Originally posted by Umbral

Originally posted by lugal

 

There are far fewer gays/lesbians than you assume.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070514213700AAL4Jhk 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_the_world_is_gay

http://www.avert.org/gay-people.htm

 

Percentage is no more than 5%. So, of that percentage, that would make about 1 to less than 1% of gamers are gay. So, do you think its cost effective to make a game that would only cater to no more than 1% of a target audience? No, not when you have other more important things to code.

Keep sex out of MMO's is A better option. Having a in game roleplay ability to marry any gender would be easy to do, SWG had something along those lines.

 

You really belive only 5% is homosexual? Forget about statistics and use your own life experience, do you really belive only 5%?

A lot of people hide bi/homosexual desires from others and from themselves.

Sex is present in MMOs and in everything with  human touch, there is sex in quests, armors, emotes, voice chat  and texts, even some creatures are sexual.

There are heterosexual expressions all over MMOs, why not a bit of homosexualism too?

If you think sex in MMOs is equal to cybering, you should pay more atention to details.

 

...

Wow, did you even think before you posted this? So, just becuz the census data doesnt show that gays are 10% of the population you refuse to accept it. Wow. Thats as bad as a evangilical refusing to believe that the earth is millions of years old after seeing study after study of peer reviewed science.

Lets go with life experience then, in my whole family, I have only 1 gay person in it. In my company, counting all the people in the 3 buildings, only 1 gay person. Going thru high school, I knew only 1 gay person that attended and 1 who came out fo the closet a few years later after a friend found his stash of gay porn. Then while in the Army, none. In college, had none in my classes.

So yeah, no more than 5% seems about right to me, a bit high for my sample though.

Originally posted by Vrazule

Originally posted by Nergle

You know,  I don't have anything with homosexuality and it's members playing in a MMO but, what I do have a problem with is a "forced" homosexuality placed in a MMO when not everyone lives that life style.

 

Its like taking a specific religion in a MMO and saying "hey except it.", which would be MMO suicide.

I say if you want homosexuality in the game and just feel a need to have it around you, start a homo sexual guild of like minded individuals.

 

 

Like it stated in the post above yours, which you obiously didn't read.  We are tired of hetero themes being forced on us in games and they ARE contantly in our face.  If you don't want homosexual themes, then it goes to say there shouldn't be any heterosexual either.  Bioware is famous for having romance themes in their games and it would really be nice if they accepted and catered to others along with those of the hetero persuasion.  One out of ten people are gay or bisexual.  That is a large percentage of the population and we deserve to be treated with respect and if a game is going to shove heterosexual themes down our throats, then they should include gay ones too.

There are far fewer gays/lesbians than you assume.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070514213700AAL4Jhk 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_the_world_is_gay

http://www.avert.org/gay-people.htm

Percentage is no more than 5%. So, of that percentage, that would make about 1 to less than 1% of gamers are gay. So, do you think its cost effective to make a game that would only cater to no more than 1% of a target audience? No, not when you have other more important things to code.

Keep sex out of MMO's is A better option. Having a in game roleplay ability to marry any gender would be easy to do, SWG had something along those lines.

Originally posted by trancejeremy

Good luck with that, I never saw any recruitment talk in game, so I tried the official forums.  Got 1 reply in a month (and that was from a role-playing guild, which I'm not into). Never have found a guild. 

 

It's a very insular game, people don't like strangers.

Sounds like you are the one with the issue. Try being polite to others, grouping for quests, not stealing nodes.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by DeaconX

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=26291

I believe it all started with this thread.  Contrats Elikal, they made a Penny Arcade comic due to your post lol

 

*falls over* OMG. Am I famous now? Maybe I can start selling autographs? XD

Seriously, this SO went out of hands. I mean, for me the issue is important. I didnt start a thread here, since the response of Bioware was fast and reasonable.

On a very personal note, I really don't get it why straights have such difficulties just to let us be. I mean, seriously, I am a pretty normal guy like anyone. It's not that I am in any way remarkable, or any gay person I know is. What so many make a fuzz of it... its beyond me. Its like saying peaches were evil, only all other fruits and alright. I just dont get it.

I guess for Bioware its a PR disaster, and that is unfortunate. I dont understand it; when Bliizzard had it's gay/lesbian issue with WOW, I thought other companies would handle it different. There are many gay character in trivial culture, games, TV shows, comics... its 2009! And in none of them it is any issue. Heck, in the 1992 published Ultima VII you had gay romance options! In Sims 2 it exists and none cares.

Maybe living in a city with a gay mayor, and none cares a drat, I am surprised at the explosion it caused. Dozens of internet mags reported about this. Oh well... guess there goes my hope for a beta invite. ;)

Seriously, Bioware solved it reasonable. So far no more hard feelings from me towards them.

 

I just wish straight people would understand a bit more why this is of importance to us. I heard so many telling me not to bring it to a game and that it doesnt belong to games. No? Never seen straights being openly straight in MMOs?

The worst and most hilarious part however wasn't Bioware - they handled it quickly and reasonable enough for my taste - it was the reaction of those who disagreed. The vast majority of those who attacked me, claimed that I brought politics into a game and that I brought sexual themes into a game, which did not belong to gaming.

Now - THAT was new to me. I mean, if you ever played a MMO, or any game, there hardly is any where straight NPCs or player characters hide their STRAIGHT sexual orientation. They date, flirt, love and express their straight sexuality everywhere. It's not that we try to bring something alien or new to this topic. Love, romances, relationship and sexual topics and filling games! So for me it was just the question, why can't we when straight people show the sexual preference all the time? It is a grim echo of days when White people wanted places where no Black people were allowed. Some white-protestant-straight-males just want to keep games "gay-free-zones". But to what ridiculous lengths people were going to justify their prejudices and their hate.... claiming we brought "dirty topics" to games, and they want to keep it "for kids". Now I dont know how many times people in Goldshire in WOW have seen straight couples laying in one of the beds there. It's not that we were asking for a Dark Room or a Sling hanging in the back room of every Star Wars cantina!

How can you make a Role Playing Game with the idea of a social community and delete ALL notions of romance options out? I understand not everyone wants to follow it; some just want to "kill stuff". Fine. But a lot of straight people act VERY outed. Which is also fine. But when you can, why can't we??
 

 

This is so straight...

THe problem people have with your agenda is that its forcing your sexualality on others. Sure, everything  in games is geared towards straight, thats for a reason. 99% of the players live a straight lifestyle. Even the gay members of my WoW guild dont want to be known only for thier personal choice. Sex doesnt belong in a MMO of this type.

Now, if you want to have a guild for gays, by all means do it. Hope its more succesful than most. But identifiying yourself by your sexual preference isnt a good thing, try identifying yourself by your deeds. I dont care nor do I want to know what you like, most gamers feel this way. We play the games to forget real life, not be reminded that I'm a friggin bigot for not liking the guy who calls himself "Rainbowpally" due to his name.

Delete the hunter. Nearly a third of the game players are hunter. You will have trouble getting groups to do fellowship quests. If you get to Moria, even harder to find groups who want a hunter when they got a zillion to choose from. Roll a Captain and never worry about finding groups. PLus being able to heal yourself makes soling a ton easier.

I have a 60 hunter myself, but find myself sitting out of raids due to being a hunter. Whatever you choose, have fun.

No pvp means they better have alot of pve content besides grinding. THey need to have non scripted events  created by GM/Dev's and have a good story. WIthout those, the pve will be stale and the game will be nothing more than niche.

PVP is a sure fire way to give players something to do besides just endgame raiding. AS we all know, doing the same thing over and over caused burnout and then canceled accounts.

From what my friends have gone thru, I think the 72 hour suspension is standard practice. I think they do it so they can review the logs and restore everything without conflict.

Here is an idea, get some skill and learn to play the game using your brain to figure out how to beat others and bosses.

One of the best pvpers i played with, had zero addons. He put to memory all the animations for each skill and reacted faster than those who waited for thier addons to warn them. he also knew what sets of armor were for each class. All skill.

Originally posted by niceguy3978

What is the fee for the competition?  Is it the 'event passes" that were mentioned?  I don't know anything about it, that's why I'm asking.  I haven't subscribed to SWG for a couple years yet I have several packs of TCG as vet rewards (which is ironic given the fact that I haven't been a vet for a while).  Do you have to purchase more packs to be able to enter a tournament and that is why its fee based? or is it those 10 "event passes" whatever the heck they are?  I'm not trying to get people riled up, I'm just curious about what would make it illegal in those states other than what the previous poster said about the red tape inherent in most intra-continental competitions.

THe problem the states like Nevada have is that they regulate games of chance, not skill. The TCG appears to be about luck to gain the prizes, a game of skill would be chess or table top Warhammer. You buy a pack, and if you get the right card, you get a prize. If not, you keep buying to get a prize. Which is a  problem since you are required to pay a fee to enter and its all chance. Maybe the odds of winning are to low for Nevada and the other states, so they wont alow it. Or that SOE wont play by Nevada gaming laws and pay the associated taxes. Most of this is speculation, hard facts a not available to us. Now, if somebody were to ask a state gaming official from Nevada why its not allowed, then were would have some facts.

The Horde are not evil nor the bad guys. Sheesh, at least play the RTS games to learn about the lore. THe reason so many people play alli over horde is the cuteness factor.  THere were no cute races till TBC. Then you see a slow balanceing of the populations after that.

Originally posted by niceguy3978

When did they outlaw gambling in Nevada?

 

Its no illegal if they follow Nevada Gaming laws. basically, they need to admit its gambling then they have to follow a specific odds of winning that the state inposes and pay taxes. TO get around that, the TCG is not available in that state.

Originally posted by Vinterblot

Well, I can't answer your ToS Questions, but I can answer the rest...

Yes, the memory leaks are gone.

Yes, the game is fixed and very fun to level.

Now, I put emphasis on level because I rushed a Demonologist on Wiccana from 1-80 in a Week and a Half. About a day after 80 I was already bored. The professions are still - meh.

It's quite hard to find a group on Wiccana (the most populated PvE Server) for level 80 Instances. I searched for about 3 hours tonight for Xiba/Onyx groups (Popular level 80 Instances) and could not find any.

The only real thing I have left to do in-game is Gather resources, which, is not what I like to do.

In my opinion, if you like to level characters and alt-whore, then it's a fun game. If you did like I did, and rush a character to End-Game... well, you will be dissapointed.

Your main issue is that you are on a pve server. The pvp servers have better populations and more active raiding. Been that way since launch.

Do not want WoW pvp.

I played WoW prior to battlegrounds. It was a ton of fun. City raids all the time. THen the BG's come out. No more world pvp. No more REAL PVP. battlegrounds are large group duels to farm. No penalties either.

Originally posted by orionite

Originally posted by lugal 

I played at launch. Back when city raids happened daily. Every town and city got hit at least once a day. The only time anybody got killed in the safe areas, was when they got themselves flagged for pvp. That mechanic was in the game from beta. That leads me to believe that you did something you didnt know would get you flagged, or you are fibbing. Rezing flagged has been a complaint for a long time. Easy self fix was to run to another GY to rez or log into another toon.

Gankers isnt a coward, its the person who whines on a forum and then rerolls on a carebear server instead of  'manning up' and getting some payback. Blaming others for your poor choice in game is pretty pathetic. You have a victim mentality, as do many of the haters here do. They are unwilling to accpet the consequences of thier actions and chioces. IE: I hate pvp, but I will roll on a pvp server then cry about being pvp'd.

I'm gald you made the right choice in moving to a pve server. For I had to deal with the cowards first hand in my guild. Me or others are getting camped, yet they wont lift a finger to come help. Thier precious rep grind of farming is to important than helping your guildmates. Then they cry the loudest when its them getting camped. And if nobody comes, they threaten to /gquit then rant abuot it on the guild forums.

lugal, you can repeat the same drivel over and over again, it doesn't make it any better. What you obviously can't get into your head is that (some) people LIKE to play on PvP because they like the challenge, the danger, whatever. What that however does not equate to is being ganked repeatedly (i.e. consecutively killed by a  player with a much higher level or a group of players), corpse-camped to the point when the only thing you can do is exit the game and hope that when you log back on an hour later, that necrophiliac a-hole has moved on to give his tough love to some other poor lowbie or being followed by another player who swoops in to loot your kills, farms the resource nodes you just cleared etc.

I detest people who use the "I do it because I can" line of reasoning to rationalize harrassing and bullying others. Just because it is technically possible, doesn't make it morally right. This goes for real life as well. However, if you behave rudely to a real person, that person will likely find a way get rid of you, which is sometimes impossible in game.

In my experience 'gankers' are almost always what could be considered hardcore players. They know the mechanics of the game very well, the invest a more than average amount of time and consequently have great gear. Killing lower level players is no challange for them. None at all. Thus I fail to see what they accomplish by doing it, other than making someone else's life miserable.

Personally, I accept that I can get killed at any time while in enemy or contested territory. I go there at my own risk. However, if I consider corpse-camping to be harassment in most cases. I also realize that Blizzard does not! Of course it is much easier to 'legalize' this behaviour than to police it. (See WoW - Terms of Use 10C).

Again, the 'law' is on your side. Morality, however, imho is not.

 

So, others who accept the consequences of rolling on a pvp server should be at fault when somebody who doesnt and gets bvtt hurt about being pvp'd? I repeat the drivel cuz the blame also belongs to the idiot who rolls on a pvp server yet cant take it.

People need to stop blaming others for actions they facilitated. Yeah, camping is lame and stupid. have I done it, heck yeah. Will I do it again, more likely than the stimulas saving the economy. The point is, ganking takes 2. You are at fault as much as the ganker. Now, you play a MMO and have no guild or friends cuz you want to play "solo", good luck with pvp. Everytime I was in trouble, I had friends to call on. I'd be willing to bet  that many of the whinners and cowards have a lack of interpersonal skills that inhibits thier ability to make friends in an MMO.

Does ganking have a place in a RP server, hell yeah. I played on a pvp RP server in AoC. The guild had a no camping/ganking rule. The exception was for guilds we were at war with or people who had NON RP NAMES. 

Gank away pvpers, the more they whine, the better we feel.

Originally posted by Netspook

Originally posted by lugal

Originally posted by Capernicus

I may be completely wrong here and welcome correction if so, but to the best of my knowledge all that ganking serves to do is make people who have been ganked not want to play.  So then there are fewer people in game than there could be and over time no one except gankers ganking each other. then the game slowly dies away and finally gone all together. I think there are even a few well known examples of this too??? or am i wrong there?.

 

Then using your retard logic, then why are all the pvp servers in WOW not low pop?

Hell, my old server was a day server with the world first Nefarian kill and the first North American Cthun kill.

The people who cry abut being pvp'd, are the ones at fault, not the person ganking. The ganker is using the game mechanics as the developers intended. or do developers intend for cowards and crybabies to roll on pvp servers. 

 

Intended?

It's a good while since I rolled a toon on a WoW PvP server, I gave quickly up the single time I tried that. This was pre-TBC, and I have no idea if rules are changed, if not they should be, cause this is what happened:

At lvl 5 I left the starting area in Elwynn, and almost immediately after I came through the gate, some high-lvl horde oneshot me. Followed by a /spit. I ran back to my corpse, and immediately after I rezz'd -> oneshot + /spit. Again and again. It soon became very clear that there were several horde players, probably at max lvl (60 then) ganking everyone they could find.

And this is "as the developers intended"?

I've had similar experiences in other games. The result is that I will never ever again roll a character on a PvP server in a PvE game.

You talk about "cowards" and "crybabies" - the only cowards are the gankers. They're the ones that only dares to fight players with no chance to put up any resistance, and would probably wet their pants as soon as an equal opponent showed his face a mile away, and quickly hs back home.

I played at launch. Back when city raids happened daily. Every town and city got hit at least once a day. The only time anybody got killed in the safe areas, was when they got themselves flagged for pvp. That mechanic was in the game from beta. That leads me to believe that you did something you didnt know would get you flagged, or you are fibbing. Rezing flagged has been a complaint for a long time. Easy self fix was to run to another GY to rez or log into another toon.

Gankers isnt a coward, its the person who whines on a forum and then rerolls on a carebear server instead of  'manning up' and getting some payback. Blaming others for your poor choice in game is pretty pathetic. You have a victim mentality, as do many of the haters here do. They are unwilling to accpet the consequences of thier actions and chioces. IE: I hate pvp, but I will roll on a pvp server then cry about being pvp'd.

I'm gald you made the right choice in moving to a pve server. For I had to deal with the cowards first hand in my guild. Me or others are getting camped, yet they wont lift a finger to come help. Thier precious rep grind of farming is to important than helping your guildmates. Then they cry the loudest when its them getting camped. And if nobody comes, they threaten to /gquit then rant abuot it on the guild forums.

Originally posted by Capernicus

I think the term "gank" means something different to everyone, to me it means killing someone who has no means of stopping me and doing it for no reason other than the fact that you can. I only roll cara's on PvP servers and useually spend most of my time PvPing and never RP, PvPing is what makes MMo's fun for me. But i think that bullying people is bullying be it in real life or in game, if you can beat on some one weaker than you just because you can and then justify it to yourself, then your a bully. It can't be explained away under the geise of sportmanship, historical continuity, game lore or roleplaying, it's just plain old mean spirited malicious behaviour.

Thats fine, it your opinion. But where is you proof that 'ganking' drives off 20-30% of new players? Still waiting...

Originally posted by Capernicus

Also i have to say your quite oblivious to the fact that no developer designs their game with the idea that 5% of the players will run off 20 maybe 30% of their new customers, just because the game allows them to kill off new low leveled un experienced players.

I'll be the first to admit my language was harsh and apologize for any insult you feel was directed towards you.

I grow tired of the same metality of non pvper's who blame pvpers who play within the rules of a game.

But, what proof do you have to make your assumption that ganking/pvp drives off people? I can point to numerous pvp servers with high populations. Then also point to many pve servers with low pop.

Originally posted by Capernicus

I may be completely wrong here and welcome correction if so, but to the best of my knowledge all that ganking serves to do is make people who have been ganked not want to play.  So then there are fewer people in game than there could be and over time no one except gankers ganking each other. then the game slowly dies away and finally gone all together. I think there are even a few well known examples of this too??? or am i wrong there?.

Then using your retard logic, then why are all the pvp servers in WOW not low pop?

Hell, my old server was a day server with the world first Nefarian kill and the first North American Cthun kill.

The people who cry abut being pvp'd, are the ones at fault, not the person ganking. The ganker is using the game mechanics as the developers intended. or do developers intend for cowards and crybabies to roll on pvp servers. 

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by lugal

A new company that nobody has heard of...

Thats going to go well. Wonder how long till they got out of business and they go back to cryptic.

 

Actually, as mentioned in the article, the company is actually the larger company behind NetDevil... So not exactly a company no one's ever heard of with no MMO experience.

 

 

Netdevil? Never heard of them either. Are they a F2P/RMT game maker? IF so, that would explain why I never heard of them. A gazillion of them.

A new company that nobody has heard of...

Thats going to go well. Wonder how long till they got out of business and they go back to cryptic.