Originally posted by ShadowZERO

 

Originally posted by Drolletje

Grind is a purely subjective term: when the player stops having fun, that's where the grind starts. One player can think killing 10 of the same mobs is a grind, while a very motivated player could kill 1000 of these mobs.

Developers have invented the grind because they simply can't produce new contents at the speed the gamers consume it. The grind is needed to keep the players happy and playing and paying. The grind is a necessary evil.

I think this is what I was looking for.  There is no real definition because "grind" is more a state of mind than any 1 thing.  People toss out the term "grind" because they feel a task in a certain game has become boring and repetative.

 

So, let my pose a question based on this.  The common thing I think people refer to in specifc games as grind are those things the feel they have to do to become powerful.  Chasing after more levels and loot are the 2 big ones.

Remove all things in the game that you improve to increase your characters power.  Skills, Gear, Levels... all of them.

How many on these forums would play such a game?

I would be all in for such a game. The only question is: how long will we keep playing this game? If there is absolutely no grind, how long will it be 'till we all are 'been there, done that' and quit the game?

One way I see to attain the huge amount of new content needed for such a game, is allowing the players to create their own quests, mobs, dungeons and locations. User-created content is generally lower in quality but I'd rather experience some new content a fellow player created than going through the same developer-created content again.

Grind is a purely subjective term: when the player stops having fun, that's where the grind starts. One player can think killing 10 of the same mobs is a grind, while a very motivated player could kill 1000 of these mobs.

Developers have invented the grind because they simply can't produce new contents at the speed the gamers consume it. The grind is needed to keep the players happy and playing and paying. The grind is a necessary evil.

I've got some friends that have never played a tabletop rpg. In fact, I haven't either. Still, that's exactly what I want to do. Since this is my idea, I guess I'll be the dungeon master and I'll buy the rulebook(s). The problem is I don't know which game. I know dungeons&dragons ofcourse, but I've also heard of other games like GURPS. I want a game with a basic ruleset that isn't too complex. I want a game where there are lots of choices and premade content (since I've no experience as a DM). I'm prepared to buy one or two rulebooks and a set of dice, but not tons of books or other material that are required to play.

I know that this site is actually only for mmo's, but I feel there are a lot of veterans out here and I hope one of you can recommend us a good rpg. I would also appreciate some tips how to be a good dm

Thanks for all input,

Drolletje

Thank you for the answer. I guess I'll wait until there is a new owner of this game. I hope to see you all  in atys when this mess is finally over.

Are you saying that it is still possible to create a new account that can go to mainland? I thought it wasn't possible anymore to upgrade to full account since october last year ...

I'm in a similar situation. I also played this game back in beta, but, yeh WoW, you know :). I recently started playing a bit on the trial and liked it. But I stopped when I heard there was no way for new players to get off trial isle (according to a post on the official forums). If someone can confirm it is still possible to play the full game if you buy the box at gogamer.com, I'll be happy to buy it to play this great game.

Heh, I'm bored too. I've been able to resist reactivating my wow account for quite some time now, but i don't know for how much longer. I've never played L2 because i heard it was very grindy. TBH, I want something new, like some games in development promise (WAR, tCoS, AoC, ..). But since they're still in development,  that still leaves me bored.

The Chronicles of Spellborn (coming Q1 next year) promises to have a very good quest-driven storyline. You could check it out, their world was orginally intended for a tabletop rpg and it has a really cool and unique atmosphere.

I like the idea that all your abilities with cooldown actually start their cooldown when combat starts. This would certainly make fights longer as you can't use the more powerful skills at the beginning. The longer the battle lasts, the more powerful skills are unlocked, building tension for the climax where one player kills the other. Combat would then be almost like a good story. There could even be a system where you have to choose what cooldowns you want to 'charge', so you have to choose whether you want some mediocre abilities fast, or you want to wait for a really powerful skill. This would give a similar feeling to the rush vs. boom tactics in rts games (yes i am an rts fan, too)