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Trials of Ascension Forum » General Discussion » Updated Kickstarter and Stretchgoals!

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39 posts found
  rk1191

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 13

10/27/13 3:38:17 PM#21
Originally posted by The1ceQueen

I'm not afraid of it, I just don't care for the mechanic in an MMORPG. Single player game, fine..Not for an MMORPG.

 

If you're feeling like you want to pledge, but are unsure about one aspect of the game, I implore you to join the forums. They are a bunch of amazing people who would certainly calm your concern!

 

This game certainly isn't "progression based" like other MMOs. Other games focus on individual progression, while ToA focuses on settlement/community progression as well as progression in the world. Your character will Permadie, but everything you ever did will still be in the world. There is no huge gap between a "level 1" and a "level 80" like in WoW. In fact, there are no levels, so you essentially lose nothing.

  Yaevindusk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1101

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

10/27/13 5:45:19 PM#22

 

I was an early supporter of this game back in 2002 or whenever that was.  It had some truly amazing ideas such as being kings and such of your own kingdom and basically having everyday life.  The prospect of permanent death was an interesting one in how they presented it; if you assassinate a king, it isn't realistic if they keep on coming back and they just rule again with an added intent to get their assassins.

 

It also had an idea whereby you actually got married to other characters and had actual children; these children would then be given to actual players as they created their characters.  In that light, each child will have a mother and a father who would take care of them, give them items and basically teach them the game if they were new.  If no player was available, or no child... ahem, procreated, then they would be given NPC parents or children that would help them in a lot of ways (or the child would always follow and protect the mother).

 

Then there was the torturing, the dragging, the crafting... it all had some unique elements to it.  Though nowadays I'm not sure how permanent death would work, especially if you keep your character alive for months at a time and learn powerful spells / crafting / make some great stuff that is associated with your name.  It would be disheartening for me to lose a character and I would likely just quite from depression and realize that I've outgrown gaming (the whole quitting a game after years of playing already gives me buyer's remorse in terms of purchases made and time spent... if I lost it all it would probably be even worse).  The difference between an old game that gave three lives and this is that those were meant to be 15 minute to 30 minute play throughs that were tough.  This is a persistent world we're talking about, and even if characters are made to be thrown away, may want to be attached to them (it's even a way to keep subscribers and people playing) and or will be after just a few days on some epic experiences they may have with them at any point.

 

With that said, I just don't see the market for this in terms of actually making money.  It will have a following of people who love it, and to them it will probably be the best game they've played.  Though it's kind've worrisome that they likely won't make the money needed to properly support the game what with the associated feelings of MMORPG gamers nowadays and the attachments they have with their characters.  Maybe even the compromise that Star Citizen is doing by allowing a player to keep everything they've earned, but just force a character name change and appearance when they're out.

 

As a whole I would've loved the first incarnation of the game, and was sad that no investors picked it up due to the genre being fairly small way back then.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  MumboJumbo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3066

Veni, Vidi, Converti

10/28/13 6:50:12 AM#23
Originally posted by Yaevindusk

With that said, I just don't see the market for this in terms of actually making money.  It will have a following of people who love it, and to them it will probably be the best game they've played.  Though it's kind've worrisome that they likely won't make the money needed to properly support the game what with the associated feelings of MMORPG gamers nowadays and the attachments they have with their characters. 

It will be high satisfaction for small number of people. I actually think this could be more optimal for mmorpgs where the smaller number have more satisfaction and commitment thereby creating a better community (less anonymous, less anti-social + higher player engagement and interaction).

But for a small mmorpg to be viable it needs that lower number to be high enough to pay the bills and expect some form of growth (ie profits to plough back in as well as pay the devs remuneration at a market rate they're happy with). Vendetta Online have been able to get by for over a decade so it is possible. Even The Repopulation is doing well to get to alpha but limited by investment to hit that spot where it will be fun for a sufficient number of players to start generating revenue. All these are different and interesting mmorpg WORTH trying, but they need to be at a level of polish and sustainable in drawing from the market a rate of player uptake to build a core community that is high satisfaction. For the big investors that is totally uninteresting and for the mmorpg player they too often blinded by the bs shiny (yet well polished) graphics of the big investor pubs games imho.

  tom_gore

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1789

10/28/13 6:57:28 AM#24
Originally posted by Myrdynn

bummed this is the first game I have backed on KS.

at its current pace, it wont even get close to what its asking for, much less stretch goals.

I wonder why companies put their goal so high, so they end up getting nothing.

This might reach 200k, which would help them alot, but if it doesnt reach 750, they get nothing

 

Given that there are already KS projects which have failed to deliver with small funds (Takedown), it's good that they ask for enough. If they can't get 750k, they should realize they don't have enough interest from the playerbase to make their idea viable for a full-fledged MMO. Mortal Online had many times the money they are asking and even then they could not make a game that would attract enough players to be profitable.

This game is very hardcore to today's MMO standards and it means the target audience is going to be very niche.

Personally, I would hope if/when this KS fails, they will instead try to go the Minecraft route and start with a barebone alpha version you can already buy and play. If it's addictive enough, it will quickly expand and they will have their funding, plus invaluable feedback from people already playing their alpha.

 

  coretex666

Elite Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1722

"I shall take your position into consideration"

10/28/13 7:24:05 AM#25

I quickly read the info on the kickstarter page and have to say that this game does look interesting.

Hope it gets funded.

Playing: Chronicle 1
Waiting for: None of the games already announced

My game concept thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/369707 (any feedback appreciated)

  PsiKahn

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 123

10/28/13 8:35:30 PM#26

Firstly, I thank the people who have said they don't love permadeath but wish to see the game succeed no less.  I wish there were more like you all and fewer who were ragefully dismissive of the concept.

I think this is a worthy experiment of a game, and a well thought-out one at that.  I think the "MMORPG" tag carries so much baggage it almost guarantees aversion to new ideas.  It's got some of the weight of the RPG, a leering titan in its own right, plus every MMO since their invention and of course the mega-success of WoW.

Permadeath, open PvP, these features actually belie what is at it's core a game about cooperation.  All the settlement/reputation mechanics are really designed to provide the greatest safety to those who are good citizens.  If there's nothing else that makes ToA exciting to me, it's the fact that the game really wants you to work together, to build relationships.  There are scant few games that have that as a core of gameplay.

  liva98989

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/09
Posts: 220

 
OP  10/29/13 6:54:33 AM#27
Originally posted by coretex666

I quickly read the info on the kickstarter page and have to say that this game does look interesting.

Hope it gets funded.

Me too.


  rk1191

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 13

10/30/13 12:49:08 AM#28

I agree with the sentiments of the previous two posts.

 

If you aren't completely sold, yet still wish the game to succeed, even pledging the minimum amount goes a long way to helping it get publicity. Support doesn't have to equal $1,000.

  tinallie

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/12
Posts: 2

10/30/13 3:07:18 AM#29
I need most of those stretch goals with a burning passion.
  therdre

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/07
Posts: 16

11/01/13 7:04:12 AM#30
Everything outside permadeath looks great, I don't mind a harsh death penalty but permadeath just kills it for me.  If they were to change that I would help fund it on kickstarter in a heartbeat
  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 557

11/01/13 7:30:23 AM#31
Originally posted by therdre
Everything outside permadeath looks great, I don't mind a harsh death penalty but permadeath just kills it for me.  If they were to change that I would help fund it on kickstarter in a heartbeat

Same! I feel like perma-death is sort of going away. There is definitely still a niche market for it, but I don't think it's large enough to support a subscription-based game. 

 

Also, does perma-death mean that they dial down the difficulty of things like PvE content? Certainly it can't be as difficult as some content where death is assured. I just see perma-death as a way to further limit what people will do in a game. If they want to make it a social game where everyone hangs out in hub cities, then awesome! Because the whole crafting and innovation system sounds great. 

Crazkanuk

----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 715

Your tears make my gun work better.

11/01/13 7:57:12 AM#32


Originally posted by liva98989

Originally posted by cheeseheads

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by monochrome19 Why are people so scared of permadeath? It makes it exciting.
Why do you assume they are scared of it? I prefer Rocky Roads Ice Cream over Green Tea Ice Cream. That doesn't mean I am afraid of green tea; I just don't care for it.   
this 1000x.  just cause a person doesnt like what you like does not mean they are afraid or scared.   we all like different things just deal with it
Yea, but there are many people that ARE scared of permadeath, so deal with that. (He didn't say that every person going against permadeath are scared of it, he just said that there were a lot, and there are. 

So deal with that ):>!



Great way to promote your game, take an offensive stance towards people that are just expressing their opinions.

Most of the people I play with support perma-death and I am one of them, if implemented properly. You have to control griefers, and situations that will allow griefing. Other wise you are just wasting your time trying to get into the game as a new person. In my experience pvp is seldom implemented properly, and I have yet to see it in any type of open world, done properly.

Most games that tout 'hardcore' pvp mean: hard core gank fest, and we support killing lowbies over and again. My opinion of course, but this mentality attracts a certain type of player, and I prefer to not be around them. You seem to support that attitude, again, not the best way to bring a players base to the game you are advertising.

The other side of sports is, while I might give this game a go eventually, I am just sick and burned out on the whole fantasy setting right now.

So while the game may have potential, in my opinion (which only matters to me)I don't see this game going much farther than a niche. I could be wrong, but I would be hard pressed to care at this time.

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  Dyraele

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/03
Posts: 196

11/01/13 9:07:12 PM#33
I can understand the sentiment of not liking permadeath. I myself do not mind it since 100 lives seems like a lot to me. I have not died that many times in any MMO, at least yet. I know I didn't in EQ for 2 years or WoW for 1 year (when we had a lot of open PvP in the world around SS, etc.). Maybe I didn't take enough chances or engage in enough PvP in those games, I don't know. Anyway, by the time I get to 100 I might just be sick of my char anyway and want to play another one. Hopefully this game gets funded so I can see how long it takes me to get to 100.

AKA - Bruxail

  tom_gore

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1789

11/04/13 7:16:34 AM#34

10% funded with 18 days remaining, almost half way into the funding period.

If (and when) they don't meet the goal, I hope they either realize there aren't enough of those "hardcore PvP" players who are willing to support such project to make it viable, or find other sort of funding to polish their game/concept for a year or more before trying again.

 

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 655

11/04/13 9:29:34 PM#35

Let them re-launch the project without PermaDeath. Then they might get my support.

Harsh death penalty is fine, but I just can't support a game that would have me dump hours upon hours into it only to have me restart from scratch if I die.

  GimiZigi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 131

11/06/13 10:01:20 AM#36
Originally posted by superconducting

Let them re-launch the project without PermaDeath. Then they might get my support.

Harsh death penalty is fine, but I just can't support a game that would have me dump hours upon hours into it only to have me restart from scratch if I die.

If you look at it as having a level 85 character, die and start back at level 1 then this would be a valid argument. But in ToA, this is not entirely true because there are NO levels and the difference in your stats between starting at day 1 to month 12 is negligible.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1827

11/06/13 10:07:24 AM#37
Originally posted by monochrome19

Why are people so scared of permadeath? It makes it exciting.

If you've played any old school game you had a lot less than 100 lives, you only get 3.

Game looks good though, I'll definitely check it out.

It's highly unlikely due to fear, but rather a preference for gameplay that is neither irritating nor frustrating.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9944

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/06/13 10:29:20 AM#38


Originally posted by tom_gore
10% funded with 18 days remaining, almost half way into the funding period.

If (and when) they don't meet the goal, I hope they either realize there aren't enough of those "hardcore PvP" players who are willing to support such project to make it viable, or find other sort of funding to polish their game/concept for a year or more before trying again.

 




It doesn't seem likely that they'll make their goal, but it's not necessarily because of the type of game. Their Kickstarter page doesn't talk much about the developer, how much experience they have and how likely it is that they are capable of producing an actual game. The successful Kickstarters I've seen have been fronted by people who have experience in the industry and some sort of decent demo to get started. It's more like people are contributing to something that's already started rather than something that doesn't yet exist.

ToA probably just triggers warning bells in peoples' heads, even if they are fans of hard core sandbox games.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  GimiZigi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 131

11/06/13 12:09:56 PM#39
Originally posted by tom_gore

10% funded with 18 days remaining, almost half way into the funding period.

If (and when) they don't meet the goal, I hope they either realize there aren't enough of those "hardcore PvP" players who are willing to support such project to make it viable, or find other sort of funding to polish their game/concept for a year or more before trying again.

 

I disagree. There are plenty of hardcore mmorpg players out there and there are A LOT of people who are sick and tired of the BS hand-holding that is the current mmo-market. The problem we see with ToA is publicity. Not enough people know about it and the people who come across the kickstarter page aren't impressed with what they see. There isn't enough of the game made to really show it simply because THAT'S what the kickstarter money is for.

We can talk about how they went about this wrong but as for the market/need, it's definitely there.

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