To the OP.

I think games and cultures change to what the market will bear. That said I think there are still games where you can do things that matter. I think one thing that helps some "OLD-TIMERS" like myself is that we started with pen and paper RPG's. I take my time to level up in every game I play. I put myself into the shoes of my character and write background for him and use the game to enhance that. I use the characters I play in MMO's for NPC in my Tabletop group.

Currently I LOTRO. I LOVE the world design and exploring every single inch of it has been amazing. I have been playing it since Beta and still haven't maxed out a single Character. Being a fan of Dwarven Characters, I have hand mapped every nook and Cranny in Moria. I have finished Mirkwood as well.(BTW those maps are GREAT to use in tabletop.) I don't think it is how much designs have changed for me as it is how many awesome worlds I have to explore. Most people would think I am crazy but my wife and I like this style of play.

Originally posted by Elsabolts

Originally posted by Ravensworth

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Ravensworth

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by kruler

Eve PC only and a tad niche

Haha what? It's got more subs than any other western MMO other than WoW.

 Not even close to other Western MMO's. Rifts is still far ahead and if you include Guild Wars 2(Not a sub min you I know) you are even farther off. EVE is a great game that continues to expand and improve. Dust 514 is not helping.

EvE has about half a million subs, I thought Rift was running at about 250k or so?

I stand corrected if that is correct. I doubt it though as EVE cannot handle more than 100k logged in at any one time. However you figures are probably more recent than mine and if so I apoloigize.  BUT EVE is much more of a international MMO than most IMHO with a large number of players in Russia and former Eastern Bloc nations.

 

If EvE or CCP was so secure in there future they would not be looking at a console format. I believe it is going to go to F2P with I Win Shops.

I do not think it is going F2P. It has done nothing but grow or stay steady in subs. A game that is growing is not likely to go F2P anytime soon.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Ravensworth

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by kruler

Eve PC only and a tad niche

Haha what? It's got more subs than any other western MMO other than WoW.

 Not even close to other Western MMO's. Rifts is still far ahead and if you include Guild Wars 2(Not a sub min you I know) you are even farther off. EVE is a great game that continues to expand and improve. Dust 514 is not helping.

EvE has about half a million subs, I thought Rift was running at about 250k or so?

I stand corrected if that is correct. I doubt it though as EVE cannot handle more than 100k logged in at any one time. However you figures are probably more recent than mine and if so I apoloigize.  BUT EVE is much more of a international MMO than most IMHO with a large number of players in Russia and former Eastern Bloc nations.

Oh, one more thing. I want Dust 514 to be very successful as it will be good for the Overall EVE game. Just one more element of things that must be dealt with. I hope it does really well. I just don't think it will. I am not even demanding a PC version but an XBOX version would be nice. I think by going exclusive on PS3 CCP have hurt their sales.

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Ravensworth

Originally posted by Hodo

Originally posted by COORS

Dust was a bad idea to begin with. It's hard to fathom how high level executives at CCP could have even for a second thought this was a valid project.

The company should have worked on plans to bring the Eve universe down to the planet level, not this insignificant console shooter that practically no one on the planet cares about.

Bad idea. Bad waste of company resources. This will not end well.

Tell me how it was a bad idea?

Lets look at this from a CEO point of view.

-Single system requirments that EVERY system on the market matches, the PS3. 

-Single system OS that all match, PS3 OS.

-Single licenseing agency, Sony.

-No need to draw players away from our already popular PC based MMO Eve.

-Attempt to draw in players who do not have access to PCs, or prefer FPS on console (yes they do exist).

 

Now lets look at the first choice in more depth.

Single system specs, no need to program the game for low end system, or for someone running Linux, or on a computer built yesterday by Skynet.   Its a simple idea, one OS, one system, no need to worry much about optimizing on every concievable computer in history.

 

So tell me again why this is a bad idea?

This was a bad idea because...Single console distribution is narrow minded in a game with a HUGE global player base. The Xbox accounts for at LEAST 35% of consoles and is a MICROSOFT console. XBOX live > PS3 network by far.

The concept of bringing in console gamers was okay but TBH many EVE players I have talked to are not excited by Dust 514. If CCP cannot get there existing player base excited about interacting with the console players and promoting the game then it is doomed to die a horrible death. 

1 Capsuleers opiinion.

 

Wikipedia states total worldwide XBox360 sales are 67m and PS3 sales are 64m. I own neither so am not invested in the result. If your stats include the old Xbox then the percentage does not conversely include the PS2 which is the Sony XBox equivalent.

 You are backing me up here? because at 35% I was including Wii sales and being Generous.

I did not include the original XBOX in my figures hence no PS2 figures. (PS2>XBOX IMHO)

My point, and others have made it, is "I am not buying a PS3 to play one game, that may or may not really impact my EVE play." At this point how much it will matter if you have Dust 514 players occupying planets and moons for you and will affect your EVE corp is unknown and will be unknown until the game launches. If it "TANKS" then the answer will be - not much!

If it does well. I would bet there are people on EVE who will HIRE people to play Dust 514 for them so they can conquer planets. EVE is a lifestyle not a game. The truly powerful in EVE spend a great deal of time in game because it requires that of leaders of large alliance.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by kruler

Eve PC only and a tad niche

Haha what? It's got more subs than any other western MMO other than WoW.

 Not even close to other Western MMO's. Rifts is still far ahead and if you include Guild Wars 2(Not a sub min you I know) you are even farther off. EVE is a great game that continues to expand and improve. Dust 514 is not helping.

Originally posted by Hodo

Originally posted by COORS

Dust was a bad idea to begin with. It's hard to fathom how high level executives at CCP could have even for a second thought this was a valid project.

The company should have worked on plans to bring the Eve universe down to the planet level, not this insignificant console shooter that practically no one on the planet cares about.

Bad idea. Bad waste of company resources. This will not end well.

Tell me how it was a bad idea?

Lets look at this from a CEO point of view.

-Single system requirments that EVERY system on the market matches, the PS3. 

-Single system OS that all match, PS3 OS.

-Single licenseing agency, Sony.

-No need to draw players away from our already popular PC based MMO Eve.

-Attempt to draw in players who do not have access to PCs, or prefer FPS on console (yes they do exist).

 

Now lets look at the first choice in more depth.

Single system specs, no need to program the game for low end system, or for someone running Linux, or on a computer built yesterday by Skynet.   Its a simple idea, one OS, one system, no need to worry much about optimizing on every concievable computer in history.

 

So tell me again why this is a bad idea?

This was a bad idea because...Single console distribution is narrow minded in a game with a HUGE global player base. The Xbox accounts for at LEAST 35% of consoles and is a MICROSOFT console. XBOX live > PS3 network by far.

The concept of bringing in console gamers was okay but TBH many EVE players I have talked to are not excited by Dust 514. If CCP cannot get there existing player base excited about interacting with the console players and promoting the game then it is doomed to die a horrible death. 

1 Capsuleers opiinion.

Originally posted by Ethos86

A.I don't understand how some people always think that because these numbers only show retail boxes, the numbers would be that much better for the digital sales.

B. Most other games in that list also have digital sales and it's not because it's an MMO that the % retail vs digital is that much different. If anything, who would really want to buy SW:ToR digital when everybody hates Origin (SW:ToR is not available on Steam) and want to avoid it at all cost...

Battlefield 3, aslo an EA game who's also available on Origin digital download is still peaking in that sales list and it's released 25 October (and it had massive pre-orders which broke records). That's almost 2 months before SW:ToR. It's been out for 5x longer than SW:ToR and it's on the 3rd spot as opposed to SW:ToR's 38th spot.

C. Skyrim for example, who was released 1,5 months ago is still on the 8th place in the same list and that game is even available on Steam. As we all know, Steam is a much more popular platform for digital download than Origin thus if it would really be digital downloads hurting the retail sales... then Skyrim would have a bigger loss in retail numbers than SW:ToR has.

In other words, the arguments that SW:ToR is low in retail sales list because of digital sales or because of preorders, are nothing more than myths.

D. What should alarm people is the trend which clearly shows form charts like this. The SW:ToR hype is dying very very fast if you ask me. Unlike Skyrim who created several meme's since it's release and where you still hear things like "omg if you havn't played this game already, you must check it out for sure".

I still play SW:ToR btw, I had 90 days of sub and I started playing the 20th december. I enjoy it and played it for about 45 hours in less than 2 weeks. I played Skyrim too, something like 55 hours. While I think I'll eventually spend more time on SW:ToR I do think it won't leave such a mark on the Game scene as Skyrim did. Every minute I played Skyrim felt special and I had plenty of awesome moments where I was really impressed by the game. I couldn't stop talking about it to my friends like... GO AND PLAY THIS F*ING GAME OR I WILL NEVER EVER LISTEN TO YOU AGAIN IF YOU TALK ABOUT ANY GAME TO ME WITHOUT HAVING EXPERIENCED SKYRIM I'm not having that with SW:ToR bc while I enjoy the entertainment it gives me for my money, it's not leaving that mark on me...

E. What might hurt SW:ToR long term sales is the word of mouth positive feedback... or the lack thereof...

- Skyrim intrigued me in it's first hour... other people felt the same = mouth to mouth promotion = good continued sales

- SW:ToR entertains me but doesn't stunn me with awesomeness = big hype dying fast after release = faster sale drop after preorder and initial sales

 

Ow yeah, by the way. I bought SW:ToR for 39 euro in retail store (Saturn, Media Markt). Online digital download costs 50 euro. Do you guys really think they sell so much digital versions of this game? That's being very delusional if you ask me...

Digital download being 11 euro's more expensive than having a boxed retail version...

 

Edit:

Either the list isn't correct (like the guy below me suggests), or those numbers show a very bad future for SW:ToR and everyone believing that it's bc of digital sales should open their fanboy-eyes and realised other games in those charts also have digital sales.

A. I think that depends on where you live. In the US many people buy MMO's Digitally and some are only available that way.

B. Disagree here. I hate steam and have alot of friends that do as well. Battlefield 3 is a really bad comparison as it is a different type of game, is available on many different platforms, and has a MUCH larger marketing budget than SW: TOR.

C.See above. Console games have a longer shelf life than PC games and again Skyrim is not available for only the PC market. Console games also tend to attract a younger Demographic that includes Pre-teens and young Teens who often get those games as gifts. This leads to, as mentioned, a longer shelf life.

D. Predicting the death of a game that is less than 2 weeks old and has received rave reviews not only from the press but from players is a little short sighted. I make no prediction as it is too early to tell.

E. I think here we agree as word of mouth will influence people playing other MMO's. I do not play SW:TOR but many people in my guild have left the game I do play or are playing it part time. So far the only world of mouth I have heard sounds almost as if SW:TOR as turned it's players into raving Fanboys. This comes from players that usually trash other MMO's. I still won't play it as I am not a big fan of the Sci-Fi MMO's

Last I think it was INCREDIBLY poor judgement of the editors to Post the title of this thread as they have, as has been pointed, out not done their research. >.<