Any further word on this?  It's been 2 years since the "application process" was in the works.  Any chance of some feedback to know if this is still something being considered?  Did the application get denied for some reason?

Anyway, just curious to hear some feedback.

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by Yamota

2500 accounts is 37.500 $/euros less per month. How much have they made selling 52 monocles?

 Don't believe it unless you've seen actual numbers. You know what you've done but you only know what other people say they've done and many of them lie.

Exactly, we have no hard numbers of actual cancelled subs, we will however get hard numbers if their cash shop is doing well. Using a soft count provided by a forum post on how many are quiting can not be verified, how many of those who say they are leaving actually are?

Another mistake is to assume every "canceled" account translates to a monthly income loss to CCP.  

If the majority of those "leaving" are indeed vets... then they are most likely paying for their monthly gametime via PLEX, not via cash. 

 I haven't given CCP any real money for over 1 year now, and my account is topped off through the end of this year.  Paying for PLEX through isk earned in game isn't very hard.  A lot of those accounts who say they are "leaving" probably haven't given CCP any real money in quite some time either.

Originally posted by NeerDoWell

I love EVE but lets not get carried away! 330k active subs does not equal 330k unique players! I know several people with three or more accounts and almost everyone has two...

I am curious how the leap was made from:

"I know several people..."

to

"...almost everyone has two".

Unless a person actually knows "almost everyone" playing EvE... that seems like an exageration.   Just saying.  

Just found it interesting that there are currently 5 MMOs here at mmorpg.com's "Most Popular Games" section that are on all 5 lists.  Today, Week, 1 Month, 6 Month, Year.

Those 5 MMOs are:

WoW

LoTRO

EvE

GW2

EQ2

A lot of games seem to come and go, but for MMOs to stay on all 5 lists seems to be quite an accomplishment.  

(And yes, I realize that GW2 is still in development.  Will be interesting to see if they can keep the interest up through release).

Originally posted by smitty0356

Turbine has been taking it easy, since it should be releasing an expansion here soon to stay on track to reach Mordor before it's rights to the LOTR liscence expires.  I like the game enough to want to see it finished, but I would hate to see them cut corners and make "micro-zones" in order to finish it.  I believe they have a firm deal until 2014 which leaves 3 years to make several zones, some of which should be HUGE (gondor, mordor, Rohan, fangorn, isengard).  If they don't finish, or cut corners to make these zones, I will be very disappointed!!

http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/02/20/lots-more-lotro-to-come-turbine-extends-lotr-license/

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Meh-sah-ya

Nice! Hope you can keep it up to date :)

as long as it doesn't get locked. 

Yikes!  They are pretty harsh over there at ForumFall.

Temko Firewing 4000+ US1 Player   Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Europe

I'm going to flat-out say not to follow the advice in this guide in the manner they are portayed. for my own reasons i've run a new character without any funds up since just before hellfreeze. i dont have much time to play it, so it's still pretty low, but i can tell flat out.. this guide is absolutly NOT a good way to do things. __________________ Shiva Firewing - Playing on both EU and NA. NA: Nandi Kou - NA: Shiva Firewing EU: Fluffy Incarnate

Kinda ironic that you've gotten more support here at mmorpg.com than on DarkFall's own forum.  

One thing that you omitted in your response Amathe...

EQ and UO are still available as options for players to choose over WoW to this very day.   The vast majority of players that have chosen to play WoW would not be interested in any other MMO.  For better or worse, WoW brought many more players into the MMO genre.  Those players were not all that interested in MMOs until WoW came along.

Like you I was around for the beginning days of UO and then EQ, AC, and then DAoC.  I agree those games in their day were different than WoW and the MMOs similar to it.  WoW did make quite a few things easier for players... hence the reason for the increase in players.  WoW was designed to appeal to as broad a player-base as possible.  UO and EQ... not so much.

I personally think the vast array of MMOs available is a good thing.  Each person should be able to find an MMO that they find enjoyable.  If a game that you find enjoyable is closed down or changed (looking at you pre-CU SWG)... there are others to fill the gap.  

Anyway... just my 2 cents on the subject.

Originally posted by Matt_UK

I think it depends on your account. I didn't need to buy shared storage, a goat, a wardrobe etc... because i already have them. I spent mine on cosmetic stuff and mainly Stat increases. To be honest i can't think of anything else to spend them on.

Have to be honest, if you've got a VIP account the points soon mount up. I'll probably end up with over a 1000 Will for my minstrel at this rate.

I could be wrong, but aren't the stats (Will, Fate, Agility, Vitality, Might) capped at 650?  

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?326797-Questions-regarding-stat-caps

http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Character_Stats

Originally posted by Balkon

Originally posted by xzyax

Yep, you pretty much summed it up grimm6th.

 

The reason that MMOs and Computer games in general go with the "Fantasy" version of Magic... instead of the "actual Magick".  Is that... well, most of us believe there isn't any "actual Magick".

 

A good portion of what the ancients believed to be "Magick", we recognize as science, chemistry, etc. today.  Hence, if you want players flinging Fireballs (or Eth-Or-Diths) in your MMO... you've got to turn to the realm of Fantasy. 

And, just so I can complete the trifecta; there is no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy either.  The Easter Bunny however;  is entirely real, and very scary.

What did you just read the title and not read the post?

You don't have to believe it's real for it to be a theme in a game. There are plenty of games about Greek Mythology, do you have to believe in those to play them?

Oh, I read it.  (I guess I knew to use Eth-Or-Dith in place of Fireball because I'd already Beta-tested your game?)

I'm a fan of Fantasy.  Fantasy books, games, etc.  Fantasy gives the option for so much more than the "actual Magick".  I think trying to base an MMO game on the subject matter as you've presented it would be hard to translate to a game that enough people would find enjoyable to play.

Getting over the hurdle of making it different than what we already know from the Fantasy side without just calling them different names would be a challenge in itself.  Calling a Fireball an Eth-Or-Dith doesn't really do much to differentiate the game from it's Fantasy MMO equivilant. 

Just like those of us who played Wizardry didn't think that because the spells were called Halito, Katino, or Dial that we weren't actually casting Fireball, Sleep, or Heal.  All they did was throw us a bit of an extra learning curve to memorize what the new words translated into.

Just calling things different names doesn't really change anything except to confuse players and make it harder for them to connect to your game.

Your idea of the words forming together to make the spells is nice in theory, but once someone posts up all the best combinations to some spoiler site... they will really just be the same as Fireball, Sleep, or Heal.

So, from you original list of Magick Schools... you've got these "schools"

 Alchemy -

Witchcraft -

Theurgy -

 Goetia -

 Astrology -

From just a brief search through these links... they seem to mirror the vast majority of what you've already described.  Remember, Fantasy writers pull from much of our own history and then add in liberal doses of imagination.  Fantasy has all the elements you're already trying to include... but without the "actual Magick" title. 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FantasyCharacterClasses

• The Inherent Gift Magician: Often referred to as a ''Sorcerer''. This magic-user was born with abilities they don't need to study, and can use more readily than other magicians. This is sometimes explained as being descended from some magical creature, other times as being part of a Witch Species. However, they are often much less versatile than other magic-users, being limited to a smaller or much more tightly-themed pool of spells.

• The Theurgist Magician: Commonly known as Warlocks or Sorcerers. The Magician makes a pact with a higher spirit (although not usually a god since those tend to be distinct in fantasy settings) which supplies them with magical power they usually don't have. This is usually flavored with a Deal With The Devil. While healing class pacts are seen as good, a magician that makes a pact with an entity that gives them the power to harm or destroy is usually flavored in a darker light - and it may turn out to be with demons or Eldritch Abominations. Thus, this type of magic is usually heavily offensive and nasty.

• The Summoner Magician: A higher level in which the caster summons the entity to them to do its bidding. Usually even more dangerous than regular Theurgist Magicians.

• The Vancian Magician: Also known as "Wizards", "Mages" etc. These casters rely on Rule Magic and study to learn and wield magic, usually taking years, leaving their bodies squishy and out of shape. They may have a restriction on using their magic - either they must be loaded like a gun, need to rest, can only cast something a certain amount of times per day. However, they generally have the largest pool of spells to choose from, and are the magical equivalent of a Swiss army knife.

• The Alchemist Magician: Chemistry + Magic. An Alchemist generally requires components to do magic, but they are often able to fashion useful items and potions, or combine items for radical effects in battles via transmutation. Among the more likely of the Magician archetypes to be good at healing.

• The Bard Magician: A hybrid class that employs Magic Music. Bards are the butt of a lot of jokes in fantasy settings, however, they can be very useful if employed carefully. They use songs to employ beneficial effects, healing, and sometimes damage. They usually have high stats for dealing with NP Cs, making them ideal for role-playing, barter, diplomacy and negotiations - aspects of the game often overlooked in favor of swords and spells.

• The Red Mage: A magician who does not specialize in one school or tradition and studies the magic of various types. They tend to be rare, and depending on which limitations they have, may be very powerful thanks to their versatility. Of all the kinds of magician, they tend to be the most open minded and least prone to think there are Un Equal Rites.

• Necromantic Magician: A magic-user that wields power over the dead, blood, and "death energy". Are usually antagonists, but if Dark Is Not Evil, may be a playable class. Often they employ a Zerg Rush - creating hordes of weak undead and sending them after a problem till it dies. Any other abilities will likely be curses that weaken or sap away strength.

• The Illusionist Magician: A magic-user who casts illusions. Generally considered weak, with no real damage output, and has been phased out of most settings - their abilities are generally given to characters with Psychic powers and Bardic Magicians.

• The Nature Magician: Wields power over the natural world, often including elements, animals, and plants.

• The Elemental Magician: A specialized Magician who can only use Elemental Powers in some way. They may be able to use all the elements, or may specialize in one or two. Often, they are the key to winning Elemental Rock Paper Scissors in their setting.

• The Druid Magician: A jack of all trades nature magician. They often have a mix of elemental offense, healing, and the ability to morph into animals or elemental spirits to become melee fighters. To further the overlap with the Cleric classes, is often a worshipper of nature.

• The Shamanic Magician: A nature magician with a Summoner twist. This class generally has a mix of offensive and defensive powers that revolve around the careful employ of things (mostly devices) like spirits, totems, etc.

• Black Mages, mages who practice offensive magic.
• Blue Mages, mages who copy enemy abilities.
• Red Mages, mages who are jack-of-all-trades.
• Summoners, mages who conjure up sacred beasts and deities.
• Time Mages, mages who manipulate time and space.
• White Mages, mages who practice healing magic.
• Green Mages, mages who practice Green Magic, which enhances allies' abilities and weakens enemies.

 

 

I think you are being a bit too quick to dismiss D&D's magic schools and their many components as well.  You've obviously never played the pen and paper version.  Here is a very brief summary:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_of_Dungeons_&_Dragons

 

 

Yikes... major whoops on editing... just read the link above.

Yep, you pretty much summed it up grimm6th.

The reason that MMOs and Computer games in general go with the "Fantasy" version of Magic... instead of the "actual Magick".  Is that... well, most of us believe there isn't any "actual Magick".

A good portion of what the ancients believed to be "Magick", we recognize as science, chemistry, etc. today.  Hence, if you want players flinging Fireballs (or Eth-Or-Diths) in your MMO... you've got to turn to the realm of Fantasy. 

And, just so I can complete the trifecta; there is no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy either.  The Easter Bunny however;  is entirely real, and very scary.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Prestige Class will be in DarkFall2010 (internal code). Same for Armor revamp I believe.

 

Offline skilling is AV's new lazy way to reduce the grind without really doing anything. It's a band-aid fix on a gunshot wound. Now I'll get flamed because no information was released by AV aside that there will be Offline skilling and it won't affect a lot of skills but, let's be honest, Offline skilling is bad for DarkFall who already has severe issues to keep players from AFK Macro'ing. It works well in EVE because they worked a lot around it and have a very large population. DarkFall on the other hand...is the complete opposite.

 

I'd rather players not be rewarded for not playing the game, and that AV finally adresses AFK Macro'ing once and for all. A man can dream~

 

To become d'accord again. The..."grind"...has been adressed several times and will ...again ..receive a adjustment.

You doing like nothing has been done about , theopposite is the case i wish other things would receive the same attention and care like the..."grind"... 

I agree with Darth the "grind" has been addressed numerous times.  It's been one of the most mentioned recurring "fixes" in the patch notes since release.

Although to be fair...it must then be conceded that the side that has argued that the grind was an issue since launch... is/was correct. 

If the "grind" has to be addressed as many times as it has... the Devs obviously believe it to be an issue.  Otherwise, why does it keep coming up again, and again?

The side that says the "grind" is not a problem seems to be at odds with the Devs themselves.  The Devs keep tinkering with the "grind", so the Devs must believe it is still a problem. 

It's a whole other debate as to whether the fixes the Devs have used against the "grind" have been successful.   But for those that say the Devs have done nothing, or that the "grind" isn't an issue... well, the Devs disagree. 

Originally posted by xochipilli

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by xochipilli

so this s the type of colunist we have in mmorpg ? lol

one that says its right to sell XP and mounts for items, aswell as special content ?

if it was my company that dude would be fired for sure..........

its a shame....

You might not realize it but a columnist usually creates pieces, editorials, that are based on opinion. There could be columnists that encompass two diverse view points in an organization or someone who just has a particular take on a subject, states that opinion and then invites discussion.

 

 well i dont think this s turned to invite for discussion based that such discusion were made already many times and cash shop aint new in mmo world..and i ll tell u why i think this with an exemple nothing to do with MMO lol.. :

 

in the CONTRY A has WEATHER A and with this weather they can grow a lot of APPLE and then the population from this country loves to eat APPLE...but at some year the weather changed to WEATHER B and the apple production was very low coz of this new weather BUT the orange production was VERY HIGH ...... but in this country people doesnt like much of orange and all the orange started to ROT in the shelves of the supermarket..... and the developers started to loose a little of their big cash....and that s no good so in the next day they announced in TV a new research that proofed that the WEATHER B s no good for ur breathing system and so on the population has to eat MORE ORANGE coz orange helps to prevent such problems... in the following week the stock of orange got to dust and all the big owners of farmers could feel reliefed that their budge wont go down a little....

you got it you got it ? :D

and everytime the CASH SHOP is linked with the WORD MMORPG more they are fooling us to acept such attitude... and what we ll see s a future that ALL MMORPG will have a darn CASH SHOP...the MMORPG scene s not so bright nowadays but it s still fun.... RPGs progression s based on TIME not on MONEY........doenst matter if its PVP or not...the day CASH SHOP  become common and acepted by 100 % of  the players in MMORPGS it means R-ole P-laying G-ames doesnt exist anymore...

Well at least that OPINION of yours was a bit more in depth and made a bit more sense.  Not just the "Off with his head!!!" rant before.  

That being said... it's still just your OPINION.  Just because you think Cash Shops = Death of RPG... doesn't automatically make it an absolute truth.  Thanks though for the OPINION.  

Originally posted by Rockgod99

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by Rockgod99
I was there also and watch as both games changed for the worst because of AAA greed. That doesn't matter because it's 2010 and today noone is making a sandbox that's even close to being AAA (backed) developer. It's all Indy created and requires investment by it's playerbase so that the game can become good over time. Problem is today's community doesn't get that. They wish and hope for a Blizzard or Turbine sandbox lol. Sorry folks... Back those Indy developers through the first rough couple of years and you may get the next Eve. Don't expect the big boys to give you one. Won't happen because the masses don't want it.

And that is a valid opinion.

 

What I was exposing were these quotes:

"we have never had a AAA sandbox and never will".

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3822723#3822723

 

"That's the end result of no AAA developer making a sandbox."

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3825523#3825523

 

Those are dishonest statements.  When you try to use revisionist history to present a statement as fact... well, here we are.  

UO and SWG were AAA sandbox titles when they were released.  I've shown links that I believe prove that to be true.  Sure, a person can disregard the fact that EA owned UO fully 5 years before it was released, or that SWG was announced from the seemingly sure-fire trilogy of LucasArts, SoE, and Verant that many predicted to make success guaranteed.

 

So when you use statements like the above... expect to get called on it. 

Bro... Who gives a shit? Did you just win the Internet? What does any of that have to do with why the masses won't play sandbox games? Stick to the op brother and stop nitpicking to make yourself feel special.

 

No need to resort to personal attacks.  If you don't like people critiquing your opinions or calling you out when you are not telling the truth... you probably should avoid posting in the first place.  

Originally posted by Anubisan

 

<snipped> 

Read above... Good stuff!!! 

 <snipped>

Well said, Anubisan.

 I think you hit it pretty much on the head on why Sandbox MMOs have lower populations than non-Sandbox MMOs.

Originally posted by Rockgod99
I was there also and watch as both games changed for the worst because of AAA greed. That doesn't matter because it's 2010 and today noone is making a sandbox that's even close to being AAA (backed) developer. It's all Indy created and requires investment by it's playerbase so that the game can become good over time. Problem is today's community doesn't get that. They wish and hope for a Blizzard or Turbine sandbox lol. Sorry folks... Back those Indy developers through the first rough couple of years and you may get the next Eve. Don't expect the big boys to give you one. Won't happen because the masses don't want it.

And that is a valid opinion.

What I was exposing were these quotes:

"we have never had a AAA sandbox and never will".

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3822723#3822723

"That's the end result of no AAA developer making a sandbox."

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3825523#3825523

Those are dishonest statements.  When you try to use revisionist history to present a statement as fact... well, here we are.  

UO and SWG were AAA sandbox titles when they were released.  I've shown links that I believe prove that to be true.  Sure, a person can disregard the fact that EA owned UO fully 5 years before it was released, or that SWG was announced from the seemingly sure-fire trilogy of LucasArts, SoE, and Verant that many predicted to make success guaranteed.

So when you use statements like the above... expect to get called on it. 

Originally posted by Rockgod99
All AAA means is money. Financal backing in surplus so someone could refine and polish their vision. Both Swg and UO were without that at first. Later on either through acquisition or a much more powerful studio stepped in both games while lead by extremely talented developers very much had a Indy way of doing things. Baiscally making a game for the love of it and not just changing their vision on a dime for more cash like AAAs do.

Heh... that's quite a bit different from your first statement.  

I'll still stick by my original statements.  UO and SWG had the backing of the biggest names in MMO gaming at the time they were developed and released.

UO and it's developers were some of the biggest names in the industry and were backed by EA fully 5 years before the game was released.

SWG and it's developers were the king of the hill when it was being developed.  They were the people behind the hugely successful EverQuest.   They were backed and eventually purchased by SoE.  They were produced by LucasArts.  All of which were the biggest names available at the time.

To try and use revisionist history now and say that those two games were "indy" or didn't have the money needed to make them AAA games... heh, o.k.  I was there, I know better. 

Originally posted by Thomas2006

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by Rockgod99
Ultima Online was created by Origin Systems and Swg by Verant Interactive both were Indy development houses. Origin was acquired by EA later on and SoE only published Swg at first before fully taking over and destroying that game. Funny how both games were virtually stripped of what they originally were once EA and SoE took over. Again we have never had a AAA sandbox and never will

Ultima Online (UO)...  released on September 24, 1997

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Online

 

In September 1992, Electronic Arts acquired the company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_Systems

 

Not exactly what you would call  "acquired by EA later on"

 

 

Also Verant had EverQuest under their belt as a previous MMO... I think most of us have heard of the little MMO called EverQuest.    

Actually LucasArts was the publisher for SWG... not SoE.

http://www.lucasarts.com/company/release/news20000316.html

 

Read the above News Release from 2000 about SWG.  It's pretty tough to sell that as an "Indy" development.  

Origin Systems was a indie development house?  LOL  That part made me laugh ALOT 

Origin Systems was founded by some vets of a gaming industry. Both Robert and Richard had been creating / working on RPGs long before being a founding member of Origin Systems. That alone pushs the studio above a indie status.

Yeah, a bit of revisionist history going on for those two MMOs.

It'll be interesting to see the take after I've provided some more links with my edit in the above post.  

UO and SWG were developed and produced by the biggest players in the MMO universe at the time.  To try and say they were "indy" is at best naive.  

Originally posted by Rockgod99
Ultima Online was created by Origin Systems and Swg by Verant Interactive both were Indy development houses. Origin was acquired by EA later on and SoE only published Swg at first before fully taking over and destroying that game. Funny how both games were virtually stripped of what they originally were once EA and SoE took over. Again we have never had a AAA sandbox and never will

Ultima Online (UO)...  released on September 24, 1997

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Online

In September 1992, Electronic Arts acquired the company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_Systems

Not exactly what you would call  "acquired by EA later on"

Also Verant had EverQuest under their belt as a previous MMO... I think most of us have heard of the little MMO called EverQuest.    

Actually LucasArts was the publisher for SWG... not SoE.

http://www.lucasarts.com/company/release/news20000316.html

Read the above News Release from 2000 about SWG.  It's pretty tough to sell that as an "Indy" development.  

These links are another good refresher for reference when the Release of SWG was formally announced:

http://www.lucasarts.com/company/release/news20021220.html

http://www.lucasarts.com/company/release/news20030411.html

Notice that even before Release that Verant had been acquired/folded into SoE.

 Again, if you believe that SWG was a sandbox game at Release... you have to admit it was Developed/Produced by AAA organizations.  It had funding galore... it had the premiere development/production houses at the time.  

You are correct though... SoE did kill it with the CU/NGE.  

Originally posted by Rockgod99

Originally posted by caalem

I'd say I'm about as old timer as you can get and sandboxes are pretty shit to me.

 

Not because of the gameplay, but because most of them released nowhere near finished and promise things that never happen.

 

Only Indy developers make sandbox games and all are underfunded and have idiot PR people over hyping their products.

SWG wasn't sandbox at release?  Ultima Online isn't a sandbox?

You can't get much bigger or "NON-indy" than SoE and EA.

I agree with caalem.  

The vast majority of sandbox MMOs are released way too early and fail to deliver on the features that their fans were expecting to be present at release.  Although you could make the same statement about non-sandbox MMOs as well.  

It's a problem with MMOs in general, not just sandbox MMOs... they are released before they should be.  They always take more money and more time than the Devs. anticipate.  Hence the early release... there seem to be few exceptions.  

These are dead... 

Roma Victor (soon to be shut down)

Shadowbane

Dark and Light

SWG (Original)

These are still kicking... and perhaps will succeed, time will tell.

DarkFall

Mortal Online

Saga of Ryzom

Wurm Online

Istaria/Horizons (I think this game is still alive...)

These are the successes of the Sandbox MMO genre.

Ultima Online 

EvE

Second Life

Runescape

These are "hybrid" MMOs, but have sandbox qualitites.

Asheron's Call

Fallen Earth

SWG (current)

(And yes... the above are in my opinion).  

Originally posted by Nizur

Nice, informative update. Eases my anxiety a bit on what all is being done and why there are repeated delays.

I agree.

Kudos to Tasos for an informative update.

Hopefully when he says this...:

"We’ll try to do better at communicating changes like this in the future."

...he means it this time.  

Unfortunately we've all heard the "we'll try to do better at communicating" line before.  Perhaps they really will do better?  I guess we'll see how it goes.