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All Posts by Nifa

All Posts by Nifa

17 Pages First « 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 »
322 posts found
Originally posted by Fishermage
Originally posted by MarleVVLL
Originally posted by upallnight
Originally posted by MarleVVLL

That website has several errors when it tries to refer to Christianity, if anyone was wondering.

 

There are several brands of Christianity.

Like for instance, most people who come to my Christian church are shocked at how welcoming we are.  I guess they're used to evangelicals.

 

I was referring to Biblical Christianity, not the western expression, which, by the way, is nearly entirely 100% wrong.

 

According to YOUR personal interpretation of scripture, of course.

I tend to agree with MarleVVLL in that Christianity, as the west understands it, is frequently not necessarily "Christianity" (the word "Christian" meaning, literally, "little Christ") as it was originally practiced.

The Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek (rather than the English translations we are accustomed to) give a pretty clear indication of that, but one would actually have to be able to read and understand those languages (which I can) in order to see that.

Still, without getting into a religious debate (on a forum, debate generally means "dramatic argument" ;P), I am of the opinion that a spiritual belief which is practiced is not a "religion" but a way of life, a relationship with the object of worship which is borne out in the actions of the professed "believer."  Proof is less in the hermaneutical (the interpretation of Scripture, whether that Scripture be Biblical or Koranic or the Tao Teh Ching or any other religious text) than in the professed believer's actions and way of life...so "proof" is really only tangible to those who know the believer personally - not on a message board.

As a disclaimer, all of the above is strictly my opinion - I do not represent that it is the opinion of the majority of those who call themselves "Christian" or believers/followers/adherents of any other faith or religion.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

The person that brings up being able to solo through a game may very well be someone who would otherwise enjoy traveling with others if he was being added because he was a fellow player and not just some class whose participation (or not) in the quest was dictate solely by one button he pressed at character creation time.

 

Quite possibly the single best post I have seen in more than two years on any gaming forum.

The quoted portion describes exactly why I often solo, even in MMOs:  for my own part, I recognize that the tank, healer, village idiot - you name it - is a real, live, actual person sitting at a keyboard, just trying to have a little fun.  Besides the fact that, if you try talking to the person (not the class whose help you require to get through a quest before you drop group and go off to do something else), you might actually find yourself enjoying the company and making a friend... ;)

Originally posted by Ekibiogami
Originally posted by Nifa

1. Orthodox Quaker - Religious Society of Friends (100%)
2. Mainline - Conservative Christian Protestant (83%)
3. Eastern Orthodox (79%)
4. Roman Catholic (79%)
5. Mainline - Liberal Christian Protestants (77%)

 

...anyone know what the hell a Quaker or Eastern Orthodox is?


 

And Deprive you of the fun of Wiki... Never ;p

Gah!  Make me actually read and educate myself?!  You're no fun! ;p

But according to Wiki, all 5 in the list are far too religious for my tastes. ;)

1. Orthodox Quaker - Religious Society of Friends (100%)
2. Mainline - Conservative Christian Protestant (83%)
3. Eastern Orthodox (79%)
4. Roman Catholic (79%)
5. Mainline - Liberal Christian Protestants (77%)

 

...anyone know what the hell a Quaker or Eastern Orthodox is?

Originally posted by Elikal

Ok right ahead: I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique.

Here comes the thesis first: Bioware is either deceiting themselves about what a success SWTOR can be, OR they are deceiving us about the nature of the game.

 


Now to the analysis. I will try to keep it a brief as possible. I hope I dont create loopholes by shortage, but I may add to it, if some parts are unclear.

I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1.


* Seems that the Game has PvE Mode and a PvP Mode - SifiWire
* The interface seems standardised. Hot keys on a UI Bar. - 1UP
* The UI Can be customised!- StarWarsMMO
* There is mention of a Player Driven Economy in the review from Joystiq.
* No grinding - Destructoid review.
* 8 Classes confirmed (During Gamespot Interview)
* They are looking into separate servers for PvP, RP etc as an option. - StarWarsMMO
* They are trying to make TOR available to People with a mix of PC quality Old and New- StarWarsMMO
* PvP, Auction House, Raiding and an Economy all confirmed on video by a Dev: ZAM
* Localised instancing - When getting/handing in a quest you are the only one at NPC - MMOGAMER


Characters:

* Characters maybe planet locked for a period based on gameplay mechanics (BH needs to get a Hutts help to get off the planet, Smuggler has no ship (Its been stolen)
* Bounty Hunters as well as ranged can do hand to hand combat plus dirty tricks - SifiWire
* Character customization
* Player Characters have some interesting moves.. Smuggler (knee NPC in nuts and shoot them in the head)
* Mixed Party Quests, If a Smuggler and Jedi group to go do the Smuggler quest line there will be quests for the Jedi to do while helping Smuggler - MMOGAmer
* There is an END to each classes Story with new content to extend each story- MMOGamer
* The more Dark/Light Side you go you gain access to more abilities that lean towards that calling that going the other way denies you. - GameSutra


Combat:

* No Auto Attack - Mentioned in Multiple Reviews
* Combat is fast paced (Almost Console Speed) - TenTonHammer
* Enemies fall fast and come quick, and the pace of action is consistent. - EuroGamer
* Cooldowns on the skills were very short, and the skills themselves were swift, immediate - EuroGamer
* Special moves seem to require points similar to Rogue in WoW. (If you are not sure what I mean read further in this post, its explained)
* There is mention of the Sith soaking up damage and causing agro. Possible hint to a Tanking class?
* While seeing the Combat in the Flaspoint its seemed very like Battlefront with 10 vs 2 combat - StarWarsMMO Demo
* When engaging NPCs the NPC switched from Ranged to Melee as the Players got closer - StarWarsMMO Demo


Flashpoints/Loot:

* Loot seems to be based on Light/Darkside as well as class.
* End Game Content like Raiding is available if players do not want to re roll - MMOGamer
* Looting is the standard Loot types in other MMOs - StarWarsMMO
* Choices in Flashpoints can change the course of the instance. Kill a NPC and 'A' happens.. do not kill and 'B' happens. - Mentioned in Multiple Reviews
* Flashpoints can be done solo or grouped.
* Group decisions in Flashpoints (Its mentioned that BW are still working on how to apply LS/DS points depending on outcome).
* PvP loot mentioned as loot in the gamespot Smuggler interview.
* Loot sets also seem to be in game, possible mutliple PvP sets mentioned - Gamespot Smuggler
* The Group decisions seem to work like the LOTRO Combo Combat function, you get little time to decide what you want to do. A selection of outcomes appear and you have to decide fast.
* Multiple different outfits per class- TenTonHammer (watch vid)

II.) They have hinted every class has its planet. With the map circling around we have 16 planets, that makes 8 class bound planet. So 50% granted solo game. Or at best intra-class co-op. Tho why should you when its "your class story". Not waterproof, but a measure of balance.

General:
* The Majority of the Game can be done without Any help from anyone else - StarWarsMMO Demo
* 8 Classes confirmed (During Gamespot Interview)
* They are looking into seperate servers for PvP, RP etc as an option. - StarWarsMMO
* PvP, Auction House, Raiding and an Economy all confirmed on video by a Dev: ZAM
* Localised instancing - When getting/handing in a quest you are the only one at NPC - MMOGAMER


Characters:

* Characters maybe planet locked for a period based on gameplay mechanics (BH needs to get a Hutts help to get off the planet, Smuggler has no ship (Its been stolen)
* Bounty Hunters start on Hutta - Mentioned in Multiple Reviews
* Bounty Hunters Story Arc is called 'The Great Hunt' - SifiWire
* Smuggler starts on Ord Mantell - Mentioned in Multiple Reviews
* Mixed Party Quests, If a Smuggler and Jedi group to go do the Smuggler quest line there will be quests for the Jedi to do while helping Smuggler - MMOGAmer


Combat:

* There is mention of the Sith soaking up damage and causing agro. Possible hint to a Tanking class?


Flashpoints/Loot:
* End Game Content like Raiding is available if players do not want to re roll - MMOGamer
* Flashpoints can be done solo or grouped.
* Group decisions in Flashpoints (Its mentioned that BW are still working on how to apply LS/DS points depending on outcome).
* The Group decisions seem to work like the LOTRO Combo Combat function, you get little time to decide what you want to do. A selection of outcomes appear and you have to decide fast.

 

III.) We know we have combat companions, and we know Bioware said, the game can be entirely soloed. Fact! Now what is crystal clear to me: the easier quests are, the more soloable, the less grouping happens. Grouping is what happens when people need to group. Now sure the rise of soloing can be seen. But the fact is, most people who can solo will solo. With NPC companion. Now the life-force of any MMO is it's community. Communites form through grouping for a large part. By shared experiences. But from my POV, when everything CAN be soloed, most WILL solo it. Now if you are busy, busy with your story, why share it, when a NPC does it? Communities are formed by and large through the "hunting party experience", when a team overcomes an obstacle a single person could not. The rise of solo-friendlyness has so far seriously damaged the community spirit in MMOs.


General:


* The Majority of the Game can be done without Any help from anyone else - StarWarsMMO Demo
* Localised instancing - When getting/handing in a quest you are the only one at NPC - MMOGAMER


Characters:
* Mixed Party Quests, If a Smuggler and Jedi group to go do the Smuggler quest line there will be quests for the Jedi to do while helping Smuggler - MMOGAmer


Combat:
* There is mention of the Sith soaking up damage and causing agro. Possible hint to a Tanking class?


Flashpoints/Loot:
* End Game Content like Raiding is available if players do not want to re roll - MMOGamer
* Choices in Flashpoints can change the course of the instance. Kill a NPC and 'A' happens.. do not kill and 'B' happens. - Mentioned in Multiple Reviews
* Flashpoints can be done solo or grouped.
* Group decisions in Flashpoints (Its mentioned that BW are still working on how to apply LS/DS points depending on outcome).
* The Group decisions seem to work like the LOTRO Combo Combat function, you get little time to decide what you want to do. A selection of outcomes appear and you have to decide fast.

 

IV.) Now no matter how good your stories are, I just dont see it that a decend number of players stays in a MMO for more than 3-4 months. I just do not see it. Taking the not small playtime per day of the average MMO gamer, I am sure most will be through the story 2 times by then at LEAST. I am sorry if I have to burst your bubble, but a game merely driven by story wont hold people alone a long time. 6 months is the max. time.


General:
* Seems that the Game has PvE Mode and a PvP Mode - SifiWire
* BioWare is currently indicating that it will be unwilling to let players skip or read dialogue scenes - EuroGamer
* There is mention of a Player Driven Economy in the review from Joystiq.
* They are looking into seperate servers for PvP, RP etc as an option. - StarWarsMMO
* They are trying to make TOR available to People with a mix of PC quality Old and New- StarWarsMMO
* PvP, Auction House, Raiding and an Economy all confirmed on video by a Dev: ZAM


Characters:

* Characters maybe planet locked for a period based on gameplay mechanics (BH needs to get a Hutts help to get off the planet, Smuggler has no ship (Its been stolen)
* Mixed Party Quests, If a Smuggler and Jedi group to go do the Smuggler quest line there will be quests for the Jedi to do while helping Smuggler - MMOGAmer
* There is an END to each classes Story with new content to extend each story- MMOGamer


Combat:
* Combat is fast paced (Almost Console Speed) - TenTonHammer
* Enemies fall fast and come quick, and the pace of action is consistent. - EuroGamer
* Cooldowns on the skills were very short, and the skills themselves were swift, immediate - EuroGamer
* Combat seems to be more fluid and dynamic (not too sure what they were refering to by maybe queuing moves?)
* There is mention of the Sith soaking up damage and causing agro. Possible hint to a Tanking class?


Flashpoints/Loot:
* End Game Content like Raiding is available if players do not want to re roll - MMOGamer
* Choices in Flashpoints can change the course of the instance. Kill a NPC and 'A' happens.. do not kill and 'B' happens. - Mentioned in Multiple Reviews
* Flashpoints can be done solo or grouped.
* Group decisions in Flashpoints (Its mentioned that BW are still working on how to apply LS/DS points depending on outcome).
* PvP loot mentioned as loot in the gamespot Smuggler interview.
* Loot sets also seem to be in game, possible mutliple PvP sets mentioned - Gamespot Smuggler
* The Group decisions seem to work like the LOTRO Combo Combat function, you get little time to decide what you want to do. A selection of outcomes appear and you have to decide fast.

 

V.) The ONLY thing proven to keep gamers a longer time, is repetitive tasks, like it or not. Just going out hunting stuff. (Not to speak of the fact that many feel "mindless grinding" as something relaxing, actually!) You just would have to create 100+ planets with story to equal the play-time amount a MMO like WOW or EQ2 or GW can muster by grind. Grind, meaning "not heroic, simple, repetitive task", which is not fitting into the category of "heroic story". You know, the usual type of MMO quests.


General:
* Seems that the Game has PvE Mode and a PvP Mode - SifiWire
* The Majority of the Game can be done without Any help from anyone else - StarWarsMMO Demo
* There is mention of a Player Driven Economy in the review from Joystiq.
* No grinding - Destructoid review.
* They are looking into seperate servers for PvP, RP etc as an option. - StarWarsMMO
* PvP, Auction House, Raiding and an Economy all confirmed on video by a Dev: ZAM


Combat:

* No Auto Attack - Mentioned in Multiple Reviews
* Combat is fast paced (Almost Console Speed) - TenTonHammer
* Enemies fall fast and come quick, and the pace of action is consistent. - EuroGamer
* Cooldowns on the skills were very short, and the skills themselves were swift, immediate - EuroGamer


Flashpoints/Loot:
* End Game Content like Raiding is available if players do not want to re roll - MMOGamer
* Choices in Flashpoints can change the course of the instance. Kill a NPC and 'A' happens.. do not kill and 'B' happens. - Mentioned in Multiple Reviews
* Flashpoints can be done solo or grouped.
* Group decisions in Flashpoints (Its mentioned that BW are still working on how to apply LS/DS points depending on outcome).
* PvP loot mentioned as loot in the gamespot Smuggler interview.
* Loot sets also seem to be in game, possible mutliple PvP sets mentioned - Gamespot Smuggler


 


Now the bottom line and conclusion is: when EA paid a hefty sum for Bioware, they sure expected a MMO with a monthly fee keeping gamers a LONG time, for in no other realistic way Bioware would be worth so much money. That would suggest SWTOR DOES HAVE some long lasting game qualities, which would clearly say, that story is just "one part among many others", which also would mean we have been deceived about SWTOR being "all heroic". There WOULD be the proverbial "20 rats" to kill. The trash mobs, the fedex quests, the faction grind - you name it - everything any normal MMO has. Truth be told, I personally am HOPING this is so. The other way would be, Bioware deceives itself, when they think a game with story alone has the weight to keep gamers for a longer period of time, no matter how interesting you can make a story. it would NEVER ever work. MMO gamers are used to some things, and only some things are known to create communities. And only MMOs with communities can survive a longer time.


So my worst fear ironically is Bioware would be honest. What I fear is, that everything is heroic story, people play it with one or two classes through and then be done. What that LucasArts guy hinted, that there would be a vast untapped potential of single player gamers who never played a MMO so far, hints this may indeed be their hope, and I just implore them to NOT believe that! The MMO market is not expanded into single player gamers anymore! Period. I have no proof for this last assumption, but my strongest feeling of truth. A MMo gamer is a kind of person, a lifestyle, and the WOW model tapped what was left by mechanics we dont need to discuss, but which worked, apparently.


I am sorry for the long text and complex thought. I know, it may be difficult to follow, and I hope you answer civil and fair. It is a theory, nothing more, but I fear when they are serious with their idea that EVERYTHING is heroic, and can be soloed, it would no bode well. I mean it could still be a very good game. Thats not the point. But in no way in hell it will bring back that sort of money EA paid nor would that form a years lasting community in the game.

 

So, challange my analysis.


 

 

I have posted a list of things that we do know to be true about this game at this point in time.  Some of the things that we know due to the various reviews at E3 (a gameplay demo was available in order for gaming publications to play and make an assessment) do agree with points that you have brought up.  Many of the things that we do know about the game at this point in time do not mesh with your analysis.

I suspect that anything found in the gameplay demo may be subject to change prior to launch, but as it stands right now, it looks like it has all or most of the things one would expect from an MMO, plus some additional things that may make it interesting.

 

Originally posted by Dynamo112

Can you prove the game is NOT whole story?

No, because bioware has made it very clear the 'online game' main focus is STORYYYY.

Actually, if you look at the youtube footage of BioWare's E3 presentation, it's made clear that the game will have all the "regular MMO trimmings."  From what they seem to be saying, they are simply adding one more element - an element that most folks have come to expect from both BioWare and the Star Wars IP (well, except for SWG and JarJar) - a good story.

I still fail to see what is wrong with having a compelling story along with exploration, PvE, PvP, crafting... (you know, those "regular MMO trimmings" that have been mentioned.)

Developing a good story (as opposed to some half-assed text tossed into a quest box as an afterthought) does take more time and effort, generally speaking, than developing gameplay mechanics.  Since the game is not out of development yet - in fact, it's not even in alpha, let alone beta - I cannot wrap my head around what, exactly, anyone is upset about...except the idea that, in some people's opinions (including BioWare's, apparently), having a decent story is equally as important as anything else.

Oh well.  To each his/her own.  /shrug

Sadly, they may do just that...for which I apologize in advance.  :(

 

Still, the fact that 11000 people have voted, and nearly 60% of those of us who intend to buy the game (I am a huge Star Wars nerd, I openly admit that) think that story is the aspect of the game they are most interested in is indeed a very telling point - one that completely contradicts the OP's point that "nobody gives a crap about story."

There's a poll on the SW: ToR boards right now where BioWare has asked members of that community what aspects of MMOs they are most interested in.  As of about quarter after eight CST tonight, 17 Jun 2009, the results are as follows (in order of ranked importance for your convenience):

Story: 58.55%

Exploring: 50.46%

PvE: 49.83%

PvP: 44.93%

Community:  39.99%

Questing: 39.59%

Roleplaying: 33.88%

Crafting:  31.84%

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=18374


Why are devs opposed to complex crafting?

Because complex crafting actually requires work, and most companies that produce MMOs don't wish to spend the money/time on the necessary development.

I have yet to find a crafting system that can even come close to comparing with SWG.  In fact, for a long time, crafting was the only reason I would log in to SWG - I loved the complexity of it.  If there was a game out there that had a crafting system even half as complex as the crafting system in SWG, my inner number-cruncher would be deliriously happy.

Originally posted by Thrakk

"Sarah Palin is a "premillenial dispensationalist" - in other words, someone who believes that there is no point in protecting and preserving the natural world, since the end of days will soon be upon us." -Christopher Hitchens

 

she doesn't deserve an apology

What does this:

"Sarah Palin is a "premillenial dispensationalist"

Have to do with this:

"she doesn't deserve an apology"

 

According to this logic, if I think Geraldine Ferraro's (the Democratic Vice-Presidential nominee in 1984 who lost the election) religious beliefs (she's a Roman Catholic) are idiotic, then that makes it okay for Dennis Miller to make a joke about her teenaged family members (granted, an 18 year old girl, while still technically a teenager, is a legal adult) having intercourse with a man in his mid-thirties?

While I share the opinion that Letterman was out of line, I would no more demand an apology from him than I would from Wanda Sykes (for her jokes about Rush Limbaugh) or David Feherty (for his joke about House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid).  The First Amendment protects even that speech which I personally find offensive, and if what I hear offends me, then I do not have to listen.

 

Originally posted by ScoutMastr


 I'm sure there are others in this thread, but I just want to thank you for a reasonable response to the topic and issues raised. I get so sick of seeing people attacked for hating/loving something about MMO's.

Seriously guys, he was ranting because Bioware has been promoting "the story" so much he's sick of it...why? because he doesn't care about the story as much as other aspects of MMORPG's. There are a lot of people that would agree with him and a lot that will disagree. Discuss the topic if you will, but please leave out the "stfu, gtfo, don't buy it," and etc...

Speaking only for myself, if the OP had chosen to pursue a path of "I would like to know more about the other aspects of this game besides the story; let's have a reasonable discussion about that," I would have been happy to have such a discussion.  However, the OP came across in a manner which indicates that his preference is the only one that matters.

Certainly, there will be those who agree with the OP and those who disagree.  Personally, I place a high value on "the story," which is why I enjoy playing LoTRO.  I do not expect that everyone will place the same value on various aspects of gameplay that I do (For instance, I could give a rip about PvP - my interests lie primarily in graphics quality, actual gameplay mechanics, the story, and the crafting), but I am very much inclined to tell someone to eff off when they present themselves in a manner that indicates that they have absolutely no respect for the idea that everyone places different value on different aspects of the game.

I actually hope that the OP and others who do not place the same value on the story that I do will at least give the game a try.  It's quite possible that they - and I - will not like the game when it is released.  But the fact is that right now, we really do not have enough information about this game to start "ranting" about anything.  The game is still in development and will be for some time.  In my admittedly limited experience with MMOGs (I have only been playing MMOs for about 5 or 6 years.  Compared to many folks who post here on this site, that's not very much at all.), the best way to express one's concerns while a game is still in development (or even after it launches, to be honest) is to become a member of that game's community and calmly and rationally explain your position on that game's community forums.

While the saying goes "you can get more with a kind word and a two by four than you can with just a kind word," sometimes the two by four really is not necessary. ;)

 

 

EDITED: Bloody laptop keyboards.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Ouch. Personally I didn't see anything wrong with the OP. As long as there is puncuation and some breaks in sentences I'm fine with it. It's the ones who post long rants with no breaks that annoy me.

Sorry, I forgot to remove the portion of the OP that Mr. Eyebleeding Font was referring to.  :(

I tend to ignore typos, spelling and grammar on forums for the reasons I stated earlier...at least until some self-appointed savior of the English language comes along and rants at some poor bloke for improper grammar when they haven't got a grasp on grammar, sentence structure, and word usage themselves. ;)

Originally posted by mantii
Originally posted by Elikal

Ok right ahead: I am very serious with this, and I dont intend to provoke you, but this is the result of weeks and months of thinking and following news and info, and I would really be interested in your (thoughtful) critique.

Here comes the thesis first: Bioware is either deceiting themselves about what a success SWTOR can be, OR they are deceiving us about the nature of the game.

 


Now to the analysis. I will try to keep it a brief as possible. I hope I dont create loopholes by shortage, but I may add to it, if some parts are unclear.

I.) Bioware, EA and LucasArts always emphasize "story". In fact we have not heard of a single gameplay sphere any detail other than that. There is that suspicious fact we hear NO other "usually expected" detail whatsoever, now for a long time. Which is no argument in itself, yes, just a hint. The central point here is: they always emphasized, that ALL of SWTOR is story driven. ALL is heroic and there is NO usual grind, no "un-heroic" battle like "kill 20 rats". Point 1.



I read about this far. The main reason I only read this far is because reading your sentences is like having trying to piece together a puzzle. I have to fill in words in spots where there should be words. I have to assume sometimes that you meant to put a word here or there, or that you meant to spell this a word correctly. Spelling and grammar are is important because it they helps the people you are talking to understand exactly what you mean. If you had everything spelled correctly in this, I would have read more. I don't like to read things where I have to try to deduce what you are "trying" to tell me. Sorry...the internet is not an excuse for the retardation of the English language nor is it an excuse to bypass all the rules of grammar. The Next time you want to make a serious post, please put some time and effort into spelling things correctly and using proper language and grammar skills so that your meaning is clear putting in words where they should be

 

 

A word of unsolicited advice:  if you are going to attempt to be a grammar nazi, please have the courtesy to use proper grammar yourself.

This message has been brought to you by a real grammar nazi, one who understands that not everyone who posts on internet forums is a native English-speaker...and that even many people who are native English-speakers are capable of butchering the English language, as you yourself have so brilliantly proven.

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

I happen to give a crap about story...

 The rest of your post was just a generic rant, they announced... all the features found in the usual mmo, in addition to a great story and a world that can be influenced by your characters decisions.

 Nothing about what they are doing is cookie cutter, they absolutely dominated at e3. It sounds like you wanted to rant for the sake of ranting.

Not to mention the fact that BioWare dominated at E3 this year based on a three-minute cinematic.

As to the statement posited in the thread's subject, I do happen to "give a crap about story."  I found the 'story' in WAR to be lacking (probably in favor of building their RvR system, which really didn't impress me all that much), I find the story in WoW to be lacking (though the mindless slaughter of NPCs is a great stress reliever :) ), and don't get me started on the myriad other games out there that have put the "I WIN" button ahead of compelling story and gameplay.

I still play KOTOR from time to time, and I have played that game through at least a half dozen times.  BioWare has built a rather solid reputation on their storytelling.  Just because a game has a good story, that doesn't automatically mean that the focus on telling a story that players will relate to comes at the expense of other aspects of gameplay.  Give them a chance or - and here's a novel concept - wait to actually play the game before ranting on histrionically about it. 

So much drama over...well, nothing.  At this point, very little is known about the overall game and nothing at all is known about the gameplay.  To quote Heath Ledger's Joker, "Why so serious?"

Inevitably, there will be people who prefer to complete most of their game content in groups, and there will be people who prefer to complete most of their game content solo.  Would someone (calmly, rationally, and without any drama) explain why on earth this would be a problem?

Near as I can tell from reading this thread, there seem to be a lot of folks who are giving the appearance that their personal preference in gameplay should be everyone else's preference as well.  I tend to disagree on principle with anyone who tells me I "should" play a game one way or another.

Being shy, I often solo in MMOGs unless my friends happen to be online and playing the game at the time.  For many instanced dungeons, if my friends are not available, I simply level until I am high enough in level that I can complete the dungeon.  As far as raids go, if my friends and/or guildmates are on and they need my help, I am happy to give it, but I never, ever join PUGS because, frankly, stupid people piss me off when they do embarassingly stupid things.

But the fact that I prefer to solo does not, in any way, mean that soloing is the only way to play a game.  I will buy this game because everything I have heard and read about it gives me the impression that I will enjoy playing it.  The fact that it is being developed by BioWare, which has an impeccable reputation for creating excellent games with compelling stories is just gravy.

To get back on topic (which, as far as I can see unless my reading comprehension has completely and utterly failed me due  to lack of sufficient caffeine, is NOT the foreign policy of the United States government), it is entirely possible that the flag's large size of three feet tall by five feet wide was the issue in this case.  However, on reading the article, it does seem to me (and this could solely be due to the tone in which the article was written) that the question about the flag's size came up only after the press got involved with distributing this story.  Add to that the fact that the employee is now allowed to display the flag once again, and the response of the hospital administration comes across as an attempt at corporate posterior covering at its finest.

In regards to the comments about the nationalism of United States citizens, I would ask anyone here to please watch an NHL game or a European football (soccer for us Americans) or Rugby match.  Count the number of flags from various countries being bandied about there and then come and talk to me about excessive American nationalism. 

Go to another country - any other country - and, as an immigrant, tell the citizens of that country that you find the symbol of their nation - their nation's flag - offensive (whether it be because of the nation's foreign policy decisions or because the size of the flag is simply "too large") and come back and tell me what response you get.  I am quite honestly interested in hearing that no other citizen of any other nation on the planet would become offended by the idea of an immigrant (someone who is not born a citizen of a certain nation, but who chooses to go there and become a citizen, renouncing the nation of their birth and pledging allegiance and fidelity to the nation they have chosen to live in) telling a citizen of any nation that their flag is offensive for any reason.

Were this an issue of two citizens who were born in this nation having a disagreement regarding the display of the United States flag, I seriously doubt the press would have carried the story and I also doubt the reaction from many Americans would be so strong.  This, however, is a case of a woman who chose to emigrate to this country (and whom, I presume, is either now a naturalized citizen or who is at least a green card holder): a woman who made a choice to live in this nation, to adopt it as her own, who made a choice to swear allegiance and fidelity to the United States of America...and she now says that the display of the flag of the nation that she chose to live in is offensive to her.

As a point of reference, following is the oath of citizenship administered to those who choose to be come citizens of the United States:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; So help me God.  ("So help me God" is optional, not mandatory, in reciting the oath.)

To me, and to many Americans, this issue is less about inflamed nationalism than it is about an individual who chose to live in this nation, who chose to renounce allegiance to the nation of their birth and to pledge allegiance to the nation of their choice, and then who chose to renounce the symbol of the nation of their choosing as "offensive." 

To such an individual, my response is decidedly unsympathetic: you chose to live here and if you do not like living here, it would not hurt my feelings one bit if you chose to go back to where you came from.

 

EDIT:  spell check must have broken :(

 

As a longtime SWG player (on Scylla, no less), PAX is by far one of the finest guilds it has ever been my privilege to fight against:  top-notch players and just generally good folks all-around.

Best of luck to you guys.

Originally posted by Thunderous

I am very skeptical about TOR because it has an affilation with Lucas, period.  Let's hope that Bioware has enough clout to keep guys like JulioTorres out of decision-making related to gameplay mechanics.


 

Having seen some of the screenshots and other materials coming out of TOR, I'm not impressed.  It's basically, in my opinion, just another Lucas money grab.  Then again, the Clone Wars movie and series on which they seem to be basing their artwork doesn't impress me, either:  I'm of the opinion that it all looks like crap, particularly the current character and weapon design that they're showing for TOR.  But then, I won't be throwing my money at it, either. ;)

A-freakin'-men!

Originally posted by Suvroc
Originally posted by Nifa
Originally posted by Suvroc
Originally posted by Nifa  

Seriously...it's a game.  If you enjoy it, play it and have fun.  If you don't enjoy it, cancel your sub and find a game you do enjoy - but to seemingly act as though your opinion regarding a particular game is the only correct opinion or the only one that matters is, to me, a bit on the silly side.


 

I used to think this way too. I used to believe it was a game and went about it with a lot of enthusiasm. Unfortunetly SoE showed me through their actions that it wasn't "just a game". It's a product and a business, and we are consumer's of that product just like anything else you might buy.

To think of MMO's as just a game is to allow things like the NGE to become acceptable (and when I say things like the NGE I mean the lack of control we have over the product we bought). I personally don't want to see this happen again - and I don't think anyone would really want to either.

I believe we all deserve better then this.

 

But you're exactly on point:  MMO's are, in fact, a product and a business, and companies do reserve the right to change or even stop offering those products in any way at any time.  That is an agreement we make every time we log into any MMO we play.


 

I don't know if you read the SWG forums here very much Nifa but a short while ago we had some amazing conversations regarding this issue. One of the points made in those discussions was in fact that changes are neccessary in any MMO - I think everyone can agree on that. But to alter the core game mechanics I believe should not be included in the "gameplay may change" phrase.

I think that's a pretty reasonable and fair expectation from any game, and perhaps it's time for the EULA's to change.


 

I do read the SWG forums quite regularly, and I recall the some of the discussion threads you are talking about here.  Many good points have been made on the issue, and, while I do tend to agree with your assessment that "the core game mechanics...should not be included in the 'gameplay may change' phrase," the game now is what it is.  It's been consistently stated that they're not going to roll back, but attempt to improve on the product they have.

While certainly not a Sony "fanboi (girl)," I will give the current development team some credit for at least making an attempt, however cursory at times, to listen to the community.  The fact is that you just cannot please all of the people all of the time, and people are going to get pissed no matter what you do.

Is it time for the EULA's to change?  Probably.  But then, that would have the potential of creating legal issues for all game companies.  Think about it:  enough of the playerbase gets pissed off about a major change, just sue!  Were that to happen, we would have a bit more control, player-side, over what happens in the games we choose to play, but at what cost?  If game companies were spending all their time and money in civil courts defending business decisions (even clearly idiotic ones), how much money would be left over for development and improvement on current games or development of new games?  Who wants to pay twice - or more - what they pay now for a single subscription due to lawsuits filed by disgruntled players?

Did SOE make the most colossal fubar in gaming history?  Pretty much.

What is the best way for players to answer such unimaginably stupid decision-making at the corporate level?  In my opinion, exactly the way many people did:  by taking their money elsewhere.

Originally posted by Suvroc
Originally posted by Nifa  

Seriously...it's a game.  If you enjoy it, play it and have fun.  If you don't enjoy it, cancel your sub and find a game you do enjoy - but to seemingly act as though your opinion regarding a particular game is the only correct opinion or the only one that matters is, to me, a bit on the silly side.


 

I used to think this way too. I used to believe it was a game and went about it with a lot of enthusiasm. Unfortunetly SoE showed me through their actions that it wasn't "just a game". It's a product and a business, and we are consumer's of that product just like anything else you might buy.

To think of MMO's as just a game is to allow things like the NGE to become acceptable (and when I say things like the NGE I mean the lack of control we have over the product we bought). I personally don't want to see this happen again - and I don't think anyone would really want to either.

I believe we all deserve better then this.


 

But you're exactly on point:  MMO's are, in fact, a product and a business, and companies do reserve the right to change or even stop offering those products in any way at any time.  That is an agreement we make every time we log into any MMO we play.

We as consumers certainly don't have to like those changes, and I'll be the first to say that Sony - as a general rule, not just when it comes to their online gaming products - has made some of the worst business decisions ever when it comes to their customers.

But in the end, it is, as you say, a product and a service.

Just as I do not expect any control over other products I buy, I cannot truly expect to control the product of a game - MMO or otherwise.  I can give feedback regarding how I feel in a mature and rational manner and hope the business involved listens.  If the business chooses not to listen, then I can choose to take my business elsewhere.  But I can also choose not to spend the rest of my life holding someone's mistakes - including a business' mistakes - against them, and I can choose whether or not I bring up every mistake that has been made along the way in every conversation that arises.

The NGE has long been cited as one of the biggest mistakes in gaming history by consumers and by fairly well everyone in the industry.  Certainly, customers do deserve to be treated better than that, you are absolutely right.

Whether or not Sony has learned from that huge mistake as a corporation is up for debate (in my opinion, they have learned some lessons, others they have yet to learn).

But to hold Sony's mistakes against the people who choose to use their products out of enjoyment and enthusiasm for those products is, in my mind, every bit as wrong as what SOE did to their customers to begin with.  It's a bit like getting screwed over by Verizon and then consistenly berating anyone who uses Verizon's services simply because you had a terrible experience and do not like the way the company does business.

 

**edited - because spelling and other real world skills are important to me ;P **

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