Originally posted by banthis

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by wicked357

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by wicked357

If you are looking to make a game off of someone elses program, that is not programming.

 

The OP stated he wanted to make an MMORPG, not that he wanted to learn to program. Even commercial MMORPG productions are beginning to use software like the Hero Engine:

Sure, they will have programmers to add game specific features to the Engine, but the majority of the Dev Team will be level makers, scripters, model makers, etc., not C++ programmers.

Bioware recently licensed the Hero Engine. They will concentrate on making the game, instead of making the game engine.

 

 

Actually they program there own tools to use that are specific to there game. So yes you do need to know programming. If you didn't companies that are higher for there software engineer positions wouldnt state strong C++ skills 3 years experience. If you don't know anything about it don't speak. Using an engine is just that it is a engine if you don't know what an engine is read up. Everything that is there game still have to be programmed, yes I said it programmed! If you think that game companies don't use programming anymore your on crack and obviously is completely speaking out of there ass! I have a task for you go download a game engine or buy a cheap one. Load it up and see what happens! This isn't unreal tournament where they give you the map builder.... lol. If you create your own game you have to know programming. A lot of companies license a game engine already created some are really good vs making your own.

 

The Original poster said he wanted to make an MMORPG not that he wanted to be a programmer. Those are two separate issues.

Ok, you can program some C++, that's great. But a Hobbyist can purchase Realm Crafter, and make an MMORPG without programming. No, it won't be WoW or EQ3, but it will be an MMORPG.

And look at the Hero Engine. No one on this forum can afford it, but I gaurantee you I could make an MMORPG with it without programming, and without smoking crack.

 If you don't beleive me, then buy me the Hero Engine, and I'll prove it.

 

You're free to post your opinion, as am I, so don't waste your time requesting that I don't speak.

 

You still have to be able to program and script in order to use Engines even the Hero one.  You can't just buy an engine and hit play you have to know how to use it.   My company builds engines and you dont just buy our engine and hit a button you have to programmatically use the engine.   There is no way to make an MMORPG with just an Engine Tool, most MMO engines don't even include all the stuff you need for programming the network end.   If he knows nothing about network programming he's out of luck there too.  

There are some freebie plug n play MMO makers but they are extremely limited, some don't even include networking capability or charge to use their network service, and provide little capability to do anything even remotely close to WoW or even what UO could. 

If the OP wants to make an MMO and wants it to even be remotely fun for him and a few friends to play he'll need to learn how to Script and program and be an artist (art doesn't come with engines either ya know).   If he wants to make a game even if its Tetris online his best bet is to start small and learn how to make pong using C++ or C#, XNA etc.  There are tons of books that can get a person started but if you dont knwo jack squat a tool or an engine is of complete waste to spend money on.

Script, yes, program no.

If you want to make an MMORPG with Realm Crafter or Hero Engine, you don't have to program. No, you won't be able to add unique features, but both the low end Realm Crafter and the high end Hero Engine will generate the network code for your client and server.

Take a look at the Hero Engine if you haven't done so:

I'm not saying that you dont' need programmers to make an AAA commercial MMORPG. Of course you do, even with the Hero Engine, because you're going to want to program unique features for your game.

But seriously, look at the Hero Engine, take a look at the videos, and tell me you have to program to make a generic MMORPG. You don't.

Yes, you have to know how to use the engine, that goes for any software. You can't use Windows if you don't know how. That doesn't mean you have to program in C++.

"Source Code Available -- So you can extend the engine."

http://www.heroengine.com/why.asp

You need the source code if you want to extend the engine. Otherwise, you don't.

Originally posted by Chieftan

I was wondering why nobody's tried to implement the system in the X-Wing and Tie Figher series.

For those who didn't play those games, you basically had control of your offense, defense and air speed by allocating your ship's power. 

-If you needed to "tank" by engaging a capitol ship, you shifted all of your power to your front shields.

-If you were dogfighting other small ships, you diverted power to your lasers and engines.

-If you needed to get away or reach a waypoint fast, you diverted power to your engines.

What I wonder is if players would want this kind of freedom in a MMO or if they actually prefer to always play by class archetypes.  With this system the concept of NPC aggro could even become an obsolete mechanic.

If you like solo play, or just zerg play, sure. If you want interactive grouping, this doesn't work that well.

Originally posted by wicked357

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by wicked357

If you are looking to make a game off of someone elses program, that is not programming.

 

The OP stated he wanted to make an MMORPG, not that he wanted to learn to program. Even commercial MMORPG productions are beginning to use software like the Hero Engine:

Sure, they will have programmers to add game specific features to the Engine, but the majority of the Dev Team will be level makers, scripters, model makers, etc., not C++ programmers.

Bioware recently licensed the Hero Engine. They will concentrate on making the game, instead of making the game engine.

 

 

Actually they program there own tools to use that are specific to there game. So yes you do need to know programming. If you didn't companies that are higher for there software engineer positions wouldnt state strong C++ skills 3 years experience. If you don't know anything about it don't speak. Using an engine is just that it is a engine if you don't know what an engine is read up. Everything that is there game still have to be programmed, yes I said it programmed! If you think that game companies don't use programming anymore your on crack and obviously is completely speaking out of there ass! I have a task for you go download a game engine or buy a cheap one. Load it up and see what happens! This isn't unreal tournament where they give you the map builder.... lol. If you create your own game you have to know programming. A lot of companies license a game engine already created some are really good vs making your own.

The Original poster said he wanted to make an MMORPG not that he wanted to be a programmer. Those are two separate issues.

Ok, you can program some C++, that's great. But a Hobbyist can purchase Realm Crafter, and make an MMORPG without programming. No, it won't be WoW or EQ3, but it will be an MMORPG.

And look at the Hero Engine. No one on this forum can afford it, but I gaurantee you I could make an MMORPG with it without programming, and without smoking crack.

 If you don't beleive me, then buy me the Hero Engine, and I'll prove it.

You're free to post your opinion, as am I, so don't waste your time requesting that I don't speak.

Jumping is important, IMO, not for bunny hopping combat, but because if it doesn't exit it causes a feeling of claustrophobia and restriction leading to frustration. It's similar to isometric 2d games. When I play an isometric 2d game, I'm constantly trying to scroll up to see the sky and the horizon, but I never can. I feel claustrophobic.

Without jumping, the smallest obstacle has to be walked around, instead of jumped over. It's very frustrating after playing a full 3d game where you can jump over small obstacles. I can see where I want to go, but I can't get there in what would be a normal manner, to simply jump over the log. No, I have to walk around. It's a pain in hte arse.

That being said, from all I'ver heard Ryzom has some good sandbox elements  in the game, and I do wish there were more games with these sorts of elements.

Originally posted by Flarinstar

 No I'm betting 2009 is a horrible year for MMO's. The only good game on the horizon is Darkfall and that is going to come out this year, I know that for a fact. 

 

 

Darkfall is releasing before 2009, and you know that for a fact? Even though it's almost November, and the game hasn't been beta tested?

Originally posted by wicked357

If you are looking to make a game off of someone elses program, that is not programming.

The OP stated he wanted to make an MMORPG, not that he wanted to learn to program. Even commercial MMORPG productions are beginning to use software like the Hero Engine:

Sure, they will have programmers to add game specific features to the Engine, but the majority of the Dev Team will be level makers, scripters, model makers, etc., not C++ programmers.

Bioware recently licensed the Hero Engine. They will concentrate on making the game, instead of making the game engine.

I'm loving this show. They're doing a great job. It doesn't exactyly follow the books, but it's very entertaining.

If you've read the books, you know the answers to most of the OP's questions, but those would be spoilers.

Either Realm Crafter, or Torque MMO Kit:

You can get started with either one of those. You're not going to press a button and make WoW, but you can actually run a server, script quests, make terrain, etc.

The links posted by Virgothree aren't particularly helpful, and 3d Gamestudio doesn't have the network code you need for an MMORPG.

You get what you pay for.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

I think 2009 looks like a great year for MMORPGs, especially after the very dull last few years that we have seen.

2009 is supposed to bring us, or claims to bring us:

Earthrise

Jumpgate Evolution

Fallen Earth

Mortal Online(I think)

Darkfall (Lets be honest, if it's really coming out soon it will probably not be until 09)

I thought  I saw a few rumors saying SW:TOR was supposed to come out in 09 but that's still doubtful.

Overall I think there is a nice line up of new games coming out or scheduled to come out next year. What you guys think?

I think none of that looks very intriguing. If you're reduced to waiting on vaporware like Darkfall, then 2009 won't be a very good year for MMORPGs.

How can people still call Aion Just another Asian grinder? Because it's probably just another Asian grinder. If the game releases and proves to be something different, most of us will be surprised.

Originally posted by nomadian

WoW is more soloing to 60 or 70 then grouping from there. Not a lot of people group under that as it is more efficient to solo and people don't want to waste 2-3 hours(well for an instance). There is the odd group where you got to venture making your own for a while or staying in the lfg all the time while you solo. Additionally a lot of people now look for convenient boosts.

This reminds me of early PvP designed for the "end game". People wondered, why do I have to wait for the "end game" for the fun part of the game to start?

If grouping is fun, and I think it is, then why should I wait till the end for a good grouping game? I'd like to see a good grouping game right from the start, and skip the raiding at the end game.