I just tried out SWTOR for two weeks, then unsubbed. Instead of the step ahead from WoW in soloability that was hinted at, this game is a complete regression. At very low levels you run out of quests that aren't heroic, leaving the choice of either being forced into groups, or grinding low level mobs for tiny amounts of XP at a time.

Obviously the devs have no respect for solo players, nor do they even have a basic understanding of what they want.

Waiting for GW2 now.

While I agree that not everyone should gain the same rewards, I disagree that their chosen playstyle should be the deciding factor for obtaining said rewards. Whether a player chooses PvP, group PvE, or solo PvE, they should be able to reach the highest level of effectiveness at their given playstyle. If rewards given for group PvE are more effective at solo PvE or PvP, the devs have effectively invalidated those playstyles.

This whole "social" arguement is a fallacious one brought forward by raiders who want a steady supply of players who are forced into grouping with them by game mechanics.

The reality is those raiders are predominantly extraverts and the soloers they are trying to force into groups are predominantly introverts. Introverts by their very nature prefer to avoid social situations, since they draw more energy from solitary pursuits. One of those pursuits they enjoy disproportionately to the general populace is the use of computers, which is why their personality trait is the predominant one in MMORPG's.

The problems begin when extraverts (raiders) try to get introverts (soloers) to group with them, and are rejected. Since they're extraverts, they have a problem understanding why someone wouldn't want to group with them, so they resort to asking questions like "why are people antisocial?", instead of just accepting that theirs isn't the only personality trait that is valid, and moving on from there. 

Once GW2 releases solo players will for the first time have access to a viable endgame progression path in a top tier MMO. That it took so long is a sad testament to the cluelessness of many devs over the years when it comes to recognizing the needs of their playerbase.

Many of their own studies have surely demonstrated to them that the solo playstyle was the most populous, yet they steadfastly ignored the data when they continued to design new games. Did they think the rising number of solo players were going to continue to be satisfied with game design that sentenced them to second class citizenship forever...if so, they were obviously wrong.

I would like to see a companion system that's fully functional, where solo players can add, equip, upgrade, and level  one, or multiple companion characters to fill groups as they see fit. If you could create and level your own companions from scratch like you do your main and alts, all the better.

In the end it's about options, and the devs need to give players the ability to completely progress their characters in as many ways as possible. If more choose to do so solo, then so be it.

Originally posted by Unlight

As far as I know, nothing is preventing you from grouping up in so-called solo-centric games, so why is it such a bother that many choose to forego the pleasure of your company?  You're still free to gather together your gaggle and go off romping.  Why is it so difficult for some to understand that some of us have neither the need nor the inclination to be accompanied by someone else continuously during their online time?.....

The problem is they're extraverts, and as such they have a hard time taking no for an answer when it comes to grouping. Unfortunately, the MMO genre has conditioned extraverts to believe that their personality trait is the only valid one, hence their self entitled, belligerent behaviour towards the introverts who are frequently the target of their abuse.

Guild Wars 2 seems to have fixed the gear disparity problem for solo players:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview?page=3

"Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot - will we be farming bosses?

Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours...."  

Apparantly their dynamic events can be completed by soloers, but I suspect the optional/informal nature of that kind of grouping structure will appeal to them enough to give a try.

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by itgrowls

Have you played Cata? Its the same old model day in day out, 5 man dungeons and raids. That's called group only content. Crafting, harvesting, dailes, story-line quests are solo activites but yield nothing for the player to handle elite end game mobs. Here's a run down on WoW gathered from WoWhead (which i followed to keep up with what the game is still doing to this day) and info from friends who still play.

Why do you feel the need to solo elite mobs? A mob that is designed for group encounters should not be soloable.

Those elite mobs are the next level of challenge, once you've gone through everything else. If those mobs are designed specifically for group encounters (which is debatable, since you can engage them solo), then they should also design mobs specifically for solo encounters.

All playstyles should have viable paths of progression at end game. Solo players do not have that at this point.

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by Beartosser

They're boring at the top because there's no content for solo players once you get there.

The devs should be thankful there are solo players out there who are willing to take their time during the levelling process, otherwise they'd have less subscriptions to draw from.

Raiders should be thankful for the subsidy.

What games are you playing that have no content for solo players at max level? Every MMO I have ever played has more content for the pure soloist than anything else. Crafting, harvesting, dailies, story-line quests...all solo activities. You're typical MMO might have 5 to 10 group oriented dungeons per expansion but the soloer will have hundreds if not thousands of quests. So far Cataclysm has produced an outrageous 7 new five-man dungeons and 5 new raid dungeons.

Quests, crafting, gathering, and dailies are for everyone, and yield gear that is ineffective against high level mobs, when compared against what can be acquired in the simplest of raids. In seven years WoW has yet to introduce a single solo dungeon, that's an extremely poor return for soloists when you consider the hundreds of millions they've lined Blizzards pockets with.

They're boring at the top because there's no content for solo players once you get there.

The devs should be thankful there are solo players out there who are willing to take their time during the levelling process, otherwise they'd have less subscriptions to draw from.

Raiders should be thankful for the subsidy.

Originally posted by ArChWind

....Are SPOGs the future of the genre....

One can only hope so, given that players who prefer to solo MMO's are continually shortchanged on content, progression, and recognition at end game.

Current MMO's draw solo players in by providing levelling content, but are unable to retain them when they reach the cap and uncover the ruse.

In the end, the only way for game developers to retain the largest segment (soloers) of their playerbase is to provide them with the content that the other playstyles have completely taken for granted.

If that can only be done with a SPOG, then so be it.

The go to game for solo players in the near future is Guild Wars 2.

At end game we will be able to acquire gear that is equal statistically to that which is acquired by groupers, and there will even be goals that we can acheive and receive recognition for such as for soloing dungeons.

The glass ceiling is about to be broken, the previously entitled will be miffed about that, but like the men who were caught unawares by the nineteenth amendment, they will eventually learn that their rights are no more important than the rights of others, even if by recognizing such rights, their own are somewhat dilluted.

Originally posted by WSIMike

You do not go into a vegan restaurant and start demanding more meat on the menu because "you're a paying customer and it's your right to receive the service you want". You use your head and go to a restaurant that serves what you're looking for in the first place... like, say, a steak house.

Similarly, if you're a fan of soloing, you do not go into a MMO with group-centric tactics and start demanding they make it more soloable because *you* chose to play it. You use your head, do the research and find a MMO that is more geared toward solo-play.

If you're a fan of PvP, you do not go into a MMO that is decidedly PvE and start demanding they add PvP because *you* chose to play it. You use your head, do some research and find a MMO that is more focused on PvP.

All this should be common-sense. Sadly, it isn't for a lot of people.

Consider message boards like this as community meeting places where restaurant patrons discuss the types of restaurants they'd like to see built in their neighbourhood. At the moment, there are dozens of places that serve chinese food to one segment of the community, and there is another segment that wants to be able to buy pizza, but there are currently no pizza restaurants.

Unfortunately, every time the pizza lovers try to bring up the fact that there are no pizza restaurants, the chinese food lovers scream loudly that all restaurants are currently chinese food restaurants, therefore all future restaurants should be as well.

When questioned about the fairness of such a statement, chinese food patrons claim if pizza restaurants are allowed to be built, many of their fellow patrons will start eating there instead, thereby making it more likely that the chinese restaurants will have a harder time staying in business.

In the meantime, large restaurant chains have conducted numerous consumer surveys that have consistently yeilded the same results: the majority of their consumers want to be able to eat pizza.

Common sense economics will dictate what happens next.

To get to the heart of the group play vs. solo play debate, one must first delve into the personality traits of extroversion and introversion.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introvert

"...An extroverted person is likely to enjoy time spent with people and find less reward in time spent alone. They tend to be energized when around other people, and they are more prone to boredom when they are by themselves..."

"...Introverts tend to be more reserved and less outspoken in large groups. They often take pleasure in solitary activities such as reading, writing, music, drawing, tinkering, playing video games, watching movies and plays, and using computers..."

"...Introverts are easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation from social gatherings and engagement..."

I bring this up since as an introvert, I feel solo players are completely misunderstood by group players. For example the notion that solo players avoid large groups because they're either unskilled or lazy just flies in the face of reality. Personality traits don't come with switches that you can just turn on and off whenever they're convenient, they represent who you are.

I understand extroverts hate it when us introverts turn down their group requests, but believe me, you guys are far more annoying to us than we could ever be to you, just by our very natures.

The competitor will be both SWTOR and GW2.

If BioWare and ArenaNet deliver the games they promise, they could be an interesting one-two punch to WoW. SWTOR will scoop away some of the people looking for an A class sci fi MMO, Star Wars fans, and raiders. GW2 on the other hand will appeal more to those who like fantasy MMO's, casuals, and soloers.

I don't think it will be anywhere near a death blow to WoW. The effect will be most evident in North America, where WoW currently has around 3 million subscribers. I could see that number dropping to 2, with SWTOR and GW2 both garnering 1+.

As you can see by adding up the numbers of all 3, I don't think it will be a zero sum gain. SWTOR and GW2 will both attract new players to the genre, moreso with SWTOR due to the public visibility of the Star Wars IP and BioWare's stellar reputation in RPG's.

From what I can see, the best choice for solo players in the near future is Guild Wars 2.

Solo players will be able to jump in and out of Dynamic Events, and if they contribute in a meaningful way they will receive gold and kharma as a reward. No formal grouping is required in the events, and players will be able to purchase high end gear using the two as currency.

There will be dungeons, but they will be 5 mans, and the gear you acquire within those will be statistically similar to what you can garner from doing events, but will be an aesthetic  upgrade.

The dynamic events will scale from 1 to 100+ players, so there will be a chance to solo some, although one shouldn't expect to, since anyone is free to jump in and help at any given moment.

I think the game currently under development that will appeal to the widest segment of potential MMO players will be Guild Wars 2. Their dynamic event system as described seems to be the answer for prayers on both sides of the solo vs. group dilemna.

Solo players will finally have an MMO where they can acheive at the highest level. Sure, they will have to participate in varying scales of PvE battles, including large scale ones on occasion, but they will be free to jump in or out without formally grouping up, and the rewards for their participation will be decided by the AI, not by a raid leader or guild master who may choose to exclude the solo player or non guildy from the rewards.

Groupers will have an MMO where players aren't afraid to pitch in and help each other, since everyone who does help in a meaningful way will be rewarded for doing so. Additionally, there will be 5 man dungeons that also reward players with the highest level gear, but will also give groupers exclusive access to gear that while similar in stats, is more stylish in appearance that the event gear. This would give groupers the recognition they seek for their endeavours, while at the same time allowing solo players to reach the plateau in terms of stats.

The way I see it, the only players such a system won't appeal to are those on the far edges of either spectrum, like soloers who don't want to encounter anybody in game while progressing their character, or groupers who want all players to be forced into formal grouping arrangements, and of course be in complete control of the dispersal of rewards obtained via said groups.

Many of the posters on this thread are blending solo with casual when in reality there is no correlation between the two. A player who prefers to solo is in reality no more likely to be a casual player than a grouper is.

Casual soloers, hardcore soloers, and casual groupers have all campaigned for greater inclusivity in MMO's, but that is more a result of battling a common enemy than it is the formation of a single cohesive category.

In games like WoW, casual groupers have made strides towards gear and content accessibility on a par with hardcore groupers (aka raiders), but soloers of both stripes are still held back by the same glass ceiling.

Now, it appears GW2 may be the MMO that finally breaks the disparity and allows all players who seek to acheive to do so. If that happens, groupers will just have to grin and bear it, just like men did when women got the vote. Equality comes at a price, but in the end, it's one well worth paying.

"One of the things we really had to look at is how people play the game. If you look at studies, you'll find that even though a person says they're playing a game a particular way, about 40% of people in MMOs play by themselves."

Daniel Erickson



 

The Dynamic Event System in Guild Wars 2 provides an end game for everyone, solo players included.