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All Posts by Vahrane

All Posts by Vahrane

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346 posts found
Originally posted by bliss14
Dinklage comes across in many of the interviews I have seen of him as being a "better than thou"  type of persona.   Not much patience for what he may perceive as being a trifle.  Perhaps voicing a video game struck him as silly, and he coasted.

You must of missed his Bennington Commencement Speech (Class of 2012). He seemed very candid when speaking there. I guess it isn't an interview, but was probably a better platform for the public to assess his personal character. 

I'm really (extremely) unsure of how you didn't enjoy original EQ, but seem to like what can arguably be seen as a knock off of it (at best an homage to EQ). The game has it's own aspects, like the ability to triple class (try bard, cleric, wizard), but as you mentioned the graphics and primarily low population sorta kill it. That's if, as you also mentioned, you can learn the incredibly dated UI. 

Still, it's neat to see someone actually mention this game! Hope you enjoy your time spent, but if you end up getting bored I'd really suggest trying EQ again. Though, to get even close to the real experience nowadays you need a good player run server (I know, I know. Anathema to anyone who mentions third party servers here).

Originally posted by DamonVile
How has the forum thing worked out so far ?

Hah! Not very well, as I'm sure you realize, but sometimes you just gotta let it out. Recall I said many of us have been searching for nearly a decade w/o an mmo to really call home. It was no exaggeration. Along that same vein, look at my post count. I've tried to keep my ranting/whining down to the bare minimum during my time here.

Originally posted by DamonVile

This thread isn't about that. This thread is about the decline of good mmos because people are too stupid to know what's good for them. Not really what you seem to be saying in your post.

If you and gamers like you want games made the way you want, you have to support the ones who are trying. That means indi developers ( unfortunatly to some ) It means you're going to have to put down the AAA graphics and go back to games that look a lot like EQ did and spend enough money playing those types of games until you perk the interest of a big developer. Asking/telling on forums is about as effective as a petition. Any idiot can sign one of those but it doesn't mean they're going to spend money once it happens.

 

I didn't start the thread and was really only responding to Nariuss comment. While I agree with alot of what the OP is trying to convey, I don't believe the problem stems from people being "too stupid to know what's good for them" and never stated anything even remotely along those lines. However, the old games/systems might have a better chance of resurgence if newer gamers had a chance to be exposed to them. From my perspective, mmorpg games of today all tend to follow, and further dilute, the WoW/EQ formula.

On a side note, it's kinda silly you assume I/others haven't tried the indie mmorpgs and found them lacking (original Darkfall comes to mind). I won't support such poorly handled, shoddily constructed products and don't believe I should have to in order to communicate my interest to prospective development teams.

Originally posted by DamonVile

the point isn't how great wow is or why it's successful .The point is everyone that disagrees with you isn't a fool. Some people do actually enjoy these games and may even be smarter than you or I. It's called a choice and people are making it. It sucks that not everyone makes the one you want but ffs pull up your big boy pants and deal with it.

Many of us have just had to "deal with" not seeing a release that really speaks to us for what is almost a decade now (since vanilla WoW). Continuing to say absolutely nothing only further diminishes any chance we have of prompting developers (read AAA developers) to pursue features and systems that were enjoyable in the past, but have since gone to way of the dodo.

Regardless, I never said people who disagree are fools, but its blatantly obvious, to me at least, that the casual focus mmo has a plethora of support which doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Why shouldn't people who prefer older games support that style of gaming, a style which many of us enjoyed?

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DamonVile
Ill never understand how people can have such a small view of the world. If I dont like it no one can is the theme behind soooo many threads here. Its pretty.....shocking.

This ^^^

Just look at the numbers. Obviously a lot more people like WoW than EQ or UO. A lot more people like LoL (and WoT) than EQ or UO.

It is not an accident that devs are moving away from the old persistant world everyone in the same zone type design.

 

Yea, and we can just totally ignore the fact that, as a medium for communication, the internet's user base vastly expanded in the years following EQ and UO, EQ having essentially laid the framework for WoW to be the runaway success it became.

At least use an anagram. For example, "Boy,  Crop Jet 9919 sure is an absurdly fun nostalgia-laden blast from the past! Someone even mentioned that Winter is coming?! Oh, whatever could that mean?" 

  Left for Dead is, in my opinion, one of the greatest games of the last few years. Prior to having played it I hadn't really gotten into shooters since original Doom, however, the team dynamic truly makes this title excel beyond the run of the mill FPS. L4D is to FPS what Portal is to the puzzle platformer genre, innovative and revitalizing. 

    You might as well just play on the server which cannot be named. If you're really looking for a Classic experience it's your best bet even with the present inconsistencies. The biggest down side is the degree to which one particular guild has monopolized all the content, mainly through socking/zerg mentality.
Originally posted by MMOrty

I have been really enjoying Vanguard, but I am a Gold Subscriber, so I don't run into things like this.

I do like that people can buy the unlocks from other players though, that will help a lot.  The one thing that I don't like is the exp. When you are a Silver Subscriber, your EXP is much slower than gold.  At first I thought this was cool, until I started playing with my son who had a free account (silver).

The way we have got around that though is just by me turning off EXP for a little while so he can catch up.  It works fine, but I think it would be nice not to have to worry about that.

    Vanguard is one of the few games with such an extensive amount of leveling content that I willingly turned my exp off in order to experience multiple different areas without being over leveled to the point of trivializing them. The Shadowhound/Unicorn mount quests alone can take you from level 21 to 30 iirc. Each to their own though.

Originally posted by rounner
Is that pic stone turrets on top of a log cabin? If there is no intelligence behind the building ruleset I cant wait to see all the dumb stuff polluting my immersion.

       They're called crenellations. They do look a bit out of place on a small wooden cabin though. I really doubt that particular dwelling is something that will end up being taken from Landmark into EQ: Next however. We can hope at least.

Originally posted by Mors.Magne.

I'm not so sure about that - On Wikipedia it says that you can purchase booster packs from Blizzard. This is buying / trading cards - we're just arguing over the finer points.

Purchasing cards via in game gold or real money is the only way to accrue cards in HS. MTG offers the ability to also buy cards via real money as well as allowing users to exchange cards directly between players for various other cards. This is not that same thing. Buying cards is not trading cards. They make this distinction explicit by Hearthstone's referral to itself as a CCG (collectible card game) rather than a TCG (trading card game).

 Ultima Online 2. Mainly just for the motion capture combat.
    I'm fairly sure most developers don't add meaningful differences between in game races because it effects PvP balance, or at the very least makes it harder to achieve balance. It's also why WoW and other mmorpg games like it don't have much gear variety, such as weapon procs, worn item effects, and clickable effects akin to jboots in EQ.
Garrosh Hellscream is my favorite. I feel he is one of the most reliable heroes after watching Total Biscuit, among others, stream Hearthstone Arena matches over the past month or so.

    I'm in the HS beta, and would have to agree that, in this instance, there is a definite advantage to be gained by getting into closed beta. Without a doubt, the Hearthstone beta is a marketing beta meant to hype the community at large rather than exhaustively test for legitimate bugs. Even prior to the last HS patch the game was extremely well polished, easily far enough along to be considered a stable, release worthy product. During my play sessions I have yet to encounter, nor have I heard of any, game breaking bugs.

    In the past two days of semi-casual play I was able to earn almost 500 in game gold which can be redeemed for 5 in game packs or arena entry 3+ times. While this small amount of gold earned doesn't give me a staggering advantage, especially since some of it was earned through non repeatable quests that everyone will have access to at launch, the gold gained solely from winning matches or completing daily quests will eventually confer a noticeable advantage over that of a beginning player.

  

     I was wondering if you could confirm or deny the existence of a reagent based magic system in SoTA? If reagents are in could you give any details e.g. rarity, how they can be obtained, do all spells use them, etc? I've looked over the small amount of information concerning the "Sigil of Magic" and the various different schools therein, but couldn't find anything about reagents thus far. I fully understand if it's not something you can discuss at this time. 

     

Originally posted by grimgryphon

No challenge. LOL.

Go quest in a level 15 region at level 10. That's pretty challenging.

Do a 5-man instance that is several levels below your character on normal, then do it again on heroic. You'll find that damn challenging.

Try leveling a character to max without ever doing a quest, dungeon, or raid.

Play the game without gear. People like Bachus are always yammering on about how skilled they are. Let's see it.

Play a character with the weakest race/class/specialization build.

Should I go on?

Point is, many players today want challenge force-fed to them. It's pure laziness.

Either that or they are incapable of being creative and making their own fun.

     It shouldn't fall to the player to find avenues of game play or strategies which outright debilitate them in order to imbue their game of choice with some form of challenge.

Originally posted by tommygunzII
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by Voqar

I'd say the problem with MMORPGs is pretty simple.  MMORPGs barely resemble MMORPGs anymore and this trend has been going on for years.

 

When you design a largely single player game with a little bit of slapped on grouping and call some of that end game and call the overall thing an MMORPG, you haven't designed an MMORPG, you've designed a glorified single player game.

 

MMORPGs originally were about challenge, danger, failure meaning something, and about grouping ALL the time.  Solo was often either not possible or so woefully inefficient that it was only something you did rarely - kind of like what grouping is for so many modern MMORPG players.

 

The group vs solo dynamic has completely reversed.  MMORPGs used to be all about grouping ALL the time - now they are about solo almost all the time.  Grouping is now optional.

 

The challenge level has completely flipped too.  It used to be hard just to do the eary levels.  It used to take months to level to cap.  Now if players aren't making 5-10 levels a day doing mundane trivial crap they spaz out and have an ADD seizure.

 

The main thing that changed is the target audience.  MMORPGs used to be created for more hardcore RPG fans - or I should say, that's what they ended up attracting - and we loved it.  Smart players who thrive on challenge and danger who enjoyed the social side of grouping a lot - and the resulting strong community.

 

For no good reason MMORPG designers decided they needed to go for "broader appeal" and appeal to "casual gamers" even though MMORPG gameplay wasn't suitable for that.  The answer of course, was to mutilate the games and genre.  Everything got easier, dumbed down, and the whole genre shifted from grouping to solo.

 

FFXIV is kind of the summation of this - it's so utterly stripped down, dumbed down, and idiotically easy that it's an insult to the intelligence and the genre.  And people love it, or so they say, just IMO, it's the wrong people.  When the soloists and people who can barely eat without getting any on the bib love your game...what does that say about your so-called MMORPG?

 

There was never anything wrong with the original MMORPG formula or games.  In fact, most of them are still chugging along and sub-based while the vast majority of MMORPGs with the solo ez-mode style of gameplay are now F2P, limp along, and are a shallow shadow of their intended greatness.  But hey, you can sell a couple million units and have a large number of players try your game that everyone considers a failure....that counts for...something...right?

 

So yeah, we look back to the older MMORPGs and wish things were different - because they are different.  MMORPGs aren't made the same any more and some of us wish SOMEBODY would make an MMORPG that was...actually an MMORPG...something with challenge, where failure means something, and where grouping is mandatory - not optional.  Soloists, you can play single player games where you belong - k, thanks (you can always hop on to twitter to spew hate for lack of public chat).

 

When all you're stuck with are bloated and glorified online single player games with minimal and optional grouping, where even when you TRY to play them like old MMORPGs, the games with their speed leveling, ultra easy content, and xp/gear welfare handed out like crazy, these games just don't keep you busy for long.  I mean, you can't really group outside of instances in most newer MMORPGs since even just a duo completely overwhelms solo idiot mode content designed for the least common denominator playing the weakest class in the game.

 

The companies - they shoot themselves.  They design these fast playing games.  The spend YEARS making single player content players can obliterate in no time.  And they can't possibly crank out more content post release fast enough to keep players busy.  So once that couple of months of content is exhausted and there's nothing to do, those million+ box sales turn into a MUCH smaller number of people willing to stick around and hope you somehow deliver content.  Then your game is F2P, sells out its soul, and is a joke, since F2P MMORPGs are trash.

 

All MMORPGs rely on progression and the endless gear carrot to keep players around and willing to pay a sub, but when your game is stupid easy and plays stupid fast, players blast thru it way faster than you can ever keep up with as a developer.  It's BAD design.

 

The older MMORPGs had a much slower pace.  It took longer to accomplish stuff.  Even leveling took months instead of days.  Devs had way more time to put content out at a sustainable pace.  Most of those games, like EQ, didn't even do content patches - no need, you'd get your yearly xpac and be set for the next year.  That kind of thing could never work for the fast food style MMORPGs.

 

The solution to me isn't to try to innovate new ways for soloists to tug it faster - it's to return the the genre's core - bring back challenge, bring back heavy grouping, and extend the life of the games.  Surely game designers are smart enough to come up with some ways to tweak the ancient formulas and innovate more ways to do grouping all the time with minimal solo.

 

This is why games like FFXIV and soon to be EQN are such profound disappointments to me.  FFXI was one of the originals and FFXIV is a joke compared to it.  EQ is the mack grand daddy of the genre, and EQN is going to incorporate some potentially amazing ideas like procedurally generated content (potentially infinite "replay" value) yet EQN will amost certainly be all about solo and a slap in the face of its namesake.

 

Designers need to change their approach.  Instead of using WoW as the basis for your game design and moving forward from there into single player gaming, go back to EQ and older MMORPGs and use THEM as your starting point for design.  Start with the brutality of an untamed wild, the challenge of simply leveling, the even bigger challenge of dungeons/dungeon zones, and mandatory grouping just to survive and level - and tweak from there.

 

There never was that many big MMORPGs back in the day, just a handful of the best that we remember.  There's lots of room to tweak from THAT point in MMORPG history.  Clearly, the many variations on solo idiot mode mostly yielded the same result - play fast, play dumb, players buy in, players bail out early, game goes F2P = fail.

 

IMO, a big problem is that instead of going ALL the way back to the still viable roots and improving on what was, too many designers are just continuing the evoloution of the solo side of the genre - and that side is the DARK side - it's crap - it's single player gaming, not MMORPG.

 

Ultimately if casuals don't have the time to play, or if the games are too hard core for some people to handle, that's ok.  The MMORPG genre never needed such people to get started, and the gameplay was vastly superior back then even in its roughest possible forms, if some players have to be alientated for MMORPGs to be returned to glory, so be it.  I'm not sure why the MMORPG genre decided to be the genre to bend over backwards to try and fail to be the genre that caters to everyone, when most gaming genres stick to their cores.

 

So yeah, we're always waiting for the next big thing.  That's what happens when so-called MMORPGs take 3-5 years to make but are so poorly designed that they end up yielding 3-5 months of content and gameplay, if that.  3-5 years vs 3-5 months leaves a lot of time to wait for the next one.

 

I didn't even last that long with FFXIV - it's the first premium MMORPG I've ever bought and played where I didn't sub for a few months - there's no point - the game is clearly not worth a sub and you can either be done with it or close to it within the free time.  I don't have the numbers but I'd bet that I've subbed for shorter and shorter periods to every MMORPG I've played since WoW.  I lasted 6-7 months in Rift (granted, only left it to play SWTOR, not because I'd had enough).  Lasted 3-4 months in SWTOR and GW2.  Maybe 2 months with TSW.  Maybe 1 month total including phase 4 with FFXIV.  The more solo oriented MMORPGs get, the less they are worth playing for any length of time.  All of these games suffer from way too much solo idiot mode, way too little grouping, way too little endgame, no way for devs to crank out content fast enough (GW2 is different, but it's not really attempting to be an MMORPG, it's a blatant single player/pure solo game).

 

I suppose some damned dev will one up this and come out with an MMORPG you can finish in 2 weeks, because MMORPG devs just seem to not get it.  MMORPGs are not single player games and as long as you design them that way, they will exist that way.  Singple player games aren't worth a sub and the only thing special about an MMORPG vs a single player game at this point is that one is online full time, costs a ton more to make, generally has lower quality content than a dedicated single player RPG, and has a lot of people playing it that you'd rather not ever have to encounter.

Excellent post, sir. One of the best i've read for years. If only designers and investors would realise this also.

Great post, couldn't agree more. I'm playing FFXIV now and enjoying it for the most part but it's a far cry from FFXI in every aspect.

    Wonderful post Voqar! I've felt this way for years now and know there are plenty of other similarly situated players out there. Currently my entire social circle isn't playing a mmorpg and we all started with either UO or EQ in the late 90's, however, in all honesty, I believe you might want to go a step further and stop supporting these doomed to fail games financially. That is, don't buy into the type of mmorpg that seems to get perpetually worse. It's the only clear message that registers with higher ups in the gaming industry these days. 

Originally posted by Fusion
So, you'll occasionally have to kill an orc or few spiders to get that mahogany you want :D

   Hopefully the devs make it more interesting to procure some of these materials such as the aforementioned mahogany. Something along the lines of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14D5wKSVlXg would be great.

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