Originally posted by Remii718

WoW is not a game made for children it's a game made for everyone.  Something other MMOs haven't been able to accomplish since. WoW isn't easy, go raid the Hard mode 25 man raids or try to break 2200 arena 3v3 or 5v5.

The game is accessible not easy.

 

Just wait until Rated battlegrounds come out and all the really good pvpers in WoW come back that ruled the game when the old ladder system was in place. These people hated arena and now will own everyone.

I d agree that there are a few elements in the endgame that are hard . Such as the hard mode 25 man boses and the arena .But its a very small part of such a large game . Levelings easier . getting epics is easier . The battlegrounds are easier .Honor in th battlegrounds is easier to obtain . If you want to try a different faction is easier ( now rather than leveling an alt you can pay to do it ) the list goes on and on . Its really a nonscence to say the game is anywhere near as hard as it was two and half years ago . In fact i can think of very few things that are as difficult as they were a few years ago . The thing is i think Blizzard have sort of acknowlaged they ve made huge mistakes in the game play in the last couple of years and the next Xpac is thier way of trying to sort it all out .whether that will work and whether people are willing to have faith in Blizzard as a company again long term remains to be seen .

Once bitten twice shy .

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by baldrick76

I think Warcrafts a wonderful mmo for children . As more decent games with more advanced gameplay come along WoW will provide a nice nursery slope for them to start enjoying mmos  . I  find its been made too easy to appeal to me now but my nephews love it age 7 and 9 have a great time on it . Its not a bad thing that WoW is now designed with younger children in mind they are quite entitled to enjoy mmos like everyone else . My only wish is that they had left enough content in it that was difficult enough and appealled to me enough to keep playing .
 

 

Average age of Wow players is above 30. Posted the Nielsen study link 29 times now.

Won't do it again for troll baldrick 76, as baldrick 75 was already banned 74 times....

 

lol @ Zorndorf you really are losing your grip with reality .

Originally posted by Zorndorf

@ Arthen999.

Wishful thinking boy of someone who has NO idea what those millions of WOW subs stand for.

You can't compare Wow with EQ in subs and massive play That's a WHOLE other league....

http://www.xfire.com/genre/mmo/massively_multiplayer_online/ still shows that 58-62 % marketshare on a daily basis

Last year that was down to 54% btw...

Now this is a sample of 300.000 players constantly on line 24HR/7D (meaning a changing sample of around 1.500.000 million western PC players).

You are ONE with such a thought. Guess you can show no other stats than the above. And ... that market share ... grew compared to last summer of 2008.

So

... your opinion fails by lack of proof. Simple.

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War and Aoc had their change. But they messed it up ... in a BIG way.

Aion is not grabbing the same massive attention span. And now the eastern 3.5 M is known to be NO fact but fabricated and based on free to play models and simply plain typos, it shows even there ... Aion is still at less than 50% played than WOW in its OWN homeland. (400K against 800K +).

Why?

Mostly because of the Korean copycat, but a LOT of WOW players I know had enough of the "getting quickly to the goldmine of Blizzard" with copycat products that simply don't offer the same huge world and choices of play.

 

Where did i say that it did nt still have millions of subs . I ve just said its lost significant numbers .Blizzards silence on the matter means they are losing subscriptions . The xfire graph i ve seen before it really is another tool that fanbois use to prove Warcraft is still at its peak .

Its not actually accurate all it does is count how many xfire  subscribers who have logged into xfire while they play a game that is on that subscriber's xfire watch list . Not everyone that plays an mmo uses xfire . All it means is that its a popular program for Warcraft players .Actually in my time in Warcraft i knew hundreds of players over the years i was there and not one of them mentioned xfire once . Lots of people did use vent though .

To use that graph makes you look a fool Zorndorf . I suggest you stop cutting and pasting it all over these forms to try and prove your point because it proves absolutly nothing .

Originally posted by Regnevanz

let's just go and back pedal a bit, I think the OP has a point

1999 - Everquest grand daddy mmo - how things were done

5 years honeymoon untill...

2004 Word Of Warcraft - Refines polishes knock EQ out fo the water very quickly - broaband uptake helps with host larger numbers in MMO's

5 years honeymoon untill...

2009 Aion Online Launches - new game play graphical standard and pvp tactics refines genre - broadband has moved onto ADSL2+ technology is there to host even more players

 

just a guess though...

I think your most likly right .Any game even one as popular as World of Warcraft has a shelf life . The only reason its really maintained its numbers is due to the fact all the mmos released since it was launched have failed in one way or another .There lots of people that love WoW that would have you believe that Aion is too pvp centric or and asian grinder but most of them i think you ll find have not actually played the game . Personally i used to like the world pvp in WoW but thats all gone so the pvp in Aion does nt bother me one bit in fact its a bonus .
 

On the issue of WoWs decline it is happening already that is a fact . Its partly due to the situation in China but the loses almost certainly go beyond this . When Blizzards subs were going up they made a big thing of releasing subscription numbers every quarter . So far this year they have not made any statement pertaining to this issue . If this was souly down to the subscriptions in China .Blizzard would have released the figures for the west to show that the game was still healthy here . Some people will point to WoWs entry into the guiness book of records this year but the information for that was collated when the game was at its peak .

I think the arguement a lot of fans of Warcraft will have when it becomes so obvious to even them the game is on the decline is that wait untill the cataclysm xpac will be out in just over a years time and it ll return to the numbers it once had . Whether this Xpac will be the big fix that puts right a lot of whats gone wrong in WoW remains to be seen . By their past form i doubt it .

It seamed pretty busy when  i was there last month . I had a good time in it but i m heading to Aion next month . Games dont have to have Warcraft popularity to survive . Theres a lot less popular games than AOC still alive and kicking . I think along with Warhammer , AoC may very well be one of the next games to change to the the mircopayment model .  

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by arthen999

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Let's just say that to be competitve with WOW you no longer need that 100 millon dollar development money.

Just double that amount to even get near to what Blizzard now has in stock ...

As a WoW fan even I am baffled. Huge is an understatement.

Courage WOW haters.

Perhaps ignoring the announced content is the only solution to the upcoming health problems of WOW bashers.

 

lol its not need that drives Blizzard its greed . Its a success of course but WoWs gameplay has been ever more aimed at younger players for the last few years and the game has started to lack any real challenge apart from a hanfull of endgame bosses and arena play . As to health problems ,given the amount of time you WoW players spend online playing that game i would think its more likly you would be prone to suffering from physical and mental health issues . lol ;)

Well typing multiple times "lol" for a well known Wow hater is one thing.

But smile with a pain is more likely :)))

That expansion is so huge, you could fit 4 Aion's into it alone.

Oops.

Well i find it funny .... did you actually read my earier post . i said i would happily pay for an expansion that would put warcraft right .

How does that make a known wow hater ?

Think Zorndork sees wowhaters under the bed these days because hes so worried about Aion . hahaha

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Let's just say that to be competitve with WOW you no longer need that 100 millon dollar development money.

Just double that amount to even get near to what Blizzard now has in stock ...

As a WoW fan even I am baffled. Huge is an understatement.

Courage WOW haters.

Perhaps ignoring the announced content is the only solution to the upcoming health problems of WOW bashers.

lol its not need that drives Blizzard its greed . Its a success of course but WoWs gameplay has been ever more aimed at younger players for the last few years and the game has started to lack any real challenge apart from a hanfull of endgame bosses and arena play . As to health problems ,given the amount of time you WoW players spend online playing that game i would think its more likly you would be prone to suffering from physical and mental health issues . lol ;)

Originally posted by Reccoo

<Deleted>

The only stupidity i see here is yours reccoo .

Looking over whats been said about this expansion is it does indeed endevour to remedy some of the problems that have been obvious to all but a few blinkerd fanbois . Its actually quite wise of Blizzard to take on board some of whats so obviously gone wrong with the game in recent years .  I m starting to see this expansion a pay for a fix type deal too . I m sure it ll offer plenty of new content but at its core it going to be aimed at bring some of the fun and challenge lacking in Warcraft at present .

Mind you if it manages to put warcraft back on the right track i wont mind paying for it . Of course i may be happily emersed in Aion by that time .

i found some of the questing fun in rise of the lichking but it seamed to get very dull from level 76-80 . the endgame was far too easy for the most part and wintersgrasp lagged so badly it simply was nt any fun to play . in general it was nt a very enjoyable experiance . it looks like the new expansion is nt offering a new landmass just revamping the game somewhat . it sounds to me very much like blizzard have realised they ve made huge mistakes and are trying to wipe the slate clean in the form of a paid expansion . given it does nt appear to offer much new content perhaps it will be out this year . who knows .

Originally posted by BarCrow

They announced the third xpac in about the same interval they announced the other two. I think it 's announcement was more to do with WOW and it's continued progress in generally pleasing it's player base  and not so much any threat Aion may pose.

i would nt think it ll be this year though . one comes along roughly every two years in wow . i cant see one being ready this winter .

what i think blizzard will do around the time of aions release is offer an extensive patch and maybe even more server options ( like classic or adult servers ) . even if theres no expansion pack they will try something to stem the loses to aion . i dont know if anything would work at the moment thought because there are a lot of players that are very unhappy with the game now . whatever happens from now on i dont think there will be anywhere near the player numbers in warcraft that there were when the game peaked last december .  a lot of thats down to the situation in china but i also think they ve declined in the west too . still its a very popular game and will remain so for years to come which is a good thing because it ll be the kindergarten of mmos meaning that it ll be players entry level mmo experiance . hopefully they ll like it enough to move on to the harder and better things that will be out there .

i doubt aion will fail like warhammer . age of conan is pretty busy at the moment so i would nt call that game a complete faliure just not a huge success . aions a totally different beast its already a huge success in the asian market ( lets not forget that market accounted for half of wows subs ) whether that will be repeated in the west is yet to be seen . i think its a fair assumption to make that it will be second only to warcraft and it will take bored players away from that game . i see this game having the potential to go head to head with wow  . the competition for blizzard will be good . maybe they ll start taking notice as to why they are losing players and make changes to bring them back . warcrafts far too easy now in general and obviously aimed more at younger children . i think blizzard have failed to acknowlage a vast number of thier subs come from adults and huge number have already left or are about too. maybe aion will fill that void.

Originally posted by DoomsDay01

Originally posted by nitefly

 

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Originally posted by Wyluli
Unfortunately, WoW is currently the status quo.  It is the most ubiquitous and notorious example of the MMO - and so, whether it deserves it or not, all new MMO's are inevitably compared with it. For other MMO producers this makes Blizzard and WoW "public enemy #1."

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Not true. From a publisher point of view, World of Warcraft is golden epitome of financial and main stream success that all other MMOs can only hope to get an inkling of.

 

From a player point of view, oppinions are as legion as the amount of players. Some will put on the full hate behavior, others will simply shrug and accept other people have different tastes.

No publisher worth his salt is unaware of the fact that they in large part own their entire potential customer base to Blizzard. Before Blizzard MMOs were niche and geeky, now they are mainstream and the topic of discussion over coffee at offices all over the world.

 

I am from, as they say, Old school MMO's. Hard leveling, harsh penalties, the works. I was playing EQ2 when  WoW came out and I had no interest in it. a couple of my friends went to WoW and asked me to come over. After a couple months, I finally did. I have to say at first, I thought it was not that good. I didnt like the art style (I mean, I did just come from EQ2) but after really looking at it, I really started to appreciate the work that went into that style and came to like it a lot. As I was leveling, I was thinking, Now THIS is the way MMO's should have gone in terms of advancement. The longer I played though, that feeling started to go away. That feeling was replaced with something else, something I couldn't quite put into words. It later became obvious to me and it was that I had no sense of accomplishment within the game. Sure, I made level 60. Sure, I went to another server and made another level 60. While the game was entertaining, it lacked something and that something was finally realized. Everything was being handed to me on a silver platter. I had no pride in my characters as I did in earlier games. I had no fear of the world as I did in earlier games. All that had been lost.

Sure, my hunter had a 75% win rate in pvp, My Shaman 90%+, and that part of it was entertaining but the pve side of the game had no feelings of true accomplishments. There really was nothing there that I felt from the old school mmo's. Man, I got stories I could tell you about my cleric and my mage from the old eq1 days that would curl your hair. The best I can give you from wow might make you get split ends.

Do I hate wow, no. Like I said it was entertaining to a point. But I can say that MMO's of today have taken away the one thing that actually mattered and that is fear. Without fear there can not be any true sense of accomplishment. Oh you will have moments of overcoming some great odds and being victorious, but in the end, there is no fear and thus there is no true accomplishment. My ruling is still out on Aion as I don't know if at any point it ever instills fear into you, but if it does, then I am going to be one happy camper.

i totally agree there does need to be a fear factor . warcraft had one to a certain point when it was released . but the adding off more graveyeards so if you were killed really ment you could ress pretty much almost imediatly because where ever you die now you have literally no distance to travel . 
 

warcraft been aimed more and more at the younger casual player . i dont hate it either but i see no point in playing it because i find its dull now .

Originally posted by qotsa

Originally posted by cfurlin

Woo Hoo! Fame bait...I'll bite...

Pretend? Who needs to pretend the game is no good?

 

QFT. I've played several of the beta weekends and there is no need to pretend. The only pretending going on is that this game is somehow better than any other F2P Asian game and deserves a monthly fee.

And the WoW community? I played WoW for around a year and I never once saw a person with a name like Dickbutt. But I have in Aion.= )

lol i think that goes to show your a complete liar . you cant not play warcraft without seeing players with stupid childish names . admitedly i never saw a dickbutt but i ve seen a shitty , a fartpower , pownu , bigknob and a felch in my time .and thats the tip of a very big ice burg in warcraft .

on a side note have you ever noticed how many death knights names include the word death in thier name .

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by leumasx7

 

Aiming the game at the casuals??  about 1% of all the guilds in wow have killed yougsoran on hardmode, and 99% cant even reach him on normal mode, and 0.5% have killed algalon, so you kepet alking about casuals and no challenege, yet the major playerbase cant even kill yogsoran or alglaon.  Let alone do sarth+3  Infact I would take a guess less than 30% of the guilds have killed sarth_+3 on 10 man or 25 man.

So u kepe talking about casuals etc, so a few thousand can clear Ulduar out of millions yet its casual??

 

i think it's cuz most of the "guilds" are not real gamers. there just people looking to do something else not involving their life.

most real gamers on wow, just pvp.

It is even worse.

Only 0.06% of the Raiders achieved the hardest achievement in the Ulduar Raid.

That's an average of 1 guild for ... every 5 to 6 servers. 1 Guild of around 30 players out of 60.000 players.

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So people here in this forum thread stating they don't like Wow because it has no challenge ... clearly have no clue what happens in the game.

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As for PvP: Try getting Deadly Gladiator title achievement;: that's 3 people out of .... 200.000 (tx to the 20 clustered PvP competition).

Now that is what I would call a challenge instead of standing anonymous in the crowd of meaningless "crowd" world pvp.

That's unique PvP heroism.

Yeah: talking of a challenge.

i m not familiar with the drops that can be achieved in the hardest part of an udluar raid they should be whar rare were to epics a few years ago . also the pvp is so unbalanced in wow it really depends on the classes you play in the arena as to how well you do . although i think blizzard got the 3 vs 3 right . :)  . i actually still think theres a listening ear in that company thats not been deafend to fanbois praise . its a good thing too they will need it in the coming years . warcraft  need to offer more challenges than just the two you have mentioned . it needs to be across the board at all levels and in all aspect of the gameplay not just confined to the odd end game boss and arenas .
 

you ve got the constipation virus .

Originally posted by EricDanie

For players this doesn't mean crap, if you have fun at that game, $15 for a whole month is maybe the cheapest entertainment you can have, don't bring the word "free" in here because no serious developer makes a game focusing on people that will play it for free, you are either sheep to entertain the paying customers or you are a future consumer in their view, when you hit that level or area in which playing for free becomes inviable or ridiculously ineffective.

For companies what determines this is the player base, you need a minimum number to pay server costs and etc, sometimes the easiest (and only) way is to go free to play and let the rich addicts pay the server costs for everyone else. Because as mentioned, the price doesn't really matter if you started playing it and enjoy it and that's why you have people spending over $100/mo on a same MMO.

true but could an mmo double its players by reducing that price by a third for example . it would and will be interesting to see if and when one does .

its bound to happen sooner or later .

Originally posted by Wakawakaz

Yes, I would trust Blizzard even in another MMO. WoW, besides being successful, turned out to be quite fun for me until end game... They created a new basis for many other MMOs. Perhaps in their new game they'll improve the systems and the weaknesses that WoW put together.

it will be interesting to see if it is indeed Starcraft based . I m not sure what the current buzz is on its new mmo whether its fantasy or sci fi based . If its the later it will be going up against the the likes of the starwars mmo in that genre . of course theres nothing to say a star wars game is going to be good but if it is it has a far larger possible fan base than even wow . Personally i doubt they do a repeat of WoW in that whatever they produce next will be a little more mature and more difficult in content . It would be silly for Blizzard to produce a second mmo aimed at such a young player base as WoW now is . I m not saying theres nothing there for adults but generally speaking this game is not aimed at people 18 + anymore .

Originally posted by DEXTER2882

I personnaly went through the betas and if I understand correctly it will be a PAY for timed played game.  Not a game like WOW that is about a monthly fee.  Who wouldn't want to start out almost even in a game like this where as WOW has so many players ahead of you not only in level but also experience.  Being literally on the ground floor of such a highly rated game only makes sense and the commitment in $ is not that bad.  I know the game costs around $49+ dollars but that is where your commitment comes in. N.C> is NO slouch in gaming!

No i think your wrong there . its a monthly subscription like WoW . You may have the Asian model of the way Aion is funded muddled with the western model which nscoft will use . 

Why did you bring up such a topic on your first post ??? It seams rather in depth for someone new to these forums.

POO is that troll sweat i smell lol ???

Originally posted by Computer1337

If the MMO is really fun, ill pay 15$ a month.  And think about it this way, would you rather have a game where you cant get certain items cause you have to pay money for them (cash shop) or have a game where you have to pay, but everything in the game is a in game item?  Id rather pay the 15$ a month.

depends on the mmo .i would nt pay for ddo or spellborn . when they are free i ll play the free content .  if i get into them i ll pay for adventure packs or whatever they offer beyond the point they stop being free. but oh of course ddo offers the option of a sub if you want to pay it which allows you so much in cash shops and access to the adventure packs . so its really not at all straight forward . it depends how its implimented .

i totally agree i d pay 15 if its fun . but very few are . at least not long term . i wonder if you ll be trying ddo when it goes free along with a lot of the rest of us ? i m betting you will ( although i doubt you ll admit to it ) lol .

i also hate cash shops but they really exist in every mmo that has gold and gold sellers in them . wows unofficialy cash shop is the auction house . aoc s is the trader  and so forth . once theres currency in a game they are inevitable .

a black market cash shop is still a cash shop .