types of players and there will be guilds that require a set number of AA I'm sure.  If you want to join a hardcore raiding guild, grind out those AAs, if you want to do casual raiding join a guild that doesn't require it.  I don't see the problem here.

5)  Assuming you are referring to Pantheon there are Hobbits (Halflings) as part of the stretch goal and Dark Elves fall under a subrace of Elves.  There are also 3 subraces of Humans so we might see Barbarians and Erudites.  Who knows?

6)  I have no idea, since crafting in Everquest didn't really require social interaction and was just a long tedious process most people didn't go through unless they wanted to do their Coldain quest.  The few that did made a fortune once Planes of Power came out, but crafting was generally a waste of time IMO before that.

7)  I think they pretty much stated there will be expansions in Pantheons.

8)  You mean fast travel?  In EQ it was specific to certain classes, but they later added more fast travel with Luclin and Planes of Power expansions.  There were other methods for traveling faster such as having a Bard escort you with Selo's, Jboots, SOW, and Mages using Call of Heroes to summon you (but it only worked if you were in the same zone).

9)  I think they are leaving mounts as a possibility now since they removed mounts from the Kickstarter tiers so there may be no mounts.

10)  They mentioned they are looking into making content for players who cannot invest more than an hour or two into doing one specific thing each day in the game.  This could possibly mean shorter dungeons.  They have instances too for story as well as public dungeons.  It's hard to say how big the dungeons will be and how long they take to complete, though they do have one of the dungeon designers of EQ working on the project and those dungeons were huge and complex compared to modern MMOs.

11)  I seriously doubt Brad had anything to do with that.  As he himself said he wasn't really working on or making games in those position, and I honestly doubt he had much of a say compared to say Smedley in the business side of things.

12)  The tech is Unity3D.  The graphics quality it can produce depend on the art quality and programmers though.  Overall it's no modern CryEngine or Unreal engine though, so there will be limitations and with the budget I wouldn't expect top notch graphical quality, but it will likely look like a next gen game.

I don't think TESO will be that popular.  It will lose a lot of subs after the first couple months before going free to play like SW:TOR I predict.  EQ Next is much more of a threat to Pantheon.  TESO might be the game for you as an old school MMOer, but most of the ones I know are passing on it because they see numerous issues with it.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:


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Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3507

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

3/13/14 5:05:39 AM#3

1. Focus on group play -  Will there be an ability to solo anything when there is no one around to group with

Um, no ? Thats exactly what this game isnt supposed to be.

I expect some classes to be able to solo certain mobs anyway, though.


2)     Tank, Healer, Dps

Yes you need tank and healer. Treat your tanks and healers nicely so they dont lose motivation to play, or start playing another damage dealer instead.

Anyway, theres a chance they will have 8 people groups. That means you only need 1 tank and 1 healer per 8 people.


3)     Slow Levels

Okay, I'm starting to sense a pattern now.

If you dont want this kind of gameplay, THEN LOOK ELSEWHERE. Tons and tons of games that already have the "modern", shallow structure you apparently long for.

Why do you want to make the ONE game that does NOT do these things be the same than all the rest, too ?!?!?!