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All Posts by GrayGhost79

All Posts by GrayGhost79

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Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Teala

That's why this kind of stuff is rotten.   Because that means that a company like Zenimax can hold a person  as their little puppet until hell freezes over and claim that whatever a person did outside the company(even after they have left a company) can still be claimed as something a person did while at the company.     The guy said plainly that he didn't use any code he wrote for Zenimax on the Oculus Rift.    If it is about the design...did Zenimax have a patent on it all ready - one that is like the Oculus?  I don't think so...so they have squat to stand on.

This is just showing how much of a money grubbing company Zenimax is.   Period.

He made the prototype while working at Zenimax as well as wrote some of the code again working at Zenimax. He later joined Oculus. Keep in mind he started working on VR gear back in 2011 again, while working at Zenimax. With most companies, especially hardware and software companies there is a standard agreement if nothing else that states what you create while at said company even off the clock is property of said company. You know ahead of time, if you don't agree with that then don't sign anything. You can't back out later or try and cheat the system. 

Carmack knows he messed up, which is why he was attempting to offer equity to Zenimax. 

Sorry Grayghost, but i totally disagree, what he does while he is at work 8 - 5 or whatever hours he worked for them, is one thing, whatever he does in his spare time is his own, nothing to do with Zenimax. But Zenimax are only digging themselves a deeper hole now, and if their finances are in such a mess they have to resort to tactics like this, then personally i'll be happy to see the company fold, we don't need those types of games companies.

Time for the guys at Zenimax to start polishing their CV's if you ask me

You agreeing or disagreeing is irrelevant. No one is forced to sign anything. When you choose to sign something, you have to deal with the consequences. I have no idea what the rest of your post has to do with anything considering this has been an ongoing thing for a few years now. 

Secondly... does everyone here realize that Zenimax Media is the one doing this and not Zenimax Online Studios (Developers of TESO). Zenimax Online Studios is just a subsidy just like Bethesda is. When you say we don't need game companies like Bethesda, id software, and etc. because the parent company is upholding signed agreements I really get confused. 

He had a choice to retain all rights to everything he did by simply turning down the job and refusing to sign anything. Though, that may have reduced his ability to make the contributions to the Rift Oculus that he has. 

 

Though I think your post is derived more from your distaste with ESO than anything. For the record I too dislike ESO and saw it's short comings back in the conceptual stages and was further convinced of it's short comings during the alpha and decided to pass on the game entirely. That however has not clouded my judgement. 

Originally posted by Teala

That's why this kind of stuff is rotten.   Because that means that a company like Zenimax can hold a person  as their little puppet until hell freezes over and claim that whatever a person did outside the company(even after they have left a company) can still be claimed as something a person did while at the company.     The guy said plainly that he didn't use any code he wrote for Zenimax on the Oculus Rift.    If it is about the design...did Zenimax have a patent on it all ready - one that is like the Oculus?  I don't think so...so they have squat to stand on.

This is just showing how much of a money grubbing company Zenimax is.   Period.

He made the prototype while working at Zenimax as well as wrote some of the code again working at Zenimax. He later joined Oculus. Keep in mind he started working on VR gear back in 2011 again, while working at Zenimax. With most companies, especially hardware and software companies there is a standard agreement if nothing else that states what you create while at said company even off the clock is property of said company. You know ahead of time, if you don't agree with that then don't sign anything. You can't back out later or try and cheat the system. 

Carmack knows he messed up, which is why he was attempting to offer equity to Zenimax. 

After digging around it looks like this is clearly in favor of Zenimax. 

"Up until November 2013 Carmack was still employed by ZeniMax as a programmer, despite having taken the position of Oculus CTO in August 2013."

"Carmack wasn't always so optimistic. After connecting with Oculus Rift creator Palmer Luckey on a 3D messaging forum, Luckey sent Carmack a prototype.

"Carmack hot-glued a tracking sensor and duct-taped a ski goggle strap onto the prototype and tweaked a version of Doom 3 so that it played on the headset. Since demonstrating that in private sessions at the 2012 Electronic Entertainment Expo in L.A, Carmack has improved the image quality and head tracking."

 

While he was working at Zenimax he was working on the prototype for Oculus among other things. He worked on software for Oculus as well, while still employeed by Zenimax he took a position at Oculus. It's pretty cut and dry, he developed software and technology while working for Zenimax that he used to further the Rift Oculus. Zenimax clearly has a case and it is a pretty cut and dry one at that. 

"John's early experiments with the Rift put Oculus on the map and helped create an amazing amount of momentum around virtual reality," Luckey, 21, said when Carmack joined the company.

The yellow is referring to work he did while employeed by Zenimax... 

 

Sorry guys and gals, it is what it is. Follow the time lines, look at the information available and it's pretty easy to see. 

 

As far as money grabs go... I think a company like facebook that had no hand in the creation or helped with even the idea phase of things trying to cash in is a money grab. A company attempting to get compensated for work one of it's employees did while on their payroll is a far cry from what I would consider a money grab. 

Originally posted by CazNeerg
Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Microtransactions reduce the amount of revenue you will see in an  MMO. 

Look back at games like UO, FFXI, and others that are long running. It took time to obtain items and to reach various milestones. Later on after subscriptions declined they began offering items to purchase to generate additional revenue. 

When you take a new game and start offering items for purchase it usually negates the time needed to obtain a similar or the same item in game. Experience increases, armor, weapons, and mounts gained outside of gameplay negates the need to obtain these items in game and speeds a player towards end game and thus ending their desire to subscribe until new content is released. They may or may not return at that point. 

I don't completely admonish cash shops, but there is a time and place for them and at launch is not the it. 

The longer it takes to get things in a game, the longer people play. When they run out of things to obtain (Items, skills, abilities, levels, housing, deco, etc.) they leave. When you devalue these items by making it available on a shop you also diminish the desire to obtain items in game. 

Probably not very coherent considering I'm not completely sober at the moment and it is around 1am-ish, but hopefully you get the jist of what I'm saying. 

The old MMO's in which is took time to obtain things were able to keep decent subscriber numbers for quite some time. Newer MMO's that launch with these cash shop offerings seem to go free to play fairly quickly. Maybe there isn't a correlation and I'm way off base, but I do know I personally felt a lot of pride and gladly paid each and every month in games where it took time to get things done and to obtain items( UO over 10 years, FFXI over 5 years), I typically fizzle out on these new MMO's after about 3 months. 

3 Months at 14.99 a pop + maybe 50 to 60 bucks on the cash shop 

vs. 

10+ years at 9.99 a month and 5 years at 12.99 + my mules bringing it to 14.99 a month. 

In 2004 this would have been a compelling argument.  When there were very few games to play, and all of them required a sub, people weren't nearly as likely to game hop, because doing so would mean paying the same amount of money for a less developed character roster and starting over at building social connections.  But fast forward to 2014, and the barriers to entry are so low in most games that people will shop around, and if they see more value in game B than game A, they will probably switch.  As a purely practical matter, games which offer cash shops offer more value than games which don't.  It may not be value that every customer cares about, but it is still value, and this is a numbers game.  Look at TOR; they made more money just on their cash shop in 2013 that any game other than WoW made from subscriptions.  They have to design revenue models for the way people actually behave in these games now, not for the way the (much smaller) audience behaved ten years ago.  And who knows, even back then the games might have made more money with sub + cash shop, nobody tried so the question is academic.

EA got somewhere around 2k from me for UO

EA got around $120 from me with TOR. TOR's a revolving door. Sure, marketing has probably been pretty good at getting people to stop by for a month or 3 and dropping a bit in the cash shop but it certainly isn't keeping them. With the money they've had to keep dumping into marketing and advertising to keep that revolving door going how worth it could it be? 

In any case... in the year 2013 and 2014, WoW still exists and still has far greater revenue than TOR and its a sub based game that has never relied on a true cash shop. So the epitome of your microtransaction setup still pales in comparison to a sub based game from about a decade ago... I think my point might still be relevant in 2014 lol. 

Originally posted by Superman0X
Originally posted by AzurePrower
Originally posted by Superman0X

Technically speaking, I am not sure that they are actually doing microtransactions. If you pay X for an item, that is just a direct sale. It does not matter if the purchase is in game, online, or in a store.

 

For this to be a microtransaction, there needs to be two transactions. One for the exchange of money, the second for the exchange of goods. The reason that many games use virtual currency, is because they only pay the fee for the transaction once, and then can sell multiple items.

P.S. Why all the F2P bashing... on a P2P Game.

 

...Do you even know what a microtransaction is?

Why yes, yes I do. I am actually much more familiar than most. A microtransacion is small (secondary) transaction, which is used as part of a larger (primary) transaction. When you buy a virtual currency, you are doing the primary transaction. When you spend it, you are doing the secondary (micro) transaction.

 

The original concept was that these secondary transactions could be very small, even less than a cent. The reason why two transactions were needed, is that the processing fee for such a small transaction would be more than the actual transaction.

Most consider a microtransaction to be a financial transaction involving a very small sum of money and usually one that occurs online. 

Micro - extremely small.

 

Originally posted by CazNeerg

Yesterday's announcement of the palomino horse offering in ESO has stirred up anti-microtransaction sentiments again, but just like every other time, all of the focus seems to be on why players shouldn't like it.  But if we're being practical, it's not players who decide revenue models, it's companies.  If people ever want to see something different, the relevant topic is why companies should want to not offer microtransactions in a subscription based game.  

Because let's face it, decisions ultimately aren't made by players or by the game's actual developers, they are made by the business people who control the developer's purse strings. In order to get gaming companies not to move in the direction of subscription + microtransaction instead of subscription only, somebody is going to have to come up with compelling arguments for how refusing to offer microtransactions will result in higher profits.  If nobody can come up with such arguments, companies have not only the "right" but the fiscal duty to offer microtransactions.

Microtransactions reduce the amount of revenue you will see in an  MMO. 

Look back at games like UO, FFXI, and others that are long running. It took time to obtain items and to reach various milestones. Later on after subscriptions declined they began offering items to purchase to generate additional revenue. 

When you take a new game and start offering items for purchase it usually negates the time needed to obtain a similar or the same item in game. Experience increases, armor, weapons, and mounts gained outside of gameplay negates the need to obtain these items in game and speeds a player towards end game and thus ending their desire to subscribe until new content is released. They may or may not return at that point. 

I don't completely admonish cash shops, but there is a time and place for them and at launch is not the it. 

The longer it takes to get things in a game, the longer people play. When they run out of things to obtain (Items, skills, abilities, levels, housing, deco, etc.) they leave. When you devalue these items by making it available on a shop you also diminish the desire to obtain items in game. 

Probably not very coherent considering I'm not completely sober at the moment and it is around 1am-ish, but hopefully you get the jist of what I'm saying. 

The old MMO's in which is took time to obtain things were able to keep decent subscriber numbers for quite some time. Newer MMO's that launch with these cash shop offerings seem to go free to play fairly quickly. Maybe there isn't a correlation and I'm way off base, but I do know I personally felt a lot of pride and gladly paid each and every month in games where it took time to get things done and to obtain items( UO over 10 years, FFXI over 5 years), I typically fizzle out on these new MMO's after about 3 months. 

3 Months at 14.99 a pop + maybe 50 to 60 bucks on the cash shop 

vs. 

10+ years at 9.99 a month and 5 years at 12.99 + my mules bringing it to 14.99 a month. 

 

Others have already said it but I agree. 

1) The game is very clunky and unpolished

2) It really isn't that different from other MMO's. The core is the same quest hub centric game with a clunky tab targeting centric combat system that every other MMO is. There really are MMO's that are different out there but this isn't one of them. 

 

Originally posted by neobahamut20

First, we must define what a success is. In this case success is attaining or surpassing the goals set by developers and the expectations for the game. The goals are set by the developper, the expectations come from the fans. Final Fantasy fans don't expect a playable game, they expect a new adventure, a ground-breaking innovative game and new game mechanics. Why? Because in the past, that is what Final Fantasy has been all about.

 

The goals, we can only speculate on, but the seem to be along the line of "people play X so lets do X or something similar to that, as long as we make money". While it is normal for a company to want to make money, it is also when you focus on making money instead of meeting expectations that you lose money. When you do not meet a customer's expectations, few customers will stay and hope you improve. Players in this day and age want much more than "a playable game".

 

So what does this game offer? Does it offer groundbreaking, new, innovative combat? No. Does it offer a new, groundbreaking, innovative story? At the moment, it seems not. Does it offer new, groundbreaking, innovative dungeons, reasons for grouping, reasons to interact? No. Does it offer new classes? No. New controls? No. So what does this game offer? Nothing new, just the old content all MMO players looking for a new game do not want. So right off the bat, they simply step back and understand that the game isn't meant for them.  Unless, of course, a playstation release is considered new, then there is something, but it is hard to imagine how that will draw enough attention to attract people.

 

So who is the target audience? It seems it is new players, newcomers to the MMO world. Veterans are being forced through boring design principles from the beginning. MMOs are just like stores. If a customer walks into a store and sees nothing of interest within 5 minutes, you most likely lost him for a very, very long time if not forever. MMOs get more than 5 minutes though, they get 2 hours to impress. If they can't, he's gone. Likewise, if he gets bored within the first week, he's gone. I guess such a display of ignorance is the price to pay when you let someone who is not an analyst lead production.

 

So the big question really is, are there enough newcomers to sustain a game long enough for it to stay afloat especially after the 3rd month exodus (that happens even in successful games, but it seems like an interesting phenomenon - Every 3rd month of a new game is where players seem to give up on it the most)? The last game that lacked innovation, which was touted as the next big thing, was SW:TOR. It barely made it thanks to going F2P and it is still very far from a success, it is only playable.

 

Given that nostalgic Final Fantasy fans will still give the game a try, it still seems like FF11 is the better game of the two. There is no reason for a max level player from FF11 to switch over to FF14 at this point in time. For this reason and those listed above, this game will never be a success, but, with some luck, it might be able to stay afloat. Best of luck to them, but for me, its time to move on and wait for something else as this will never meet my expectations.

This game is directed at Final Fantasy fans, not MMO gamers. With that said yes, it does offer innovations and such over FFXI and many changes are implemented that players have asked for. 

As someone still playing FFXI I can tell you that most I know from several linkshells have been playing in the beta and have already informed their respective LS's that they are moving to FFXIV when it launches. Many LS's are even moving the entire LS over to the new game while leaving the XI one open for the few that do not wish to migrate to the new game. 

 

No FFXIV isn't going to be for everyone and it won't be for every FFXI fan or Final Fantasy fan but... they have made a lot of changes and such that were requested by their target audience and most that are in the beta (In XI at least) seem to be happy with the new game and are already making plans for their move. 

 

I have no idea what you are basing your opinions on but I think XIV will do well and will be considered a success this time around. Overall feedback seems to be good from those in the beta, the videos are looking good, the level of communication, etc. As of right now things are looking good. 

 

You seem to be confusing FFXIV with a standard MMO which would make your above opinions understandable. The problem here is that FFXIV is offering a fairly different type of game and experience than your standard MMO and it appeals to a very specific playerbase just as FFXI did. It definitely won't be setting any records but it should definitely do very well in its niche. 

Originally posted by ElderRat
I don't think people are paid to post. However, when I see rabidly pro-game posts by someone who has just registered and has only 1 or 2 posts, I do wonder.

Some actually are. Microsoft actually has hired a few firms that do this kind of thing in the wake of the Xbox One fiasco and have been outed for doing so. Its not an uncommon practice by any means though. Sony, EA, even Funcom as well as others have done the same and will continue to do so. 

 

 

This Gen won't be sold at a loss. The x86 setup they are going with is a great deal cheaper than the custom setup of the PS3 of Xbox 360. They are basically using slightly modified PC components so they will be making a profit even if they do sale the systems at a loss for w/e reason initially they will become profitable fairly quickly. 

 

 

The numbers are actually pretty good. With how bad 1.0 was it actually is a pretty good sign for XIV. I mean, lets be honest XIV 1.0 was just awful and no one can say otherwise. The game even tanked in Japan, and that should be the one place an FF game has a chance lol. 

With so many changes they've managed to peak the interest and that is a hard thing to do after a failed launch. I have even been resold on the game and plan on getting it for PC and PS4 (Once it launches) and I like most thought 1.0 was just awful. 

 

So all I can say really is good job SE, you've managed to do what few MMO's have. Managing to get people interested in a game after such an awful launch is note worthy in itself. 

Originally posted by Toferio
Great, entitled teens just ruined a cool cloud feature and digital future just so they can continue stuffing money into Gamestops pockets instead of supporting devs. Fuck second hand and fuck "gamers". 

You made the mistake a few others have. It takes money out of publisher hands, not developers. Keep in mind that there are no games on the Xbox One that do not have a Publisher :) lol... Microsoft is the one taking money out of the developers pockets.

Originally posted by Milander
Originally posted by damond5031
The Ps4 is 100 dollars cheaper. The ps4 is more powerful. I don't have to pay a fee to access online services on the Ps4. Sony didn't try to sell me a crappy drm laden, always on ,always watching box that plays really expensive rental games. I have owned both previous Xbox consoles and never even considered buying a ps3.  Due to Microsoft greed and lack of concern about what the players wanted I will now be giving my business to Sony. Don't take Microsoft's reversal on drm policies as a sign that they have mended their ways and now care about the players, they don't give a damn about the players. They saw the bottom line on a downward trajectory and so changed course.

Sorry have to call you right there....You DO have to pay for online services on the PS4...unlike before you now NEED a PSN+ account to play any online games with the ps4 (no word if that will extend to the PS3) No PS4 doesnt try to sell you DRM, they just include it when you log in :) Sure, Microsoft cares nothing about the people...The people saw something they didnt like, they complained, microsoft reversed some. Sure that might be just because they want your money, but cant fault them for that..they are a business, and those things are made to make money.

 

What I never really understood, was most if not all of my console playing is done online though XBL. Suddenly people are up in arms because now they have to do a 'once a day check'. This shouldn't be a problem for the 'hardcore gamer' Ofcourse if you miss the 24 hour window then what? You cant play the games on the HD until you connect again. OMG it's the end of the world!!! People somehow got the idea in their head that "OMG if I don't log in every day, they are going to take my games away from me forever!!!!" People need to stop the knee-jerk reactions and research before they flip out.

Now, if you want to shoot down anything I've said, please include links with words from official Microsoft posts, not 2nd -5th hand info someone heard while in the bathroom at E3.

 

When someone is referencing online services they are specifically referring to things like Netflix which you need Xbl Gold for but can use on the PS4 with no service fees from PS4. 

Microsoft cared that it was getting outsold by a large margin and had to switch gears. They didn't care that tons of gamers disliked what they were doing. 

While your gaming may mostly be done through XBL many people use these consoles as well, consoles for single player games. 

As far as the knee jerk reactions, could you point them out because from what I saw is that many brought up very valid points on why they saw these things as bad. 

You want links? Do the research yourself like I did, especially since you just tried to claim everyone that was unhappy didn't do any research and just started wigging out lol. 

Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Xzen
when there is so little interest in it.

Says who? As I have seen the Complete opposite.

The XBOX360 + Kinect packages were actually one of the better selling combo packs.

Sony was just very late With the Move camera on PS3 and the only real interesting games they have, are the Book of Spells series. Which are actually really fun games for the kids.

It´s a fairly New Technology for Consoles, so sadly we haven´t seen too many quality games yet, but still there are some really good Kinect games on XBOX360 that are blast to play. Especially for families with kids. Or just People that throw home parties.

So maybe for late teenagers the Kinect and Move might not be as hot and blowing everyone to hell in FPS games.

The late teenager age Group is no longer the primary target for Console manufacturers.

Especially With the Nintendo Wii, the consoles have gained a more dominant position in the Family domain.

 

And also, don´t just dish out the Kinect camera.... as it´s going to play an important role With the upcoming "Illumi room" Tech Microsoft is working on.

lol, the Illumiroom has already had less appeal than the Kinect. Its a neat gimmick but one that will be distracting and irritating in the long run. That seems to be the buzz about it anyway and I share the opinion. 

 

A VR helmet or visor would be a better investment and even that is really a gimmick that hasn't caught on. 

Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Sulaa
Mandatory Kinect is still there.  Nuff said.

And you think you don´t need the PS Move camera to make "full" use of the console?

Come on now! Who is kididng who!  It´s nothing but a marketing ploy by Sony to undercut the XBOX One.

At least Microsoft is honest and just sell the XBOX One + Kinect as a single package.

If you can wait a few months.... prices will come Down by a 100 bucks. Always has, always will.

I have the XBOX 360 and I will wait at least a couple months after XBOX One launch before buying one.

Most upcoming PS4/XB1 games won´t release before Q2 2014 anyway.

There is a difference between needing a PS move camera to make "full" use of the console vs. a mandatory kinect. I can play at least most games without the camera on the PS4. I can't play any games without the Kinect. Difference is pretty clear. 

Even with the PS Move camera the PS4 comes out cheaper by about $50. 

You are correct, prices will come down on both consoles... Always has and always will. I'm not sure how that makes the Xbox One cheaper though considering both consoles will see a price drop. 

Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Vannor
I'm still getting a PS4.. they only did this because they had no choice. This wasn't because they wanted what was best for the gamers, this has happened because they realised they were digging their own grave.

Sorry to burst Your bubble, but Sony was actually the one that started it all! With DRM and no second hand sale.

There was a big uproar and backlash in the media about it in the months towards the PS4 actual announcement and Sony kept silent and didn´t say anything about it.

Then Microsoft announced the XBOX One, came With 1 time per day online and secondhand game sell restrictions, causing anger and generating a backlash.

And lo and behold.... suddenly Sony jumped on the "Microsoft is Evil" bandwagon, dishing their initial plans, saying you can always play offline, no secondhand sale restrictions on PS4, etc.

And ofcourse.... now Microsoft had no Choice but to abandon those plans as well.

This to the utmost displeasure of game giants like EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc who are actually the ones behind this all who tried to push the Console manufacturers to come up with all this stuff to stop pirating, second hand sales, etc.

Sony made the announcement they weren't adding the DRM almost right after filing the patent. The backlash was long before E3 and Sony cleared things up long before Microsoft announced its DRM. Just wanted to clear that up. They didn't jump on the bandwagon, they were already put there when fans were in an uproar over them simply filing the patent lol. 

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

I can see why though. While Xbox One has the top spot on Amazon it doesn't mean a great deal when the PS4 has the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 8th while the PS4 controller holds the 10th spot. 

But don't worry, things should pick up now that they dropped the DRM on the Xbox One :) 

 

Here's a Link for you... 

 

http://www.dailygame.net/features/ps4-pre-orders-at-amazon-gamestop-outselling-xbox-one-two-to-one

The PS4 is outselling Xbox One by at least a 2 to 1 margin on Amazon and at Gamestop lol... 

 

It also doesn't help that on Amazon's Facebook page they had a poll showing 95% of those that contributed planned on picking up a PS4. Many may be picking up both even if its eventually but no matter where you look the PS4 is the clear favorite. 

If it helps ease things a bit the sample size for the poll was pretty small. 

the final numbers read 38984 votes in favor of the PlayStation 4 with only 2162 votes in favor of the Xbox One.

Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Cod_Eye
MS will screw xbox1 owners another way.   Backing down on DRM doesn't cut it, they will just add another feature to make it difficult to sell and buy second hand games. Its all about damage limitation ensuring they get better sales over Sony, not about listening to consumers, once they sold their units they got you.
Originally posted by Althewiseguy
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by Mothanos

Microsoft will digg for new ways to screw their customers.
Dont think for a second this company can be trusted.

Sony all the way.

 

Did you just say Sony can be trusted?   ...LOL

Seriously, you guys got some serious issues. Even when Microsoft gives you what you want, you give them no credit at all. I guess haters gunna hate.

Well there is a lot to hate. The fact that Microsoft even thought their initial pitch of the Xbox 1 was acceptable in any way. Their backtrack was just to try and save their new console from losing out to the competition. If they can get it THAT wrong once. They can do so again. And judging their history they likely will. 

 

Sony started it, and the patent was going to be just tie the game to your PSN account, and not be able to trade games in at all or share with friends, and Xbox ONE policy was going to be better than PS4, but they just backed out after seeing the lynching MS was getting - MS: We have DRM, Fans: Boo!, Sony: We support used games, Fans: Sony rules, MS sucks.

I guess Sonys plan to get more sales worked.

MS will not bother with this again, like double jeopardy, but Sony might do it still, and they will not get as much anger either

Plus Sony have something else nice in the works too

Being a Xbox owner since the original Xbox, I have never been screwed by MS at all, and they always do the right thing in the end, Sony on the other hand have screwed the Playstation owners:

  • Updating PSP to remove homebrew possibilities
  • EU not getting HDDs for PS2s
  • Updating PS3s to remove Linux functionaility after approving it inititially making people who bought the machine just for that a waste of money.
  • Sonys behaviour went so far that a group called Anonymous went up against Sony, and the network was hacked in 2011 compromising peoples accounts and payment details
MS makes mistakes but always corrects them (like here) or suffers a loss from it, like RROD replacing/repairing consoles free of charge past warranty. Sony do not do these things as they do not have the capital to do so, all they do is bow before you in great shame.

Sorry, Sony has the capital they just didn't implement these things. One company is pretty intelligent while the other isn't. 

Sony has always had the better hardware and made the better deals. It's why even releasing a year after Xbox 360 and being higher priced that still outsold the 360 in the long run. 

Microsoft likes to think customers will just take it. Win8 sells have been awful. Xbox 360 couldn't even beat the PS3 with all the advantages it had in the beginning. If they listened to their target audience from the start they could avoid a lot of the fallout that they continue to bring on themselves. 

I don't think Sony is "For the gamer" but they do have good business sense. They know pissed off gamers aren't likely to open their wallet for them, and not only that but news travels fast when it comes to games and nothing stays secret for very long. 

 

As far as your Anonymous comments, with the Xbox One Microsoft went far beyond everything Sony has done across all of its products. 

The Privacy issues, the violation of consumer rights, and so much more have painted a great big bullseye on Microsofts back. What Sony did was considered minor by most and many did not support Anonymous, how many would side with Microsoft should Anonymous attack the Xbox Live servers over issues with the Xbox One especially if the DRM policy hadn't changed?

Sony have the capitol to do whatever but not enough to go in to a loss to fix their mistakes, which MS have done. Did Sony repair consoles when the PS3 got the yellow light? MS did with Xboxs RROD. They also sold the original Xbox at a loss, and gave out a free power cord with breaker switch. Now they have to undo all their work with xbox ONE. I doubt Sony would have undone the patent if they announced their plans for blocking used games before MS, because it would have been too much work and finance to undo it all

Sony did not undo any of the PSP or PS3 updates.

Win 8 has nothing to do with consoles, MS are risky when it comes to PCs and OS, but consoles, they always end up doing the right thing in the end, and the Xbox 360 was the main console that devs wrote for, as there are hardly any games that took advantage of the PS3s better hardware, as the devs just ported the Xbox 360 version. PS3 has only been shining the last year or so, as MS look to Xbox ONE, the first six years was Xbox 360 which shined the most.

PS3 > PS4 for several more years too, like the PS2 carried on better than PS3 for a while, as the PS4 had no exclusives worth worrying about yet - PS4 interested me with 0 games, Xbox ONE interested with 9 plus the multiplatform ones. The reason being is because MS has more money and able to acquire more exclusives. Sony can not afford it

The only thing MS can be accused of is hogging the market, but I am not going to get a PS4 so it just looks pretty. The PS3 for me was mostly good for Blu Ray, I have hardly played any games on it at all. Considering I have the PS3 for that still, and probably the Xbox ONE, there will be little to no reason to get PS4, and I might even sell the PS3 to make room for Xbox ONE.

MS didn't fix the RROD, they removed the indicator the issue persisted for many they just didn't see the red ring lol. 

 

In any case, if you want to go for an Xbox One then be my guest but don't confuse preference or personal feelings with fact. 

The fact of the matter is that Sony has always come out on top in the console wars against Microsoft (Nintendo has been the overall winner but the Wii U doesn't look like it will continue that trend). 

Without even announcing all of their Exclusives Sony has more. Yes, thats right Sony hasn't even made all of their announcements yet. More announcements are coming from the upcoming Sony event :) (Keep in mind this is in regards to consoles). 

You can say all you want that the PS3 > PS4 but that has yet to be decided just as this recent move for the Xbox One will be enough to pull it out of the fire is undecided. 

The above are simply facts. 

 

MS may have more money but they do not have more exclusives lol... as I said the PS4 has more announced exclusives than the Xbox One as is and they haven't even finished with their reveals. Expect more in August lol... 

 

The only market MS is hogging is the OS market. 

I'm sorry, I do appreciate the laughs but... unless you want to discuss the facts of the matter I'm out. I'm not going to debate someones opinion especially when they seem to want to back it up with false statements. 

Originally posted by TheMaahes
Originally posted by Althewiseguy

 

Too little too late. If they can switch their policies at a whim once they can do it again. Damage is done. 

 

I think this is the point people are missing. Even though Microsoft now reversed its policies now what prevents them from doing so after it launches once they've earned their profit?

Nothing lol, because if its this easy to reverse then it would be just as easy to reinstate after they have moved enough units they don't have to worry about backlash. 

 

Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Cod_Eye
MS will screw xbox1 owners another way.   Backing down on DRM doesn't cut it, they will just add another feature to make it difficult to sell and buy second hand games. Its all about damage limitation ensuring they get better sales over Sony, not about listening to consumers, once they sold their units they got you.
Originally posted by Althewiseguy
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by Mothanos

Microsoft will digg for new ways to screw their customers.
Dont think for a second this company can be trusted.

Sony all the way.

 

Did you just say Sony can be trusted?   ...LOL

Seriously, you guys got some serious issues. Even when Microsoft gives you what you want, you give them no credit at all. I guess haters gunna hate.

Well there is a lot to hate. The fact that Microsoft even thought their initial pitch of the Xbox 1 was acceptable in any way. Their backtrack was just to try and save their new console from losing out to the competition. If they can get it THAT wrong once. They can do so again. And judging their history they likely will. 

 

Sony started it, and the patent was going to be just tie the game to your PSN account, and not be able to trade games in at all or share with friends, and Xbox ONE policy was going to be better than PS4, but they just backed out after seeing the lynching MS was getting - MS: We have DRM, Fans: Boo!, Sony: We support used games, Fans: Sony rules, MS sucks.

I guess Sonys plan to get more sales worked.

MS will not bother with this again, like double jeopardy, but Sony might do it still, and they will not get as much anger either

Plus Sony have something else nice in the works too

Being a Xbox owner since the original Xbox, I have never been screwed by MS at all, and they always do the right thing in the end, Sony on the other hand have screwed the Playstation owners:

  • Updating PSP to remove homebrew possibilities
  • EU not getting HDDs for PS2s
  • Updating PS3s to remove Linux functionaility after approving it inititially making people who bought the machine just for that a waste of money.
  • Sonys behaviour went so far that a group called Anonymous went up against Sony, and the network was hacked in 2011 compromising peoples accounts and payment details
MS makes mistakes but always corrects them (like here) or suffers a loss from it, like RROD replacing/repairing consoles free of charge past warranty. Sony do not do these things as they do not have the capital to do so, all they do is bow before you in great shame.

Sorry, Sony has the capital they just didn't implement these things. One company is pretty intelligent while the other isn't. 

Sony has always had the better hardware and made the better deals. It's why even releasing a year after Xbox 360 and being higher priced that still outsold the 360 in the long run. 

Microsoft likes to think customers will just take it. Win8 sells have been awful. Xbox 360 couldn't even beat the PS3 with all the advantages it had in the beginning. If they listened to their target audience from the start they could avoid a lot of the fallout that they continue to bring on themselves. 

I don't think Sony is "For the gamer" but they do have good business sense. They know pissed off gamers aren't likely to open their wallet for them, and not only that but news travels fast when it comes to games and nothing stays secret for very long. 

 

As far as your Anonymous comments, with the Xbox One Microsoft went far beyond everything Sony has done across all of its products. 

The Privacy issues, the violation of consumer rights, and so much more have painted a great big bullseye on Microsofts back. What Sony did was considered minor by most and many did not support Anonymous, how many would side with Microsoft should Anonymous attack the Xbox Live servers over issues with the Xbox One especially if the DRM policy hadn't changed?

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